On The Night - Ridiculously Bad???

[Chris W]

Sure.
It has not 'hit a nerve'.
My overall point is that some fan comments are over the top and not grounded in reality. They are purist.
People can make those comments, sure.... and I am equally able to push back on them.
I don't see why CE was heavily edited, while other much more complex songs apparently weren't.
The only things that would need attention were all the complex guitar runs - half way through the live arrangement and at the end. Mark, Phil and Paul traded solos towards the end, I can see them finding the best version of that (from several shows) and also maybe fixing anything that was fluffed.
I can see them finding what they thought was the best percussion solo from any recorded show, and editing that in.
For the intro, main verses and chorusses I can't see why there was a need to heavily edit.

[dustyvalentino]

As an aside I always loved Danny's little duck quack

[Chris W]

Oh yes....
Danny is combination of amazing percussionist and quite the comedian.

[jbaent]

Sure.
It has not 'hit a nerve'.
My overall point is that some fan comments are over the top and not grounded in reality. They are purist.
People can make those comments, sure.... and I am equally able to push back on them.
I don't see why CE was heavily edited, while other much more complex songs apparently weren't.
The only things that would need attention were all the complex guitar runs - half way through the live arrangement and at the end. Mark, Phil and Paul traded solos towards the end, I can see them finding the best version of that (from several shows) and also maybe fixing anything that was fluffed.
I can see them finding what they thought was the best percussion solo from any recorded show, and editing that in.
For the intro, main verses and chorusses I can't see why there was a need to heavily edit.

IT's not that CE was heavily edited and the rest apparently weren't, it's just that the comparation was made only with CE as far as I know. I seems to recall that another songs had been checked too but I'm only sure about CE.

I'm sure all the rest were edited more or less than CE, but I'm not sure in which extend.

[Chris W]

But it was claimed CE was more heavily edited than anything else:

There is a different work for CE on OTN, unlike songs like Heavy Fuel, R&J, The Bug, PI, OES, You and Your Friend, MFN, BIA, SR and Wild Theme, these are the same as they are on the bootlegs of shows that were used to create OTN,

[jbaent]

But it was claimed CE was more heavily edited than anything else:

There is a different work for CE on OTN, unlike songs like Heavy Fuel, R&J, The Bug, PI, OES, You and Your Friend, MFN, BIA, SR and Wild Theme, these are the same as they are on the bootlegs of shows that were used to create OTN,

If Bruno says that, I believe him. He's very good cheking the recordings.

[Chris W]

But I'm not sure he's right about the "you alright" shout at the beginning of the open air shows.

[jbaent]

But I'm not sure he's right about the "you alright" shout at the beginning of the open air shows.

LOL

Well, he checked it with the audience recordings we have, and that shout it is not in none of them, but it's true we don't have all the Nimes and Rotterdam shows, we have many, but not all.

[Chris W]

Maybe you're not following the debate?
I went to YouTube and the first two or three open air shows I found DID have the "you alright" shout (Copenhagen, Barcelona, Woburn and Zaragoza, bootleg recordings). I didn't look any further as a result.
Many other live recordings that are uploaded to Youtube don't start at the beginning of CE.

[jbaent]

Maybe you're not following the debate?
I went to YouTube and the first two or three open air shows I found DID have the "you alright" shout (Copenhagen, Barcelona, Woburn and Zaragoza, bootleg recordings). I didn't look any further as a result.
Many other live recordings that are uploaded to Youtube don't start at the beginning of CE.

English is not my mother tongue so maybe I'm missing something but, I'd say that the Bruno's mention to the Ye Alright shout is not that it didn't happened in any live concert but that it didn't happened in any of the Nimes and Rotterdam concerts we have in audience recordings and that can be compared with the CE in OTN.

Of course MK shout that in many bootlegs we have and listened to death since 1992...

[Brunno Nunes]

But it was claimed CE was more heavily edited than anything else:

There is a different work for CE on OTN, unlike songs like Heavy Fuel, R&J, The Bug, PI, OES, You and Your Friend, MFN, BIA, SR and Wild Theme, these are the same as they are on the bootlegs of shows that were used to create OTN,

If Bruno says that, I believe him. He's very good cheking the recordings.

I must mention that English is not my mother tongue, I will try to be as clear as possible, going straight to the point.

