A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: xxFordiexx on December 16, 2011, 08:00:45 PM
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As normal, I've been checking out as much Knopfler stuff on youtube recently, I still feel quite blown away just how amazing His performances Live this year have been. Such energy. Jesus, he's 62 and blowing the competition out of the water. Songs like Speedway and Cleaning my gun were so well played. Lets not forget how great BIA has been too.
Just felt like saying lol 8)
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I've spent all my evening yesterday watching Speedway. And then watch again and again. I have to say it's the the first year I really like it. You're right xxFordiexx, the 2011 performances are great.
I'm sure many people laugh when Guy says every year the band is the best ever.
Indeed he may be right. For sure Mark was amazing. ;D
Tonight I've decided to watch Marbletown and tomorrow Cleaning my gun. 8)
YT is great but it's a pity it's only partial. :'(
That said, when I see the kind of vids they can have (some are very good) I seriously think of a different recording strategy for next tour. ::)
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That said, when I see the kind of vids they can have (some are very good) I seriously think of a different recording strategy for next tour. ::)
So what do you have in the pipeline for us fans? :lol ;D
LE
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That said, when I see the kind of vids they can have (some are very good) I seriously think of a different recording strategy for next tour. ::)
So what do you have in the pipeline for us fans? :lol ;D
LE
Just read between the lines and follow the white rabbit ;)
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Yes, quite simply I think it was the best tour since 2005. That's what makes it so annoying that it was only half a set and we didn't get a better (in my opinion) set list. One wonders why he wasn't playing like that on the last couple of tours though... ???
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One wonders why he wasn't playing like that on the last couple of tours though... ???
He was! I loved the shows I saw in 2010 and I am still enjoying those concerts via the Simfy recordings! :)
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Superval is right (as always :D). One should see it a little bit differentiated: Although Sonny Liston is really better than 2005/2008, and although the new songs are all very nice and well played (and very beautiful melodic), I would think that Hill Farmer's Blues and also Marbletown sounded much better on the last tour. Marbletown is a little ... "thinner" than last time, of course only my opinion. The same with Sailing To Philadelphia: Jim messed this one up, and I truly think that it cannot be better played than in the last weeks of the GL show, together with Matt, who really gave the track a new dimension. Also Mark's soloing was much more inspired on the last tour me thinks. But he plays great indeed, he has more power so to say, the sound itself is better, more electric, steamy, whatever. Speedway was also better with Danny. I can't fully agree with Guy Fletcher, too, when he says that this line-up is the best one. Well he said it, didn't he? Or was that last year? Or the year before?? ;D
I remember of course that it was Jim everytime on all the records (STP, RPD, Shangri-La) who played the parts - but it is just that he seems not right onto track anymore. All he does is doing the famous "Jim Cox can play everything but does plinky-plinky all the time so that'll be enough thank you".
Get Lucky is not only a great record, it is one of Mark's greatest because of Matt, who really gave something to every single track. Let alone Monteleone or Get Lucky itself, pure gems and so subtle and genious... it seems he has a direct connection with Mark, which can only be explained be heavy touring-together (2005, 2006, 2008, 2010...) But I get drifted away...
I loved this tour, but I still adore the last one - still can't get enough from my favourite shows... Locarno 2010 forever! And Bilbao! And... and...
Rant over! ;D
LE
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:lol LE - You're making me laugh out loud! :lol
I feel much the same as you, especially STP which seems to be a mere shadow of what it was in 2010. I really miss Matt on piano having all those conversations with Mark on the outro, now there seem to be some, almost awkward, silences where nothing seems to be happening, except for a distant tinkling of Jim on piano and almost nothing else, as though Mark is waiting for something to happen. I find it all a bit unsettling and I'm sorry to say, I find STP difficult to listen to from this tour.
I also have similar feelings about Speedway. Yes it is played much more powerfully this time and the crashing guitar of Richard is great to hear, but once more, I'm afraid it is Jim's organ on the outro which I find very intrusive and quite spoils what could have been one of the best Speedways yet.
I really hope Matt returns next tour, because I think his piano style suits the band much more than Jim's style.
I know what you mean about Marbletown, because when I listen to some of the 2010 recordings, they have so much more substance and seem more poetic somehow - Bonaparte seems a lot weaker this time too.
I think MK plays much more powerfully and energetically on this tour, but his fingers don't seem to be quite so accurate.
Anyway, I am really enjoying the new songs, especially Privateering and Haul Away from this tour, meantime I am still loving my Simfys from 2010. :)
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I was just coming home two hours ago from work, had to go by train, left the bookstore where I work which is in the middle of a German Christmas Market at the moment, which is absolutey pandemonium in this German area: Thousands of drunken people, it is much more like a donnybrook with too much booze than anything else. Overcrowded, late, superheated train, full of cullet and the smell of beer and booze, and the level of hue was totally out of any line. BUT: I was able to listen to the HANNOVER HAUL AWAY recording, and it was a little oasis of bliss for a few minutes, I closed my eyes, beamed my mind back to Hannover on that evening, and I repeated the track three or four times... Mark sings so great on this one... So yes, the new stuff is really awesome for every possible situation! :)
LE
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i hate to disagree with LE and superval, but for me the band can be as good as it wants, but if MK is not on form then it is irrelavent. I really found MKs playing the best he's done for years, so for me the piano player or drummer make no difference.
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i hate to disagree with LE and superval, but for me the band can be as good as it wants, but if MK is not on form then it is irrelavent. I really found MKs playing the best he's done for years, so for me the piano player or drummer make no difference.
I pretty much agree; It's Mark I go to see.
