A Mark In Time
Previous Tours => 2013 Privateering World Tour => Topic started by: Dutchessy on March 24, 2013, 09:32:31 PM
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Guy confirmed it!
I understand there WILL be recordings available during the 2013 tour.
Hopefully also video recordings...
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Are these recordings to be like the Simfy ones or are they to be free and sound good? ;D
I am personally afraid that the availability of these recordings will decrease the number of bootleggers out there as I'm sure it did last time.
Thanks for letting us know Dutchessy. :thumbsup
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I plan to record all my shows, no matter what. And I plan to purchase some shows
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I
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even then, i always like audience recordings as an addition to the official ones, different feeling. not better, or worse, just different
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even then, i always like audience recordings as an addition to the official ones, different feeling. not better, or worse, just different
Well thank you! ;)
totally agree
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No need to say I will also do my best to record all the shows I'm going to. ;)
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even then, i always like audience recordings as an addition to the official ones, different feeling. not better, or worse, just different
totally agree
Totally agree too; Soundboards recordings are great, clean, very clear, but they sometimes lack the "raw live" feeling you can get with an audience recording, depending on how it was mixed; and Soomlos and others have showed us last year that audience recordings can be of outstanding quality, unlike the common misconception...
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Recordings it will be, from every show, and the songs will be available in 320kbps on this stick:
(http://www.markknopfler-live.com/WebRoot/Store2/Shops/es639584/514A/059F/A3A1/4040/78D3/50ED/8960/5B15/guitars_big1.jpg)
http://www.markknopfler-live.com/
:)
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Too bad they re still lossless, but hey! Awesomeeeeeeee
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I just got the email! AWESOME!!!
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Is that really the thing?
WOW
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Just asked guy for the possibility of a lossless version. Maybe more of us should raise the topic for him...
Anyone wanna start a "cooperation"? Mail me.....
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Looks great!
But, they record all shows, except for the one's at the RAH!?
Will these recordings also be on the tracker?
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The rah shows will be recorded by many fans, no worries ;)
Maybe they plan a DVD???
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The rah shows will be recorded by many fans, no worries ;)
Maybe they plan a DVD???
My thought too! Maybe they have other plans for the RAH? :)
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The rah shows will be recorded by many fans, no worries ;)
Maybe they plan a DVD???
My thought too! Maybe they have other plans for the RAH? :)
That would be superb!
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In 2010 we had the option of buying the sticks after the concert, or downloading the concert later. Does this mean if we go to multiple shows, we would have to buy lots of guitar sticks, each priced at 30 euros. That would be quite expensive.
The guitar stick is lovely, but I would only want one of them - the rest I would prefer to download - it would be much cheaper if it is available. :think
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The guitar stick is lovely, but I would only want one of them - the rest I would prefer to download - it would be much cheaper if it is available. :think
Nicely said, Val!!
I, too, would like to see an option to download multiple concerts (at a steep discount!!)
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Cool idea.
Would be more cooler to have different guitar shapes. Gibson,Martin,Steel,Pensa etc...
To make it more collective
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Hopefully these will be offered at the concert venue as well. Also I'm hoping for a better mix!
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Cool idea.
Would be more cooler to have different guitar shapes. Gibson,Martin,Steel,Pensa etc...
To make it more collective
....and even more expensive! Nice idea though! ;)
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I'm not up on these techie things but what's to stop you organising a circle of friends. One person buys the USB stick for concert #1 and runs off CDs for the others? The second person does the same for concert #2 and so on. Everyone in the circle gets one souvenir USB stick and everyone in the circle gets CDs of every show. Putting aside the question of how easy that would be to organise (or otherwise), is that technically feasible?
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Val my thought exactly.
Yes just saw it too! 30 Euros each concert x 64 concerts= 1920 Euros And this means no torrents and free live from this tour. For 320 MP3. I might buy one just for the thrill of it, but I will certainly lose the rest.
twm, it is a nice suggestion, and feasible, but I guess it is illegal and off limits. The tracker do not even allow different recordings from shows that have been officially released.
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twm, it is a nice suggestion, and feasible, but I guess it is illegal and off limits. The tracker do not even allow different recordings from shows that have been officially released.
Yes it is illegal but they'll become available to download one way or the other, people will still upload them just like they did during the 2010 tour. I agree that the price is quite expensive compared to the previous ones.
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REPLY I'VE JUST GOTTEN FROM TORONTO:
Hi xxx,
The Royal Albert Hall shows are not included for contractual reasons. Sorry for any disappointment.
Aaron
MarkKnopfler.com
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30 Euro is very expensive !
They could make the recordings available in 2 formats : expensive 4 GB guitar USB stick and a more affordable download !
30 Euro with maybe shipping fees...
Could we organize us and share the concerts between us, after having bought at least one or two Guitar sticks ? It may be hard to prove the purchase...
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Too bad they re still lossless, but hey! Awesomeeeeeeee
I challenge you to tell the difference between 320 kb/s MP3 and CD 16/44 in a blind (A/B/X) test of the same material, whetever it is, even on the best audio hardware in the world.
Hours of study of the latest papers on audio technology convinced me of this simple idea that mastering is the only factor that matters in the quality of an audio recording.
A redbook CD can be made to sound fantastic, no need for hi-rez SA-CD or DVD-A, our ear can't hear above 20khz and 16 bit is all the dynamic range we will ever need.
As for lossy, you can definitely hear a difference with 128kb/s MP3, but 320kb/s is as good as a CD will ever be - at least for our ears.
