A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: dustyvalentino on September 05, 2023, 10:03:51 AM
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Lengthy Ed Bicknell interview covering his whole career - DS don't enter the conversation until 90 minutes in so skip ahead if that's all you want to hear!
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2SjCIemyt4JkrAbdu5kpTl?si=4ba831635a804968
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Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup
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Thanks so much. I went to the the DS section (not finished yet), but I LOVE listening to Ed. He has such a way with words and great storytelling skills. He is the one who should have written the story of DS.
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Utterly fascinating interview.
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Thank you, dusty, for this interview. I went straight in to the DS part and have been glued to it for the whole time - I have only just finished.
Ed was so interesting to listen to and I enjoyed it all. I just wish it could have gone on a bit longer into the transition with the solo band.
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Thank you, dusty, for this interview. I went straight in to the DS part and have been glued to it for the whole time - I have only just finished.
Ed was so interesting to listen to and I enjoyed it all. I just wish it could have gone on a bit longer into the transition with the solo band.
I could have listened to Ed talk for ten hours straight. There were a couple of places where he was just about getting into some interesting stuff where the interviewer interrupted. Other than that I loved everything about it. Ed may be very candid and direct, but he seems fair. And to remember all those details and figures! I loved the bit about Mark using a blackboard during rehearsals ;D
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A lot of interesting stuff for us to discuss.
He clearly was not a fan of David, seemed delighted that he left and slagged off Sacred Loving.
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I always wondered why Sid McGinnis is always credited by playing in Making Movies but he's not credited in the record itself.
Not only John mentioned him in his book but now by Ed in this interview.
I always thought that Espresso love and Hand in hand have some guitar riffs that doesn't sound Knopfleresques at all.
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I always wondered why Did McGinnis is always credited by playing in Making Movies but he's not credited in the record itself.
Not only John mentioned him in his book but now by Ed in this interview.
I always thought that Espresso love and Hand in hand have some guitar riffs that doesn't sound Knopfleresques at all.
I have the same doubts, I talked about that in my Expresso love chronicle : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/une-chanson-a-la-loupe-expresso-love-de-dire-straits/#Sid_McGinnis_joue-t-il_sur_la_version_studio
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I always wondered why Did McGinnis is always credited by playing in Making Movies but he's not credited in the record itself.
Not only John mentioned him in his book but now by Ed in this interview.
I always thought that Espresso love and Hand in hand have some guitar riffs that doesn't sound Knopfleresques at all.
I have the same doubts, I talked about that in my Expresso love chronicle : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/une-chanson-a-la-loupe-expresso-love-de-dire-straits/#Sid_McGinnis_joue-t-il_sur_la_version_studio
here is Deepl's translation of that part of my chronicle
two solutions :
1) Either Sid McGinnis only played "backing tracks" to allow the other musicians to set up their parts, then Mark re-recorded all the guitars, so it's really only him you hear on the album's final mix.
Or
2) Sid McGinnis played on one or more tracks, and the production company "omitted" to credit him, following disagreements over his financial demands.
We'll probably never know the whole story. On the face of it, I'm leaning towards the first solution. BUT:
In 1985, during an appearance on David Letterman's show, Mark Knopfler played Expresso Love, not with Dire Straits, but accompanied by the show's backing band... which included Sid McGinnis. Notably, on that day, the solo was played in the same way as the studio version, i.e. with two harmonized guitars, played by Mark and Sid... whereas with Dire Straits, the song had never been played live in this way.
https://youtu.be/XcckppC_SWA
Why play it this way, on this very day, in the presence of Sid McGinnis? Was it a nod to his "participation" on the album? Would he be playing a duet with Mark on the studio version? The question remains unanswered, and I'll always be in doubt...
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seen this before. but forgotten, and unclear then that Sid played in that band. they did seem to have a good "relationship" there on stage? weird story with that guy. did he ever do an interview??
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Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
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Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
I actually doubt it, expensive to film and they just needed a few clips for the video.
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Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
I actually doubt it, expensive to film and they just needed a few clips for the video.
Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
But they are taken from different moments of the show, I mean different music, or that suggests foram feitas filmagens diverse
A long time ago I analyzed the images of the band on stage in the MFN video and I noticed some interesting things, there were many cameras from different angles filming the whole band and the most interesting thing is that looking calmly you can see that they filmed other moments from the show and we did the mix, because we get to see scenes of Mark and John wearing different clothes, different, but definitely, on the same show. There is a short scene where John wears his red jacket (certainly a scene early in the show), but most of him is wearing a white tank top, towards the end of the show when MFN is playing. The scene that shows Mark without the dark blue blazer and John with the white shirt, surely is in Solid Rock or Going Home, end of the show, this implies that a good part of the show has been recorded, who knows in its entirety. maybe...
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Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
I actually doubt it, expensive to film and they just needed a few clips for the video.
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Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
I actually doubt it, expensive to film and they just needed a few clips for the video.
Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
But they are taken from different moments of the show, I mean different music, or that suggests foram feitas filmagens diverse
A long time ago I analyzed the images of the band on stage in the MFN video and I noticed some interesting things, there were many cameras from different angles filming the whole band and the most interesting thing is that looking calmly you can see that they filmed other moments from the show and we did the mix, because we get to see scenes of Mark and John wearing different clothes, different, but definitely, on the same show. There is a short scene where John wears his red jacket (certainly a scene early in the show), but most of him is wearing a white tank top, towards the end of the show when MFN is playing. The scene that shows Mark without the dark blue blazer and John with the white shirt, surely is in Solid Rock or Going Home, end of the show, this implies that a good part of the show has been recorded, who knows in its entirety. maybe...
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Here
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It's just one more curiosity that I never published and I thought it appropriate to do it here now. It doesn't mean much, but it shows that they also filmed other songs from the concert in Budapest at the beginning of the BIA tour 85.
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Brunno you really know your stuff, thanks for that info. So we can conclude with some certainty at the very least different parts of the concert were filmed, if not the whole thing.
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So much to chew over. Brilliant and entertaining storyteller.
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It's just one more curiosity that I never published and I thought it appropriate to do it here now. It doesn't mean much, but it shows that they also filmed other songs from the concert in Budapest at the beginning of the BIA tour 85.
Interesting stuff, it could just be two songs though!
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An excellent interview and it backs up what Pick Withers has also said in the past regarding Dave Knopfler. I could be wrong but didn't John also mention it in the book (Pick and Mark the outstanding musicians but John didn't put himself in that bracket as well as Dave?)
Regarding Sid McGinnes this is old news. He played on Making Movies and some of his work is quite exciting. Expresso Love for example, superb. In regards to crediting him there are many many many albums from all eras that for one reason or another don't give full credits to the performers. Could be related to previous contracts, the way the person is paid, to protect the brand. This is probably an example of Dire Straits just keeping it simple. No need to credit other musicians if you pay them a flat fee and Sid probably appeared on numerous albums from other artists anyway. Most session musicians aren't credited anyway on albums. There can't have been any bad blood hence the excellent performance on Letterman. Suprised that the exceptional Hal Lindes didn't try to emulate Sid's parts but remember the band was a dictactorship lead by Knopfler, so he may have wanted Lindes to give something a bit different. What I will say is from the early peformances with the american in the band (1980-81) he was nowhere near loud enough in the mix. This was sort of rectified by the time Alchemy came out and it had to be during the massive Brothers In Arms tour.
Also It's actually quite common for debut albums to not feature the respective bands drummer, due to them being very green. Loads of examples, where session musicians (or even drum machines) have replaced the original drummers, but there's no need to mention it in the sleeve. Makes the respective drummer look bad or it just could be due to contactual reasons. Obviously Pick is all over the first three albums but sadly barely plays on Love Over Gold.
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Pick barely plays on LOG?? who plays, then?
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Actually looks like there is a great vibe between MK and Sid McGinnis in that video.
Who knows what happened, he is mentioned in the Michael Oldfield book, then John mentions him too and now Ed Bicknell so it seems that is very likely Sid played in MM but strange he's not credited while Roy Bittan is...
By the way, I saw Sid playing with Peter Gabriel in a Rockpalast from his first solo tour as well.
I'm wishing Ed Bicknell writes a biography not only for DS or MK but because everything he knows about music, all his quotes in Led Zeppelin and Peter Grant books are gold, like when he and Peter Grant scared to death Paul Crockford during the first NHB tour!
Read it here: https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=2347.msg152892#msg152892
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Pick barely plays on LOG?? who plays, then?
He means you can't listen the Pick we were used to, as he wasn't playing on his usual style and sounded like any other drummer would sound, not in his usual style.
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Pick barely plays on LOG?? who plays, then?
He means you can't listen the Pick we were used to, as he wasn't playing on his usual style and sounded like any other drummer would sound, not in his usual style.
OK, thanks!
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Pick barely plays on LOG?? who plays, then?
He means you can't listen the Pick we were used to, as he wasn't playing on his usual style and sounded like any other drummer would sound, not in his usual style.
OK, thanks!
No sorry that's not what I meant although you are right he wasn't playing his usual style because a lot of the album involved drum programming. Sorry I thought that was common knowledge. I mean Love Over Gold IS my favourite album of DS and look i'm no big fan of drum programming but listen to Telegraph Road and Industrial Disease. The "Dr Parkinson" part.... come on... listen to it properly. It's not Pick playing on a kit, or if he is it was only partially recorded on the kit and then programmed. The only songs that sound live are the title track Love Over Gold and one of my favourite songs of all time It Never Rains. But Telegraph Road and Industrial Disease, nah sorry to break the bad news. Pick was still involved of course. But that was partly the reason he left. His role diminished. The band were expanding and broadening the sound. The landscape had changed. The band were beginning to get louder and a different beast. Pick was also getting a bit tired of Knopfler. He still has lots of respect for him but that's how it is sometimes. Best wishes to you all this weekend.
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It's true that TR sounds much more live on Alchemy (well, I that's what a concert is about 😂), with Terry doing a fantastic job on drums. On the album and even on the early 1981 versions Pick sounds a bit dry...
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
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I am surprised to see that hunter has left the forum. I enjoyed reading his contributions and I'm sorry he is no longer here. Sorry to be off-topic btw!
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I am surprised to see that hunter has left the forum. I enjoyed reading his contributions and I'm sorry he is no longer here. Sorry to be off-topic btw!
Indeed/ Sometimes people just need a digital detox, hopefully Hunter returns at some point. :)
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I am surprised to see that hunter has left the forum. I enjoyed reading his contributions and I'm sorry he is no longer here. Sorry to be off-topic btw!
Indeed/ Sometimes people just need a digital detox, hopefully Hunter returns at some point. :)
indeed Dusty. that is exactly what happened- Hunter was not dissatisified on here, but wanted to get rid of various digital distractions of life, which for him included, besides the usual FB, insta etc. also this forum. so he requested me to delete his account (but i decided to leave his posts active)
he will be happy to read, as a guest, your comment Val.
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I am surprised to see that hunter has left the forum. I enjoyed reading his contributions and I'm sorry he is no longer here. Sorry to be off-topic btw!
His posts were interesting and noteworthy - not the typical Knopfler worship, which is pointless. I hope he'll be back.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
Yeah, I hate doubting anyone but other than the Dr Parkinson bit it really sounds like real drums to me on LoG, would be interesting to hear what Pick has to say about it. The drum machines available at the time were quite primitive.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
Yeah, I hate doubting anyone but other than the Dr Parkinson bit it really sounds like real drums to me on LoG, would be interesting to hear what Pick has to say about it. The drum machines available at the time were quite primitive.
yes I always wondered what exactly meant Ed Walsh's job "synth program"
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I remember an interview were Pick said that recording Industrial disease was a painful and non-gratifying experience for him.
And yes, he said that Mark's intention was to put more and more keyboards (1 keyboard for the OL tour, 2 were planned for the LOG tour) and that was diminishing the drums's role and he had had enough...
Pick was brillant on the first 3 albums and the first 2 tours. On the OL tour he seems a bit out of place - with the new, longer version of Sultans, you can hear that it's not his thing, and that Terry would do a much better job in this new stadium area.
Pick was more subtle, Terry was more powerful, both were great, and by the way they are the best of friends today...
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
Yeah, I hate doubting anyone but other than the Dr Parkinson bit it really sounds like real drums to me on LoG, would be interesting to hear what Pick has to say about it. The drum machines available at the time were quite primitive.
yes I always wondered what exactly meant Ed Walsh's job "synth program"
Just had a quick look at Ed Walsh's credits online, he seems to be a synth player rather than a drum programmer. Could be him playing the synths at the start of Telegraph Road.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1TBnAlRuJM
From 39 mins, hear and see Pick tell the story himself.
Pick plays real drums along to a drum machine that played the industrial hissing sounds etc.
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Well, playing alone a prerecorded programmed drums is not the same than don't play drums I'm songs...
That's very usual since machines like the Lin drums appeared as they allow musicians to do demos just programming and then real musicians play real drums over that demos programmed.
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Well, playing alone a prerecorded programmed drums is not the same than don't play drums I'm songs...
Correct. Although anyone can listen to Love Over Gold and tell it's real drums and not a drum machine, it's quite obvious.
That's very usual since machines like the Lin drums appeared as they allow musicians to do demos just programming and then real musicians play real drums over that demos programmed.
Yes although as Pick says, the drum machine wasn't used that way in this instance, it was used to get "industrial" type sounds for the track.
