A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Jarle on March 31, 2011, 10:44:12 PM
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Hi, everyone!
I know this version was posted here not to long ago, but I found it in better quality, so it deserves its own thread ;)
Just a brilliant end solo on Telegraph Road. Maybe the best I have seen. Mark really gets into the groove on this one. Perfect and heavy playing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsRy4e4aOzg
Enjoy!
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Great stuff indeed.
On a side note, I'm not really one of those that think that Mark and David Gilmour are obvious collaborators. They are just too different musically. But on Telegraph Road, I'd love to hear them trade solos. I think Gilmour's long, heavy notes would be really cool on this.
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I always said this is the best version of TR since 1982-83 versions...
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Great stuff indeed.
On a side note, I'm not really one of those that think that Mark and David Gilmour are obvious collaborators. They are just too different musically. But on Telegraph Road, I'd love to hear them trade solos. I think Gilmour's long, heavy notes would be really cool on this.
MK & DG 8) What a lovely thought!!!!
Cheers. BBB
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Finally got round to watching the clip.
Such a powerful song with what must be IMO his
Best outro EVER!!!!!!
Really hope he is able to stand on the next tour
It definitely adds to the atmosphere of the song.
Cheers. BBB
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I agree, 2005 had wonderful TR.
The Log tour versions were fantastic but a bit too nervous.
The oes tour versions featured an amazing "out of space" outro solo - even too fast, as if MK was showing off; but they were spoiled by a cut intro, and by Paul Franklin abuse of pedal steel guitar.
The 2008/2010 versions were too laid back for my taste.
The peak was 96 to 2005. I used to have Vaison la Romaine 96 as ultimate favourite, because of the synth, but nowadays the purity, power and simplicity of Lyon 2005 blows me away.
Too bad MK has stopped playing TR like this...
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Hey, funny, the exactly same thoughts about Vaison (then) and Lyon 2005 (now) from my side! But the last weeks I listen to Madrid 2010 and Locarno 2010 excessivly and both are great too, especially Locarno has a very powerful ending. But Lyon 2005 would be my best TR of all times. The whole concert is great, the only passalong show I still listen to regularly.
LE
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Madrid 2005 is great, but I love RAH 30th May 2005 even more and at the moment I think Manchester and Bournemouth 2010 are brilliant too! :D
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After watching that clip again I realize that MK really looked better on the last tour than back in 2005, not only because of the specs. He had a lot of good charisma and was goodlooking even with his back injury which was not easy to handle for sure.
LE
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After watching that clip again it realize that MK really looked better on the last tour than back in 2005, not only because of the specs. He had a lot of good charisma and was goodlooking even with his back injury which was not easy to handle for sure.
LE
Definitely! He's getting better and more charismatic with age! :P
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Hey, funny, the exactly same thoughts about Vaison (then) and Lyon 2005 (now) from my side! But the last weeks I listen to Madrid 2010 and Locarno 2010 excessivly and both are great too, especially Locarno has a very powerful ending. But Lyon 2005 would be my best TR of all times. The whole concert is great, the only passalong show I still listen to regularly.
LE
Is Locarno more powerful than Paris ? Paris is good but the outro solo is nowhere as energetic as Lyon 2005. And in 2008/2010 i hate the lack of crescendo and poweful first guitar solo after "rolling river"....
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I love Locarno too! ;D
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Wow!
Always my favorite song, and I love it when MK really gets into it.
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I actually think that Telegraph Road sounds best when Mark plays the Strat. The Pensa sounds a bit to soft on this song in my ears...
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Don't like the 2008-10 versions. Too much cittern and sounds like a karoke version after "rolling river". Why Richard Benett couldn't play a solo there I'll never know.
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I actually think that Telegraph Road sounds best when Mark plays the Strat. The Pensa sounds a bit to soft on this song in my ears...
So you prefer Alchemy? Love Alchemy, but i just love 96/05 versions even more -smoother yet outstanding solos
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Don't like the 2008-10 versions. Too much cittern and sounds like a karoke version after "rolling river". Why Richard Benett couldn't play a solo there I'll never know.
