A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: JF on September 14, 2011, 03:35:36 PM
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I know it has already been discussed here, but it's still a mystery to me :-\:
have you ever wonder why the Alchemy video contains no close-up of Tommy Mandel ?
He's not seen in the bar/pool/saturday-night-the-movies intro, and the only time we can see him a little bit (and back), is during the intro of solid rock.
No other close-up during all the show, and last but not least, he's no credited in the end credits ! :o
As far as I know, Mandel was a band member during LOG tour, so why all other members are seen, and not him ?
Do you know if it is due to contracts issues ?
Even Joop de Koorte is credited........ ::)
at first it was said that he was not seen because he was behind a curtain.
Sometimes, on Terry Williams close-ups, you can see a guy, besides him, banging on some drums or keyboards (?) :o
On LOG bootlegs, you can hear Mark introduce Tommy mandel, but not Joop de Koorte. ::)
Then, a topic here revealed that Tommy Mandel was Joop de Koorte ! (according to this link :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Mandel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Mandel), well it was.....but it has been removed ???)
The mystery was solved ! :)
But when I submitted this idea on Ingo's forum, he told me that he doubt about this, and that "The 1985 tour book of the Brothers in Arms tour also lists Joop de Korte as drum technician and percussionist, there are even two pictures of him !" ???
So what's true ? ???
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Isn't Tommy Mandel the guy with frizzy hair, jigging around on the keyboards on Hal Lindes side of the stage? ??? I can see him clearly on SOS. :)
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Yes he is.
But there's no real close up of him, like with all other members, and why no credit him at the end ?
the two songs where he had a "lead" part were : Portobello belle (irish melody) and Twisting by the pool (dancing and jigging, as it's explained in the oldfield book, and you can here on some 82 bootlegs).
these 2 songs were left out the video and LP, coincidence ?
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http://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php/topic,1766.msg31649.html#msg31649
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Tommy Mandel was an additionnal musician and is credited on the lp/cds
Joop de Koorte is definitively a different person. He was not introduced live because contrary to Tommy he was not meant to be seen on stage and remainded hidden from public eyes with the exception of Live Aid gig were he was set between Terry Williams and Guy Fletcher
Spotted on the video @3:38, the guy with white cap, yellow t-shirt and red pants on the back between Jack Sonni and Sting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc8CoWcw8Tw
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OK,
so why Tommy Mandel isn't credited in video end credits ?
and why is he so "ignored" by the director ?
I agree with Superval, we can see him a little bit in the background, but all other members have many close-up on all songs.
well, maybe I want to find a mystery where there isn't one :-\
But I wouldn't be surprised if was due to contract issues, like Mark could have said to the director : "don't credit him, and if you can insert others close-up, it's fine" ::)
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Had a look at the DVD, the credit looks being the original 1984 one.
I would say that this omission is a mistake as he is credited on the channel 5 vhs cover
(and problably mandatory).
Beware big image :
http://www.gemm.com/images_listings/wb/_lwbrec_1267088286.jpg (http://www.gemm.com/images_listings/wb/_lwbrec_1267088286.jpg)
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Yes I know he is credited on all sleeves (CD, VHS, LP and so on), but I was of course talking about the credit at the end of the video :)
Of course it could only be a mistake, but....a litlle strange, as he doesn't seem to be filmed like the other members.
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[quote author=Jean-Fran
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And my theory is that the director had already spent too much time on others, while he should be focusing mainly, (only on MK).
Joke aside, I was a bit curious myself about that guy, but I never put so much effort to find out, as you do. But most of these things have so simple solutions and meaning that we just can't accept and look for something sinister. Maybe, they couldn't have an extra camera there, or more probable if you watch, the place he is standing is so poorly lit that the shots would be terrible. So when it came to editing they had to leave the footage out.
Then again you might wonder why they didn't lit this guy properly for the second show. Well, matters of light balance. They would mix very good together.
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Was just an addition and obiously did not play a big role in the band.
Add that Mark then started collaboration with another guy that worked quite well.
I like that comment ;D
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Didnt tommy play with bryan adams later on?
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Didnt tommy play with bryan adams later on?
Tommy was part of Bryan
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HAHA.. Is this Tommy Mandel? It might sound strange - but look at Marks back at 0:13.. There is someone helping out with the B3 there! :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBDQsxu_FsU&feature=related
Tobben
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HAHA.. Is this Tommy Mandel? It might sound strange - but look at Marks back at 0:13.. There is someone helping out with the B3 there! :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBDQsxu_FsU&feature=related
Tobben
Yes they hired Thing T. Thing for that tour.