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Well, playing alone a prerecorded programmed drums is not the same than don't play drums I'm songs...
Correct. Although anyone can listen to Love Over Gold and tell it's real drums and not a drum machine, it's quite obvious.
That's very usual since machines like the Lin drums appeared as they allow musicians to do demos just programming and then real musicians play real drums over that demos programmed.
Yes although as Pick says, the drum machine wasn't used that way in this instance, it was used to get "industrial" type sounds for the track.
Didn't listened to the interview as I did back in time and more or less remember what he said.
I remember having a discussion about the sound of drums in "freeway flyer" from Local Hero who a friend of mine says is a Linn Drum machine and I always say that is Terry playing alone a prerecorded Linn recorded track, and probably equalised to sound as dry as the machine itself!
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Well, playing alone a prerecorded programmed drums is not the same than don't play drums I'm songs...
Correct. Although anyone can listen to Love Over Gold and tell it's real drums and not a drum machine, it's quite obvious.
That's very usual since machines like the Lin drums appeared as they allow musicians to do demos just programming and then real musicians play real drums over that demos programmed.
Yes although as Pick says, the drum machine wasn't used that way in this instance, it was used to get "industrial" type sounds for the track.
Didn't listened to the interview as I did back in time and more or less remember what he said.
I remember having a discussion about the sound of drums in "freeway flyer" from Local Hero who a friend of mine says is a Linn Drum machine and I always say that is Terry playing alone a prerecorded Linn recorded track, and probably equalised to sound as dry as the machine itself!
on Freeway flyer Terry is credited
but in Going Home he isn't. so I wonder if there is a drum machine in GH but not on local Hero's other tracks ? :think
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Interesting question!
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Well, playing alone a prerecorded programmed drums is not the same than don't play drums I'm songs...
Correct. Although anyone can listen to Love Over Gold and tell it's real drums and not a drum machine, it's quite obvious.
That's very usual since machines like the Lin drums appeared as they allow musicians to do demos just programming and then real musicians play real drums over that demos programmed.
Yes although as Pick says, the drum machine wasn't used that way in this instance, it was used to get "industrial" type sounds for the track.
Didn't listened to the interview as I did back in time and more or less remember what he said.
I remember having a discussion about the sound of drums in "freeway flyer" from Local Hero who a friend of mine says is a Linn Drum machine and I always say that is Terry playing alone a prerecorded Linn recorded track, and probably equalised to sound as dry as the machine itself!
on Freeway flyer Terry is credited
but in Going Home he isn't. so I wonder if there is a drum machine in GH but not on local Hero's other tracks ? :think
In GH the drummer is .. can't remember his name. The one who play nowadays for the Stones
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In GH the drummer is .. can't remember his name. The one who play nowadays for the Stones
Steve Jordan is credited on the sleeve for Boomtown, but not GH.
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In GH the drummer is .. can't remember his name. The one who play nowadays for the Stones
Steve Jordan is credited on the sleeve for Boomtown, but not GH.
yes exactly.
could it be a typo ?
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In GH the drummer is .. can't remember his name. The one who play nowadays for the Stones
Steve Jordan is credited on the sleeve for Boomtown, but not GH.
I read it somewhere, a MK interview, maybe by John, maybe even on John's book, that GH was recorded in NY, and the musicians playing in that tune were the Michael Brecker, Steve Jordan and can't remember if Neil Jason or Tony Levin on bass.
Can't remember now, but I would say that Boomtown has a kind of programmed rythm, can't remember any drums on that one.
Might check it again.
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In GH the drummer is .. can't remember his name. The one who play nowadays for the Stones
Steve Jordan is credited on the sleeve for Boomtown, but not GH.
yes exactly.
could it be a typo ?
Could easily be a typo. I listened to an interview with Steve Nathan and he was bemoaning the fact that some of his best performances were credited to other players.
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I confused, as usual in me, Boomtown with Smooching!
There is a wonderful drums in Boomtown, definitely Steve Jordan!
Nobody is credited as a drummer on GH which is ridiculous, I don't think MK programmed it with the Linn, it sounds like a real drums and definitely like Steve Jordan!
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Gh is definitely a drum machine and probably played by our local hero himself. The fills are extremely rudimentary and the final roll at the end sets the case. And the sound is good but fake, just like the Kempers in last tour.
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Gh is definitely a drum machine and probably played by our local hero himself. The fills are extremely rudimentary and the final roll at the end sets the case. And the sound is good but fake, just like the Kempers in last tour.
Yes, I have sort of always known that Going Home had drum machine on it, but I don’t know (or remember) where I have that information from.
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Linn Drums on GH is MK as per credits, see below copy of the text of the back side of the vinyl maxi single.
Going Home: Theme of the Local Hero
Mark Knopfler: guitars, Linn Drums
Alan Clark: synthesizers
Tony Levin: bass
Mike Brecker: saxophone
Smooching
as above plus Mike Mainieri, vibes
Produced by Mark Knopfler
Engineered by Neil Dorfsman
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
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An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
You are new to the forum. Welcome.
But please consider using a more respectful tone.
Thank you.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
what is it you are looking for? serious discussions? or just trolling around? if it is the first, WELCOME, if it is the second, may as well drop off
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
what is it you are looking for? serious discussions? or just trolling around? if it is the first, WELCOME, if it is the second, may as well drop off
Apologies to you all if I seem a little "off." I am a huge Dire Straits fan and i've followed this forum for many years. Some great, knowledgeable people on it who are always on the look out for links to various interviews from past to present.
I didn't feel like joining until recently even though I often have opinions, just becuase I know it would consume a lot of my time, as Dire Straits were the first band I really loved as a kid, 4-5 years of age. I went onto follow various rock bands including Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, The Police, UFO.... I suppose I perhaps have harder influences than many of you. All those influences were through my father who used to play me albums from start to finish on his technics record player. He owned many japanese versions of the albums from the acts above (including Dire Straits debut album, Comminique and Love Over Gold. At the age of 6 or 7 I was obsessed with the Dire Straits sound and the various members. In England they weren't that fashionable and very rarely did I see them on the TV. It changed a little around 1985/86 and of course Live Aid is an absolute joy. Seeing not only Knopfler in action but Terry Williams, the energetic Jack Sonni RIP and Alan Clark.
Of course many of you are from different backgrounds, perhaps into folk and country... so his solo career must be a joy to you all. There have been flashes for me, but sadly i'm more into the band. I appreciate Knopfler was the band, BUT still he needed the musicians around him. So I sometimes feel sad at the criticism of some of his former band mates - Chris Whitton, the lack of praise for Hal Lindes and Jack Sonni. Knopfler no doubt is a world class songwriter and guitarist, but it doesn't mean he isn't flawed. No human is, but it's difficult for some of the posters to take when there is critisism against his character. Genius's don't have to be difficult people. You can be nice and a genius, but anyway I appreciate the legend that Mark is.
In terms of my favourite album of his it's got to be Love Over Gold followed by Making Movies. So it came as a shock to me when I listened to a podcast with Pick Withers last year with regards to his latter years with the band. He spoke about drum machines and the band becoming too loud and perhaps into genres he wasn't particularly keen on. Industrial Disease, a song I particularly like, was apparently worked on a drum machine. He also mentioned Telegraph Road. It's sad in a way as I used to often visualise Pick playing these songs in the studio. But there are many secrets in the music industry. Many many albums that aren't what they seem. Def Leppard's Pyromania for example used Drum machines. Rick Allen hardly played anything on it.There are hundreds of other examples.
Finally just to add some context, for many years I worked less than half a mile away from British Grove, Knopfler's studio in Chiswick and I even came across his solo band collegues at the Mawson's arms once.... well I recognised Guy Fletcher but unusually I didn't have the guts to talk to him. Sadly that pub has closed... I remember that area well with the smell of honey/hops in the chiswick air. When the company I worked for sadly moved from Chiswick I said my goodbye's to British Grove, I realised that I could have been a "fanboy" and hung around the streets around the studio at any point... I sort of regret it but I was often afraid to meet Knopfler just in case... I didn't want my high opinion of him to be tarnished.
Best wishes to you all and again apologies for the tone of my previous messages.
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Linn Drums on GH is MK as per credits, see below copy of the text of the back side of the vinyl maxi single.
Going Home: Theme of the Local Hero
Mark Knopfler: guitars, Linn Drums
Alan Clark: synthesizers
Tony Levin: bass
Mike Brecker: saxophone
Smooching
as above plus Mike Mainieri, vibes
Produced by Mark Knopfler
Engineered by Neil Dorfsman
I'm sure I listened or read in interviews that Steve Jordan played the drums in GH while they were in Power Station together with Mike Brecker and Tony Levin but maybe it was they just didn't remember it exactly or maybe that they have the credits wrong, as it happened in other occasions.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
what is it you are looking for? serious discussions? or just trolling around? if it is the first, WELCOME, if it is the second, may as well drop off
Apologies to you all if I seem a little "off." I am a huge Dire Straits fan and i've followed this forum for many years. Some great, knowledgeable people on it who are always on the look out for links to various interviews from past to present.
I didn't feel like joining until recently even though I often have opinions, just becuase I know it would consume a lot of my time, as Dire Straits were the first band I really loved as a kid, 4-5 years of age. I went onto follow various rock bands including Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, The Police, UFO.... I suppose I perhaps have harder influences than many of you. All those influences were through my father who used to play me albums from start to finish on his technics record player. He owned many japanese versions of the albums from the acts above (including Dire Straits debut album, Comminique and Love Over Gold. At the age of 6 or 7 I was obsessed with the Dire Straits sound and the various members. In England they weren't that fashionable and very rarely did I see them on the TV. It changed a little around 1985/86 and of course Live Aid is an absolute joy. Seeing not only Knopfler in action but Terry Williams, the energetic Jack Sonni RIP and Alan Clark.
Of course many of you are from different backgrounds, perhaps into folk and country... so his solo career must be a joy to you all. There have been flashes for me, but sadly i'm more into the band. I appreciate Knopfler was the band, BUT still he needed the musicians around him. So I sometimes feel sad at the criticism of some of his former band mates - Chris Whitton, the lack of praise for Hal Lindes and Jack Sonni. Knopfler no doubt is a world class songwriter and guitarist, but it doesn't mean he isn't flawed. No human is, but it's difficult for some of the posters to take when there is critisism against his character. Genius's don't have to be difficult people. You can be nice and a genius, but anyway I appreciate the legend that Mark is.
In terms of my favourite album of his it's got to be Love Over Gold followed by Making Movies. So it came as a shock to me when I listened to a podcast with Pick Withers last year with regards to his latter years with the band. He spoke about drum machines and the band becoming too loud and perhaps into genres he wasn't particularly keen on. Industrial Disease, a song I particularly like, was apparently worked on a drum machine. He also mentioned Telegraph Road. It's sad in a way as I used to often visualise Pick playing these songs in the studio. But there are many secrets in the music industry. Many many albums that aren't what they seem. Def Leppard's Pyromania for example used Drum machines. Rick Allen hardly played anything on it.There are hundreds of other examples.
Finally just to add some context, for many years I worked less than half a mile away from British Grove, Knopfler's studio in Chiswick and I even came across his solo band collegues at the Mawson's arms once.... well I recognised Guy Fletcher but unusually I didn't have the guts to talk to him. Sadly that pub has closed... I remember that area well with the smell of honey/hops in the chiswick air. When the company I worked for sadly moved from Chiswick I said my goodbye's to British Grove, I realised that I could have been a "fanboy" and hung around the streets around the studio at any point... I sort of regret it but I was often afraid to meet Knopfler just in case... I didn't want my high opinion of him to be tarnished.
Best wishes to you all and again apologies for the tone of my previous messages.
No problem, good on you son for apologising, welcome to the forum, good to have you here. :)
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
what is it you are looking for? serious discussions? or just trolling around? if it is the first, WELCOME, if it is the second, may as well drop off
Apologies to you all if I seem a little "off." I am a huge Dire Straits fan and i've followed this forum for many years. Some great, knowledgeable people on it who are always on the look out for links to various interviews from past to present.
I didn't feel like joining until recently even though I often have opinions, just becuase I know it would consume a lot of my time, as Dire Straits were the first band I really loved as a kid, 4-5 years of age. I went onto follow various rock bands including Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, The Police, UFO.... I suppose I perhaps have harder influences than many of you. All those influences were through my father who used to play me albums from start to finish on his technics record player. He owned many japanese versions of the albums from the acts above (including Dire Straits debut album, Comminique and Love Over Gold. At the age of 6 or 7 I was obsessed with the Dire Straits sound and the various members. In England they weren't that fashionable and very rarely did I see them on the TV. It changed a little around 1985/86 and of course Live Aid is an absolute joy. Seeing not only Knopfler in action but Terry Williams, the energetic Jack Sonni RIP and Alan Clark.
Of course many of you are from different backgrounds, perhaps into folk and country... so his solo career must be a joy to you all. There have been flashes for me, but sadly i'm more into the band. I appreciate Knopfler was the band, BUT still he needed the musicians around him. So I sometimes feel sad at the criticism of some of his former band mates - Chris Whitton, the lack of praise for Hal Lindes and Jack Sonni. Knopfler no doubt is a world class songwriter and guitarist, but it doesn't mean he isn't flawed. No human is, but it's difficult for some of the posters to take when there is critisism against his character. Genius's don't have to be difficult people. You can be nice and a genius, but anyway I appreciate the legend that Mark is.