I fully agree! There is something missing after ...rolling river.
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I actually think that Telegraph Road sounds best when Mark plays the Strat. The Pensa sounds a bit to soft on this song in my ears...
So you prefer Alchemy? Love Alchemy, but i just love 96/05 versions even more -smoother yet outstanding solos
Yep, love Alchemy, but he also played the Strat on Telegraph Road in 2005...
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I thought 05 version of telegraph road was amazing. The outro was never played better. Sadly since then he has ruined it with the half arsed version he played on the last 2 tours. I won't and can't listen to those awful versions. Why doesn't he give up playing it if he doesnt want to play the lead parts all the way through. It's frustrating when you know what he's capable of.
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Watching Rome 05 right now, very nice multicam with soundboard audio from a radio broadcast. :)
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Why doesn't he give up playing it if he doesnt want to play the lead parts all the way through. It's frustrating when you know what he's capable of.
Probably because it is just an endorsement thing with Pensa. The same goes with Martin = Marbletown, Fender = Sailing/Sultans, and so on.
Sounds harsh but I really think it is not too unrealistic to think that endorsement is an important factor when it comes to constructing the set list.
:o
LE
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Don't like the 2008-10 versions. Too much cittern and sounds like a karoke version after "rolling river". Why Richard Benett couldn't play a solo there I'll never know.
I fully agree. I can't understand. MK is still able to make rather nice outro solos (albeit slower than in 2005), so I'm sure he would be capable of doing a small solo after "rolling river". "Karaoke" is exactly how it feels !!
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I really loved all of the TR's at the concerts I attended in 2010 and listen to them most days! I think it's good that TR evolves every few years and I really love the cittern and the longer National part on the present version. That doesn't mean that I don't like other versions. I love the 2005 ones, especially RAH 30th May and also Vaison '96. :)
I know you guys out there are going to disagree vehemently with me about this, but although I do like most of the 2005 versions - Lyon is not one of my favourites! :o :o
EDIT: OK, having listened to it again a few more times, I admit it's good! Perhaps a bit fast for fastness sake and lacking a lot of certain nuances that I love about other versions, but it's growing on me! ;D
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Hey superval, I would never disagree with you on a matter like this - but it made me thinking. I loved the 2005 versions when they were available more than any old version, even Vaison - the same with other songs like Sultans, Romeo and so on. Only Done with Bonaparte was as boring as always... :lol
But when the next tour came up, I liked it a lot - f.e. Sailing To Philadelphia is getting better and better, same with What It Is or So Far Away....
What I want to say: All these obversations tell me one thing: MK is getting better and better. The 2005 versions were longer and more rocking, but in my opinion the new 2010er versions are played and sung (!) with much more feeling. The way he interprets every single word on lets say Locarno or Madrid
is really breathtaking!
LE
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Hi LE! I agree with you. MK is definitely getting better each tour and I love the 2010 versions of TR - definitely played with soul! Also, Speedway and Marbletown were really breathtaking and are getting better all the time!
What I feel about TR is that it doesn't matter if it is not played so fast, as long as it is played with soul and sometimes I feel this is lacking in some of the faster versions!
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That version is absolutely stunning! MK, eyes closed, fingers flying everywhere... Love it. Played with soul and speed, I would say.
Can't help but feel that Mark and Danny are not completely in synch around 1.20-1.30 or so (when the different drum parts kick in in response to the guitar attacks), but they get it sorted out.
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I actually think that Telegraph Road sounds best when Mark plays the Strat. The Pensa sounds a bit to soft on this song in my ears...
So you prefer Alchemy? Love Alchemy, but i just love 96/05 versions even more -smoother yet outstanding solos
Yep, love Alchemy, but he also played the Strat on Telegraph Road in 2005...
I'm confused, did't he used the pensa on TR for some shows in 2005 ? Lyon 2005 does not sound at all like Alchemy, it sounds actually better and deeper to my taste, I thought he was using the pensa... (I don't know much about guitars).