But as it was considered that it was asking too much for so little part played, Ed and Mark decided to get next tour a low cost musician (even if they had to feed him) .
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That was Ron Eve
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Hi Everybody,
Thanks for discussing me. I'm not Joop, so I think it's best that I answer the question.
Yes, I played in Dire Straits - the Love Over Gold tour, which resulted in the Alchemy release.
The great Alan Clark was my 'supervisor' - he played the bulk of the keyboard parts, on Piano, Hammond B3 organ, Prophet 5 and Yamaha GS-1 synths.
I was hired by Mark to be Alan's '3rd and 4th hands' - every note I played, and many of the sounds, were worked out by Mark or Alan.
I mistakenly thought I was musically to be an equal member. To be fair, it WAS explained to me. I guess I hoped I could sell them on my creativity too.
Of course, playing with Terry, Mark, Alan, John, Hal, (and at times, Mel Collins and, yes, Joop on percussion) was a fabulous experience!
We travelled the world, my first time to the Far East, and I learned a lot of musical style and control. Maybe not quite enough control, but I did my best to play the parts and make the band even greater than before. The hard bits were the volume swells on the synths, bringing in Strings with just the right onset. That's done with ones ankle btw.
Anyway, it was weird being "in" a band, but being told every note to play, even by a genius like Mark. I think I didn't accept his total authority quite enough. So the next tour, he went with Guy, who he had maybe asked before me anyway, but was busy on another tour, or so I heard later on.
I went on to play more with Bryan Adams, John Waite, Clash, B-52's, Cyndi, Tina, Chrissie, BonJovi, Richie Sambora, and have fine memories of my Dire Straits days.
In fact, Alan's and Guy's visit to Wembley when we played the stadium (it's on DVD) with Bryan A was one of my finest memories, seeing them and being proud.
I too wondered why my name was left off the video. And why the camera cut away to artistic film of punters outside the venue during my only solo - the Romeo and Juliet string orchestration that I composed, instead of showing me or my hands. If it were one or the other, I'd say 'coincidence.' But the two together? Could Mark have done that on purpose? I haven't really talked to him since, so I'll probably never know!
Nonetheless, I love John, Terry, Hal, Joop, Mel and Alan (the latter two whom I toured with last summer in Dire Straits Legacy doing the old tunes, but differently, with Trevor Horn on bass and Phil Palmer on guitar. It made me appreciate once again how good Mark's music is, 40 years down the road.)
Mark and I shared a few cool jams during soundchecks. We were born the same year, so we grew up with similar musical influences, which somehow surprised him. It's too bad we couldn't have ended up friends. I'm friends with all my other famous former bosses, like Bryan Adams, and John Waite, David Johansen, Ian Hunter, Mick Ronson (before he tragically died 30 years ago) -- but life goes on, I've been lucky to play with a lot of gifted guitar players Mick Ronson, Keith Scott, Richie Sambora, Earl Slick, Bo Diddley, Steve Love (Stories) & David Spinozza. Their playing touched me even deeper than Mark's, as respected as he is. Music is great, and thank Heaven for Everything!
You can check out my work at https://tommymandel.wordpress.com
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Thanks for posting Tommy, that clears up a lot. Strange indeed that the shot cut away during your solo.
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welcome on here Tommy.
Interesting reading.
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many many many many thanks Tommy for this post
II have always wondered about this things for almost 35 years ! on 23th july, I will publish a chronicle mon my blog for the 40th anniversary of the Alchemy concert, and your post gives me serious infos
if you remember, can you confirm that stargazer was played on a tape while you came on stage, or did you play it live with Terry (and then the video shots were edited) ?
and among your solos, I love the one on Portobello Belle (a shame the song is not on Alchemy)
thanks again !
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Thank you Tommy. :thumbsup
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Hi Everybody,
Thanks for discussing me. I'm not Joop, so I think it's best that I answer the question.
Yes, I played in Dire Straits - the Love Over Gold tour, which resulted in the Alchemy release.
The great Alan Clark was my 'supervisor' - he played the bulk of the keyboard parts, on Piano, Hammond B3 organ, Prophet 5 and Yamaha GS-1 synths.
I was hired by Mark to be Alan's '3rd and 4th hands' - every note I played, and many of the sounds, were worked out by Mark or Alan.
I mistakenly thought I was musically to be an equal member. To be fair, it WAS explained to me. I guess I hoped I could sell them on my creativity too.
Of course, playing with Terry, Mark, Alan, John, Hal, (and at times, Mel Collins and, yes, Joop on percussion) was a fabulous experience!
