Revelation about BiA album from bass player Neil Jason

[ds1984]

I'm happy to discuss the subject, even when people disagree.
I had no contracts to work on albums in the 1980's, no NDA's, I can talk about any time I replaced a band's drummer.
Sometimes I'm not sure myself. I recorded songs for an album, but by the time it was mixed and finally released I wasn't always sure if it was me any more. Yeah, often I wasn't credited.

As far as I'm concerned, studio recording was always filled with this "controversy" right from the invention of recording. Proper singers overdubbed actors for movies, musicians overdubbed everything, band musicians got replaced, then Pro Tools and Beat Detective came, autotune. The Doors recorded bass guitar in the studio even though their keyboardist famously played bass on his organ, simply because you need more low end on the record. It's not controversy, just achieving the best result possible as these things will sell like hot cakes in millions of copies, and be seen or heard by millions if not billions of people, so it has to be perfect.

Yep, I suppose we're talking about 2 vastly differing disciplines really. Live performance speaks for itself but studio recording is open to a far wider range of approaches. Personally I see it as more akin to sculpting....

It is said that the Rolling Stones have a couple of players, one of them a guitar player, playing behind the stage so, it seems that live there are some tricks as well.

And playing very approximatly on some nights?

Come on...

[dustyvalentino]

https://www.nme.com/news/music/kiss-9-1209494

[jbaent]

Roger Waters also use backing tracks in his shows, even for his vocals and bass parts, I remember a concert in Barcelona that I was close to the stage I listen to Roger´s voice and he wasn't at the mic, he hurried to the mic when he realised... and in other parts of the show you could listen some bass lines and Roger neither his other bass player were playing. After that I decided to not go to his next concerts. I totally understand you use backing tracks for effects, programings etc, but the main things in the songs, no, thank you.

[dustyvalentino]

Roger Waters also use backing tracks in his shows, even for his vocals and bass parts, I remember a concert in Barcelona that I was close to the stage I listen to Roger´s voice and he wasn't at the mic, he hurried to the mic when he realised... and in other parts of the show you could listen some bass lines and Roger neither his other bass player were playing. After that I decided to not go to his next concerts. I totally understand you use backing tracks for effects, programings etc, but the main things in the songs, no, thank you.

How do you feel about the guitar in Corn Beef City live?

[Chris W]

Roger Waters also use backing tracks in his shows, even for his vocals and bass parts, I remember a concert in Barcelona that I was close to the stage I listen to Roger´s voice and he wasn't at the mic, he hurried to the mic when he realised...

I've only watched a couple of his recent live films, from the east couple of tours....and there is more than one bass player, also other people in the band are covering vocals.
I have no doubt Waters is weak on vocals and not up to the calibre of the rest of his (superb) band with his bass playing, but I think other 'real' people are playing the parts and singing to back him up.
The live version of 'Time' for example. Waters isn't even trying to look like he's playing the bass. I think it must be someone else in the backing band.

[JF]

I'm happy to discuss the subject, even when people disagree.
I had no contracts to work on albums in the 1980's, no NDA's, I can talk about any time I replaced a band's drummer.
Sometimes I'm not sure myself. I recorded songs for an album, but by the time it was mixed and finally released I wasn't always sure if it was me any more. Yeah, often I wasn't credited.

As far as I'm concerned, studio recording was always filled with this "controversy" right from the invention of recording. Proper singers overdubbed actors for movies, musicians overdubbed everything, band musicians got replaced, then Pro Tools and Beat Detective came, autotune. The Doors recorded bass guitar in the studio even though their keyboardist famously played bass on his organ, simply because you need more low end on the record. It's not controversy, just achieving the best result possible as these things will sell like hot cakes in millions of copies, and be seen or heard by millions if not billions of people, so it has to be perfect.

Yep, I suppose we're talking about 2 vastly differing disciplines really. Live performance speaks for itself but studio recording is open to a far wider range of approaches. Personally I see it as more akin to sculpting....

It is said that the Rolling Stones have a couple of players, one of them a guitar player, playing behind the stage so, it seems that live there are some tricks as well.

And playing very approximatly on some nights?