Care for good mastering, not the media !! A good master will sound good on just about anything; conversely, a bad master will sound bad even on a 24/192 hi-rez recording.
As I already said regarding DIME, 24/48 FLAC files are overkill for a live concert; of course they are fine, but a 320kb/s MP3 will just sound identical, while taking only a 10th of its size and downloading time !
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Illegal? Do you mean unlawful? Which law does it breach? If you mean that it would be contrary to the contract into which you entered when you bought the ticket, the same applies to those who go in and tape shows. Moreover, when you buy the USB sticks on-line, it's not limited to the shows you'll be attending. As I understand it, you could buy USB sticks for each and every show, whether you'll be attending them all or not - and some AMITers will be doing just that, I'm sure.
Anyway, if it is technically feasible, then that's exactly what will happen. It is only a question of whether individuals choose to band together and do it in an organised way. It is the PRIVATEERING tour after all. It would a fine example of privateering, I suggest.
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I guess it has to do with the laws that do not allow you to copy the official CD releases. They sold the rights to this company and they sell it to us. twm, don't get me wrong, I don't like these things at all, but I am just stating what happened for the 2010 tour Simfy. Relatively, very few recordings turn up.
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Illegal? Do you mean unlawful? Which law does it breach? If you mean that it would be contrary to the contract into which you entered when you bought the ticket, the same applies to those who go in and tape shows. Moreover, when you buy the USB sticks on-line, it's not limited to the shows you'll be attending. As I understand it, you could buy USB sticks for each and every show, whether you'll be attending them all or not - and some AMITers will be doing just that, I'm sure.
Anyway, if it is technically feasible, then that's exactly what will happen. It is only a question of whether individuals choose to band together and do it in an organised way. It is the PRIVATEERING tour after all. It would a fine example of privateering, I suggest.
2103 will be. Never in a public way.
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1920
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I guess for the average fan-concert goer, who will buy 1-2 as souvenir it is a logical price. But for the average AMIT fan, who wants it all, it is an overkill. ;D I just have to change habbits. Being doing it since 2009, so another one to leave the building.
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The cost is far too high. The have pitched these out of the reach of most people and not estimated their market very well at all. I can't see very many casual fans spending 30 Euro on these at all, especially in todays financial climate. I think that they really need to revise their pricing strategy and offer and more flexible buyer option along the lines of what Val suggested if they want to make this scheme profitable.
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I guess for the average fan-concert goer, who will buy 1-2 as souvenir it is a logical price. But for the average AMIT fan, who wants it all, it is an overkill. ;D I just have to change habbits. Being doing it since 2009, so another one to leave the building.
I'm sure there'll be a couple of very average DAT-based audience recordings available somewhere down the line! ;)
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Remember what Simfy told me when they went bust: they had to pay very high advances to the artists and did not generate enough margins to recoup them. So, since it is a very small market, they are playing the high-margin niche strategy rather than the high volume-low pricing one. Time will tell if they were right...
As for me I think i will restrict myself to about 5 concerts (versus 10 for Simfy) after a careful setlist/performance quality analysis. This should be enough to get good versions of all songs... Actually I only want What it is, Yon Two Crows, and Kingdom of Gold (and TR if it is there and good, or TOL if it replaces TR - ok I am nothing but a dreamer). The rest is either already own in good versions or not much different from the albums :)
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Delivery 2.50
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Shhh! They are monitoring us dmg! ;D I am pretty sure they will be. And anyway I find less and less time with each passing year to listen to all these recordings anyway. But I wonder if the crisis is due to such things as well. :hmm About selling strategies, I can follow every logic (profit logic that is) but like Simfy that went bust, it seems that sometimes this logic is wrong, or anyway doomed right from the start. I wonder what happened to these Simfy recordings.
I was listening to a Chris Rea interview and he was telling how he likes to release many things together (studio, live, and movie) with a budget price of a single or double CD. Maybe this would be the best solution. Selling them in a bulk, downloading them or getting them all together in a handful of USD sticks, and getting a budget price for all. After all this will be only for the die hard fans, that can listen to approximately the same songs-setlists of 64 concerts.
And yes, 15 Euros every couple of weeks is a fair price, and you can buy them all in a year. 30 Euros is way too much. And I though it included p&p. Anyway, better start saving!
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I copy my own commercial CDs to play the CD dubs in the car. I don't trust the car CD player (a Sony) not to chew tthe commercial CDs up and, as I have said before I think, I copy them on a CD-Recorder, never on a computer, because computer CDs are a touch heavier and thicker and more likely to bugger up the car CD player. If mrs twm buys a USB-stick of a show, I'll expect to be able to put it on CD inorder to play in the car.
I am not a completist collector, even of Mr Bob, so iyt is not really an issue for me but I know there are people here who will wish to get every show in soundboard quality. Purchasing every available show on an official USB stick will be prohibitively expensive for those folk, not to say exploitative.
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Too bad they re still lossless, but hey! Awesomeeeeeeee
I challenge you to tell the difference between 320 kb/s MP3 and CD 16/44 in a blind (A/B/X) test of the same material, whetever it is, even on the best audio hardware in the world.
Hours of study of the latest papers on audio technology convinced me of this simple idea that mastering is the only factor that matters in the quality of an audio recording.
A redbook CD can be made to sound fantastic, no need for hi-rez SA-CD or DVD-A, our ear can't hear above 20khz and 16 bit is all the dynamic range we will ever need.