In terms of my favourite album of his it's got to be Love Over Gold followed by Making Movies. So it came as a shock to me when I listened to a podcast with Pick Withers last year with regards to his latter years with the band. He spoke about drum machines and the band becoming too loud and perhaps into genres he wasn't particularly keen on. Industrial Disease, a song I particularly like, was apparently worked on a drum machine. He also mentioned Telegraph Road. It's sad in a way as I used to often visualise Pick playing these songs in the studio. But there are many secrets in the music industry. Many many albums that aren't what they seem. Def Leppard's Pyromania for example used Drum machines. Rick Allen hardly played anything on it.There are hundreds of other examples.
Finally just to add some context, for many years I worked less than half a mile away from British Grove, Knopfler's studio in Chiswick and I even came across his solo band collegues at the Mawson's arms once.... well I recognised Guy Fletcher but unusually I didn't have the guts to talk to him. Sadly that pub has closed... I remember that area well with the smell of honey/hops in the chiswick air. When the company I worked for sadly moved from Chiswick I said my goodbye's to British Grove, I realised that I could have been a "fanboy" and hung around the streets around the studio at any point... I sort of regret it but I was often afraid to meet Knopfler just in case... I didn't want my high opinion of him to be tarnished.
Best wishes to you all and again apologies for the tone of my previous messages.
Welcome! :-)
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A question for Chris W if you see this thread. Hope thats ok as I didn’t want to change subject in the thread you’re active in. In this great interview with Ed Bicknell he said that in the 60s their were about 4 drummers that played on the hits and nobody played their own music in the studio. The one band he accused this of was The Kinks which surprised me. Have you heard of this before, did they really use session musicians to record their studio songs? It’s funny as I was bought up to believe the 60s bands were all the real deal and it was in the 80s that everyone was fake and lip synced.
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I know the question isn’t for me but I believe Clem Catini played on quite a few Kinks tracks. And of course in the states you had the Wrecking Crew with Hal Blaine playing for The Beach Boys, The Byrds, Mamas and Papas etc etc etc
Jimmy Page played on tons of sessions before Led Zep as well, including The Kinks from memory.
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I know the question isn’t for me but I believe Clem Catini played on quite a few Kinks tracks. And of course in the states you had the Wrecking Crew with Hal Blaine playing for The Beach Boys, The Byrds, Mamas and Papas etc etc etc
Jimmy Page played on tons of sessions before Led Zep as well, including The Kinks from memory.
All Day And All Of The Night ?
(the question mark is because I have no reliable source but I heard it was on that track)
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The session musician thing was definitely a thing in the early 60's. Bands often didn't even write their own material. It all changed with the huge success of The Beatles. By 66 onwards I think bands were playing on their records and also writing the sings - like Pink Floyd, The Who, The Doors, Jimmy Hendrix Experience etc...
I replaced a lot of band drummers in the 1980's however.
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If you can pay studio time to record 80 takes to get one good then yo can do it that way.
The interesting thing with Pink Floyd is The Wall album.
Therre are uncredited people playing on that one.
BTW does anybody have heard of Nile Rodgers interview about him playing David Gilmour's 0001 white Strat ?
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If you can pay studio time to record 80 takes to get one good then yo can do it that way.
It can be a bunch of things - not a great groove, not a great sound. It isn't always about mistakes.
Since modern technology allows you to completely change the sound AND fix the groove, hardly anyone is replaced by a studio drummer any more.
With drummers like Omar Hakim and Jeff Porcaro you had an incredible feel, tasteful fills and a fantastic drum sound.
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If you can pay studio time to record 80 takes to get one good then yo can do it that way.
It can be a bunch of things - not a great groove, not a great sound. It isn't always about mistakes.
Since modern technology allows you to completely change the sound AND fix the groove, hardly anyone is replaced by a studio drummer any more.
With drummers like Omar Hakim and Jeff Porcaro you had an incredible feel, tasteful fills and a fantastic drum sound.
The funny thing is, I think the drums are great on all those Rockpile/Nick Lowe/Dave Edmunds albums.
But BIA and OES sold 40 million odd between them so who am I to argue with MK?!
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Speaking of Ed, just stumbled across this... Video. LMAO :lol :lol :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln_KnVyaKm8
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He obviously is a great storysteller, indeed very funny. He remembers all the details and names immediately.
Two things remarkable to me: 1) calling him Knopfler instead of Mark, 2) "he and I don't drink".
LE
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LOL :lol
Ed is a legend.
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Cried through most of that story. He’s a funny guy.
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He obviously is a great storysteller, indeed very funny. He remembers all the details and names immediately.
Two things remarkable to me: 1) calling him Knopfler instead of Mark, 2) "he and I don't drink".
LE
Yeah, what a story indeed. Regarding alcohol, maybe he was talking about heavy drinks. As in whiskey, it's like vodka in terms of strength. I don't know anyone who consumes a lot of heavy stuff like this and continues to be sane. The second thing feels like a way to reduce calling him "Mak" all the time, otherwise, that would sound like constantly Mak this, Mak that.
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I took it to mean they don't socialise.
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I took it to mean they don't socialise.
Me too.
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I know they don't socialise anyway.
Last time I saw Ed he was with Pick Withers at the London Drum Show.
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Those teeth spoke to Elvis.
LOL!!!!
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I know they don't socialise anyway.
Last time I saw Ed he was with Pick Withers at the London Drum Show.
How did you find working with Ed Chris?
He always comes across as fun and jovial in interviews but I assume he was pretty tough when it came to business and watching the cash?
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I took it to mean they don't socialise.
Me too.
Interesting how even such a minor detail can generate different perceptions. I'm of course a non-native speaker and easily and likely can be wrong here, but my thinking was like this: since Ed mentioned he had a bottle of whiskey on his table, he emphasised that both he and Mark don't drink [heavy alcohol] juxtaposing the fact Mark slugged down the whole bottle to sell the emotional impact.
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he says mark in the beginning. and he said "he and i'd drink" at least that is what i understood. Dusty?
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Definitely Ed is the best storyteller ever, he has a way to tell everything in both an interesting and funny way.
And he might have stories about many many artists, man, a book of memoirs from him would be priceless!
He's also very good impersonating Chet, LOL
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I took it that Ed had his tongue in his cheek when he said they don’t drink. I remember an interview with one of Marks sons talking about his Dads varied alcohol consumption. He implied he liked a drink.
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Definitely Ed is the best storyteller ever, he has a way to tell everything in both an interesting and funny way.
And he might have stories about many many artists, man, a book of memoirs from him would be priceless!
He's also very good impersonating Chet, LOL
Yes, that's a stand-up comedian right there. If Ed ever did something wrong, I'm willing to forgive everything just for this particular routine. Chet, on the other hand, is a natural comedian as well. With his voice, everything he says automatically becomes funny, all he needs is to add a little bit of acting and even a simple story of the retrieval of false teeth can become a masterpiece of a prank.
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I took it that Ed had his tongue in his cheek when he said they don’t drink. I remember an interview with one of Marks sons talking about his Dads varied alcohol consumption. He implied he liked a drink.
Absolutely. There are photos of Mark behind the scenes, with shot glasses, beer bottles and Smirnoff vodka all over the place, so I'd never buy the idea they "don't drink". I think when you grow older, you start to neglect strong alcohol safe for rare occasions. And something I can relate to myself, as I drink vodka and other strong drinks only in extraordinary circumstances, and I'm Russian. Chet Atkins calling could be one of these occasions and I would too drank a shot of vodka beforehand, nothing wrong about that.
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He was just being sarcastic. Everyone knows Mark enjoys a drink, there are hundreds of stories and interviews where that is mentioned.
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I took it that Ed had his tongue in his cheek when he said they don’t drink.
They don't socialise. Any other interpretation is wrong....sorry. It has nothing to do with either of them having an alcoholic drink or not.
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I took it that Ed had his tongue in his cheek when he said they don’t drink.
They don't socialise. Any other interpretation is wrong....sorry. It has nothing to do with either of them having an alcoholic drink or not.
As far as I recall, I read somewhere, surely Chris would confirm if I recall it well, Ed was not present during the tour except on counted occasions, he was in London managing everything regarding the tour with Paul Cummins taking care of everything from inside the tour.
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I took it that Ed had his tongue in his cheek when he said they don’t drink.
They don't socialise. Any other interpretation is wrong....sorry. It has nothing to do with either of them having an alcoholic drink or not.
Dear Chris... Why so serious? You are known on this forum as somebody who advocates straight facts and truths. The only man who can confirm 100% what he meant is Mr Ed Bicknell himself. Luckily, he is still alive, though I don't think it's worth it to bother him with elaborating on this little detail. I understand you are 100% sure about what he meant, though I don't understand where you get this information from.
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I took it that Ed had his tongue in his cheek when he said they don’t drink.
They don't socialise. Any other interpretation is wrong....sorry. It has nothing to do with either of them having an alcoholic drink or not.
The story is about something that happened in 86/87, why would he mean they don't socialise? They socialised back then. Unless he means they don't socialise at the time of the interview (2019), but that wouldn't make any sense in the context of the conversation.
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As far as I recall, I read somewhere, surely Chris would confirm if I recall it well, Ed was not present during the tour except on counted occasions, he was in London managing everything regarding the tour with Paul Cummins taking care of everything from inside the tour.
Neither were around much, although Paul slightly more than Ed.
As far as the tour was concerned, it was a united front. I was not aware of any rift between Mark, John, Ed and Paul.
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The story is about something that happened in 86/87, why would he mean they don't socialise?
Maybe, although as I say, everyone seemed friendly and on the same page in 1992.
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Dear Chris... Why so serious? You are known on this forum as somebody who advocates straight facts and truths.
Believe what you want.
They don't socialise, which is why Ed says they don't 'share a drink together'.
The reasons or whether it's pure co-incidence?.... I don't know, but I know they don't socialise.
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Dear Chris... Why so serious? You are known on this forum as somebody who advocates straight facts and truths.
Believe what you want.
They don't socialise, which is why Ed says they don't 'share a drink together'.
The reasons or whether it's pure co-incidence?.... I don't know, but I know they don't socialise.
A lot of people in a professional environment don't socialise, that's normal. I would say it's even welcome. You're making money together, not cooking a barbecue in a backyard. However, my problem in this situation is I'm not sure why you need to emphasise you don't socialise with someone when it has nothing to do with the dramatic flow of Ed's recalling the story. If they'd SHARE the drink with MK, that would make sense, however, Mark drank alone, hence no socialising needed, and it would be strange for somebody to emphasise something that doesn't need to be emphasised, that's all.
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it would be strange for somebody to emphasise something that doesn't need to be emphasised, that's all.
I presume he felt he needed to describe their current relationship.
Lot's of people message me to ask when was the last time I saw Mark, or spoke to him. When I say Zaragoza Oct 1992 they are shocked and disappointed.
Over the course of the DS band I'm sure they all went through a lot together. Mark has a new (sort of) manager in Paul Crockford.
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it would be strange for somebody to emphasise something that doesn't need to be emphasised, that's all.
I presume he felt he needed to describe their current relationship.
Lot's of people message me to ask when was the last time I saw Mark, or spoke to him. When I say Zaragoza Oct 1992 they are shocked and disappointed.
Over the course of the DS band I'm sure they all went through a lot together. Mark has a new (sort of) manager in Paul Crockford.
I didn’t understand what you meant at first by saying they don’t socialise. I now do as you meant Mark and Ed never socialised with each other. That doesn’t surprise me one bit.
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I didn’t understand what you meant at first by saying they don’t socialise. I now do as you meant Mark and Ed never socialised with each other.
No idea what they did until after the 1992 tour. They may have socialised a lot.
I'm saying they don't socialise now.
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Amazing how much discussion one tiny remark can generate.
In the context of the anecdote it makes no sense to suddenly imply that they don't socialise together, he was talking about the miniature of whisky.
And we know that MK does indeed drink (don't know about Ed).
So I can only assume he was meaning that he and MK don't drink whisky.
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This discussion is hilarious! ;D
As he is talking about the whiskey, the point on not drinking (whiskey? in the daytime? in the office?) would seem to underline how surprising it was that Mark then gulped it down.
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How I'd love to read Ed's account of the DS story. It'd be a tad more entertaining than Illsley's LOL
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Is there such a thing as a non-drinking Brit? So far I'm yet to meet one, and judging by the map of pubs in the UK... How dare you say you don't drink? I'm confused.
(https://preview.redd.it/8ewex5he4k0y.jpg?auto=webp&s=5c4e6e7b164e3bb84b22921fcd3b4648db8ff82d)
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You are all overthinking about a simple comment made to remark that receiving a call from Chet Atkins was very surprising...
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How I'd love to read Ed's account of the DS story. It'd be a tad more entertaining than Illsley's LOL
Judging by all his interviews and the way he tells the stories, yes, way far entertaining!
But the main thing is he not only has things to say, obviously about DS and MK, but also about many of the best people from the rock history, this man brought Deep Purple or Jimi Hendrix to play to Hull university and others in the area if I recall well!
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How I'd love to read Ed's account of the DS story. It'd be a tad more entertaining than Illsley's LOL
Judging by all his interviews and the way he tells the stories, yes, way far entertaining!