Before this tour I was Cox's biggest critic but now I'm finding him to be a real player rather than someone who just does a job (Matt). I think the silences described in STP were not Jims fault but technical problems because John McC had a similar problem. I do agree that Jim needs to pull in the reigns during Speedway though; he doesn't seem to know when to let Mark come back in. ???
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I agree with Val. Timing of Matt is better, which makes a real conversation on STP.
And also agree with you on Speedway, I love the guitarplaying of both MK and Richard this time, but when Matt would have done the organ and Danny drums it would have been the best ever I am sure.
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dmg, interesting, my opinion is the opposite, but hey! ;) I think only it is fair to say that BOTH of them are real players, and that BOTH of them are doing it for job reasons, because both of them have to do it for a living of course, I think the only one on board of the tour who hasn't to do it for money is MK!
I find it strange that Matt's quality as a Musician never was discussed before he made an appearance at "American Idol" or what's it called... That was obviously the cause of dismissal...
But let's not turn this into a Matt or Jim thread, it was indeed MK who was touring with (just another) band...
LE
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I disagree with all of you. Since Greece is not a destination for Mark, I think that his performances are a bit distant for me. ;D
Joke aside, I find that in many performances Mark's voice was a bit shaky.
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My opinion. I think we saw Mark energised and enthusiastic this tour, and the 2 shows I caught at Hammersmith were definately the best I have ever seen him play. As for Jim, I think he will be in the band ad infinitum. I suspect Mark thinks of him like he does of Richard and Glenn. No more Matt I suspect.
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Does any of you believe that we could get -at last- a MK/BD bluray this time, just like we got a MK/EH DVD back in 2006 ?
Where there any cameras at Hammersmith Odeon, sorry, Appolo, that would gives some hope for an "Alchemy II" live album ?
Would love it: same place, only 28 years later, but almost same energy !
Too bad no TR, no BR, no Piper... but would be better than nothing...
Can the economic rationale "one bluray, two artists" can prevail ?
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Brothers in music. (Son in music, for that matter)
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Yes, quite simply I think it was the best tour since 2005. That's what makes it so annoying that it was only half a set and we didn't get a better (in my opinion) set list. One wonders why he wasn't playing like that on the last couple of tours though... ???
Having a chair stuck to his backside (unavoidable) didn't help ;)
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Yes, quite simply I think it was the best tour since 2005. That's what makes it so annoying that it was only half a set and we didn't get a better (in my opinion) set list. One wonders why he wasn't playing like that on the last couple of tours though... ???
Having a chair stuck to his backside (unavoidable) didn't help ;)
I seem to remember in 2010 lots of people saying he played better than ever sitting down and hoped he kept the chair! ::)
I, myself, liked how he played sitting down, but, I agree, he certainly plays more powerfully and energetically standing up, plus the way he moves is mesmerising - he can't do that on a stool! :P
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Does any of you believe that we could get -at last- a MK/BD bluray this time, just like we got a MK/EH DVD back in 2006 ?
Where there any cameras at Hammersmith Odeon, sorry, Appolo, that would gives some hope for an "Alchemy II" live album ?
Would love it: same place, only 28 years later, but almost same energy !
Too bad no TR, no BR, no Piper... but would be better than nothing...
Can the economic rationale "one bluray, two artists" can prevail ?
I absolutely have no hope.
I didn't see any camera on the 1st night and I don't think there was the days after.
This was a Dylan tour and MK's stay-away attitude was very obvious.
His mission was to play the first act, no more, no less.
He did great, he had a lot of fun opening for Bob but he stayed very professional.
He wouldn't add any distraction such as video cameras in the house.
The other option is maybe Bob had organized something.
Hard to believe. I think he's less open than Mark on the video question. ::)
If they don't film, someone else has to. :-[
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Yes, quite simply I think it was the best tour since 2005. That's what makes it so annoying that it was only half a set and we didn't get a better (in my opinion) set list. One wonders why he wasn't playing like that on the last couple of tours though... ???
Having a chair stuck to his backside (unavoidable) didn't help ;)
I seem to remember in 2010 lots of people saying he played better than ever sitting down and hoped he kept the chair! ::)
I, myself, liked how he played sitting down, but, I agree, he certainly plays more powerfully and energetically standing up, plus the way he moves is mesmerising - he can't do that on a stool! :P
Not me, that's for sure..... I wa more worried that he'd end up keeping the chair he said he enjoyed using it on a few occasions... PHEW thank God :)
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I was just coming home two hours ago from work, had to go by train, left the bookstore where I work which is in the middle of a German Christmas Market at the moment, which is absolutey pandemonium in this German area: Thousands of drunken people, it is much more like a donnybrook with too much booze than anything else. Overcrowded, late, superheated train, full of cullet and the smell of beer and booze, and the level of hue was totally out of any line. BUT: I was able to listen to the HANNOVER HAUL AWAY recording, and it was a little oasis of bliss for a few minutes, I closed my eyes, beamed my mind back to Hannover on that evening, and I repeated the track three or four times... Mark sings so great on this one... So yes, the new stuff is really awesome for every possible situation! :)
LE
Haha LE, your comment made me smile. Most of the time I use the buss to get to work and as soon as I step in the buss, I put on my litle headphone and after connecting it to my mobilephone, I start listening to Mark's music as well and ..........close my eyes to be on my own little island between all the young school kids! LOL .....What a way to start and end the (working) day with listening to all the beautiful songs! ;D
Fieneke
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Perhaps we should change the title of this thread to "Knopfler Last Year Live!!" ;D ;D
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If Mark does a tour this year, I would love him even more if he would get of his high horse, and do a SHOW..