We travelled the world, my first time to the Far East, and I learned a lot of musical style and control. Maybe not quite enough control, but I did my best to play the parts and make the band even greater than before. The hard bits were the volume swells on the synths, bringing in Strings with just the right onset. That's done with ones ankle btw.
Anyway, it was weird being "in" a band, but being told every note to play, even by a genius like Mark. I think I didn't accept his total authority quite enough. So the next tour, he went with Guy, who he had maybe asked before me anyway, but was busy on another tour, or so I heard later on.
I went on to play more with Bryan Adams, John Waite, Clash, B-52's, Cyndi, Tina, Chrissie, BonJovi, Richie Sambora, and have fine memories of my Dire Straits days.
In fact, Alan's and Guy's visit to Wembley when we played the stadium (it's on DVD) with Bryan A was one of my finest memories, seeing them and being proud.
I too wondered why my name was left off the video. And why the camera cut away to artistic film of punters outside the venue during my only solo - the Romeo and Juliet string orchestration that I composed, instead of showing me or my hands. If it were one or the other, I'd say 'coincidence.' But the two together? Could Mark have done that on purpose? I haven't really talked to him since, so I'll probably never know!
Nonetheless, I love John, Terry, Hal, Joop, Mel and Alan (the latter two whom I toured with last summer in Dire Straits Legacy doing the old tunes, but differently, with Trevor Horn on bass and Phil Palmer on guitar. It made me appreciate once again how good Mark's music is, 40 years down the road.)
Mark and I shared a few cool jams during soundchecks. We were born the same year, so we grew up with similar musical influences, which somehow surprised him. It's too bad we couldn't have ended up friends. I'm friends with all my other famous former bosses, like Bryan Adams, and John Waite, David Johansen, Ian Hunter, Mick Ronson (before he tragically died 30 years ago) -- but life goes on, I've been lucky to play with a lot of gifted guitar players Mick Ronson, Keith Scott, Richie Sambora, Earl Slick, Bo Diddley, Steve Love (Stories) & David Spinozza. Their playing touched me even deeper than Mark's, as respected as he is. Music is great, and thank Heaven for Everything!
You can check out my work at https://tommymandel.wordpress.com
Hello Tommy and welcome!
My heart nearly skipped a beat when I read that you composed that synth sound on Romeo and Juliet (the one that allows Mark to change guitar to the Ovation, I assume). That's one of my favourite parts of Dire Straits live music and I sometimes put on the record only to listen to that instrumentation, it's so beautiful. It brought a different life to that song so thank you so much for creating that.
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Fairly certain MK changes to the Gibson Chet Atkins although he is in silhouette in the video at that point to be fair. :)
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Fairly certain MK changes to the Gibson Chet Atkins although he is in silhouette in the video at that point to be fair. :)
Definitely. Its obviously a nylon stringed instrument given the sound....
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Fairly certain MK changes to the Gibson Chet Atkins although he is in silhouette in the video at that point to be fair. :)
Definitely. Its obviously a nylon stringed instrument given the sound....
yes of course. and this way, he could link directly to the song love over gold
BTW, some Ovation guitars have nylon strings though (the one on PI studio version, WT studio version, and GH studio version)
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Yes, my mistake. I had the Chet Atkins CE in mind but instead wrote Ovation, not sure why.
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Fairly certain MK changes to the Gibson Chet Atkins although he is in silhouette in the video at that point to be fair. :)
Definitely. Its obviously a nylon stringed instrument given the sound....
yes of course. and this way, he could link directly to the song love over gold
BTW, some Ovation guitars have nylon strings though (the one on PI studio version, WT studio version, and GH studio version)
I know, have one sat next to me! A pro series classic. Nice guitar.
I think Charlie Kamens (Ovation Founder) first guitars may well have been nylon strung although I know their very first model was the balladeer so I could be wrong on that. Lovely shiny backs as well! If you had one of those now they'd be worth a kings ransom......
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......
You can check out my work at https://tommymandel.wordpress.com
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Hello Tommy and welcome!
My heart nearly skipped a beat when I read that you composed that synth sound on Romeo and Juliet (the one that allows Mark to change guitar to the Ovation, I assume). That's one of my favourite parts of Dire Straits live music and I sometimes put on the record only to listen to that instrumentation, it's so beautiful. It brought a different life to that song so thank you so much for creating that.
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Thanks, '821 and Rüdiger, and thanks to everyone here for the warm welcome. I'll check in every so often. Great site! :thumbsup :) :wave