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I loved the 2005 versions when they were available more than any old version, even Vaison - the same with other songs like Sultans, Romeo and so on. Only Done with Bonaparte was as boring as always... :lol
But when the next tour came up, I liked it a lot - f.e. Sailing To Philadelphia is getting better and better, same with What It Is or So Far Away....
What I want to say: All these obversations tell me one thing: MK is getting better and better. The 2005 versions were longer and more rocking, but in my opinion the new 2010er versions are played and sung (!) with much more feeling. The way he interprets every single word on lets say Locarno or Madrid is really breathtaking!
I think we are ideed fortunate, because with the 2005 passalongs recordings, the 2010 simfy recordings and the 1996 "Sultants of Swing" second bonus disk, we got the best of all worlds. To my taste:
- 2005 is very good for pure guitar rocking delight, even better than 2001 (for which no soundbard available, save for the radio recordings): TR is best in 2005 (and also 1996, but not official release); also WII is better without the flute/pipes and a somewhat faster pace than in 2008/2010. MFN is good too (but not as good as the mind-blowing 1997 Montserrat version. BLT is very good too.
- 2010 is best for more emotional, irish kind of tunes: STP is deeper than in 2005, so is BIA, and of course the new HFB, Marbletown, BR and Piper, etc. I also came to like SAN a lot with the pipes.
-WAM is still best in 2002 charity concerts with the DS-like band !
- 1996 is best for longer versions: I love Sultants from this era, yes I do prefer Jim Cox' piano over the "4-piece" band...
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I actually think that Telegraph Road sounds best when Mark plays the Strat. The Pensa sounds a bit to soft on this song in my ears...
So you prefer Alchemy? Love Alchemy, but i just love 96/05 versions even more -smoother yet outstanding solos
Yep, love Alchemy, but he also played the Strat on Telegraph Road in 2005...
I'm confused, did't he used the pensa on TR for some shows in 2005 ? Lyon 2005 does not sound at all like Alchemy, it sounds actually better and deeper to my taste, I thought he was using the pensa... (I don't know much about guitars).
The new Pensa was offered to Mark not sooner than during the italian part of the 2005 european leg, thus replacing the use of the Strat on TR from that point only.
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The new Pensa was offered to Mark not sooner than during the italian part of the 2005 european leg, thus replacing the use of the Strat on TR from that point only.
Thanks ! well, this strat sounds to me much more like a pensa a much less like the one used in Alchemy. But again, I know next to nothing about guitars... can only talk about my listener experience.
I know MK said in 2005 that "his current line-up played DS songs better than DS did", but to me this is only true of TR (and maybe RAJ if you don't like sax - but I do); for SoS, SFA and BiA I prefer Wembley'85; for MFN I prefer Montserrat'97 and for WOL... well, I don't care about WOL !
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Hard to see past an early line up with Pick on drums for Sultans IMO.
Heard the studio recording on the radio yesterday and it still sounds amazing. Pick's drums have a lot to do with that IMO.
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Pick is 63 today. Happy Birthday Pick! :D
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Pick was absolutely fantastic at least on those more intimate songs. Haven't really considered how he was live on the "bigger" songs, but I really love those early numbers. The Rockpalast show is a really great showcase of his abilities.
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The new Pensa was offered to Mark not sooner than during the italian part of the 2005 european leg, thus replacing the use of the Strat on TR from that point only.
Thanks ! well, this strat sounds to me much more like a pensa a much less like the one used in Alchemy. But again, I know next to nothing about guitars... can only talk about my listener experience.
I know MK said in 2005 that "his current line-up played DS songs better than DS did", but to me this is only true of TR (and maybe RAJ if you don't like sax - but I do); for SoS, SFA and BiA I prefer Wembley'85; for MFN I prefer Montserrat'97 and for WOL... well, I don't care about WOL !
MK was never going to say his current band can't play as well as his old band could; there's a kick in the teeth for you!
The Pensa used for TR on the 2005 tour was used from Milan onwards and is a different one from which he uses now. He subsequently used it for the outro solo on R&J on the 2006 tour and is identifiable by an ivory border that is absent on the one he usus now.
Personally I much prefer the Pensa sound but at least there was energy.