The concert with BD in Jyske Bank Boxen, was incredibly boring. Dont get me wrong, I love the music to death, but I will not spend a dime on another "show", if it doesnt change.. :)
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MK4ever: MK has never done a show, if you mean with show moving and playing like a lot of rock&roll stars do. He plays, that's it. But he plays like an angel and it's always better than on an album. If you don't like him standing there then it's better not to go to a live-show. I don't need him to run around the stage, I don't need lightshows, I only want that music. And of course I would love to hear him doing some longer solos, but I am totally happy with every liveshow he is doing.
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MK4ever: MK has never done a show, if you mean with show moving and playing like a lot of rock&roll stars do. He plays, that's it. But he plays like an angel and it's always better than on an album. If you don't like him standing there then it's better not to go to a live-show. I don't need him to run around the stage, I don't need lightshows, I only want that music. And of course I would love to hear him doing some longer solos, but I am totally happy with every liveshow he is doing.
I agree entirely! All I want is to hear MK's wonderful music and I am never disappointed. :)
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In 2012, I want MK to be Lady Gaga. ;D
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In 2012, I want MK to be Lady Gaga. ;D
No, you don't.
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...and I totally agree .. ;) I've followed Mark since the very beginning, and loved him ever since. All I'm saying is, he COULD try and do something different next time. I've seen him 8 times including Dire Straits. He says the same things, does the same moves, at every show, thinking it's the first time..the internet has been around for at least 15 years now..
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In 2012, I want MK to be Lady Gaga. ;D
No, you don't.
.. ;D
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...and I totally agree .. ;) I've followed Mark since the very beginning, and loved him ever since. All I'm saying is, he COULD try and do something different next time. I've seen him 8 times including Dire Straits. He says the same things, does the same moves, at every show, thinking it's the first time..the internet has been around for at least 15 years now..
MK is never going to change how he moves, because that is HIM - it's part of his character! He is not going to suddenly start doing something that would be alien to him! As for saying the same things - yes he does do that, but I regard it as a kind of private family joke! We hear the same phrases on every tour and we smile or laugh politely, but somehow it doesn't matter, because we love him and, first and foremost we are there to see him play his music.
You do realise, don't you, that we will always be "very sweet" to him! ;D
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MK is never going to change how he moves, because that is HIM - it's part of his character! He is not going to suddenly start doing something that would be alien to him! As for saying the same things - yes he does do that, but I regard it as a kind of private family joke! We hear the same phrases on every tour and we smile or laugh politely, but somehow it doesn't matter, because we love him and, first and foremost we are there to see him play his music.
You do realise, don't you, that we will always be "very sweet" to him! ;D
Well I wouldn't mind for a bit teeth guitar playing, or putting the guitar on fire. And since we are only used to see such things from Jimi and young musicians, it would surely be a first for our elder hero, or any older guitar player for that matter. Of course I am only joking but there is always a part of truth in the jokes.I surely wouldn't mind for a specially made rockumentary in the "Spinal tap" vein, the whole seriousness kills a bit part of the fan, and the inside joke of repeating the same old words to every gig has ceased to be a joke from the third repeat. Well he could pay some comedian to write him a couple of originals per gig. And maybe swear a bit, he'd look more rock. And maybe play a couple of songs by Deep Purple, or, why not, Lady Gaga. They rock!!! I am sick of him playing the same old songs all the time, or even his new songs that are quite like his old ones: boring. Why even record them, they are like they were written, way back in the 30ies. I want new space age sounds, Guy should contribute more with synth sounds and not the crappy guitar finger style, it's been done to death. And having all these musicians on stage playing these ancient instruments and PIANO? Is this why my ticket is so expensive? Paying these people to play Tinkerbell music? Give me a break. MK wrote just one decent song and he is cashing on it ever since. Let me tell you, "Les boys" was terrific, but had a lousy bridge, but I could forgive it because of the fine lyrics, but it is just one song over 30 years ago. I much prefer the recording career of the group "it's Immaterial" - "running away from home" fame. And anyway who cares about music in the concerts. The fine recordings are done in the studio, with lots of overdubs, EQs and special guests that can actually play the guitar and sing. You go to the concerts in order to say to your grandchildren that you've been there, for the beer, chicks and the drugs. And let me tell you there are not much of these things in an MK gig. So say NO to MK and say YES to Jimi Hendrix. Even dead he is more alive.
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ROFL! :o :lol
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Quote Vgonis2002: "You go to the concerts in order to say to your grandchildren that you've been there, for the beer, chicks and the drugs. And let me tell you there are not much of these things in an MK gig."
Hhhmm ..... are you joking Vgonis? ::) If you are serious, then I have to say that I disagree with you! ;D
I love watching Mark on stage, I love the music and I even think the music is better live then on an album, that is my opinion! Of course it would be wonderful if we would be able listening to all his songs of all his albums, but I don
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LMAO
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I hope you don't mind my intervention. Although I am primarily a Dylan fan (and have seen him live dozens and dozens and of times), I have also seen MK many, many times live. This has been in various formulations (DS, NHBs, solo tours and contributing to tribute shows) and in different kinds of venues (stadia, arenas, smaller halls, clubs), so I can speak from some experience.
Yes, I have criticised MK in the past for the fact that he does essentially the same show night after night on any tour but, if putting on a show is simply to satisfy his devoted audience, then I am opposed to that suggestion. Pandering to this audience may get him a short-term gain but it will be at the cost of his long-term artistic development. Yes, he has a unique guitar style and a lovely touch but he cannot grow musically on that alone. I like the fact that the seeds of some of the songs that I enjoy most seem to have come from books he has read and that he has nutured these seeds until they germinate and flourish. I love the way he has veered towards his folk roots but, equally, I know that he may find something else to inspire him and that he could move off in a direction less to my liking. There is nothing wrong with this; indeed, it is to be admired and encouraged. Those who seek to ossify him should open themselves up to new possibilities.
