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Author Topic: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011  (Read 52097 times)

OnlineJF

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2011, 09:17:53 PM »
Quote
It's important to note that technical ability is often associated only with speed, that is if you can fire off 10000 notes per second you would often be considered "technical wizard", whereas it is not only speed that is the challenge but also accuracy and ability to stretch your fingers to reach odd notes within one chord for example.

totally agree, I've always found easier to play lead licks ala Hendrix, SRV or Mark than Andy Summers chords.

It's the electric guitar paradox : when you play Hey joe, Sultans, or Smoke on the Water, you can make a better impression to the crowd than if you play Bring on the night or Message in the bottle.

I can play the first ones (well...sort of), but didn't ever managed to the seconds

At my wedding, I have played guitar behind my head, just to make the show, and eveyone said : "wow, you're great !"  :D

but of course not, at the time I even couldn't play Roxanne properly  :-[  which is considered as a "basic" guitar tune, but believe me, if you want to play the right cords, it's not as simple as it seems :(


Quote
Fingerstyle all the way, man. It has it's limits, though

of course, it all depends on the style you want to play

one advantage of finger picking I like very much : you can play 2 "discontinued" strings at the same time (e.g. for the Nashwille scale)
But what I miss the more : power, and screaming notes ala SRV or Gilmour. then you need a pick

And if you want funky rhythm, you need it too
e.g. the wha part on wag the dog is played (by Mark I guess) with a pick to have this scat-scat thing

Some players have solved the problem : they played pick and fingers at the same time (Atkins, Lee, Oldfield...)

Offlineemilianomk

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2011, 10:02:48 PM »
If mark dies  he will climb to the top 20 automatically, so Its better now

OfflineFletch

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2011, 10:12:03 PM »
I think Marks strength has always been blowing people away with inventive, tasteful licks that always fit the context and emotion of the song. The fact that the songs are brilliant doesn't hurt.

Although I think Jackal is a tad harsh. Back in the early eighties there wouldn't be many that could play Sultans in the unique way it was played live. Sure there would be dozens of gun country players who could play as fast using the chordal technique, but I think the uniqueness really does push his "technical" ability a little higher.

Btw, I love your take on Tommy E, he is a livewire wizard that's awesome to watch and boring to listen to. His technical ability is second to none.
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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2011, 10:57:05 PM »
I think Marks strength has always been blowing people away with inventive, tasteful licks that always fit the context and emotion of the song. The fact that the songs are brilliant doesn't hurt.

Although I think Jackal is a tad harsh. Back in the early eighties there wouldn't be many that could play Sultans in the unique way it was played live. Sure there would be dozens of gun country players who could play as fast using the chordal technique, but I think the uniqueness really does push his "technical" ability a little higher.

Btw, I love your take on Tommy E, he is a livewire wizard that's awesome to watch and boring to listen to. His technical ability is second to none.

Agree 100% with your first sentence. Maybe I was a bit harsh - I'm open for correction and discussion :) But I guess the main reason I said it was to show that there are other players between him and those at the very very top technically, but that he still should get a high overall score. Exactly where he should be ranked on each criterion doesn't really matter. At any rate, I was delighted to see the revival his guitar playing has had during this tour. I hope the new album will be full of beautiful licks, rich and lush tones and wonderful tunes. He's still got it.

Offlinevgonis

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2011, 09:59:58 PM »
Now that is a topic! (I must have said this thing for at least 10 topics, but still,,,)
Well I dare say that these polls are worthless. In any aspect, but one:  I only look at these lists to discover any guitarists that I am not aware of already. Apart from the usual suspects, guitar heroes and gods(EC, has lost his deity status long ago),  I think that the rest are there for reasons that are a bit beyond us.

The "contemporary" factor is very important. Q have voted Radiohead 's "OK computer" the most important record in history, a couple of years after its release, and Johnny Greenwood was the new guitar hero, included in every guitarist poll. Any spot of him now, in the new Radiohead records
?

The new tone (unique sound) is something that easily catches the tired ear of the old magazine poll-voter. But many times it is nothing more than "fireworks",  a lucky turn of the knob in the amp that did the trick. Edge surely knows about this! ;) But of course if there are fine compositions that fit this new sound, it is fine by me. U2, up to Achtung baby, produced at least 4 great albums! And even before them, Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, Peter Green, Pete Townshed, Jimi Hendrix, and many others  built a career because they were there to use all the technical innovations for guitars, in popular songs. Yes, most of them had the touch as well, but what made them guitar heroes was the combination of the two. The LUCK factor.  

Kurt Cobain, is the obvious example, that these polls are worthless. No matter how influential he is, we have to consider why he has become so. I believe that most of Nirvana records were well marketed products, with a bit of the punk ethics that appeal to the young fan base that back in the early nineties were the big consumer target group. Nevermind have some catchy tunes, but apart from that nothing else to show. It is not even their best record! Grunge was the hip thing then, and Cobain's suicide in a way, fulfilled in the minds of the fans the rebellious  nature of the musician and his music. Of course all this has nothing to do with the actual music or his skill as a guitarist.