As for lossy, you can definitely hear a difference with 128kb/s MP3, but 320kb/s is as good as a CD will ever be - at least for our ears.
Care for good mastering, not the media !! A good master will sound good on just about anything; conversely, a bad master will sound bad even on a 24/192 hi-rez recording.
As I already said regarding DIME, 24/48 FLAC files are overkill for a live concert; of course they are fine, but a 320kb/s MP3 will just sound identical, while taking only a 10th of its size and downloading time !
talk to Neil Young, he would wash your mouth with green soap mon ami.
Also, I DO here it during the audience applauses and the cymbals being used. Elsewhere I defy do not, true. Still, why effing downgrade, why do the work if you can leave it in it's original format, not thaaaaat much larger in size. Also, why a 4gb stick for a 250mb sized lossy show?
All that wanna "coop" pls contact me.
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I agree with Herlock, was listening to a simfy recording the other day on a decent system and it was great.
Re the buy and share secretly circle - I wish we had thought of that last tour, ;)
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Delivery 2.50
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In Dylan World, there were several occasions on which collectors clubbed together (that is, pooled their financial resources) to "extract" recordings from those who had them but wanted large sums of money. I was involved in what was more or less the last of these. I was the point man (who had diret contact with the seller) and two friends (one on either side of the Atlkantic) got the money together. Why was it the last one? Because it only worked when those who contributed financially got a recording closest to source. Nowadays, with modern technology, that does not apply, so the incentive is not there.
Nevertheless, the principle of clubbing together to pool resources still applies. It just takes one person to co-ordinate the whole thing - and not on a public forum like this.
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talk to Neil Young, he would wash your mouth with green soap mon ami.
Also, I DO here it during the audience applauses and the cymbals being used. Elsewhere I defy do not, true. Still, why effing downgrade, why do the work if you can leave it in it's original format, not thaaaaat much larger in size. Also, why a 4gb stick for a 250mb sized lossy show?
All that wanna "coop" pls contact me.
Re Hi-Rez vs. CD, I strongly suggest you go and read this highly enlightening paper: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
Once you have, let's talk again about it and see which mouth will be washed with green soap :)
Re CD vs. 320kb/s MP3, there's no reason why the cymbals should be more affected than anything else by the compression. Ok, I confess I have a slight psychological preference for lossless agaisnt lossy, just to make sure I don't miss anything; but it is probably placebo, as I could never hear a difference between 256kb/s AAC or 320kb/s MP3 vs. CD.
I stick to my point: as long as you don't encode in shitty 128kb/s mp3, the mastering will do everything for the quality of your recording !
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I copy my own commercial CDs to play the CD dubs in the car. I don't trust the car CD player (a Sony) not to chew tthe commercial CDs up and, as I have said before I think, I copy them on a CD-Recorder, never on a computer, because computer CDs are a touch heavier and thicker and more likely to bugger up the car CD player. If mrs twm buys a USB-stick of a show, I'll expect to be able to put it on CD inorder to play in the car.
I am not a completist collector, even of Mr Bob, so iyt is not really an issue for me but I know there are people here who will wish to get every show in soundboard quality. Purchasing every available show on an official USB stick will be prohibitively expensive for those folk, not to say exploitative.
Of course I want to have them all (as usual). But this price is too much, after spending a lot of money on concerttickets, flights, petrol, hotels, ferries and so on. But I know myself, you never know where it ends ;-)
And TWM, it's not allowed to copy the USB's for others. It IS allowed to copy it for own use in your car, on iPod or other private use. I agree with you that cars eats CD's, I had to replace a lot of my old DS CD's after a couple of years in the car. Problem now solved, I have a harddisk in the car.
Because of this laws, which are european laws, the moderators will not allow people "trading" this in public on this forum. What you do yourself is fine by be, just be warned that it's illegal so if you get caught it's even more expensive.
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from this site:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/magazine/neil-young-comes-clean.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
"(Neil) Young gets most worked up when he talks about Pono, the music system he has developed. It is beyond the hobby stage: Warner Brothers has agreed to make its catalog available on Pono, and Young and Roberts are negotiating with other record companies and investors.
We walked out of the train barn past a Hummer that runs on biodiesel and hopped in yet another car, a
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Sorry to nit-pick, but why is it necessary to be logged in for "2013 Privateering World Tour" ? Shouldn't it be under "Privateering" then everyone would see it and all of the posts relating to the new MP3 sticks would be in one place? As it is there are now posts about the same subject in three different places. :think
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I'm with many of you guys;
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from this site:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/magazine/neil-young-comes-clean.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
"(Neil) Young gets most worked up when he talks about Pono, the music system he has developed. It is beyond the hobby stage: Warner Brothers has agreed to make its catalog available on Pono, and Young and Roberts are negotiating with other record companies and investors.
We walked out of the train barn past a Hummer that runs on biodiesel and hopped in yet another car, a
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Herlock I did read the page of the link you have posted, the first time you did it. I was amazed by the simplicity that such things were explained, and to tell you the truth I was quite amazed not by the results but by the sheer realization of them. Of course I am far from having a high-end system and as it is, unable to enjoy in full the resolution of audiophile recordings, but coming from a boombox in the 80ies I have noticed many differences changing from audio system to audio system. So your questions are valid. The thing that troubles me is the faith these companies put behind this system, by financing it. Perhaps it is just another trick, but then I wonder if the same applies to all the audio formats that were issued like SACD, audio DVD etc.