But the main thing is he not only has things to say, obviously about DS and MK, but also about many of the best people from the rock history, this man brought Deep Purple or Jimi Hendrix to play to Hull university and others in the area if I recall well!
and The Who
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Is there such a thing as a non-drinking Brit? So far I'm yet to meet one, and judging by the map of pubs in the UK... How dare you say you don't drink? I'm confused.
(https://preview.redd.it/8ewex5he4k0y.jpg?auto=webp&s=5c4e6e7b164e3bb84b22921fcd3b4648db8ff82d)
I haven't had a drink in 2024 if that helps :)
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At least if Mark reads this forum, he will get a good laugh! ;D
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How I'd love to read Ed's account of the DS story. It'd be a tad more entertaining than Illsley's LOL
Judging by all his interviews and the way he tells the stories, yes, way far entertaining!
But the main thing is he not only has things to say, obviously about DS and MK, but also about many of the best people from the rock history, this man brought Deep Purple or Jimi Hendrix to play to Hull university and others in the area if I recall well!
Exactly. Wonder why he hasn't done it actually.
Here's another story. Just unbelievably funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhyBGBVfk1M
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Imaginary interview:
"MK and Ed don't speak to each other"
AMIT forum:
"Oh, that just means they do karaoke and rave parties together".
C'mon. Not everyone is Guy Fletcher ;D
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???
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What I found more interesting than the non-socializing story (which is pretty obvious once you've heard "Let's See You") is that you're calling Paul Crockford a "(sort of) manager", Chris. Why that?
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What I found more interesting than the non-socializing story (which is pretty obvious once you've heard "Let's See You") is that you're calling Paul Crockford a "(sort of) manager", Chris. Why that?
You are all doing a big snow ball fron nothing.
They were client and customer during the DS days, maybe they got to be kind of friends, but once they broke their proffesional relationship, they don't socialize, it's pretty obvious.
Maybe that sort of manager about Crockford is because he was a promoter that worked a lot with DS and assisted Bicknell a lot too, actually he was the manager for the NHB.
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Actually Crockford was my manager during Paul McCartney and Dire Straits tours. Paul knew well the DS management (Ed and Paul Cummins).
I'm not on the inside, but I believe Crockford acts to help Mark when he needs it, like the 2019 tour, but Mark doesn't currently have a contracted manager.
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Hello everyone.
I just received, via Chris Whitten (thanks Chris), a message from Ed Bicknell, which I'm posting later.
The most important thing, he says literally "point out that I can't and won’t get into "correspondence” , that this is not going to be a regular thing"
So, what I'm posting is just something to read and he has no intention of answering, although I'm sure he would be reading, and probably having a good laugh.
I love this guy, how I wish he would write a book about all stories he knows, not only of DS and MK!!!
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Hello everyone.
I just received, via Chris Whitten (thanks Chris), a message from Ed Bicknell, which I'm posting later.
The most important thing, he says literally "point out that I can't and won’t get into "correspondence” , that this is not going to be a regular thing"
So, what I'm posting is just something to read and he has no intention of answering, although I'm sure he would be reading, and probably having a good laugh.
I love this guy, how I wish he would write a book about all stories he knows, not only of DS and MK!!!
Great!
Thanks jbaent, Chris W and of course Ed!
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I'm forwarding this message from Ed Bicknel to you.
Chris W
Hi there Jbaent, nice to meet you ,
My attention was brought to your site AMIT a while ago and I’ve followed it on and off since.
After Jack and Brendan’s passing ( REALLY REALLY sad, ) I was prompted to check out some of the threads you have going which are often unintentionally funny, wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded since understandably the writers do not have the information.
NOT a problem, that’s what being a fan is about and without fans where would we be? ( Probably hot and sticky. )
Being a fan is AN ADVENTURE !!!!
So I am sending a few comments via Chris Whitten on some of the topics that are currently “ running ” just to inform, NOT to criticise.
IF you publish please DO NOT EDIT and point out that I can't and won’t get into "correspondence” , that this is not going to be a regular thing and what follows is not an attempt to deal with every point that the fans/writers bring up, for instance I won’t address the Alan Clark thread, the On Every Street album content or the technical studio stuff which Guy has more than covered even though he can’t change a plug.
Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years.
And what follows is subjective and from memory, I shredded everything when we closed, bin bags full of letters, telexes, faxes, emails, diaries, a history of technical communication since 1977, so I may have misremembered but I'm not going to get into factual debates, if I’m wrong I’m wrong.
So use this intro if you want
Here we go……..
A SKID MARK ON THE Y FRONTS
1. The Bob Lefsetz podcast/interview.
Thanks for the positive comments, it was fun to do. Excellent interviewer…….tip - Bob has alot of interviews on his sites worth checking out if you are real music fans ( as opposed to being locked into one thing ).
As far as not talking about the transition into MK's solo band, that was guided by the interviewer and it would have taken at least half an hour to have detailed and includes too much personal stuff for your forum, sorry.
2. "Sacred Loving” .
From memory that was on the original Pathway studios demo tape they did but I must have forgotten which says something about the song/performance…….average at best which I’m guessing is why it wasn’t used, plus the fact David wrote it, if he’d written “ Day In The Life” it wouldn’t have made it ( see Muff Winwood You Tube interview in a doc on siblings in bands. Can’t recall the title …BBC 2 maybe? Long time ago. )
3. Sid McGinnis.
Let me try and put this one to bed.
He came in “last minute” after David's departure and I'm not even sure we paid him !
I can't recall what he played on, it was 44 years ago !
Ah yes, he used his guitar.
Memory….I think MK replaced some of what D had done up to then though not much because D's departure was fairly early on while they were tracking “ Romeo and Juliet ”.
I don't think Sid was credited because I wasn't there at the time and nobody told me he'd done anything ( typical ) nor do I know how he got the gig ( through Jimmy Iovine, Lourdes maybe? )
He certainly never complained re no credit.
Roy B was there from the NY rehearsals on so completely different situation and he contributed to the arrangements and general vibe. Great guy ( all of Bruce’s band are including the singer ).
There were NO disagreements about finances or that motivating anything either re Sid or anyone else.
There was no "production company", just me and the band, and 90% of the time right up to 2000 whenever I could I did things on a handshake, especially with promoters, the BEST people I dealt with by far,( pre Live Nation/AEG ).
All these “ contracts " people keep mentioning never existed ( except records/publishing ) and I took NO notice of record companies in the unlikely event they came looking for something unless it fitted with what was happening creatively eg single choices, TV's, videos, interviews etc.
In fairness neither Warners or Phonogram ever asked when they were getting a new album, too scared to !
My policy was that if we couldn’t do it our/my way, it didn't happen at all, so you can close that line down in future…...yes, like Frank I did it MY WAY ( with all my artists irrespective of how successful they were, it’s just a matter of knowing how to protect them.
Sid’s relationship with MK was always fine but brief, I'm surprised that conflict is even hinted at.
It was played “ that way ” on Letterman because those things are always lacking in rehearsal time, you just have to get on with it FAST, maybe two run throughs at most, and just about everybody with a decent front person would use the house band since it was easier and faster technically, hence MK doing that one ( EL ) on his own minus the rest of DS.
No-one back then thought of bands as “ brands ”.
No idea if Sid ever did an interview, he was/is a studio player and they generally stay under the radar.
By the way, I doubt MK “ told " Hal what to play on EL, he was perfectly capable of coming up with his own parts, which is why he got the job until he didn't have the job ( eeeew I don't want to think of Hal's parts ).
I'm baffled by the comment re Hal not being loud enough on live shows.
I often used to sit on the FOH desk ( or monitors) and never thought the sound balance was “ out " despite some of the shit holes we played, quite the opposite.
4. Budapest. We only had time to film the live MFN bits, there was NO additional filming at all and no plan to shoot anything long-form ( way too early in the tour, nobody thought to do, I certainly didn't ).
It was all done on one afternoon ( at sound check) and then at that evening's gig (hence bits of other songs..they just wanted audience shots to drop in ), which might account for the change in sweaty shirts /jacket colours. Obviously the film crew didn't have a co ordination person with them or when they edited it together !
The record co's needed FAST.
I think the single was already out in some countries so usual mad panic, no budget by the way and the girl in it was hired the morning of the shoot by the film co.
I don't recall “ many " cameras. Maybe 3? 4?
Chris Whitten’s comment on this is correct.
5. The comment re Pick and LOG is incorrect. Pick is all over that record ( and I was gutted when he left ), if you watch his interviews it’s all there eg shitty machine on Industrial D, I completely agree with him on that.
We remain great friends to this day .....he married my secretary Linda TWICE !
He did not "change style” …great drummers can play the same song as many different ways as needed and Pick is a GREAT drummer no question.
There were several reasons he left not just that old “musical differences ” thing which is always a cover for what actually happened ie personal strife!
The Oldfield book is mediocre. ..a shame because we gave him total access., but not as bad as the other book that came out ( can't recall who by), now THAT one was rubbish…the writer was obsessed by Sting ( easy I know).
I have NO memory of Ed Walsh at all. I wonder if we paid HIM!
6. I agree with the comments re Pick and Terry ( who came from a Welsh “ jam ” band called Man I used to book as an agent early 70's hence the introduction).
He was the only drummer they “ auditioned " for about an hour after I got him in.
The LH credits on Wikipedia/the sleeve are correct.
"Going Home" is a Linn, absolutely. I know because as a drummer I loathe them. I detest ALL drum machines.
MK programmed…….there wasn't anybody else to do! And that last “roll " is a rhythmic cliche but then he's not a drummer. Ha! ( But it worked ).
Steve Jordan did originally record the GH track but it was substituted because of issues to do with syncing with the film titles/credits at the end.
There are no typos.
Michael Brecker RIP is sax, Tony L and Neil J played as credited, all brilliant, so EASY.
7. Session players.
In the late 50's and up to late 60's bands RARELY performed on their own records except for the singers.
Time = money was the rule.
So session man Andy White played drums on " Love Me Do " by the Beatles because George Martin didn't feel Pete Best was good enough.
Playing in time was key ( no click tracks back then) and you did an A side and B side in 3 hours max ( otherwise they Union rate went up ).
A full album in maybe 2/3 days incl mixing.
Whatever you had by the end came out, good or not so good ( sometimes shit ) and nothing was EVER played back to the acts/singers ever, the producers ruled back then.
The main drummers were Clem Cattini ( 48 number ones, we don’t talk about Clem’s number two’s ) , Ronnie Verrell, Andy White, and Bobby Graham who did "You Really Got Me”, “ All of the Day”, and pretty much all The Kinks stuff and Ray's solo records.
He's also the drummer on most of the Dave Clark 5 records.
There were a similar number of guitarists...Big Jim Sullivan, Jimmy Page, Alan Parker, Ray Russell, a few bass players eg John Paul Jones, Herbie Flowers, Mo Foster, sax ( eg Ronnie Scott of jazz club fame is on Eleanor Rigby ), numerous backing singers ( both sexes) , percussionists ( Frank Ricotti) and so on.
All on Wikipedia under UK session musicians, a fascinating subject if you can get off MK/DS for a minute.
Same set up in NY and LA ( Wrecking Crew), Nashville , Motown, Stax.
They all got paid diddly squat sadly, about £43 an hour x 3 hours in the UK, a bit more if you "doubled" on instruments ( so every drummer had a tambourine).
Chris Whitten is entirely correct ( and about Jeff, Omar, Manu, all absolute masters of their craft ).
Terry Williams is on all that Rockpile stuff.....the king of what drummers call "the shuffle”.
For fact seekers, he’s on the intro to MFN and all of “ Walk of Life” ( which MK always saw as a non album B side until Neil D and I insisted it was a hit song) ..he’s also on the “ Twisting By The Pool " EP . “ Alchemy ” ( obviously ) , bits of ‘ Local Hero” , I can't recall what else.
8. Drinking and socialising.
This thread is complete nonsense ( but pretty funny ).
Re the Chet story, it was an “off the cuff ” remark.
All I meant was that MK had to swig the whisky MINIATURE to get the courage to take Chet's call ( although the two already knew each other) such was the esteem in which both of us held him. I was telling and mildly embellishing a story, not lying on a psychiatrist's chair.
Pavel's comment re “ Mak " is correct.
We stopped working together in 2000, so no, we don't “ socialise '’ ( I’m not even sure what that even means, fondling each other? ) and Chris Whitten is correct again, maybe he’s stalking me.
I'd say MK and I have a respectful relationship but we both moved on from each other years ago ( even the fondling stopped eventually, shit . )
Now I spend my time hanging out with drummers, going to Drum Fairs and watching Buddy Rich solos on You Tube.
Now Buddy liked puff, how did he play like that completely stoned? A true genius on his instrument.
On that last tour I was SO busy I couldn't cover as many shows as I would have liked and listening to " Calling Elvis " every night was not the best use of my time, which is why I made sure we had the best tour manager ( Tony Wigens ), Production Manager ( Alan Hornall), and a full and brilliant crew because it's a delusion to think you can do it on your own......at one point I think we had about 200+ on the road ( the stadiums ).
Again,Chris Whitten is dead right, bands living in each other’s pockets is a recipe for disaster.
In fact he's 92.6 % correct on all his quotes which is unusual for a drummer given the banging in the head and migraines they usually suffer from.