1- In my opinion, CE is the song that has undergone the most edits, precisely because it is one of the songs that contains a long open space for improvisations on Mark Knopfler's guitar and it was precisely for this reason that most of the edits were made. During the moment when Mark is creating a variation of guitar licks, the rest of the band basically leads the song in the same way in any show, the one who varies something on his instrument is Mark, he creates different paths in some shows, so, I understand that he sought to adjust things this way for CE in the release of Dire Straits' second live album, he created a perfect version based on at least two different shows (this is clear both in the video and if you listen to the shows Nimes and Rotterdam)

2- Songs like Heavy Fuel, R&J, The Bug, PI, OES on OTN are exactly as on Bootleg Nimes FRA 20.05.92, the same thing with You and Your Friend MFN, Brothers In Arms, Solid Rock
present in On The Night were always from 05/31/92 Rotterdam, Wild Theme, 05/30/92 Rotterdam, in none of these songs is there a mix of dates like in CE.

Walk of Live has a small edition and Your Latest Trick maybe did something in the studio, I'm not sure about that, for me it's the same as the version from 05/19/92, Nimes, it has the same percussion and drums part in the intro, the sung part is also the same as the OTN version, but the guitar is a little different, which reinforces the thesis that the guitar in this song was re-recorded in the studio.

3- So this was On The Night for 30 years, none of the songs had the audio or video editing treatment like CE. I point out that the greeting that Mark makes at the beginning of the show is something taken from some other show, just listen to any Bootleg in Nimes and Rotterdam in May 92, it simply doesn't happen at the same point as it does on OTN, on the other hand, it happens exactly the same At the shows in Paris in April 92, the salute is given at the same time as at OTN, the music is in progress...

I thank jbaent for recognizing my long-term research and analysis, I am so familiar with these recordings that I can identify which stage of the tour a recording is from based solely on the setlist or song arrangement, simply by listening to the recording.

[Knopflerfan]

Yes, I agree with you, dusty, about On The Night video.  I always found it over-produced/over-processed and much preferred the version I recorded from Channel 4 on Christmas Eve 1992.   I almost wore out that recording, but when I bought OTN I was really disappointed and thought my original Basel recording was much more honest.   Since then I found the more complete version from Basel.

Oh yes thats it, I remember being glued to the box on Christmas Eve 1992 watching that!  Remember that well! The On the night film in comparison to that is very lame! Like you I have the complete Basel DVD now which is played and played time and again!

[ds1984]

At the time of release I was happy to get this top mixed live recording, only being disappointed by the fact that it was not the full show.

[mariosboss]

Neil Dorfsman was heavily involved in the making of 'Flowers In The Dirt' the McCartney album I played on.
It also sounds too 'perfect'. Heavily manipulated/processed acoustic drums.
Mark obviously had a choice on OTN and agreed to go with that vision of perfection.
I like and am proud of Basel too.
I just think there is too much OTT language in these discussions - like a record being 'phoney', and artists being 'ashamed' of their live recordings etc..

I mean the title too - ridiculously bad?
No, it is not to your taste, as 'bad' is subjective and one person's ridiculously bad is another person's ridiculously great. Either way it's more of an opinion than a fact.

I 100% agree and it was kind of the point I was making in my original way too long post. The title is OTT to say the least. I thought your drumming was fitting and extremely exhilarating on those songs (ironic that perhaps you aren't a fan of that hard-hitting heavy rock and the sound in general and Knopfler never revisited it after 92/93, which makes it even more impressive on both accounts.) The recordings I think are a testament to the time. Very fitting, very stadium rock, but still technically brilliant. Look many of you on this forum may not like bands like Foo Fighters, RHCP and then poppier artists like Coldplay (I mean I certainly don't like Coldplay, too bland) but musically OTN was as hard hitting as some of those stadium rock bands i've mentioned and certainly more complex than all of them in terms of arrangements.

Interesting about the Flowers In The Dirt Album....

[mariosboss]

The On Every Street Album didn't particularly have any exciting drum licks or sounds, Calling Elvis aside, that was quality in terms of percussion, the end of Heavy Fuel obviously had a few fills.... that's not to say that drum fills are the key to an album but a bit like the previous album it was Knopfler's craft that stood out. Even if the likes of Jeff Porcaro and Manu Kache featured.

Have to disagree here, OES still has the best drum sound on any DS/MK record to date. They are so well balanced, have a really big and punchy sound. And the playing of course, just sublime. They did use samples for some of the mix but that’s just one of the studio tricks you do. This is what Guy should have aimed for in the new mixes but we just got bland results. Oh well.

Actually I think you are spot on and I think my wording was poor. I wasn't overly keen on a fair few of the songs, playing it safe and of course accomodating the songs, but perhaps my thinking is they were weaker than previous DS songs. However you are right the drum sound was exceptional. Porcaro and Kache did extremely well especially on songs like Heavy Fuel, Calling Elvis, the fill towards the end of On Every Street when the drums come in, Planet of New Orleans....
I totally agree with your last sentence regarding bland results... i'm not really a fan of most of the drumming on MK's solo stuff, not to say it isn't good, i'm sure it's outstanding but I prefer hard hitters.