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One more thing. Here is an article I had not read before posting my previous post, and which I 95% agree with:
http://productionadvice.co.uk/neil-young-pono-pony/
The 5% I don't agree with is that the author says that there is no difference for the vast majority of humans, whereas it is scientificly proven that there is no difference for ALL humans - so I take the article even further :) but at least, this article makes more sense than Neil Young's bullshit about audio. 85% improvement ?? utterly ridiculous.
Neil, focus on what you're good at - making music. Leave sound technology and maths to the professionnals !
And even if you believe in hig-rez audio, there is already everthing you need with free FLAC players ! no need for another format, this is just a rip-off !
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Herlock I did read the page of the link you have posted, the first time you did it. I was amazed by the simplicity that such things were explained, and to tell you the truth I was quite amazed not by the results but by the sheer realization of them. Of course I am far from having a high-end system and as it is, unable to enjoy in full the resolution of audiophile recordings, but coming from a boombox in the 80ies I have noticed many differences changing from audio system to audio system. So your questions are valid. The thing that troubles me is the faith these companies put behind this system, by financing it. Perhaps it is just another trick, but then I wonder if the same applies to all the audio formats that were issued like SACD, audio DVD etc.
What they did with SA-CD is that they did good masters before releasing the music on SA-CD; even the CD layer of hybrid SA-CD often don't have the same master as the SA-CD layer, which makes comparing them utterly ridiculous.
Simultaneously, the "loudness wars" compressed the dynamics on CD mastering. All of this led people to the false conclusion that CD was crap and SA-CD was great.
But we all know that a properly mastered and properly dithered redbook CD sounds fantastic. Take MK's albums, for instance - British Grove Studio has state of the art equipment... Anything wrong with the sound on the Privateering CDs ? of course not ! they are just as perfect as they can be !
Blaming 16/44 CD for poor mastering makes me think of the old saying: "don't shoot the messenger"...
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Another interesting link herlock! Thank you!
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30 euros is a lot of money of course, but they think that people attend one show and buy the recording of that show, and doesn
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Perfect news i'll go for istanbul concert :thumbsup
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Actually its silly that if the usb sticks have 4 gb of capacity they put the recording in mp3... A wav recording of the show would be 2 gb more or less...
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If you consider that I suggested that this AMIT forum be used as a means to "trade" dubs of these USB sticks, then I have expressed myself badly. But you folk know one another. It is not beyond your wit to organise something.
The bootleggers will doubtless make some nice CDs of these MK shows and sell them at a huge profit. There may well be people on this forum who would buy these bootleg CDs and they may even be the same people who seem to baulk at the idea of sharing dubs of the USB sticks, I don't know. If your conscience prevents you, if you have scruples of some kind or if something else troubles you about it, that is absolutely fine. Don't do it. Nobody will criticise you. It's just that I think the unit cost is high anyway and that the cost multiplied by however many shows you want to get is out of this world. I merely pointed out that there is solution to this.
and, by the way, bootlegging is not something in which I have ever been involved. In terms of the extracting of that Mr Bob item I mentioned, it was entirely legal and above-board. What I had tracked down was owned by a company that had the legal right to sell copies. The unusual element was that it would normally have been sold to another company rather than a private individual. That's shorthand for saying that "big bucks" were involved. Hence the need to spread the cost. For that, the company provided three copies from their archive - one for me and one each for the two people who raised the money. When it first came, it had a slight technical fault. I complained and requested three replacement copies without the fault - and got them. This was an entirely commercial transaction. Nothing underhand at all.
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Far too expensive for what it is especially on top of the cost of going to a show.
Personally i couldn't care less about a guitar shaped usb stick.Probably costs all of 20p from the far east anyway.The equipment they have anyway so there is a huge profit margain on these could easily be 10 euros and they would sell more and make a profit.
Last time a few turned up on usenet I guess the same will happen this time.Anyway all the concerts will be the same more or less so really why would anyone want to buy more than 2 or 3 anyway.
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Far too expensive for what it is especially on top of the cost of going to a show.
Personally i couldn't care less about a guitar shaped usb stick.Probably costs all of 20p from the far east anyway.The equipment they have anyway so there is a huge profit margain on these could easily be 10 euros and they would sell more and make a profit.
Last time a few turned up on usenet I guess the same will happen this time.Anyway all the concerts will be the same more or less so really why would anyone want to buy more than 2 or 3 anyway.
+1
The guitar USB thing is just a gimmick and it doesn't bother me what the music comes in either.
You're right in the cost factor too. Since they record every show, it must cost them very little for this and they could easily sell this on for about
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Wouldnt be easier for MK team if they just record their own shows at the venue, and sold them directly? They setup the inear mixes every show for each musician, so they only have to setup another mix for the recordings, then during the show press a rec button, the show will be mixed automatically and they can sell it directly, without having to contract another third partie...
Accordingly to Simfy, the thing looks like they (MK management or whatever) make a lot of money if they do this with a third party because this third party has to pay in advance a lot of money to sell the concerts after.
Also the Simfy people told us that they didnt get why they dont do it by themselfs, as they have all its needed...
However, I
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There is another important thing;
If this campaign is a dissaster, we won
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Well, maybe if they made offers like "Buy three and get a discount" they will be more succesful...
Anyway there are other options that offer cds with their card covers and everything that make it cheaper...
Real cds (no lossy recording) with their cardcovers... AND CHEAPER!!!!