I LOVE his “ sort of ” comment re Crockford, classic.
To be clear Mark and I “ socialised " right up to when I quit ( mostly reading “ VIZ ” together…google it ), or munching burgers at Tootsies cafe in Notting Hill or meat pies at the Cock and Balls gastric pub in Olympia.
Is any of this important?
NO.
9. I will refrain from commenting on John's book at length except that the "Portland Oregon” ( BIA tour) he mentions was actually Portland MAINE 100 miles from Boston not 4000 which would have been physically impossible to do.
Apparently he did not get the book fact checked ( there are a number of errors as I'm sure the readers have discovered), so a bit disappointing given the opportunity ( except the nice things he says about me, it’s worth getting it for that alone ).
10. Hull University.
Deep Purple…...no but I did become their agent just a few years later …great band along with Black Sabbath who I also repped. I LOVED them, hilarious bunch.
We had The Who x 2 , Hendrix, The Kinks, Moody Blues x 2 , Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Pink Floyd x 2 , Free, John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers, Family x 2 ( the best of the lot) , Ten Years After, Jethro Tull, Joe Cocker, loads of jazz and folk artists etc etc etc
11. Tribute bands.
I’ll state the obvious, they exist because the “ main “ act has ceased functioning, broken up, fucked each others wives and/or died eg Beatles, Cream, ABBA, Led Zeppelin.
They are a response to public demand and pre Beatles ALL UK bands were “ cover bands " mainly playing American stuff or copying The Shadows ( the unsung heroes to all that generation especially guitarists to whom Hank Marvin was/is king ).
Mark and I played in loads of groups like that around Leeds (some of which only lasted a month ) mid Sixties. .
“Green Onions” was our starting point, then “ Bo Diddley ” ( which led to “ Calling Elvis ”.)
MK LOVES Bo Diddley, as I do ( and his son Diddley Diddley ).
Strangely we didn’t meet then although we went to the SAME music store ( Kitchens of Leeds) at the same time! Weird!
So "Tribute bands” are an extension except it’s ONE song source not many.
Trashing them is just musical snobbery to me.
I think David Gilmour had a Floyd Tribute band play at a birthday bash ( his ), probably the Australian bunch that Crockford manages ( sort of…ha!) so obviously he’s not bothered, remember it’s just pop music, nothing else.
Until the Beatles came along no one even THOUGHT of writing their own stuff, that came from “professional songwriters” or by copying the US ‘’ hits ” of the time. ( which is what The Beatles originally did eg ’Twist and Shout” by the Isley Brothers ).
When Chris White and Alan Clark formed the first one I saw them at The Royal Albert Hall and thought they were ff……..ing tremendous and why not ? There’s no rule out there that says former members can't be in their own tribute band, nobody is forcing the public to go.
The first person I ever saw do that was Bruce Welch in The Moonlight Shadows ( who were great). Now ABBA have avatars of themselves and AI is going to impact all this.
I helped that first version with a bit of advice, mainly about a legal concept called “ passing off ” which in essence means not misleading the public into thinking you’re Bo Diddley when you're not, especially if you’re dead.
Unfortunately it isn’t always possible to stop third parties eg dodgy promoters advertising as THEY think fit, and before anybody mentions “ contracts ” , most of the contracts in music are worthless, unenforceable and too expensive to sue anybody over even if it were possible ( eg in say, China, Japan, Leeds. ).
Unfortunately one person caused that lineup to splinter and no, I’m not naming , doesn’t matter…...here comes speculation.
For me the Dire Straits Experience are almost as good as the “ real thing ” and Terence Reis is something of a genius in the way he channels MK rather than copying him. The BEST of guys and players and really folks, it’s not that important in the scheme of things.
What they’ve achieved by talent and hard work is tremendous….….there you go I’ve given you a subject to debate.
Instead of bitching about them ( or any other tribute bands ) go and see them ( DSE) because you definitely won’t be seeing Dire Straits again.
I have no thoughts about DSL as a unit, haven’t seen just as I haven’t listened to anything Alan Clark has done.
Incidentally the song MK wrote on this subject could lyrically be about ANY tribute band, I’ve no idea and I’m not going to ask him ( or listen to it ) .
Anything else is just speculation based on what ?
He and I never discussed tribute bands and I can't imagine he spends any time thinking about them ( and as stated, John Illsley has played with various lineups as has Pick ).
Remember, “ Sultans of Swing ” is about a covers/tribute band who had taken THEIR name from a 1950’s American jazz band ( Panama Francis and The Savoy Sultans ).……
Chris Whitten is entirely correct in his comments about making a living playing music.
It’s really TOUGH and has become progressively tougher. If you can't play live at a profit you're stuffed, but you can always do it for fun, something that seems to be forgotten with music, so if you like the Kinks, form a tribute band and call them The Winks and get going.
And I must add here, Chris is really irritating with his endlessly correct comments but then he did play on “ The Whole of The Moon” so I'd forgive him anything…..aaaah, The Waterboys, one I tried to get but it didn’t work out…BUGGER.
By the way, Crockford did NOT manage the NHB’s and was not a “ support “ to me ( be serious, I wear a surgical truss for that ), he promoted some DS/NHB shows across the years and met MK via that, not otherwise.
12. Lastly, there’s an old thread re my “ contract ” and the split with MK.
Again, not important (certainly now) but I was not “ fired ”, if anything I “ resigned " for numerous reasons ( same comment re selling the rights I had ) and the speculation on that subject is wholly incorrect and anyway, why so strange to sell what you own ?
Bob Dylan has sold all his songs. So? They are HIS songs …ditto the many others who’ve done the same …when you get past 65 thoughts of mortality and avoiding/reducing Inheritance Tax creep in or the accountant tells you the plusses and minuses, especially if you have kids. Maybe guitar auctions come into the conversation? ( I have zero knowledge of that ).
All I will say here is that our parting was the inevitable conclusion to everything that took place from OES on and I don't mean musical direction.
As it happens I was NOT trying to keep DS going for money or any other reason, in many ways the opposite ( from 1986 to 1990 I NEVER mentioned the band to MK or vice versa. EVER )
The one thing nearly all your members consistently miss ( fair enough because there is no way they could know), is the impact people’s personal lives and inter-band relationships have on what is going on professionally, and that applies to ALL bands in my experience,
I can't think of a single exception.
That was the case in spades with OES ………
So I guess I better write a book then…….
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Well.
Maybe the best ever post on this forum since its inception 15 odd years ago.
Thank you jbaent and Chris W for facilitating, but most importantly, thank you Ed! Count me in for a copy of that book!
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Thanks Ed for your great message. I know you are reading so I had to say it!
I totally understand you don't want to get involved directly, and that's a pity as I guess no one would ever dare to say you are wrong on anything!
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So I guess I better write a book then…….
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
THANK GOD!
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hell yes, a book is what we need. this was the best post on our forum, since i founded it with a few other get-a-lifers as mark likes to call our kind.
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hell yes, a book is what we need. this was the best post on our forum, since i founded it with a few other get-a-lifers as mark likes to call our kind.
But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024? Ed is a phenomenal storyteller and I'd much rather listen to his voice and look at his reactions than read a book. These interviews are goldmines, I can't remember laughing so hard over an interview with a music executive on YouTube. Ironically enough, Chet Atkins's interviews are hilarious too, you can tear yourself out of laughter. Truly, laughs, and jokes, and drinks, and smokes. How about this title for a book, ey?
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hell yes, a book is what we need. this was the best post on our forum, since i founded it with a few other get-a-lifers as mark likes to call our kind.
But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024? Ed is a phenomenal storyteller and I'd much rather listen to his voice and look at his reactions than read a book. These interviews are goldmines, I can't remember laughing so hard over an interview with a music executive on YouTube. Ironically enough, Chet Atkins's interviews are hilarious too, you can tear yourself out of laughter. Truly, laughs, and jokes, and drinks, and smokes. How about this title for a book, ey?
well a friggin audio book then for folks like yourself and a good oldfashioned book for boomers like myself.
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hell yes, a book is what we need. this was the best post on our forum, since i founded it with a few other get-a-lifers as mark likes to call our kind.
But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024? Ed is a phenomenal storyteller and I'd much rather listen to his voice and look at his reactions than read a book. These interviews are goldmines, I can't remember laughing so hard over an interview with a music executive on YouTube. Ironically enough, Chet Atkins's interviews are hilarious too, you can tear yourself out of laughter. Truly, laughs, and jokes, and drinks, and smokes. How about this title for a book, ey?
well a friggin audio book then for folks like yourself and a good oldfashioned book for boomers like myself.
Count me in!
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But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024?
Um, books are still HUGELY popular. In recent years we've had books from some of the biggest celebrities in the world - Springsteen, Elton John, Britney Spears, Prince Harry etc etc etc
Just because you don't read books doesn't mean there aren't millions of others who do.
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But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024?
Um, books are still HUGELY popular. In recent years we've had books from some of the biggest celebrities in the world - Springsteen, Elton John, Britney Spears, Prince Harry etc etc etc
Just because you don't read books doesn't mean there aren't millions of others who do.
Dusty, you are 100% wrong ;D Sorry for quoting the classics. Just because I don't want a book from Ed doesn't mean I'm not reading books. More than this, I would be more than happy if you'd suggest to me some of your favourite books. I work with guitar students all over the world daily, and it's quite an opportunity to ask for some nice book suggestions, I'm enjoying reading a bunch of American authors at the moment.
An audiobook is a perfect solution indeed, I just think about the amount of time it could take to write a book and then to record it. Gonna take years. And since it never happened, then probably for a reason. And don't forget most likely it's just a joke, after all, it's a perfect closing after an epic post for comedic effect. That's, folks, is what you get when there is a disconnect with a man in question :lol
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What a post by Ed! I could have paid already for that! My favourite line "They all got paid diddly squat sadly, about £43 an hour x 3 hours in the UK, a bit more if you "doubled" on instruments ( so every drummer had a tambourine)."
By the way, DSL just played in Finland and they performance was criticized in the biggest newspaper of the country. But if the audience were happy that is the most important thing. And I guess that those who wouldn't be happy are not going to those tribute gigs...
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But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024?
Um, books are still HUGELY popular. In recent years we've had books from some of the biggest celebrities in the world - Springsteen, Elton John, Britney Spears, Prince Harry etc etc etc
Just because you don't read books doesn't mean there aren't millions of others who do.
Dusty, you are 100% wrong ;D Sorry for quoting the classics. Just because I don't want a book from Ed doesn't mean I'm not reading books. More than this, I would be more than happy if you'd suggest to me some of your favourite books. I work with guitar students all over the world daily, and it's quite an opportunity to ask for some nice book suggestions, I'm enjoying reading a bunch of American authors at the moment.
An audiobook is a perfect solution indeed, I just think about the amount of time it could take to write a book and then to record it. Gonna take years. And since it never happened, then probably for a reason. And don't forget most likely it's just a joke, after all, it's a perfect closing after an epic post for comedic effect. That's, folks, is what you get when there is a disconnect with a man in question :lol
I tend to read only non-fiction about music or film, not sure if that's your thing?
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Fantastic! Thank you, Ed (and Chris and jbaent for making this happen). And how I'd wish it had been you who'd written that DS book, not John ...
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Re books, I think Pavel has a Master's degree in Generalization. Of course people still buy books. Printed ones. Music stores are gone, mostly, but there are book stores everywhere. I just bought Crime And Punishment (Dostovsky), at the airport no less.
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Re books, I think Pavel has a Master's degree in Generalization. Of course people still buy books. Printed ones. Music stores are gone, mostly, but there are book stores everywhere. I just bought Crime And Punishment (Dostovsky), at the airport no less.
I'd say, people are masters in missing the point in my posts :lol I agree Ed is the second person to Mark a book about Dire Straits would be worth it, not John. With that said, how popular was John's book anyway? 176 reviews on Amazon are not bad, I suppose. However, Bruce Springstee's book has 13,125 reviews. I'm not sure how popular Ed's book could be, but I doubt it would sell in spades. Hence my doubt about the success of this thing and reasoning for doing interviews/podcasts that are much easier to do. The fact that 10 people on AMIT are going to buy this book won't be enough for Sir Edward to grab a pen I'm afraid!
Congrats on enjoying Crime And Punishment! Mind you, I actually read this thing in original language! :wave
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Wow! Lots of important and valuable messages from Ed. I read with great interest. Thank you Ed, thank you jbaent :)
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I'd say, people are masters in missing the point in my posts :lol I agree Ed is the second person to Mark a book about Dire Straits would be worth it, not John. With that said, how popular was John's book anyway? 176 reviews on Amazon are not bad, I suppose. However, Bruce Springstee's book has 13,125 reviews. I'm not sure how popular Ed's book could be, but I doubt it would sell in spades. Hence my doubt about the success of this thing and reasoning for doing interviews/podcasts that are much easier to do. The fact that 10 people on AMIT are going to buy this book won't be enough for Sir Edward to grab a pen I'm afraid!
Oh, come on. John's book couldn't have been duller even if he tried to. Ed's wit, sense of humor and 'no-holds-barrred' attitude would have made people who hate DS buy the book.