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Those who seek to ossify him should open themselves up to new possibilities.
Well Guy said on his forum that the fact that there is a harmonica on the new album, points to the style of some of the new songs. As much as I love his folkiness on recent albums, I am hoping for a more bluesy album this time!
Would something more bluesy suit you, twm?
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Thinking back to the 2011 live newbies, I was far less impressed by them than the folkies ones from 2010.
So a bluesy sound for next album why not?
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I like the blues, too.
Last night, we went to see BluesClub in a small venue. This band now has Guy Fletcher and Danny Cummings amongst its members. They did a roughly 2-hour set, straight through, mostly made up of old R'n'B numbers from the late-1940s to the 1960s. In my youth, I was pretty keen on this and saw, amongst others, Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, Little Walter, John Lee Hooker, Buddy Guy, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Sonny Boy Williamson and Willie Dixon live. I also saw some of the earlier greats live, such as Sleepy John Estes, Blind Gary Davis and Son House. If MK's new album veers in this direction, I am likely to pleased.
The presence of a harmonica player doesn't limit it to being blues-based, of course. The harmonica player in BluesClub is Peter Hope-Evans, so maybe it is him on the new album.
I think a song like "Privateering" could grow on me, though it is not exactly made for an R'n'B treatment.
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Bought the new issue of Uncut (February) has a two line reference to MK going back to the studio for his 7th solo album.
Also read that the CD format might become obsolete due to poor sales, and instead they will issue only download versions or (maybe) special overpriced editions for the fans.
Blues or folk we are all going to buy it, so what's the use? I really feel that an outside producer (like Lanois) could do the trick and breath new air to MK's songs. Think about the Beatles. I don't think that they would have made it that big without George Martin's inventive production. Of course they had great songs, but so did the Kinks, another great band but with poor production. Of course MK's production is fine, well polished and all, but it is the extra ideas that come from an outside pair of ears that can do the trick. Don't get me wrong, Ilove his music no matter what, but just think how many times have you listened to your fav DS song and your MK song.
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twm - I saw the BluesClub Band a couple of years ago at The Inglenook and it was very enjoyable, except for one thing - Gary Grainger who was the guitarist at that time (now replaced with Robbie McIntosh), was much the worse for drink, so Guy's son, Max helped out. He also opened and played some Dylan songs! I was greatly impressed by the harmonica player, Peter Hope-Evans and, indeed, he is terrific on the BC album too - definitely one of the highlights!
BTW The harmonica player on the new album is Kim Wilson, not Peter.
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but just think how many times have you listened to your fav DS song and your MK song.
Too many times to count! :lol
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Yes, it was The Inglenook and Robbie McIntosh was very good. I heard or read that he is a Lightnin' Hopkins fan. I should have taken along a booklet I have (from Belgium) devoted to Hopkins; gee, it must be 45 years old now! Peter Hope-Evans was very good indeed.
There was a young man on the door who looked the spitting image of Guy - I assume he has more than one son. The other person on the door, I'm pretty sure, was Danny's son.
They were selling signed CDs on the door, too.
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. And maybe swear a bit, he'd look more rock. And maybe play a couple of songs by Deep Purple,
That would be great, seriously. DP is the best band ever. He should play more obscure stuff like Bloodsucker, Into the Fire, Our Lady, No one came, Anyone
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Ferguitar, you really beat me, in my own game! Apart from the statements where irony meets sarcasm to create a unique blend, I have to disagree with you on two points. Jon Lord created great space sounds with the ancient compared to today's instruments. I do believe that DP without him would never have been the same.(Same goes of course for RB and IG and RG and IP. OK IP was included only because I like his drumming).
The other one about Hendrix, I have to say that even though he is way over rated, he was very gifted. I don't like his live stuff, too much noise, as you say, but you have to admit that the control he had obtained over the instrument was fantastic. His studio albums are all unsurpassed, innovative, primitive and yet light years ahead of their time. You have to remember that he was the first artist to produce a so complex studio album, Electric Ladyland, that was actually a great artistic and commercial success, even though he couldn't read and write music! Hell, I don't like his live shows, but if you can stand the test, you might be able to understand the control it takes to reproduce the studio sound with all these overdubbed guitars, on a single guitar. Playing licks, rhythm and solos while filling the gaps at the same time! (of course his backing band was terrific and could support him, especially M. Mitchell. May God rest their souls-It is the first group that all members are gone)
That said he is the most over rated but still the one that deserves to be so. Just look at some other guitarists like Kurt Cobain! Frusciante! J.Mascis! Knopfler!!! Blackmore!!!! Gilmour!!!!! Just lucky to write some good songs in the right place at the right time.
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Ferguitar, you really beat me, in my own game! Apart from the statements where irony meets sarcasm to create a unique blend, I have to disagree with you on two points. Jon Lord created great space sounds with the ancient compared to today's instruments. I do believe that DP without him would never have been the same.(Same goes of course for RB and IG and RG and IP. OK IP was included only because I like his drumming).
The other one about Hendrix, I have to say that even though he is way over rated, he was very gifted. I don't like his live stuff, too much noise, as you say, but you have to admit that the control he had obtained over the instrument was fantastic. His studio albums are all unsurpassed, innovative, primitive and yet light years ahead of their time. You have to remember that he was the first artist to produce a so complex studio album, Electric Ladyland, that was actually a great artistic and commercial success, even though he couldn't read and write music! Hell, I don't like his live shows, but if you can stand the test, you might be able to understand the control it takes to reproduce the studio sound with all these overdubbed guitars, on a single guitar. Playing licks, rhythm and solos while filling the gaps at the same time! (of course his backing band was terrific and could support him, especially M. Mitchell. May God rest their souls-It is the first group that all members are gone)
That said he is the most over rated but still the one that deserves to be so. Just look at some other guitarists like Kurt Cobain! Frusciante! J.Mascis! Knopfler!!! Blackmore!!!! Gilmour!!!!! Just lucky to write some good songs in the right place at the right time.