Look at this, Peter Gabriel recordings:
CD- 15 dollars http://www.themusic.com/search.cfm?encore=87&sidebar=encore_list&keyword=North%20American%20CD: (http://www.themusic.com/search.cfm?encore=87&sidebar=encore_list&keyword=North%20American%20CD:)
They also have a usb option with a microphone shape at 20 dollars.
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Myself also fint this expensive as I am on the "I want all the shows" mode.
I won't get hypocrit on the matter, I will buy some and get the rest otherwise. Just as simple as that
Strange that someone like Mark that is attached to "hi quality" he still don't sell his live show on Flac format. Already when issued by Simfy you were able to buy Supertramp lossless live cd.
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Maybe MK or his manager consider that he is so high profile that asks loads of money to the company that do this thing and the only way they have to get their money back is lossless and high prices...
If the same company sells different artists with different prices, the difference must comes from any factor...
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Myself also fint this expensive as I am on the "I want all the shows" mode.
I won't get hypocrit on the matter, I will buy some and get the rest otherwise. Just as simple as that
Strange that someone like Mark that is attached to "hi quality" he still don't sell his live show on Flac format. Already when issued by Simfy you were able to buy Supertramp lossless live cd.
Good point. Guy Fletcher - on his forum - is always harping on about BG being top quality this and that and mp3's being crap and tinny sounding, yet when it comes to releasing their concerts to the fans at considerable expense...
Something else to bear in mind is that the company dealing with this may just pay MK/PCM a certain amount up-front and then take care of the rest themselves, including taking all the profits (or maybe giving MK/PCM a percentage). This would include marketing, pricing etc. The folk at PCM probably have nothing to do with any of it, all they did was to look for a company who did this sort of thing and asked them if they wanted to do the MK 2013 tour. They said yes and they would look into it. Just a theory. :think
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let's hope that if they will film some show they will not release it on video-cd format ;D
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If the primary target group is people after the concert, a small file size is the best thing to use. Having the empty USBs, plugging them, fillinf them up is seconds and giving them. A bigger format might take a bit longer. But I guess they could offer it to the ones from home or as an additional download bonus.
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let's hope that if they will film some show they will not release it on video-cd format ;D
VCD rule over crappy VHS quality.
I guess Privateering Tour will be shot and issued on 4K super HD format.
But prior to this I enjoy the Montreux 2010 BR in glorious 3D ;D
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Myself also fint this expensive as I am on the "I want all the shows" mode.
I won't get hypocrit on the matter, I will buy some and get the rest otherwise. Just as simple as that
Strange that someone like Mark that is attached to "hi quality" he still don't sell his live show on Flac format. Already when issued by Simfy you were able to buy Supertramp lossless live cd.
Good point. Guy Fletcher - on his forum - is always harping on about BG being top quality this and that and mp3's being crap and tinny sounding, yet when it comes to releasing their concerts to the fans at considerable expense...
Something else to bear in mind is that the company dealing with this may just pay MK/PCM a certain amount up-front and then take care of the rest themselves, including taking all the profits (or maybe giving MK/PCM a percentage). This would include marketing, pricing etc. The folk at PCM probably have nothing to do with any of it, all they did was to look for a company who did this sort of thing and asked them if they wanted to do the MK 2013 tour. They said yes and they would look into it. Just a theory. :think
320kb/s mp3 is not crap.
It is a little less perfect than CD, which is perfect.
This being said it is true that on 4gb keys they could issue flac files, from which you could generate mp3 if you wish.
They might be afraid that it takes a little effort to get flac working on iPods and that people may be rebutted by this..
Oh well. I care way more about the mastering and mixing than the delivery format. For live rock 320kb/s mp3 is perfectly adequate.
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Myself also fint this expensive as I am on the "I want all the shows" mode.
I won't get hypocrit on the matter, I will buy some and get the rest otherwise. Just as simple as that
Strange that someone like Mark that is attached to "hi quality" he still don't sell his live show on Flac format. Already when issued by Simfy you were able to buy Supertramp lossless live cd.
Good point. Guy Fletcher - on his forum - is always harping on about BG being top quality this and that and mp3's being crap and tinny sounding, yet when it comes to releasing their concerts to the fans at considerable expense...
Something else to bear in mind is that the company dealing with this may just pay MK/PCM a certain amount up-front and then take care of the rest themselves, including taking all the profits (or maybe giving MK/PCM a percentage). This would include marketing, pricing etc. The folk at PCM probably have nothing to do with any of it, all they did was to look for a company who did this sort of thing and asked them if they wanted to do the MK 2013 tour. They said yes and they would look into it. Just a theory. :think
320kb/s mp3 is not crap.
It is a little less perfect than CD, which is perfect.
This being said it is true that on 4gb keys they could issue flac files, from which you could generate mp3 if you wish.
They might be afraid that it takes a little effort to get flac working on iPods and that people may be rebutted by this..
Oh well. I care way more about the mastering and mixing than the delivery format. For live rock 320kb/s mp3 is perfectly adequate.
Yes, the mastering is important. I didn't like the Simfy job at all.
I only wrote "crap" as it was the word I thought Guy used, but as I wasn't 100% sure, I didn't want to put it in inverted comma's. Not necessarily my opinion.
Personally I can tell the difference and even if the human ear can only hear up to a 20kHz ceiling surely having music that can go much higher is better because it has not reached it's capacity. It's like driving a car on the UK motorway (where the speed limit is 70 miles/hr) which has a top speed of only 70 miles/hr. You would be far better to choose a car that can do 130miles/hr, for example because it will cruise effortlessly at the legal limit. Does that make any sense at all?