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I'd say, people are masters in missing the point in my posts :lol I agree Ed is the second person to Mark a book about Dire Straits would be worth it, not John. With that said, how popular was John's book anyway? 176 reviews on Amazon are not bad, I suppose. However, Bruce Springstee's book has 13,125 reviews. I'm not sure how popular Ed's book could be, but I doubt it would sell in spades. Hence my doubt about the success of this thing and reasoning for doing interviews/podcasts that are much easier to do. The fact that 10 people on AMIT are going to buy this book won't be enough for Sir Edward to grab a pen I'm afraid!
Oh, come on. John's book couldn't have been duller even if he tried to. Ed's wit, sense of humor and 'no-holds-barrred' attitude would have made people who hate DS buy the book.
Yeah, you know what, it's possible. I wonder why he never thought about writing a book, it's so obvious of an idea in his situation after so many years of a successful and fruitful career, and more than this — he obviously has A LOT to say about these things, and he can barely stop even writing this message to AMIT, so many good words and observations.
Kudos to Ed, by the way, while he admits that we fans, as a group, are a little bit "mad", he's doing it in a very friendly and polite way, not falling into scolding and teaching about life, with the usual sense of humour and humbleness. A delightful experience.
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An emblematic and historic post, I believe it is the best I could say about Ed Bicknell's participation here on the forum, thank you Ed, Chris and Julio. :clap :clap :clap :clap
Honestly, I've been dreaming for a long time about a book written by Ed Bicknell talking about his career with Dire Straits, NHB and Mark Knopfler, I have no doubt that it would be very fun and enlightening, without waste, I hope this becomes a reality soon , I would make a point of purchasing my copy, like many here, with the exception of course of Pavel, sometimes he makes me believe that he lives in a parallel reality when he quotes things like: "But with all honesty, who writes books in the year 2024?" or "I'd much rather listen to his voice and look at his reactions than read a book." Anyway... I hope Ed doesn't think that way, it would be a waste and a sacrilege given the wealth of an eyewitness between 1977/2000, stories and information that he could offer through a book of his own, it would be a precise gift for all of us.
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"...or the technical studio stuff which Guy has more than covered even though he can’t change a plug."
I found that hilarious. :lol
LE
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Oh my freaking God, I said this line about books only about the fact that I think Ed is a better speaker and storyteller than a writer. Have you seen a lot of books written by Ed? I haven't! Not a single one. If you saw it please let me know. But I saw what he can do in an interview situation, that's all. That is all. I don't want to burn all the books Fahrenheit 451 style.
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Well I know where you're coming from with this opinion and I agree about how great his interviews are, but I found this post was brilliantly written, funny, witty, to the point and very refreshing in the way he was open about all sorts of things. In fact it was written exactly as he speaks. If he would write a book in that style, I would even buy two copies. ;D
LE
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Cool post from Ed! One could almost wonder if it's a joke, but the style seems to be his.
So it turns out that Terry plays on Walk of Life, but not John. What little we know, we mere mortals ;D
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Also interesting to me that Mark is the one who thought Walk of Life was a throwaway b-side and Neil and the band (and Ed) had to talk him into including it. The way I remember hearing it was that Neil hated it and didn't think it fit with the rest of the album and Mark and the boys overruled him.
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Cool post from Ed! One could almost wonder if it's a joke, but the style seems to be his.
So it turns out that Terry plays on Walk of Life, but not John. What little we know, we mere mortals ;D
We are very lucky fans, aren't we? :lol
I'm just amazed that EB found time to react and write down some of the thoughts, and I have to agree with Chris here, most of the stuff discussed on this forum is simply guessing and deducing, and it's great to see actual people actually react to stuff. Mark rarely gives interviews, is not present on social media and couldn't care less about writing books, John's book is not highly detailed, Ed's book does not exist at all (and my money is on the book line being a joke). All we have is Guy Fletcher and old interviews. Nice. So at least Ed now understands the magnitude of the dire straits situation we've got here.
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Also interesting to me that Mark is the one who thought Walk of Life was a throwaway b-side and Neil and the band (and Ed) had to talk him into including it. The way I remember hearing it was that Neil hated it and didn't think it fit with the rest of the album and Mark and the boys overruled him.
Surprisingly, Wikipedia gets this fact right: "Mark Knopfler had not originally intended "Walk of Life" for the album, but rather as a B-side to one of the singles. Dire Straits manager Ed Bicknell heard it when it was being mixed and convinced Knopfler to include it on the album at the last minute"
To be honest, Neil's version is kinda more plausible and makes more sense. From which planet do you need to arrive to think Walk Of Life is a throwaway B-side song? After writing it yourself? Like, what? Probably planet Knopfler. If it was a demo or something then maybe yes. But the way it sounds on the album is obvious instant hit. It could explain the random nature of bonus songs we have today if Mark is so unsure about his hits. That sounds like a good question to Mark.
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What great insights from Ed.
Aside from the DS content, a book from Ed would be a great document about how the UK music industry evolved from the 60s through to the 21st century. There aren't many people still around who worked through that entire era who still have their sanity and/or memory.
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Best post ever! Thanks so much, Ed, Chris and Jbaent. Epic. Historic.
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Ed, if you read the forum, a BIG THANK YOU for all these infos :clap :wave
and thanks to Chris and Julio for making this possible
and brilliantly written : funny and informative at the same time. I Loved it
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"Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years." — Ed Bicknell
What a great line. And this is exactly my thoughts on Guy as well. I criticise him a big deal all the time because we probably have opposed tastes in everything, on the other hand, I respect Mark and understand he won't be working with an idiot for 40 years straight in a partnership lasting longer than his marriages, and I know I'm in the wrong, just sometimes can't help myself because the only idiot here is me. Not even starting to talk about Guy being practically the only window into MK world fans ever had for like 30 years.
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I'm very proud that Ed Bicknell decided, through Chris Whitten, to express himself writing to me.bindont know why I deserved such an honour, but it's a highlight for me as a Dire Straits fan, I always consider Ed as another band member, like George Martin was called the 5th Beatle, and I always defended that Ed had a big role, together with MK's talent, in the success of the band.
I also had the luck to cross my path with him twice at the RAH and he was very nice, kind and funny in both occasions.
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I'm very proud that Ed Bicknell decided, through Chris Whitten, to express himself writing to me.bindont know why I deserved such an honour, but it's a highlight for me as a Dire Straits fan, I always consider Ed as another band member, like George Martin was called the 5th Beatle, and I always defended that Ed had a big role, together with MK's talent, in the success of the band.
I also had the luck to cross my path with him twice at the RAH and he was very nice, kind and funny in both occasions.
Ed knows a good man when he sees one Julio!
Ed gave me a set list at the end of the NHB gig in Stirling in 97, what a guy.
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"Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years." — Ed Bicknell
What a great line. And this is exactly my thoughts on Guy as well. I criticise him a big deal all the time because we probably have opposed tastes in everything, on the other hand, I respect Mark and understand he won't be working with an idiot for 40 years straight in a partnership lasting longer than his marriages, and I know I'm in the wrong, just sometimes can't help myself because the only idiot here is me. Not even starting to talk about Guy being practically the only window into MK world fans ever had for like 30 years.
We should print and frame this post, to hang it on the AMIT wall... Quite an unique post from Quizzy
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I'm very proud that Ed Bicknell decided, through Chris Whitten, to express himself writing to me.bindont know why I deserved such an honour, but it's a highlight for me as a Dire Straits fan, I always consider Ed as another band member, like George Martin was called the 5th Beatle, and I always defended that Ed had a big role, together with MK's talent, in the success of the band.
I also had the luck to cross my path with him twice at the RAH and he was very nice, kind and funny in both occasions.
Ed knows a good man when he sees one Julio!
Ed gave me a set list at the end of the NHB gig in Stirling in 97, what a guy.
Thats the most beautiful thing I've been told, I never expected that from a Scotish, LOL
Thanks amigo!
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"Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years." — Ed Bicknell
What a great line. And this is exactly my thoughts on Guy as well. I criticise him a big deal all the time because we probably have opposed tastes in everything, on the other hand, I respect Mark and understand he won't be working with an idiot for 40 years straight in a partnership lasting longer than his marriages, and I know I'm in the wrong, just sometimes can't help myself because the only idiot here is me. Not even starting to talk about Guy being practically the only window into MK world fans ever had for like 30 years.
We should print and frame this post, to hang it on the AMIT wall... Quite an unique post from Quizzy
Just do it!
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"Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years." — Ed Bicknell
What a great line. And this is exactly my thoughts on Guy as well. I criticise him a big deal all the time because we probably have opposed tastes in everything, on the other hand, I respect Mark and understand he won't be working with an idiot for 40 years straight in a partnership lasting longer than his marriages, and I know I'm in the wrong, just sometimes can't help myself because the only idiot here is me. Not even starting to talk about Guy being practically the only window into MK world fans ever had for like 30 years.
We should print and frame this post, to hang it on the AMIT wall... Quite an unique post from Quizzy
Just do it!
*proceeds to hang only the part where I say I'm an idiot* :lol :lol :lol
Seriously, misguiding people is ok. Misguyding Guy is normal, misguiding me is normal. Guy is not a weird tape-loving Hawaiian shirt lava-lamp maniac who loves to move microphones all the time. I'm not a psycho who trolls and bullies everyone on this forum and constantly criticises everything. We all have our weaknesses, but it's our strengths and light side we should ultimately be paying attention to.
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I'm very proud that Ed Bicknell decided, through Chris Whitten, to express himself writing to me.bindont know why I deserved such an honour, but it's a highlight for me as a Dire Straits fan, I always consider Ed as another band member, like George Martin was called the 5th Beatle, and I always defended that Ed had a big role, together with MK's talent, in the success of the band.
I also had the luck to cross my path with him twice at the RAH and he was very nice, kind and funny in both occasions.
Ed knows a good man when he sees one Julio!
Ed gave me a set list at the end of the NHB gig in Stirling in 97, what a guy.
Thats the most beautiful thing I've been told, I never expected that from a Scotish, LOL
Thanks amigo!
It’s true, I’ve known you a long time and you are a great friend.
I love that we argue about all this stuff but we never fall out about it, because we realise that none of it really matters one bit. :)
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Epic post!
I think what most characterizes the relationship between MK and EB, which was the glue that held the band together, is the humor they shared. MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh. This became the fuel and energy to carry on over long distances, and it welds a group together.
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Epic post!
I think what most characterizes the relationship between MK and EB, which was the glue that held the band together, is the humor they shared. MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh. This became the fuel and energy to carry on over long distances, and it welds a group together.
Mark once said he'd rather go to a cemetery and dig graves than work with somebody who lacks a sense of humour. I always say if God wants to punish a person, he deprives this person of a sense of humour. Mark is hilarious. He jokes nearly in all interviews from the day he started doing them. I remember watching one of the meet-and-greet videos where Mark kicked a ukulele and thought — boy, they have quite some fun.
I can't imagine how many hilarious stories and anecdotes never made it to the public. All my favourite artists, actors, musicians, scientists, poets, whoever it is, are first-class jokers. One of the reasons why I shared this Ed's interview was I just laughed so hard my jaw started hurting. Laughing is the best weapon to deal with anything, especially when you're in dire straits. It's all about optimism and joy.
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Epic post!
I think what most characterizes the relationship between MK and EB, which was the glue that held the band together, is the humor they shared. MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh. This became the fuel and energy to carry on over long distances, and it welds a group together.
Mark once said he'd rather go to a cemetery and dig graves than work with somebody who lacks a sense of humour. I always say if God wants to punish a person, he deprives this person of a sense of humour. Mark is hilarious. He jokes nearly in all interviews from the day he started doing them. I remember watching one of the meet-and-greet videos where Mark kicked a ukulele and thought — boy, they have quite some fun.
I can't imagine how many hilarious stories and anecdotes never made it to the public. All my favourite artists, actors, musicians, scientists, poets, whoever it is, are first-class jokers. One of the reasons why I shared this Ed's interview was I just laughed so hard my jaw started hurting. Laughing is the best weapon to deal with anything, especially when you're in dire straits. It's all about optimism and joy.
So true man, he's always made little jokes, but they're terribly effective, especially the famous "is anyone hurt?", "let's go girls" or "you and I'll go first, then the others, good luck"...and so on....
But at the end of the day, we're all like that, we do a job that we may or may not like, but if we do it in good company and with a laugh, it's much better!
But Ed ! Man thx for the video, Ed is a killer 😂😂
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MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh.
I only ever saw the serious.
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MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh.
I only ever saw the serious.
You know better than anyone that timing is everything.
Seems to me you were unfortunate in that you worked with him at maybe the most unhappy he has ever been in his life.
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Yes.
There were a lot of smiles on stage during the BIA tour and probably a lot of laughs. OES was pretty grim from beginning to end. Not only Mark, but Alan was also a dark presence.
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Yes.
There were a lot of smiles on stage during the BIA tour and probably a lot of laughs. OES was pretty grim from beginning to end. Not only Mark, but Alan was also a dark presence.
So much more impressive knowing this, that you guys gave us such superb live experiences back in 1992. Knowing that the working experience was not exactly a fun place to be. I would never have thought that back then, it was hidden very well.
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MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh.
I only ever saw the serious.
Sorry to hear that, maybe it's because he wasn't happy and decided to move on?
However, as the leader of a group, I'll be responsible for making sure everyone, at least as many people as possible (because you can't please everyone), I'll make sure the mood and atmosphere at work is pleasant and bearable, at the end of the day, we don't have to be best friends, but getting along for the trip is cool! Sad.