Sure, Todays Deep Purple is c rap and a joke to their past legacy. DP without Blackmore is like DS without MK. (oops The Straits anyone)LOL. You seem to know well enough about DP related history, did you hear about Over the Rainbow? Its Rainbow without RB!! They were like Straits pioneers! Of course, it lasted about 2 years.....
I was born in 79, so i was not there, but according to various accounts from various musicians who were there, Hendrix wasn
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Whilst I think Hendrix really looked the part and had some great sounds, I do believe he is overrated purely on the fact that he's dead.....
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Dear ferguitar, please don't get me wrong. The music field is just joy and fun,not a battlefield. It is only a matter of taste and preferences, not matter of life and death, and that is why I always reply jokingly to such threads, because taking it too seriously actually kills half the joy. I respect every taste in music and that is why I will be the first to joke about my own little obsessions. (namely Dire straits, Mark Knopfler, Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, Hefner and Belle and Sebastian.) But I am no older than you, and I was listening and buying to Iron Maiden, Europe, Helloween, (don't laugh) Madonna and Michael Jackson before Dire straits and the rest I mentioned before. So, I can not deny my past...
Also been a rock fan (what ever this means) and working from an early age, allowed me to obtain all the records I could afford. It is no big secret, that you can find most easily, only the ones that sold millions of records, and usually these records have either a big hit or were actually good as a whole. Deep Purple and Rainbow are surely among the second group, that repeatedly released good records. I have all of their records until 1980, (and from then on only a handful) mostly on vinyl. Some I like more, some less, some I can't listen to anymore, but have fond memories from the time I was listening to them. My first DP record was their second one, before the classic line, and I still like it very much, thanks to the fantastic guitar of RB. (Since I mentioned Europe before, John Norum on his first album took a piece of the Donovan penned "Lalena" and added to one of his songs. By the way do you know the story and lift behind Child in Time? From Bombay calling instrumental be It's a beautiful day. And that is a fantastic record, that DP helped me find.) Early on I also bought RB's Rainbow which I haven't heard for a long time, but still regard as great. (Rising has a more full sound, imo) By the way I heard Dio's "Dream Evil" 3 years before any Rainbow album!!! I would love to discuss DP and Rainbow seriously with big amounts of humor, seems I have lots to learn (I found out about OTR from you, just now), but maybe we could-should start a new topic-thread about it. What do you say?
As for Jimi, no need to argue. I like his albums a lot, but don't have stocks on him, so over rated or not doesn't mean anything to me. But I remember when I first heard a mix tape with his best songs, his guitar playing was so different from anything I have heard that far (MK's too but in a more quite subtle way) and remember I was into Heavy metal guitarists that like to pick moves from other guitarists and use pyrotechnics to boost their sales. And millions of fans can't be wrong, even if some of them are dragged only from the hype and the critics over rating him. On the other hand Vanilla Fudge were good but didn't make it as big. Their records in MINT condition are costly to buy, and that means a lot.
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Good grief! Whatever else I might have expected here, it was not Vanilla Fudge.
I actually have their first album on vinyl, bought around the time it came out or soon after, probably on the basis of their "You Keep Me Hanging On" single. I used to love their slowed-down, drawn-out and heavily syncopated renditions of others' songs. "People Get Ready" was not perhaps the best example but I just love that song; "She's Not There" was pretty good, though.
I guess my copy of the LP (Atlantic 588 086, for those who can be bothered to check these things) cannot be regarded as truly "mint" but it must be VG or even VG+. I never knew that there was a demand for such things. Some regarded Vanilla Fudge (and this album) as some kind of psychedelic phenomenon but that's not the way I heard them (or it). More symphonic than psychedelic, with some pretty emphatic drumming. In fact, it's the rhythm of the drumming that I can recall now as I sit typing this post.
While the solarised image on the front cover was striking, the photos of the band members on the back showed people looking decidedly uncool to me. Someone sent me a photo recently, one I'd never seen before, from around the same time, and, if I say so myself, I look a bit more cool than they did, in my yellow ochre poloneck, bright blue waistcoat, wildly multicoloured trousers, ignoring both the camera and the girl next me (now a singer-songwriter in New Zealand apparently) and staring up into the sky through dark shades. And I was just a student without a corporate budget with which to outfit myself. If they were "psychedelic", they certainly didn't look the part. Later maybe but not in 1967. Now, The Incredible String Band (totally different sound, of course) really did look the part - and I saw them in places as small as a pub in Hampstead and as large as the Royal Festival Hall (when Tim Buckley guested for a few songs).
Another niggle about Vanilla Fudge is that, generally, I prefer to see and hear bands live. In their case, however, I suspect I would find that a rather tedious experience - not that I ever got the chance to see them live anyway.
Also, I never bought any of their subsequent albums, which may say something.
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Dear ferguitar, please don't get me wrong. The music field is just joy and fun,not a battlefield. It is only a matter of taste and preferences, not matter of life and death, and that is why I always reply jokingly to such threads, because taking it too seriously actually kills half the joy. I respect every taste in music and that is why I will be the first to joke about my own little obsessions. (namely Dire straits, Mark Knopfler, Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, Hefner and Belle and Sebastian.) But I am no older than you, and I was listening and buying to Iron Maiden, Europe, Helloween, (don't laugh) Madonna and Michael Jackson before Dire straits and the rest I mentioned before. So, I can not deny my past...