The higher the ceiling or wider the bandwidth then surely the better, even if it is outwith the catchment of human hearing. And don't forget we lose out high frequency capacity as we age! :o
At the end of the day we can look at graphs, tables and stats and they prove nothing much - 99% of people know that! :disbelief It's really what we think is okay for our own ear.
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Guy said: "I cannot comment on that yet" about a CD recording question in RAH.
What do you think? :P
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Myself also fint this expensive as I am on the "I want all the shows" mode.
I won't get hypocrit on the matter, I will buy some and get the rest otherwise. Just as simple as that
Strange that someone like Mark that is attached to "hi quality" he still don't sell his live show on Flac format. Already when issued by Simfy you were able to buy Supertramp lossless live cd.
Good point. Guy Fletcher - on his forum - is always harping on about BG being top quality this and that and mp3's being crap and tinny sounding, yet when it comes to releasing their concerts to the fans at considerable expense...
Something else to bear in mind is that the company dealing with this may just pay MK/PCM a certain amount up-front and then take care of the rest themselves, including taking all the profits (or maybe giving MK/PCM a percentage). This would include marketing, pricing etc. The folk at PCM probably have nothing to do with any of it, all they did was to look for a company who did this sort of thing and asked them if they wanted to do the MK 2013 tour. They said yes and they would look into it. Just a theory. :think
320kb/s mp3 is not crap.
It is a little less perfect than CD, which is perfect.
This being said it is true that on 4gb keys they could issue flac files, from which you could generate mp3 if you wish.
They might be afraid that it takes a little effort to get flac working on iPods and that people may be rebutted by this..
Oh well. I care way more about the mastering and mixing than the delivery format. For live rock 320kb/s mp3 is perfectly adequate.
Yes, the mastering is important. I didn't like the Simfy job at all.
I only wrote "crap" as it was the word I thought Guy used, but as I wasn't 100% sure, I didn't want to put it in inverted comma's. Not necessarily my opinion.
Personally I can tell the difference and even if the human ear can only hear up to a 20kHz ceiling surely having music that can go much higher is better because it has not reached it's capacity. It's like driving a car on the UK motorway (where the speed limit is 70 miles/hr) which has a top speed of only 70 miles/hr. You would be far better to choose a car that can do 130miles/hr, for example because it will cruise effortlessly at the legal limit. Does that make any sense at all?
The higher the ceiling or wider the bandwidth then surely the better, even if it is outwith the catchment of human hearing. And don't forget we lose out high frequency capacity as we age! :o
At the end of the day we can look at graphs, tables and stats and they prove nothing much - 99% of people know that! :disbelief It's really what we think is okay for our own ear.
Higher sampling rates than 44.1khz and bit depth greater than 16 actually make a lot of sense... For the production process, where you are mixing many sources and want to make sure you do not loose any information with rounding and interference issues.
They do not make sense at all for the playback of the final product.
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I think it's quite remarkable that MK allows the first show of a tour to be made available as a recording. Normally, he has his safety net for let's say, 10, 15 shows into the tour - trying some things out, normally developing songs or deciding to ditch them. Remember the lots of songs on the US leg of the 2010 tour? From London on, it was pretty much the same set list. Maybe we will have a chance to get more song variety this time around. Will be tough to decide for which concert I will pay 30
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If the primary target group is people after the concert, a small file size is the best thing to use. Having the empty USBs, plugging them, fillinf them up is seconds and giving them. A bigger format might take a bit longer. But I guess they could offer it to the ones from home or as an additional download bonus.
The usb are delivered by post after the concert, not in the show, at least that is what I understand.
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Someone said it right, with the kick-off concert, the chances to get a show that might be a little longer is big enough to buy the first one on a stick.
I don't see the necessarity of pre-order, however.
As I will attend three shows only I was willing to buy all these three, but as London will not be available, I eagerly hope for a DVD/Blu-Ray release ( of the first night.)
LE
I am also glad that we have the possibility to buy music of the concert we visit and I will buy the music of Amsterdam, BUT just like the others I think the sticks are very expensive! Although the guitar stick looks great, I would prefer downloading for lower costs like we did after the Get Lucky Tour.
Btw just like LE I am not sure yet if I will pre-order or buy the music after the concert. Imagine when I pre-order and buy the stick now, while they decide during the Tour that we also are able to download the concert we visit! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Fieneke2/Emoticons/band.gif)
It is a pity that we aren
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Thanks for the links herlock, good to know that these lossless cork sniffers are wasting their time. ;)
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Thanks for the links herlock, good to know that these lossless cork sniffers are wasting their time. ;)
Cork sniffers! :think I smell a whiff of 16bit... :think...with a faint aroma of 24bit swirling around. ;D
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If the primary target group is people after the concert, a small file size is the best thing to use. Having the empty USBs, plugging them, fillinf them up is seconds and giving them. A bigger format might take a bit longer. But I guess they could offer it to the ones from home or as an additional download bonus.
I re-read again the site that sells the sticks and I understand that the usb sticks have to be ordered online, there is no chance to buy them at the venue as with Simfy recordings.
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If the primary target group is people after the concert, a small file size is the best thing to use. Having the empty USBs, plugging them, fillinf them up is seconds and giving them. A bigger format might take a bit longer. But I guess they could offer it to the ones from home or as an additional download bonus.
I re-read again the site that sells the sticks and I understand that the usb sticks have to be ordered online, there is no chance to buy them at the venue as with Simfy recordings.