Come on...

agree with DS1984. never heard of this thing about the Stones

[JF]

The Doors recorded bass guitar in the studio even though their keyboardist famously played bass on his organ

Bass players were credited on Doors albums. And they didn't play on all tracks.
some studio tracks were played with Manzarek on bass-keyboard

on the 1st album, Soul kitchen and Light my fire are the only two tracks on the album to feature a studio bassist.
others tracks are Manzreak on bass-keyboard
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/le-premier-album-des-doors-a-55-ans/

on strange days :  Unhappy Girl, Horse Latitudes et When the Music’s Over doesn't have bass player
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/il-y-a-55-ans-les-doors-sortaient-strange-days/

on waiting for sun, all tracks have a bass player (Douglas Lubahn)
on soft parade, Morrison hotel and LA Woman, idem (differents musicians though, but always credited)

[jbaent]

Roger Waters also use backing tracks in his shows, even for his vocals and bass parts, I remember a concert in Barcelona that I was close to the stage I listen to Roger´s voice and he wasn't at the mic, he hurried to the mic when he realised... and in other parts of the show you could listen some bass lines and Roger neither his other bass player were playing. After that I decided to not go to his next concerts. I totally understand you use backing tracks for effects, programings etc, but the main things in the songs, no, thank you.

How do you feel about the guitar in Corn Beef City live?

Same that with the loops in Speedway. Just a little part added. Musical decoration.

[JF]

Roger Waters also use backing tracks in his shows, even for his vocals and bass parts, I remember a concert in Barcelona that I was close to the stage I listen to Roger´s voice and he wasn't at the mic, he hurried to the mic when he realised... and in other parts of the show you could listen some bass lines and Roger neither his other bass player were playing. After that I decided to not go to his next concerts. I totally understand you use backing tracks for effects, programings etc, but the main things in the songs, no, thank you.

How do you feel about the guitar in Corn Beef City live?

Same that with the loops in Speedway. Just a little part added. Musical decoration.

taotally different.
in speedway, it's a loop that is already on the studio version
on Corned Beef city, it's a sample emulating the guitar that is on the studio version

[ds1984]

https://www.nme.com/news/music/kiss-9-1209494

You can even go back to 1989 when the band was accused of using a pre recorded loop for Charlie  Watts drum break during Rock and a Hard Place.
Just listen to different shows from one tour and you can judge what is really played live.

[dustyvalentino]

Roger Waters also use backing tracks in his shows, even for his vocals and bass parts, I remember a concert in Barcelona that I was close to the stage I listen to Roger´s voice and he wasn't at the mic, he hurried to the mic when he realised... and in other parts of the show you could listen some bass lines and Roger neither his other bass player were playing. After that I decided to not go to his next concerts. I totally understand you use backing tracks for effects, programings etc, but the main things in the songs, no, thank you.

How do you feel about the guitar in Corn Beef City live?

Same that with the loops in Speedway. Just a little part added. Musical decoration.

taotally different.
in speedway, it's a loop that is already on the studio version
on Corned Beef city, it's a sample emulating the guitar that is on the studio version

Correct. And it’s not just a little part. It’s the main riff.

[Matchstickman]

From memory I recall Guy even messing around with the guitar lick in Corned Beef City, giving it a scratchy DJ sound from re-starting it mid-sound...

Poor song, poor choice to pre-record a guitar lick for no reason.

"Ain't too pretty, corned beef city", is that supposed to be a joke in the sense of being deliberately ridiculous lyric-wise?

Don't get me started! 

[MagicElliott]

From memory I recall Guy even messing around with the guitar lick in Corned Beef City, giving it a scratchy DJ sound from re-starting it mid-sound...

Poor song, poor choice to pre-record a guitar lick for no reason.

"Ain't too pretty, corned beef city", is that supposed to be a joke in the sense of being deliberately ridiculous lyric-wise?

Don't get me started! 

For me it’s been one of the highlights of the live show ever since the Privateering tour though. When he comes in on the slide it’s one of the best moments of the night for me.

[Knut]

From memory I recall Guy even messing around with the guitar lick in Corned Beef City, giving it a scratchy DJ sound from re-starting it mid-sound...

Poor song, poor choice to pre-record a guitar lick for no reason.

"Ain't too pretty, corned beef city", is that supposed to be a joke in the sense of being deliberately ridiculous lyric-wise?

Don't get me started! 

For me it’s been one of the highlights of the live show ever since the Privateering tour though. When he comes in on the slide it’s one of the best moments of the night for me.

Bacon, egg and sausage
Double chips and beans
Tea and bread and butter

Mark recalling his breakfast from the day before. 

[Billy’s Tune]

Those lyrics are superb, they transport you to the working class life, to the days of workers presenting at the docks or whatever at 7am looking for work that day. That verse crosses generations. It’s rather clever! It’s a very English backdrop applicable from probably the 1950s to the 1980s. And perhaps again from the 2020s but that’s a different story.