Also been a rock fan (what ever this means) and working from an early age, allowed me to obtain all the records I could afford. It is no big secret, that you can find most easily, only the ones that sold millions of records, and usually these records have either a big hit or were actually good as a whole. Deep Purple and Rainbow are surely among the second group, that repeatedly released good records. I have all of their records until 1980, (and from then on only a handful) mostly on vinyl. Some I like more, some less, some I can't listen to anymore, but have fond memories from the time I was listening to them. My first DP record was their second one, before the classic line, and I still like it very much, thanks to the fantastic guitar of RB. (Since I mentioned Europe before, John Norum on his first album took a piece of the Donovan penned "Lalena" and added to one of his songs. By the way do you know the story and lift behind Child in Time? From Bombay calling instrumental be It's a beautiful day. And that is a fantastic record, that DP helped me find.) Early on I also bought RB's Rainbow which I haven't heard for a long time, but still regard as great. (Rising has a more full sound, imo) By the way I heard Dio's "Dream Evil" 3 years before any Rainbow album!!! I would love to discuss DP and Rainbow seriously with big amounts of humor, seems I have lots to learn (I found out about OTR from you, just now), but maybe we could-should start a new topic-thread about it. What do you say?
As for Jimi, no need to argue. I like his albums a lot, but don't have stocks on him, so over rated or not doesn't mean anything to me. But I remember when I first heard a mix tape with his best songs, his guitar playing was so different from anything I have heard that far (MK's too but in a more quite subtle way) and remember I was into Heavy metal guitarists that like to pick moves from other guitarists and use pyrotechnics to boost their sales. And millions of fans can't be wrong, even if some of them are dragged only from the hype and the critics over rating him. On the other hand Vanilla Fudge were good but didn't make it as big. Their records in MINT condition are costly to buy, and that means a lot.
Nice dude. Maybe is my bad english, but i never said music is a competiton. I just stated DP withou RB is a joke ;D. Yes, the Its a beautiful day story is pretty well documented. Ritchie is the first to talk about where he gets "influence" for his riffs. Lazy is lifted from Im so glad, Black Night is "borrowed" from Summertime and so on. Anyway, Bombay Calling got their "revenge" by using a Purple song (Wring that Neck) and making it their own.
Again, maybe you have a better grasp of english than i do, but i found you a bit snobbish at times. Nothing wrong with Heavy Metal/Heavy Rock music. On the opposite of what the so called experts says, it has a lot of value. Lots of melodies (yes, it has), nice instrumentation, great lyrics dealing with all subjects. People always say "when i was a kid" i listen to HM, now i cant do it anymore, cannot deny my past, im ashamed, dont laugh.....i say MEH. But its nice heavy rock music remains the underdog. :D
PS - "And millions of fans can't be wrong" - Are you sure???? ;D
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Ferguitar, I am not ashamed of my past, the reference has to do with the attitude coming mainly from metal-heads, that if you dare listen (and God forbid) like any other kind of music, you are a traitor! :-X I still listen, like and buy heavy metal records. Keep following Maiden, Helloween, Metallica, and about a dozen more, and I really miss Crimson Glory.Their "Transcendence" album was a masterpiece. Of course my life and preferences are quite different now, and the little time i have is mostly divided to other kinds of music. (not even MK!) If you notice I say don't laugh, just before Madonna, which by the way I am not ashamed, other wise I wouldn't have admitted it, in the first place. If there is something I don't like in heavy metal (and any other kind of music for that matter) has to be a part of the fans with clogged minds and ears, that can't see quality and beauty in other music, some times even without even giving it a try.
As for your english, they are not bad at all. I bet mine are, if I sound pompous, arrogant, patronizing or snobbish. It is not my intention and I am sorry. I also don't like using the faces, because I like it a bit when people try to finger out if I am serious or I am joking. Maybe I should use them. ;) Thank you for telling me, so kindly.
I don't have an opinion for RB's solo career or DP's career without him, so I take your word for it. I know about S.Morse being an excellent guitarist, from the Kansas days, but that is not enough.
P.S. Yes, millions of fans can be wrong (see Britney Spears ), but not for so long. And apart from fans, critics can't be wrong at the same time. And even if they are, well, they are not wrong about Hendrix, take my word for it. ;) ;D :lol
By the way any releases by DP and Rainbow worth listening after 1980? (I have difficult to cure and Perfect strangers) And any other great records by other groups you like? Maybe we have more in common.
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Can't believe what was said about the GREAT Jimi
You can of course dislike his music, but saying he is overated ?
You have to remember that it was in late 60's. At this time, he was a musical OVNI.
Of course, nowadays, if you listen to whatever shred guitarist, you will find that Jimi is overated, but I totally disagree with that statement
He was a wonderful guitarist, he was a wondeful songwriter, his studio recordings techniques (with Eddie Kramer ), his sounds, his ideas were on another planet, regarding what was at this time.
and he was very humble
the rock guitar would never have been the same without him
Jimi was not only a fantastic rock showman, he did some fabulous arrangements in studio
listen to his studio recordings, and you will hear he wasn't " a noisy bastard with some uninpressive moves."
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Thank you, for putting this right, Jean-Francois! :D This thread has lost track a few posts before somehow...
LE
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Ferguitar, I am not ashamed of my past, the reference has to do with the attitude coming mainly from metal-heads, that if you dare listen (and God forbid) like any other kind of music, you are a traitor! :-X I still listen, like and buy heavy metal records. Keep following Maiden, Helloween, Metallica, and about a dozen more, and I really miss Crimson Glory.Their "Transcendence" album was a masterpiece. Of course my life and preferences are quite different now, and the little time i have is mostly divided to other kinds of music. (not even MK!) If you notice I say don't laugh, just before Madonna, which by the way I am not ashamed, other wise I wouldn't have admitted it, in the first place. If there is something I don't like in heavy metal (and any other kind of music for that matter) has to be a part of the fans with clogged minds and ears, that can't see quality and beauty in other music, some times even without even giving it a try.