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Especially being so long, more than a year.
Anyway, most of us made the best of it. Many of the shows were fantastic. Fabulous arenas and stadiums, thousands of crazy enthusiastic fans.
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Another message from Ed B:
Hi there Skid Marks,
I'm going to break my own rule and send this response, more as a thank you for the gratifying and kind comments about my previous post than anything, they were much appreciated ( and genuinely surprised me.)
There seems to be uncertainty about who played bass on the BIA trax.
After checking with Neil Dorfsman, and from my own direct observations and putting the credits together ….
John played on SFA, MFN, WOL (yes),YLT, TMTS
Tony Levin played on RATR, WW, BIA.
Neil Jason played on OW.
I’m sure you can figure out why the credits were done the way they were …..and now you know what drum bits Terry did and were kept and what Omar Hakim REdid in Montserrat.
That just leaves Jack RIP who put guitar synth on TMTS ( for which, incidentally, M wrote a completely different set of lyrics just to entertain the crew at soundchecks ie filthy, disgusting, REALLY disgusting and hilarious. )
Pottel is entirely correct re Chet’s personality.
The FIRST time I met him in Nashville airport, he introduced himself “ hi, ah’m Chet At At At uuurgh Atkins, sheeeeet I got me the biggest dick in N N N….Nashville. “
Since M and I had only just arrived I don't know how he knew that but you get the picture ( no I don’t mean of his dick).
The absolute BEST guy.
Out there Elvis stories , a true gent RIP and a privilege to have fondled his teeth.
WOL.
I had been travelling and when I got back to NY I popped into the Power Station where Neil and Mark were recording his vocals ( no, not together! )
They had just put up WOL which I'd not heard before.
“ What’s this?” I said.
“ Ah, nothing, it's just a B side “ responded M. I don't recall Neil saying anything and I’ve no idea where this idea that he ‘hated” it came from ( maybe he does, he’s 99% deaf anyway…that’s good in his line of work ).
“ But that’s a hit song” …I squeaked which led to a 5 minute debate about whether it should be included on the album or not.
“ So it's good enough to be a B side but it's NOT good enough to go on the record?” I asked.
Sheer brilliance on my part, I mean COME ON …...M rarely if ever took a commercial view of his music so just as well I was around. Ha! ( The band weren’t there so not involved ).
So it went on the album and the single A side version sold more Worldwide than MFN.
It was “inspired” by the organ sound of The Animals…...a fave of both M’s and mine when we wuz yung, a Farfisa I think.
That’s a v kind comment Jabent.
George Martin was one of my closest, closest friends up to his passing …a bit of a hero as a person (not because of the FABS ).
Same goes for Peter Grant ( def not because of Zeppelin but because I have a natural affinity with thugs and gangsters ).
Incidentally Pavel, how do you know Guy has lava lamps, that’ s supposed to be a secret ?
Now, today’s star prize, YOU, Pavel, get 11 out of 10 for your comment re humour , the never stated ingredient that makes it all work or in the absence of, not work.
Absolutely crucial and we all had …well maybe not ALL, but most of us did until around 1990 when certain members of our family lost theirs big time.
Again Chris W is 100% right.
He only saw “serious” because that was all there WAS to see and Dusty Springfield’s comment is extremely perceptive.
Extremely, as is Chris’ about BIA and he wasn’t even on that !
That was a career highlight for sure.
LOTS of laughs , great lineup, great music, amazing audiences and once in a while, a girl with no teeth and a wooden leg would lurch into view and tap dance ( no offence intended to the one legged).
Camerado is right, absolutely, the BAND and CREW made OES work and became experts in disguising the sheer misery and toxicity of it and ultimately that’s why I eventually quit ( it had a quite “disturbing” effect on us all I think, mentally and physically ).
And Chris very subtly refers to another “issue” which you can now speculate about.
I hinted about that in the Tribute band bit of the previous post and I’m NOT trying to be coy, but all this really needs to go in a movie, a TV series, hardback book, paperback book, audio book, DVD, CD, an AI version of someone who isn’t me reading it to someone who isn’t you, all for £9.99 including VAT , AND a book tour.
That’s it. I’m out of here, apologies for being a bit more serious in this one. .
The Colonel.
No, not that one.
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More fantastic stuff for us keyboard detectives to pick through, thanks so much to Ed and of course Chris for facilitating. :)
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More fantastic stuff for us keyboard detectives to pick through, thanks so much to Ed and of course Chris for facilitating. :)
People say laughing prolongs your life. Well, Ed has already given me a couple of extra years to live, thank you very much :lol
Regarding lava lamps, you don't need to be Hercule Poirot to notice Guy loves them, besides, I studied the history of their creation and they are AWESOME. A completely analogue experience, it warms up like a tube amplifier, each of them is genuinely unique, and it looks cool. I'd like to have one.
It's a combination of attention to detail, good memory and experience of being a fan and like everybody else here doing, according to EB, "what being a fan is about".
I never make stuff up and usually back my reasoning and deduction if not completely by facts, but with at least something real, either a quote I remember, a photo, a fact or the absence of a fact because it's also always a good clue. That's why I'm so offended when I get told I live in fantasy. If anything, I steer AWAY from fantasy as much as possible.
There's no smoke without fire and simple deduction can go a long way. For instance... A severe lack of facts and first-hand evidence multiplied by the ongoing real engagement towards the band that ceased to exist 30 years ago multiplied by a lot of controversy and speculation on forums = the man who cares steps up and clears a lot of the misconceptions. Thanks for being this man who cares, Ed, and of course, Chris. You rock!
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I could read Ed's comments and listen to his interviews for hours. He truly has a knack for storytelling and keeping one engaged.
Write a book, Ed! I'll buy it!
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Thanks very much Ed for writing again a post for us, we really appreciate all you've done for the band in the past and the great influence and role you had in their success, I always insist in considering you as another DS member almost of importance like MK, I'm sure that in some situations even more!
I guess that the person you are mentioning in your comments is Alan. As I posted in other thread as far as I know The Straits divided in two bands because Alan wanted to write songs for the band and play them (they got to play one titled "Jesus street" in several concerts) and Chris and Terence only wanted to play the hits. Whitten 's comment about Alan darkness during OES tour makes me think he's the one you are talking about.
That darkness comments remind me that Phil Palmer wrote in his book that Alan was a joker and did some ones during the tour like painting a wall in a Spanish hotel (Cáceres) with joke draws of certain members of the band, being MK the star of those joke draws! As Phil mentioned in his book, Alan payed very happily to the hotel for all the damage telling it worthed every penny!
I hope we can read more from you Ed, as I also told, nobody here is going to put in doubt anything you tell us, who would dare!
Also, man, you are full of stories, and have the funniest way to tell them, please think about that book of memories!
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I was scrolling through this post reading it and hoped it would be endlessly long. I was sad seeing it end which is not the usual reaction with long posts ;D
Thank you very much for taking the time, really clearing things up and being so precise about everything. It seems that the combination of MK and you made a big unique world wide success unevitable. You seem to be the best thing that could have happened to the band, Ed.
Feel free to come back here whenever you like. It is such a joy to read your stuff that I would also be happy to read about anything else from you. All this knowledge about musicians, bands, the industry is so precious.
So again thanks a lot!
LE
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I LOVE you, Ed. Marry me.
That was Fantastic.
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I completely agree with others! Would be great to read more, not just about Dire Straits but your journey in general.
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Thanks Chris and Ed. The part regarding the recording of WOL totally makes sense and Mark still appears to be deaf at times. Guy may be a loyal right hand but he's no EB.
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Thanks Chris and Ed. The part regarding the recording of WOL totally makes sense and Mark still appears to be deaf at times. Guy may be a loyal right hand but he's no EB.
I have always thought that the style and feeling of Walk life was quite different compared to general atmosphere of the album and thus the consideration for a B side.
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That's why I'm so offended when I get told I live in fantasy. If anything, I steer AWAY from fantasy as much as possible.
I think Ed's first message was to clear up a lot of discussion on the forum that was wide of the mark regarding the facts.
I feel I have corrected a lot of misinformation in my time at the forum, from the perspective of someone who was there for 1.5 years.
I think you can celebrate Ed's contributions this week without seeking to gloss over some past missteps.
Fact is, fans do a lot of guess work, especially when there is a dearth of fact available.
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I have always thought that the style and feeling of Walk life was quite different compared to general atmosphere of the album and thus the consideration for a B side.
One of DS' biggest early hits was 'Twisting By The Pool', a record they seem to have wanted to distance themselves from since. I see Walk Of Life in the same mould as 'Twisting...' albeit a lot better. Again it was a big hit. Strange that Mark kept writing obvious hit records in that 'rock and roll' style, but wasn't that confident about them.
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many thanks again Ed ! :thumbsup
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Just catching up on this, thanks to Ed for his insights and to CW and Julio for facilitating. Amazing stuff. I'd definitely buy a book written by Ed!
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That's why I'm so offended when I get told I live in fantasy. If anything, I steer AWAY from fantasy as much as possible.
I think Ed's first message was to clear up a lot of discussion on the forum that was wide of the mark regarding the facts.
I feel I have corrected a lot of misinformation in my time at the forum, from the perspective of someone who was there for 1.5 years.
I think you can celebrate Ed's contributions this week without seeking to gloss over some past missteps.
Fact is, fans do a lot of guess work, especially when there is a dearth of fact available.
Another fact is, even by reading your and Ed's messages you can tell fans often get a lot of facts straight despite the lack of information and first-hand evidence, and frankly, given how little fans truly have, a whole bunch of stuff IS known and correctly observed. I think this miracle should be as celebrated as the fact Dire Straits' manager and drummer stepped up into the discussion.
We are all human beings and we are all making mistakes sometimes, and dare I say it — I don't think even you and Ed are 100% right all the time, it's just a perspective. A valuable, first-hand, indisputable, but still a perspective. We have a mutual enemy which is misbelief, and we're all brothers in arms here to fight it with all we've got so as not to end in dire straits. So why worry?
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It's just sad when guess work is used to lambast people....often quite abusively.
If you weren't there, it's not a crime to post positive guesses and positive thoughts.
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"Dusty Springfield’s comment" :lol
Ed, if I die out of laughter, it will be your fault.
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It's just sad when guess work is used to lambast people....often quite abusively.
If you weren't there, it's not a crime to post positive guesses and positive thoughts.
Chris, you have to understand that what you would read in a fan forum is a mix of opinions and "facts" that we've read or listen in articles or interviews, and most of that opinions are influenced by those articles and interviews, and many times is needed more than one side of the story to know what are accurate facts and what not.
I understand that you still feel hurt by some of our opinions about your time in the band, and you're right as we knew very little or almost nothing about your time in the band until you came here and enlighten us with everything regarding your period in the band, and we're thankful about it. Fans we are always looking for facts so when we discuss in the future we can base on that more than about rumours and opinions based on false facts.
Again, thanks for help us to understand better your period in the band, and everything related about you, with the band, before and after. We can be more positive now as we know facts we didn't when we only related to our opinions. We own you gratitude.
There's a million things all of us we would like to ask Ed specially after John Illsley's book that have a lot of facts quite contrary to things we've read in articles or interviews during all this years, most of them probably for the past of time that mix memories. Specially about Terry Williams not being in the OES record, only at the beginning of it, and not being considered for the tour, being known for being a great rock drummer for the band, and also all that happened between MK and Jack after the BIA tour, that we know from Jack Sonni podcast and made us feel so sad about how MK treated him. I'm sure someone could point to that podcast, I can't now as I'm on my phone and it's hard to have multiple tabs at the time, lol
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Also interesting to me that Mark is the one who thought Walk of Life was a throwaway b-side and Neil and the band (and Ed) had to talk him into including it. The way I remember hearing it was that Neil hated it and didn't think it fit with the rest of the album and Mark and the boys overruled him.
Surprisingly, Wikipedia gets this fact right: "Mark Knopfler had not originally intended "Walk of Life" for the album, but rather as a B-side to one of the singles. Dire Straits manager Ed Bicknell heard it when it was being mixed and convinced Knopfler to include it on the album at the last minute"
To be honest, Neil's version is kinda more plausible and makes more sense. From which planet do you need to arrive to think Walk Of Life is a throwaway B-side song? After writing it yourself? Like, what? Probably planet Knopfler. If it was a demo or something then maybe yes. But the way it sounds on the album is obvious instant hit. It could explain the random nature of bonus songs we have today if Mark is so unsure about his hits. That sounds like a good question to Mark.
WOL was first issued as SFA flip side.
It was a surprise to me to see it re released as a main single later.
And I quite understand that WOL wasn't the kind of song Mark was focusing on during that time.
Let's do a little uptempo country song and have some fun time.
BTW BIA seems to be an album without song recorded and left out from the CD.
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Thank you Ed B and Chris W
Have been a member forum for 12 years, since Privateering was launched. Reading time after time, enjoying debate, posts and news
When i registered, this was only a chat space between fans
But now, we are the luckiest fans in the world
Thank you Ed and Chris
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Yes, it's a great joy to read posts by musicians of your beloved band. Amazing time. Thanks again Ed and Chris.
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Very glad to have another entertaining and enlightening post from Ed.