That's perhaps a good thing as it means they are taking more care with the mastering process.
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Yes but it looses the inmediate after show effect...
Many people bought the Simfy sticks at the venue because they were so happy after the show that wanted to have it, but when you have to go home and put yourself in front of the computer... you are more relaxed and you could have second thoughts about it.
When it comes to sound, it would be better mixed, but when it comes to sales, maybe its not so good idea.
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Yes but it looses the inmediate after show effect...
Many people bought the Simfy sticks at the venue because they were so happy after the show that wanted to have it, but when you have to go home and put yourself in front of the computer... you are more relaxed and you could have second thoughts about it.
When it comes to sound, it would be better mixed, but when it comes to sales, maybe its not so good idea.
I agree with that point. I guess for us die-hards time is not of any importance but sound quality takes priority.
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I don't know how much time it takes, or how much it costs, to have a pro mix. But they state that they will be sending the next day after the concert, so it seems that the mixing will take 24 hours give or take. I really thought that they will have an on board mix and give the stick after the show. Many people will just forget it and have second thoughts and before you know it Simfy all over again. A fine idea down the drain. And this fetish thing would be larger for fans with CDs. A lost opportunity for them. Lets hope they make it.
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I don't know how much time it takes, or how much it costs, to have a pro mix. But they state that they will be sending the next day after the concert, so it seems that the mixing will take 24 hours give or take. I really thought that they will have an on board mix and give the stick after the show. Many people will just forget it and have second thoughts and before you know it Simfy all over again. A fine idea down the drain. And this fetish thing would be larger for fans with CDs. A lost opportunity for them. Lets hope they make it.
Yes, and the die-hard fan market that seem to be the ones who will be buying most (due to the lack of impulse buying from the casual fan at the gig itself) will be getting ripped off if we want to but more than one concert. One wonders just which market exactly are they aiming for. :hmm
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A nice suggestion was the CDs that Peter Gabriel issues. Pearl Jam did a similar thing 10 years ago. They issued many live dates on CDs with similar covers. The starting price if I remember correctly (for 2CDs editions) was 14 Euros, but after a couple of months you could buy most of the shows for 8 Euros, each. So maybe a CD edition would be better for every fan and a reason for the delay. But we are just repeating ourselves, in our close circle. Anyone to carry the message over?
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A nice suggestion was the CDs that Peter Gabriel issues. Pearl Jam did a similar thing 10 years ago. They issued many live dates on CDs with similar covers. The starting price if I remember correctly (for 2CDs editions) was 14 Euros, but after a couple of months you could buy most of the shows for 8 Euros, each. So maybe a CD edition would be better for every fan and a reason for the delay. But we are just repeating ourselves, in our close circle. Anyone to carry the message over?
A double-CD would definitely be the best solution. Perfect sound, physical package to keep, playable everywhere even for non-technical people, easily convertible into whaterver you fancy for portable audio (MP3/AAC/FLAC/...). Just need the time to burn them, but it does not have to be on the spot, in fact more time can allow better mixing and mastering !
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It's pretty dumb that you (apparently) can't pick up the USB-stick after the concert, but have it sent to you. I'm going to the Malm
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I guess that Mark already gave his instruction on how the show will have to be mixed.
I know already one : "San - Les Paul Richard - Level : 0.5/10 "
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I guess that Mark already gave his instruction on how the show will have to be mixed.
I know already one : "San - Les Paul Richard - Level : 0.5/10 "
:lol
Whistle de Mike - level: 10/10 :disbelief
Cittern de John - level: 10/10 :disbelief
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I can't read German, so I really am not sure what I would be doing when trying to order one of the guitar USB sticks, so I am reluctant to try it.
Has anybody found a way to read the order site in English?
And does anyone know for sure if we in North America are allowed to order? We couldn't order the Simfy USB sticks, apparently due to conflict with Warner Bros.
Thanks to anyone who can help me with this.
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Hi knopfling, here it is:
Welcome to the Mark Knopfler online shop!
Bleecker Street Entertainment presents high quality live recordings of all the concerts this year Mark Knopfler Privateering Tour 2013th
Here at the online store you will find the unique Concert MP3 metal stick, in the form of Mark's favorite guitar with suitable case. On the stick: The recording of a concert of your choice in MP3 format.
All shows are in the Multi-track recorded by professional sound engineers, complete from start to finish, including all announcements and additions. So you can get the concert atmosphere home in your living room and enjoy a breathtaking show again. Moreover, the Concert Stick is a unique collector's item.
Get your personal Concert Stick - just select the concert, Concert Stick into your cart and follow the ordering process step by step.
The delivery starts from the day after the first show in Bucharest on 25 April 2013.
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I can't read German, so I really am not sure what I would be doing when trying to order one of the guitar USB sticks, so I am reluctant to try it.
Has anybody found a way to read the order site in English?
And does anyone know for sure if we in North America are allowed to order? We couldn't order the Simfy USB sticks, apparently due to conflict with Warner Bros.
Thanks to anyone who can help me with this.