As for your english, they are not bad at all. I bet mine are, if I sound pompous, arrogant, patronizing or snobbish. It is not my intention and I am sorry. I also don't like using the faces, because I like it a bit when people try to finger out if I am serious or I am joking. Maybe I should use them. ;) Thank you for telling me, so kindly.
I don't have an opinion for RB's solo career or DP's career without him, so I take your word for it. I know about S.Morse being an excellent guitarist, from the Kansas days, but that is not enough.
P.S. Yes, millions of fans can be wrong (see Britney Spears ), but not for so long. And apart from fans, critics can't be wrong at the same time. And even if they are, well, they are not wrong about Hendrix, take my word for it. ;) ;D :lol
By the way any releases by DP and Rainbow worth listening after 1980? (I have difficult to cure and Perfect strangers) And any other great records by other groups you like? Maybe we have more in common.
I never fit stereotipes and the majority of "Heavy Metal" fans that i know are pretty open minded. A lot of MK and Dylan fans are not. Even MK sounds snobish when he talks about Heavy Metal music (ok, its his opinion but.....lol), he says he only like "roots" old music. What the hell does that mean? Blues? Country? If you want roots, im sorry but you gotta dig deeper and go wayyyyy before blues/country, since there wAs lots of music before that that actually influenced those genres. He also say HM musicians cannot use Nationals or use slide? Stick to be a dictator on DS dude. (MK is my favorite but camom....)
RB solo carreer is a Renaissence type of band (talk about "roots" music hauhua) called Blackmore
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[quote author=Jean-Fran
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Sorry, totally disagree
can't explain, my english is too bad
I could argue in french, but too difficult for me in english
sorry, but I use google to translate some words or sentences, so apologize if my meaning is not accurate
I think It's a pity that when people think to Hendrix, they only think of live music, playing with teeth, guitar burned,and so on...
but Hendrix was more more more more than that
he "revolutionized" the recording in studio
of cours many other musicians of that era did some wonderful music, but after 66-67, many of them were inspired by his sutdio recordings technique, his guitar tones.
You can only think at the Beatles, the stones, led zep, CSN, Santana, Calpton, Beck...
all guitarists from this era would said to you they were totally blown away by him
just few days after Sergent Pepper's release, he listened to it backstage and played it live a few minutes after while Lennon and Mccartney were in the audience, saying, what the F... ? Who would do that nowadays ?
Mick Taylor said that he played backstage with Jimi, and there wasn't left-handed guitar available, but no problem, Jimi played with a right-handed guitar (strings reversed) without difficulties
there are many other examples of his musical facilities, and despite all this, he was very very humble
he explored all kind of musics : blues, rock, soul, funk, early hard-rock, "hard-blues", early fusion, psychedelic, british pop (yes, with vocal harmonies, and subtil arrangements), jazz (just before his death, he was playing with Miles Davis)
he was miles ahead from other musicians of his era, not necessarily in terms of techniques
and yes he was a wonderful songwriter, far more than MK.
That's the difference : MK is my favourite guitarist / musician /song writer, but I think that one of the best guitarists / musicians /song writers in the rock history is Jimi Hendrix, no doubt for the guitarist.
There was rock guitar before and after Jimi, it's obvious
Even Ritchie Blackmore was obviously influenced by Jimi, but never reached his level (although I like Deep Purple a lot)
DP without Blackmore is like DS without MK.
I disagree.
DS was obviously MK
but DP wasn't only RB.
Songs were composed also mainly by Lord and Glover
MK wrote and composed all songs.
He produced all, he choosed the arrangements
He sings, and play the main instrument in his music
so of course, MK is DS
DP is RB's guitar tone, but also Ian Gillian's voice, Lord's typical organ sound (listen to Lazy's intro), Glover and Lord's arrangements, etc...
So DP without RB is'nt really DP, but you can't compared it to the Straits, IMHO
There's big diffrences between DS which wasn't a band, and other bands like Floyd, Queen, DP, Led Zep, Who, Beatles, Stones.. which blended ideas from (almost) all musicians in their bands
In the end, I'm not trying to convince you :)
Just want to say that there are artists with some obvious genius, and even if we don't like them, we can recognize their talent
there are many artists I don't like, but I must say : wow, respect
and there are many other artists I love, but must admit : errr...not big references in art history
e.g I like watching Lethal weapon many times, but I know it isn't a "great" movie :D
I think some Godard's movies are sublimes, but I hardly manage to reach the end....
I think that Bowie or Coltrane are great musicians in music history, but their music don't do anything to me
Sometimes, I like to listen to FM soft-rock from the 80ies, but I am aware it's not essential in the rock history
cheers :)
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Ferguitar, I know all of them but Danny Gatton. Just downloaded some videos from youtube, so I am one step from finding out. Thank you for pointing him out. The rest are artists I know and love, and have many or most of their works. I will have to get back to you some other time with my favourites, even though we have 3 or 4 common ones. As for Hendrix being over rated, I carry on because I love the wordplay. So, yes he is over rated. They have given him a god like status, when he was only a human. But then again, maybe the best human guitarist ;) :lol :P
Another one with godlike status, Eric Clapton, well I believe he is over rated.(I still enjoy very much his Derek & the dominoes album, his Cream output and at least 5 albums from his long career). Peter Green was way better, even Jimmy Page was more versatile. But this has nothing to do with actual guitar skill, but with the success of the particular compositions. There are so many fantastic guitarists that they just didn't make it to the spot light of fame. So every famous guitarist, is in a way over rated. No need to argue on the degree of over rated-ness.