Glad to hear about John's playing on BIA. It seems hard to understand why they would go with another player for BIA rather than YLT, but there it is. Hard to guess. And Neil Jason's comments on playing on other songs turn out to be misleading ultimately.
As for WOL, I have come across the idea of the band overruling the producer to include it many times, so that was an old established myth. Glad to learn the facts.
Chris, not sure that Twisting was a hit, but it was the single from the EP. Two Young Lovers remained a staple live though (BIA and your tour of course), and was definitely the better choice.
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It's just sad when guess work is used to lambast people....often quite abusively.
If you weren't there, it's not a crime to post positive guesses and positive thoughts.
Chris, you have to understand that what you would read in a fan forum is a mix of opinions and "facts" that we've read or listen in articles or interviews, and most of that opinions are influenced by those articles and interviews, and many times is needed more than one side of the story to know what are accurate facts and what not.
I understand that you still feel hurt by some of our opinions about your time in the band, and you're right as we knew very little or almost nothing about your time in the band until you came here and enlighten us with everything regarding your period in the band, and we're thankful about it. Fans we are always looking for facts so when we discuss in the future we can base on that more than about rumours and opinions based on false facts.
Again, thanks for help us to understand better your period in the band, and everything related about you, with the band, before and after. We can be more positive now as we know facts we didn't when we only related to our opinions. We own you gratitude.
There's a million things all of us we would like to ask Ed specially after John Illsley's book that have a lot of facts quite contrary to things we've read in articles or interviews during all this years, most of them probably for the past of time that mix memories. Specially about Terry Williams not being in the OES record, only at the beginning of it, and not being considered for the tour, being known for being a great rock drummer for the band, and also all that happened between MK and Jack after the BIA tour, that we know from Jack Sonni podcast and made us feel so sad about how MK treated him. I'm sure someone could point to that podcast, I can't now as I'm on my phone and it's hard to have multiple tabs at the time, lol
I must confess I do have a bias towards some people or things, and all of them have provided reasons for me to have a bias which I can always elaborate on, rarely do they do something to get rid of this bias, as people generally do not change much, and I feel happy each time this bias gets destroyed when it seldomly happens. I do not feel good about having a bias in the first place, but I can't stop it from appearing either. Most importantly, I realise I'm an easy target for biased attacks myself just because I'm so straightforward and active, so I do my best to address any complaints and clear out any misconceptions about me.
Getting a bit philosophical here, my point is there's always a person behind ones and zeros and forum posts, a person behind a tribute band, a person behind legendary hits and classic lines, and people aren't perfect. Far from perfect, in fact. It's important to call people out when they are wrong and praise them when they are right, it's something the AMIT forum has gotten very good at lately thanks to all of us, CW and EB included. Ed's message is nothing but calling us all out, and there's nothing better than a healthy doze of quality, just-what-the-doctor-ordered criticism, everybody's happy about that.
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Sometimes I don't understand a single word that I read.
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Wow, it's pretty hard for me to keep up with all the new information.
Thanks Ed and Chris for all your contributions that keep me on my toes. :thumbsup
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Sometimes I don't understand a single word that I read.
I'm not sure it's an answer to my post, as it doesn't contain any quotes and names, just in case here's a simplified (haha) map of my thinking for you (I'm truly sorry):
Chris said he's upset when people guess stuff and "quite abusively" lambast somebody they never knew and commit a crime (apparently) by writing negative thoughts about them if you "weren't there" —> You (jbaent) wrote a polite answer explaining it's not about offending people but expressing opinions —> My addition to that is I do sometimes tend to criticise a person based on what they said, did or never did, their ACTIONS affect my attitude, it's not guessing. Actions speak louder than words.
Actions speak louder than words even when Chris and Ed find time to write messages on this forum, work on clearing misconceptions, getting facts straight. They care about Dire Straits, they care about fans, they care about truth, they care about legacy. You can't take this away from them just like you can't take away the fact Mark was able to pull off an entire 1.5-year world tour without a flinch while being in probably the shittiest place in his life since becoming famous. It's an ACTION.
I wonder what I need to guess if a misleading name of a tribute band misleads fans into thinking it's the real deal. They did this action, they got a response. Where guessing is involved here? Where exactly guessing is involved in any of the "controversial" topics for that matter? People do bad things, people get bad responses. People do good things, people get good responses. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Newton's third law. It's not rocket science!
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"Dusty Springfield’s comment" :lol
Ed, if I die out of laughter, it will be your fault.
I only wanna be with you Quizzy :)
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WOL.
I had been travelling and when I got back to NY I popped into the Power Station where Neil and Mark were recording his vocals ( no, not together! )
They had just put up WOL which I'd not heard before.
“ What’s this?” I said.
“ Ah, nothing, it's just a B side “ responded M. I don't recall Neil saying anything and I’ve no idea where this idea that he ‘hated” it came from ( maybe he does, he’s 99% deaf anyway…that’s good in his line of work ).
“ But that’s a hit song” …I squeaked which led to a 5 minute debate about whether it should be included on the album or not.
“ So it's good enough to be a B side but it's NOT good enough to go on the record?” I asked.
Sheer brilliance on my part, I mean COME ON …...M rarely if ever took a commercial view of his music so just as well I was around. Ha! ( The band weren’t there so not involved ).
So it went on the album and the single A side version sold more Worldwide than MFN.
Sorry Ed. I will stop posting stuff like this, as I obviously misremember or conflate stories I heard 25-40 years ago.
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Thanks again, Chris and Ed! Second best post in the history of AMIT. May we get a third best? ;)
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That's why I'm so offended when I get told I live in fantasy. If anything, I steer AWAY from fantasy as much as possible.
I think Ed's first message was to clear up a lot of discussion on the forum that was wide of the mark regarding the facts.
I feel I have corrected a lot of misinformation in my time at the forum, from the perspective of someone who was there for 1.5 years.
I think you can celebrate Ed's contributions this week without seeking to gloss over some past missteps.
Fact is, fans do a lot of guess work, especially when there is a dearth of fact available.
i keep hoping you stay on and not get demotivated too much by the little amount of negativism that pops up every now and then (some may interpret this as a grave understatement, up to you)
the insight you keep delivering is like being on a treasure hunt for us fans.
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The problem is when you treat public forums like you're walking in the forest with your buddies, talking nonsense you think will never reach who you talk nonsense about (or someome close to them). Suddenly, someone with actual first hand experience enters the chat and if you used big words on just guessing, you will often look (and feel?) like an idiot.
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The problem is when you treat public forums like you're walking in the forest with your buddies, talking nonsense you think will never reach who you talk nonsense about (or someome close to them). Suddenly, someone with actual first hand experience enters the chat and if you used big words on just guessing, you will often look (and feel?) like an idiot.
Ed is polite, very in-depth, extremely mindful, very funny and smart in his responses. He notices and understands everything, almost shockingly so. I noticed that the most "big words" and nonsense on this forum come from people being offended, usually in response to an even harsher attack or misunderstanding. If the discussion stays within polite borders and is properly carried out, surprise, surprise, nobody gets offended. It's not a miracle that I haven't seen a single negative comment about Ed or Ed's thoughts yet.
And who said this magical someone who enters the chat never talks nonsense, never uses big words, is never wrong, never misinterprets words, and is always right? Ed in a 2012 interview said something along the lines that The Rolling Stones will stop playing live in the next 10 years. Was he wrong? Technically, maybe, but he meant a completely different thing. Another ball game is when you (not you personally) think that everything that anyone besides you thinks is nonsense and guesses by default.
What you mean by "big words" is a big question as well. I said "Having a pizza delivery guy in your lineup" and for some reason, I was accused of offending Alan. I wasn't talking about Alan at all, I meant that a lot of acts/companies/people in general use the fact of having sometimes not crucial part of something bigger on hand as an exaggerated advantage. Do I say it about Alan precisely? No, I never meant that. People get to their conclusions themselves. A lot of lessons to learn here.
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That was an entertaining read. Ed clearly has balls (or at least he likes to mention them).
My all-time favorite posts on the matter, however, remain the ones called "Let's See You" and "Terminal of Tribute to". I'm hoping for more of those!
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"Skid Marks" ;D
This is truly amazing. Thanks again, Ed, for taking the time. (And thanks so much to Chris and Julio.) And as for audio book: I'd buy it even if the voice belonged to someone with a heavy Indian accent, released on Betamax and had to be ordered from North Korea. Though a printed version will do just fine :-*
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The problem is when you treat public forums like you're walking in the forest with your buddies, talking nonsense you think will never reach who you talk nonsense about (or someome close to them). Suddenly, someone with actual first hand experience enters the chat and if you used big words on just guessing, you will often look (and feel?) like an idiot.
Ed is polite, very in-depth, extremely mindful, very funny and smart in his responses. He notices and understands everything, almost shockingly so. I noticed that the most "big words" and nonsense on this forum come from people being offended, usually in response to an even harsher attack or misunderstanding. If the discussion stays within polite borders and is properly carried out, surprise, surprise, nobody gets offended. It's not a miracle that I haven't seen a single negative comment about Ed or Ed's thoughts yet.
And who said this magical someone who enters the chat never talks nonsense, never uses big words, is never wrong, never misinterprets words, and is always right? Ed in a 2012 interview said something along the lines that The Rolling Stones will stop playing live in the next 10 years. Was he wrong? Technically, maybe, but he meant a completely different thing. Another ball game is when you (not you personally) think that everything that anyone besides you thinks is nonsense and guesses by default.
What you mean by "big words" is a big question as well. I said "Having a pizza delivery guy in your lineup" and for some reason, I was accused of offending Alan. I wasn't talking about Alan at all, I meant that a lot of acts/companies/people in general use the fact of having sometimes not crucial part of something bigger on hand as an exaggerated advantage. Do I say it about Alan precisely? No, I never meant that. People get to their conclusions themselves. A lot of lessons to learn here.
It's more in the sense of downplaying people's contribution in DS, making "bold" (as in ridiculous) statements about people's carreer choices, accusing them of things without solid evidence and so on. We don't know who will read and interact with this chat/forum. Like, there were people who obviously never thought Chris W would enter this forum when they commented on his contribution the OES tour. Critiquing someone who is not here will always be something else than doing the same to someone who is around to defend themselves and to actually read what someone writes. And then it's really easy to look like a fool when the big words come back at the author.
I think the biggest lesson is to be precise, so people won't have to guess what you actually mean.
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The problem is when you treat public forums like you're walking in the forest with your buddies, talking nonsense you think will never reach who you talk nonsense about (or someome close to them). Suddenly, someone with actual first hand experience enters the chat and if you used big words on just guessing, you will often look (and feel?) like an idiot.
Ed is polite, very in-depth, extremely mindful, very funny and smart in his responses. He notices and understands everything, almost shockingly so. I noticed that the most "big words" and nonsense on this forum come from people being offended, usually in response to an even harsher attack or misunderstanding. If the discussion stays within polite borders and is properly carried out, surprise, surprise, nobody gets offended. It's not a miracle that I haven't seen a single negative comment about Ed or Ed's thoughts yet.
And who said this magical someone who enters the chat never talks nonsense, never uses big words, is never wrong, never misinterprets words, and is always right? Ed in a 2012 interview said something along the lines that The Rolling Stones will stop playing live in the next 10 years. Was he wrong? Technically, maybe, but he meant a completely different thing. Another ball game is when you (not you personally) think that everything that anyone besides you thinks is nonsense and guesses by default.
What you mean by "big words" is a big question as well. I said "Having a pizza delivery guy in your lineup" and for some reason, I was accused of offending Alan. I wasn't talking about Alan at all, I meant that a lot of acts/companies/people in general use the fact of having sometimes not crucial part of something bigger on hand as an exaggerated advantage. Do I say it about Alan precisely? No, I never meant that. People get to their conclusions themselves. A lot of lessons to learn here.
It's more in the sense of downplaying people's contribution in DS, making "bold" (as in ridiculous) statements about people's carreer choices, accusing them of things without solid evidence and so on. We don't know who will read and interact with this chat/forum. Like, there were people who obviously never thought Chris W would enter this forum when they commented on his contribution the OES tour. Critiquing someone who is not here will always be something else than doing the same to someone who is around to defend themselves and to actually read what someone writes. And then it's really easy to look like a fool when the big words come back at the author.
I think the biggest lesson is to be precise, so people won't have to guess what you actually mean.
That's very well articulated, Knut. I can say for myself I feel really bad discussing someone behind their backs, that's awful. I literally feel physical pain, and honestly, I should probably stay away from social media and discussions as I'm extremely, desperately inclined to fight for truth all the time even in 1-1 discussions, and as you can witness here, can do it forever, often using exaggeration, proof by contradiction and other logic tricks to get somewhere. And when I clash with people who take it too seriously, it turns into a nuclear explosion and a negative loop.
I just love Mark's music, the history around it and truth, and like everybody else, that's why I'm here. It's a good place, and I'm happy that even such important people as you-all-know-who-by-now chimed in and spoke, that's awesome. Getting to the truth without people in question is impossible anyway, and if anybody else drops by to clear misconceptions or say that I'm an a-hole, that would make us all happy.
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"I just love Mark's music"
Like all of us. But not everyone has the ease and lightness in writing as you do. I think of myself :(
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Heads up, there’s a really good feature on Scott Walker’s Climate of Hunter album in the current issue of Mojo with some great contributions from Ed.