The 2008 - 10 versions with cittern are terrible and with Richard just strumming his part after "rolling river" and the rest of the band in cruise control, the song really drags at this part. Then when John stars picking the same couple of notes on his cittern over and over again it just seems to go on for ever. They gotta change it for the next tour.
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I dont like TR versions with cittern either :(
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I dont like TR versions with cittern either :(
+1
I mean, it's OK as a little ornamentation, but it just goes on and on, the same repetetive pattern. And you can't really neglect it either.
I really like the Basel version. Possibly a bit smooth, especially with Chris stepping into Kenny G territory, but the guitar is lovely jovely. So punchy, and Mark probably at his peak as a guitar player.
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The Basel 92 version was almost spoiled by the saxophone for me - too 80's! There wasn't a lot of it though and it is a great version of TR! :)
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I do prefer the sax on the 92 TR than the one on R&J.
I listened to TR Basel 92 and although a great version, Hamburg 96 remain my personnal fave recording of that one
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Listened to Hamburg 96 for the first time now. Not bad, but a bit too slow and unfocused compared with Basel. But to each his own :) Guitar sound is great though.
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Yeah, Sultans is phantastic from that Hamburg 96 concert - really breathtaking and nearly "violent" - but I do not want to get off topic... ;D
I remember exactly the moment when he started TR; I thought: WOW, now I will get too much, or "overkill" - I had no clue about the setlist before and was already out of breath after the Romeo & Sultans connection, I was not sure if I could really take in anymore "sensation" - and then TR started - and WAS great. Blimey, I think I will listen to that concert tonight... 8) 8)
LE
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hamburg 96 probably my all time favourite boot. :)
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The Basel 92 version was almost spoiled by the saxophone for me - too 80's! There wasn't a lot of it though and it is a great version of TR! :)
Actually it is more spoiled by Paul Franklin than by Chris. This pedal steel is everywhere and completely out of place...
And why the censored intro ??
And yes it is powerful, but almost too much. As if Mark was rushing it to show off; 1996, 2001 and 2005 are almost as powerful but with more soul and more respect to the studio version, yet less abrupt than Alchemy version (the only one we have on official video !! a legendary one, though).
My heart hesitates between Vaison 96 (with the very good use of the synth and the mini-orchestra) et Lyon 2005 (superb purity) for all-time-favorite. But 92 ? definitely not, even with the out-of-space solo...
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herlock, I agree about Paul Franklin in Basel '92. His pedal steel is very out of place and irritating. I like Basel TR, but it comes nowhere near being my favourite and it does seem that it is played fast, at the expense of feeling. Vaison is certainly one of my favourites and I know I am in the minority here, but I really do love some of the 2010 versions a lot - including the cittern! ;D
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Val,Val, Val :disbelief
Are you McCusker in disguise? :lol
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I woudl say that TR in 1992 was flawed for several reasons: weak Pensa sound on that one (better on the Fender), annoying Paul Franklin, felt a bit rushed.
As for the playing, of course MK was faster in those days but in my view he has developed his double-stops more and more, which are so integral to the Madrid playout. (For non-guitarists: double-stops are several notes played at once, think of the MFN riff...)
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Val,Val, Val :disbelief
Are you McCusker in disguise? :lol
Darn it, dmg - you've sussed me! ;D :lol
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I woudl say that TR in 1992 was flawed for several reasons: weak Pensa sound on that one (better on the Fender), annoying Paul Franklin, felt a bit rushed.
As for the playing, of course MK was faster in those days but in my view he has developed his double-stops more and more, which are so integral to the Madrid playout. (For non-guitarists: double-stops are several notes played at once, think of the MFN riff...)
I think the guitar sound was excellent, really full and punchy. Much more processed I guess than compared with Mark's later setups, and personally I like it when it is more organic, but it works.
As for his playing, he wasn't only faster, but he was more fluent. Nowadays he stumbles a lot, cuts corners, and very often he doesn't bring an idea to its conclusion when soloing.
I like the 92 version because it is very layered and dense, and I think that TR is one of the DS songs which shouldn't be made lighter and more transparent. It's one of them big songs, if ya know what I mean.