Jean-Francois, your posts are so long, and if you have to translate, that speaks volumes for your passion. Bravo and thank you!
Listen to Coltrane's "A love supreme" and Bowie's "Alandinsane". My introductory records to them two 20 years ago. Gordard and Lethal weapon, in the mix :lol How about Kislowskie or Hitchcock and Ghost dog? (only joking)
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ferguitar, I am going to create a new thread calling members to state their other favourite musicians/groups and albums. Check it out in a day or two, it will be there.
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[quote author=Jean-Fran
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http://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php/topic,2252.0.html
The new thread I was telling you about ferguitar! A top 20 of favourite artists.
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Well, this is not a place to discuss this, but DP was/is RB. Even Lord and the others (even Gillan) said Ritchie was the prime mover of ther band, he was the one with the riffs, the ideas. As for the credits - they made a deal at the beggining that everyone should get a credit, but it not represented who actualy wrote the songs. Do you follow them now? Its a tribute to RB, 90% of the set is Ritchies songs.... Anyway, boring stuff for a DS forum..
Well I don't find it boring at all :)
even in MK forum, I think we can talk about music in general :)
I find fascinating to search where music comes from
does it come from a band, from a single musician ?
In another thread, I gave the example of money : it is writen and composed by Waters, even the famous riff, but of course, it would never have sounded the same without Gilmour
so in the case of DP, even if Blackmore wrote almost all songs, he didn't sang it, and the guiart wasn't always the "main" instrument, so I'd say that others musicians brought more "ideas" than DS musicians did.
I see a difference between :
Mk who write, compose, play,sing, produce a song
and :
RB write a song, and it is sung by another one, and "played" by others (Lord's keyboard are an important key of the DP sound)
I'd say it's a bit like a Who song, composed by PT, but played by the band
PS - RB says he was influenced by the way Hendrix moved, his playin he says was "weird".
of course it was, I don't remember who said that (a bluesman or a journalist ?) : Jimi played the blues from the delta, but this delta was on Mars ;)
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[quote author=Jean-Fran
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Yaaaawwwwnnnnn.....
And RB is...? Richard Bennett? ::)
You cannot honestly be expect me to read all this Hendrix stuff here at this KNOPFLER THIS YEAR LIVE thread...
LE
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[quote author=Jean-Fran
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Yaaaawwwwnnnnn.....
And RB is...? Richard Bennett? ::)
You cannot honestly be expect me to read all this Hendrix stuff here at this KNOPFLER THIS YEAR LIVE thread...
LE
yes indeed, any discusion is allowed on the MK forum, but try and do it in the respective forums. RB is Ritchie Blackmore, another not too bad guitar player :-)
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Yes, indeed. And you vgonis, you should know better. :lol
Sorry guys, but it was to good to let go. After all we are not going to see MK live this year, and I thought I might use this thread and not let it go to waste. And after all Hendrix is the key to all guitar related musician, that is why I thought it relevant. ;D
RB is Richie Blackmore, as Pottel so rightly mentions. DP stands for Deep Purple and the rest initials are the other members of DP. Now that you can understand and follow the discussion, you are welcome to participate. ;)
Thank you for your understanding and it won't happen again. At least not on this thread. :P
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Aaaaaaaaaahhh, I was only kiddin'
But as the mentioned year is over the thread is done anyway... So why not.
Maybe I will open a new thread called "Knopfler this year live (again!)" ;D
LE
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As the great Lenin said: "You should read the previous page". ;D
LE I know what you mean. It is a nightmare when you go back and search for info in the related topics and you find irrelevant material. Genuine apologies, even if you were joking and I pushed the joke to its limits. :)
But let's not make this thread an apologies thread or we're going to hear it again...
I think that MK is going to perform in small venues in April and May to promote the new soundtrack (except if the soundtrack music is to be a part of his new album. Who said there going to be two separate releases? And then after the release of his new album in August 14th , he is going to tour in October to December, but mainly in the US, so he can do the same split gigs, this time with Leonard Cohen. :P
How about this being related? :-* (first time to use this little face, that sends kisses. It is rather awful, and it may be misinterpreted. Sorry in advance)
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;D
MK has never done live promo work for his soundtracks as far as I remember. Would be cool if he did so. I really think that there are two separated releases. It was quite cool on the 1996 tour when he put in these little soundtrack pieces into the set list.
LE
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Maybe, but I believe that Alchemy was in order to promote the Local Hero and in a smaller degree Comfort and Joy soundtracks and movies. It starts and ends with music from Local Hero, and contains PI and Telegraph road that both can be heard during comfort and joy as the original compositions and re-writes (Joy and a fistful of ice cream) After all both movies came after LoG. ;D
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Yes! I have thought for a while now that MK should do stuff from his soundtracks on his world tours! Like, "Irish Boy" or "The Long Road" from Cal; these would work well with the musicians he tours with. Especially now that Mike McGoldrick has been playing the "elbow" pipes on the past couple tours. And if the crowd wants some more electric guitar: Wag the Dog tracks!
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Right on brother PixelPerfect!And Priveteering could be from Private peaceful. Even Corn beef...Maybe this tour can be the OST tour.
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Yes! I have thought for a while now that MK should do stuff from his soundtracks on his world tours! Like, "Irish Boy" or "The Long Road" from Cal; these would work well with the musicians he tours with. Especially now that Mike McGoldrick has been playing the "elbow" pipes on the past couple tours. And if the crowd wants some more electric guitar: Wag the Dog tracks!
I love The Long Road. The acoustic guitar playing at the end just as it's fading out is sublime. :P