On the left hand side of the site there's an english and a german flag -press the flag you want for the language you prefer. =)
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"English" link :
http://www.markknopfler-live.com/epages/es639584.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectID=17088639 (http://www.markknopfler-live.com/epages/es639584.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectID=17088639)
And the link to the company site that produce the recording (sorry, les amis, german only site)
http://bleecker-street.de (http://bleecker-street.de)
Surprisingly, they are part of the founders of another german company called Music Networx later to be re-branded to...Simfy :hmm
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"English" link :
http://www.markknopfler-live.com/epages/es639584.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectID=17088639 (http://www.markknopfler-live.com/epages/es639584.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectID=17088639)
Unfortunately they forgot to translate the paragraph "Terms and Conditions"
Have I missed something or to pre-order the stick you have to pay immediately? I thought the charge would have occurred at the time of shipment
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Google Translate? Might not be 100% grammatically correct, but it'll give you an idea.
http://translate.google.se/#de/en/
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:lol The appropriately named bleaker-street considering all our comments regarding pricing, non-availability of downloads etc etc...
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I know it was a flippant comment but just in case anyone is in doubt, Bleecker Street is in New York's Greenwich Village. Back in the days of yore, the intersection of Bleecker and MacDougal Streets was reckoned to be the centre of the beat, American hip, bohemian and folk music scenes - where clubs, bars, coffeehouses, dives and other hangouts were found. There was even an album named after that intersection:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleecker_%26_MacDougal
And, yes, there is a "c" in the middle of Bleecker but it is often omitted in error. Even my otherwise very trusty Penguin street map of Manhattan gets it wrong.
Bleecker Street gets a mention in many a song.
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Thanks for the English link.
Guess I should have noticed the little flags, but I didn't see them.
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Please can someone ask them if the Setlist is included in the USB or the case that comes with the USB? I tried some days ago but didn't get answer. Maybe I have to write them in German :-\
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Why would you want to know? i don't understand. You will know the set list before them!
LE
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I think jbaent would like to tell them we expect a customized USB for each show.
I have here a couple of Simfy UBK keys and they all look the same.
No distinctive sign. :disbelief
At that price level (34
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I think jbaent would like to tell them we expect a customized USB for each show.
I have here a couple of Simfy UBK keys and they all look the same.
No distinctive sign. :disbelief
At that price level (34
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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But not on the stick itself?? If there is a file on the stick with cover picture, set list, that would do perfectly well enough, dont you think? For that money, Mark should deliver the stick to your house in persona...
I feel a little angry about the RAH shows. You cannot tell me that they make SO much money out of this tour, everything else would be pure nonsense. So if they sell more than 70 shows for 30
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no worries about RAH recordings amigo :-)
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NO, actually I don't want the Setlist included in any way...
My plan is buying the Bucarest USB and remain offline until I receive it, play it without being spoiled in any way.
If they dispatch the day after the concert it should arrive three days later :lol
That's why I want to know that, to be sure that I can remain unspoiled :)
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Is Paypal their only paiment method?
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There is also bank transfer admited.
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NO, actually I don't want the Setlist included in any way...
My plan is buying the Bucarest USB and remain offline until I receive it, play it without being spoiled in any way.
If they dispatch the day after the concert it should arrive three days later :lol
That's why I want to know that, to be sure that I can remain unspoiled :)
I like that plan Jbaent..I was planing to pick up the first show myself so I think I'm going to follow suit and stay offline...no setlist exposure..until I listen to it for the first time. :)
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I emailed the www.markknopfler-live.com about downloadable concerts and the exact content.
This was their reply:
Hello Klaas,
thank you for your message.
There will be no mp3 downloads of the MK recordings because of licence reasons. The recordings are sold exclusively as a collectors item on a 4 GB usb stick in the shape of the red Fender. There will be a collectors box for the Fender with a label of the concert date and venue.
The MK concert sticks can be purchased as pre-order or after the concert date on our webpage. There will be no pick up at the venue or sale of the sticks at the venue.
The sticks contains the audio recording of the full Mark Knopfler concert (incl. all intermediate speech of MK) in mp3 format (320 KBit/s quality).
If you need further assistance, just let us know.
Best Regards,
Carsten Brauer
Customer Service
Bleeker-Street Entertainment
www.bleecker-street.de
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"For licence reasons" :hmm That doesn't really answer the question. I wonder who is responsible for making the licence. That wasn't an issue with the Simfy recordings. :think
Thank you anyway Klaas. :)
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Thank you!
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Thank you Bleeder Street :thumbsdown
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Really don't get the licence thing at all. I mean apart from being able to count the items sold, easier, being physical and all, they could have obtained a licence for downloads as well. Or have they found a way to lock the MP3s in the USB?
Can't wait to see the case/box of the USB. It is said to be a collectors item but what does that means? One specially made for each concert, or just the label will be different? No photos of any of them at the site.
And of course there will be no recordings of the support groups and Ruth Moody's CD sounds very good!
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Really don't get the licence thing at all. I mean apart from being able to count the items sold, easier, being physical and all, they could have obtained a licence for downloads as well. Or have they found a way to lock the MP3s in the USB?
Can't wait to see the case/box of the USB. It is said to be a collectors item but what does that means? One specially made for each concert, or just the label will be different? No photos of any of them at the site.
And of course there will be no recordings of the support groups and Ruth Moody's CD sounds very good!
With todays cut-backs, the collectors box will be brown cardboard with protective polystyrene pieces! ;D
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You mean Scotch tape, eh? ;D
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MP3 protecting is not impossible technically, but I don
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MP3 protecting is not impossible technically, but I don
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If i do buy a concert i hope it wont ONLY play off the USB stick - i want to integrate it into my MK album collection and import into ITunes etc! I cant be doing with USB stick to play it on.... :disbelief
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Don't worry schmonka. Only small talk! :wave