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I think the guitar sound was excellent, really full and punchy. Much more processed I guess than compared with Mark's later setups, and personally I like it when it is more organic, but it works.
As for his playing, he wasn't only faster, but he was more fluent. Nowadays he stumbles a lot, cuts corners, and very often he doesn't bring an idea to its conclusion when soloing.
I like the 92 version because it is very layered and dense, and I think that TR is one of the DS songs which shouldn't be made lighter and more transparent. It's one of them big songs, if ya know what I mean.
Yes... but in 2005 TR was as fluent as in 1992 and almost as fast; I can't understand those who say "MK is not the same since his motorbike accident". Yes, there was a drop in energy - but this is from 2008 onwards, not 2003... the drop seemed more lnked to age than anything related to the accident.
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I agree, herlock. The major different playing-wise was after 2005. I saw MK in Gothenburg in 2005 and Sultans was superb.
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By the way, you've all probably seen it, but the London clip on Youtube is great as well from 2005:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjJzlIedCuo
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Yes! This is probably my favourite TR of all! RAH 30th May 2005! :D Not too fast and played with feeling! :)
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Hey Superval, that version is also released as a passalong concert, right? I have the Passalong London 2005 show, but I am not sure about the exact date at the moment. I think I will give your favourite version a try, after all this reading about TR I long for some variation from Locarno, it is really mouth-watering in this thread for the last days... 8)
LE
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Hi LE, Yes, this is a passalong concert! I have it too!
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Cool, thanks! I remember a very overdriven, "cranked-up" Sultans from that concert... I will give it some showtime tonight! :lol
LE
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Yes... but in 2005 TR was as fluent as in 1992 and almost as fast; I can't understand those who say "MK is not the same since his motorbike accident". Yes, there was a drop in energy - but this is from 2008 onwards, not 2003... the drop seemed more lnked to age than anything related to the accident.
Just listened to the London clip, and it's very good - excellent drumming by Danny by the way - but regarding fluency, it is nowhere near 92. It just isn't.
I don't know why you brought up his motorbike accident - did anyone mention that? I think the reason why he isn't as fluent anymore is first of all because he is getting older and secondly, because he is getting older, he needs to practice more to keep his faculties "up and running". We all know that Mark was never much into practising, so unless he puts in the hours, his playing will suffer, which is very noticeable when he plays his earlier, more technically demanding songs.
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Just listened to the London clip, and it's very good - excellent drumming by Danny by the way - but regarding fluency, it is nowhere near 92. It just isn't.
I don't know why you brought up his motorbike accident - did anyone mention that? I think the reason why he isn't as fluent anymore is first of all because he is getting older and secondly, because he is getting older, he needs to practice more to keep his faculties "up and running". We all know that Mark was never much into practising, so unless he puts in the hours, his playing will suffer, which is very noticeable when he plays his earlier, more technically demanding songs.
The motorbike accident was not mentionned in this thread, but in others once in a while...
For fluency, have you tried Lyon 2005 ? It is much more energetic than London...
How do you like Alchemy version ?
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hamburg 96 probably my all time favourite boot. :)
Is hamburg better than Vaison ?
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No, I wouldn't say so. Vaison has a very unique "sunny" vibe, and the playing is really absolutely precise with great versions... Hamburg is a great show for me personalwise, but had some little mistakes here and there. Also Marks singing was somehow not that good as let's say in the time since 2008... But of course that is all my personal opinion. I would say Vaison 10/10 and Hamburg 8/10.
LE
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How do you like Alchemy version ?
Just listened to the Alchemy version again now. That's the version for me. Mark's vocals were so emotional, the guitar excellent and the band extremely energetic. Of course, I have a lot of memories from my teenage years attached to that version, so I guess my judgment is more subjective than usual :)
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I love the Alchemy version! It was so energetic, especially to watch - MK swaying his hips! ;D
So, my absolute list of favourites, at the moment are, Vaison '96, RAH 30th May 2005, Alchemy and, at the moment, I love Manchester/Bournemouth 2010, cittern too! (sorry dmg! ;D) Red Rocks 2008 is also on my list. I still play it a lot, although after hearing the simfy recordings, the audience noise is very distracting - no cittern on this, because John hadn't arrived yet, due to visa problems! :)
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Is hamburg better than Vaison ?
I've listened to Hamburg much more than Vaision. back in the 90s when bootlegs were difficult to obtain, you could pick up a few German radio stations here in the UK via the Astra satellite.
Somebody on the old Telegraph Road mailing list mentioned that the Hamburg show was being broadcast on one of the german radio stations. I recorded it via hifi stereo VHS ( this was before I had mini disc).
That audio was subsequently transferred to cassette tape and mini disc and played endlessly. :)
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Is Vaison really that good? Imho Copenhagen is better. That one is one of my favourites, great sound, heavy drums, clear high-pitched tones (listen to Imelda from that night!!).
And Hamburg... - I have several versions but sound is no way as good as on Copenhagen (or Vaison) and that ruins it a bit for me. (but has a good version of The Bug)
Regarding the 1992 versions, just listened to On Every Planet yesterday, and was surprised how good TR was. Yeah the 92 version do sound a bit overdone by pedal-steel, but Paul Franklin is more "in the background" in the ending solo I guess. And I also don't mind the faster rhythm of 92 versions, at least MK shows us what he is (was) capable of.
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Vaison I think has a slightly longer set as well?
To be honest I haven't listened much to Vaison and Copenhagen, as Hamburg has always been "my" memory of the 96 ntour (even though I actually saw the Aberdeen show.
Listened to Hamburg again yesterday and soundwise it is a bit rough. We have been spoiled by these Simfy shows!
Will listen to Copenhagen and Vaison again though. :)
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Just listened to Copenhagen '96 and the sound is very good indeed and a great performance too. I'm a bit like dusty in that I have listened to Vaison more than Hamburg and Copenhagen and I think my impression is influenced by what I listen to most and, then others seem not quite right - I mean, the little nuances that I love from Vaison, f.e are missing in the others! :)
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I mean, the little nuances that I love from Vaison, f.e are missing in the others! :)
Yeah, these little things are what makes some bootlegs special :)
I seem to recall there was some kind of a sound problem at the beginning of Vaison. Is it just my version or y'all's as well?
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Just listened to Rotterdam 96. That version too is pretty smokin'!
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Vaison (minus I'm the Fool) and RAH (partial show) 96 are pre FM
Bristol, Hamburg, Copenhagen and Stockholm are broadcast source
[I have edited out the term "FM" following boboDS's remark]
My vote for TR, The Bug (too much fun) and Cannibals goes to Hamburg
Darling pretty - Imelda - GH - MFN - BIA -> Stockholm
SOS -> RAH orHamburg
R
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Copenhagen is FM?? Surely doesn't sound like it. The cimbals and highhat are quite clear...
On the other hand Bristol or Hamburg are FM, and they sound like it.
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Just been listening to the 1st few songs of the Hamburg boot.
Mark is having so much fun, very talkitive. And the band have great
Energy. Fantastic powerful version of 'The Bug'
Cheers. BBB
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Yeah, it seems that the GH tour was the one where Mark felt the happiest. It suited him perfectly after DS got too big and troublesome, and he seemed very pleased about his new band. He played quite well too ;D
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I think he never played better - long solos, great guitar sound, much ideas, many changes, awesome setlists, ... phantastic concerts at 1996.. I am glad that I attended at least three of them...
LE
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Yeah, it seems that the GH tour was the one where Mark felt the happiest. It suited him perfectly after DS got too big and troublesome, and he seemed very pleased about his new band. He played quite well too ;D
Plus he was in luuuuuuv ;D
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Yeah, it seems that the GH tour was the one where Mark felt the happiest. It suited him perfectly after DS got too big and troublesome, and he seemed very pleased about his new band. He played quite well too ;D
Plus he was in luuuuuuv ;D
Aaargh you posted the answer I wanted to.
Nostalgia. The band sounded fresh and lightweighted.
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96 tour was the best for me. MK was refreshed and invigorated and in love... with his Les Paul!