Neil Young (someone mentioned him, as not being that good) is a genius of a guitarist. His time swifts and peculiar pitch is one of a kind.  And he is so unique that few can actually imitate him, but since he has sold so much he is influential. Even Kurt quoted him in his suicide note, with a line from "Hey hey, my my", which actually mentioned Johnny Rotten. How about this connection .

When Mark Knopfler stepped in, the rock world was full of guitar heroes, and since punk was well on, guitar anti-heroes. (Who voted for Steve Jones?  almost nobody) However his finger picking style was unique but not easily copied. It is a peculiar thing, but the classical guitarists that can actually play fluently all the finger picking style of MK, are somehow snobbish towards Rock music, and only lately, the boundaries between classical and rock music are erased. So yes I do expect many guitarists can play like MK, who actually treats his guitar as a guitar and not like another stringed instrument. Don't get me wrong, I like more technical guitarists, but in a more logical sphere. You might say for Vai "wow, how did he do that" but with MK you just don't care.  

I never spotted (maybe because these polls are for rock guitarists) Harvey Mandel, or Larry Coryell or Steve Kahn, Larry Carlton.  They have great technical ability, played in many records as session players and have their own followers as well. But they never sold that good, because they were jazz, or too near jazz. John McLaughlin usually makes it, though. Maybe that is the answer for Robert Johnson being so down in the poll, who admittedly has been influencing guitarists for 3 quarters of a century and Django Reinhardt. If MK was the one to suggest the Reinhardt music in "Metroland"OST, an extra bravo.

As for grading systems, I don't see the point. I mean, it is enjoyable to see technical guitarists on stage, but when it comes to recordings, you must have a good composition to lay the guitar. Or at least a fitting one. Listen to Vai playing at Zappa's records and you will know what I mean. By the way was Zappa included?


And yes the Andy Summers example was very good. I guess the same goes for Adrian Belew and Robert Fripp.
  

 

 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 10:36:15 PM by VGONIS2002 »
Come on, it is not funny anymore.

OfflineHophead

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2011, 04:05:06 AM »
I guess the problem with this poll is that it includes a few jazz and blues guitarists on a 'rock' guitarist poll..out of respect for the likes of Robert Johnson, Buddy Guy, B.B.King, Les Paul, T-Bone Walker, Muddy Waters..and a few others..without taking into account that it is omitting greats in those genres..the likes of Al Dimeola..Django Reinhardt..Larry Coryell (saw him live with Eleventh House way back when...great show!)...Roy Buchanan (can't believe he was left off!). And yes..Frank was on the list...but too far back to even mention...waay below where he deserved to be.
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Offlineriton

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2011, 12:34:40 AM »
The fact is MK is not the best guitarist and who is he ???, but he has the privilege to be recognizable between one thousand, have a feeling and a sense of the exceptional melodie and especially to be a rare of very big guitarist who composes the musics which had and continues has to make him famous and so unique.
A lot of great guitarists has been famous with a cover songs or they never wrote an album.
Music and guitar's love are  not a competitition but this classification is strange and not very fair.
I'm very objective about the music and the guitarists but for example  neither EC  or David Gilmour can not carry me as Mark during a concert..

Just point of view.

regards.


OfflinePottel

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2011, 07:23:52 AM »
da knopf has a shared number 1 spot in my book (guess who the other numero uno is...)
any Knopfler, Floyd or Dylan will do....

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2011, 07:38:47 AM »
da knopf has a shared number 1 spot in my book (guess who the other numero uno is...)

For sure it can't be Gavid Dilmour.

OfflinePottel

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2011, 11:11:09 AM »
da knopf has a shared number 1 spot in my book (guess who the other numero uno is...)

For sure it can't be Gavid Dilmour.
for sure it is (as ze germans would say...for sure!)
any Knopfler, Floyd or Dylan will do....

OnlineJF

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2011, 09:37:10 PM »
I guess also for psycho-speed thrash metal fingerpicking would be a bit out of place.

I have a french itw from 80. The journalist plays some tunes to Mark and ask him if he like :
EC's dobro slide on give me strengh, JJ Cale and Ry Cooder tunes.
Of course Mark obviously like it.
But then comes a Ted Nugent's tune. And Mark replies something like "No I don't like it, it's finger picking, but its sound too fat to my taste, don't you have other JJ ? " ;D
It's funny because if you think of some years later when MFN became THE Dire Straits hit, it was all the opposite of Mark liked in early 80ies.
And during the "pensa era", his tone on Heavy fuel, Calling Elvis, New Orleans, or YAYF, was more in the distorted way
Of course, it was far from Ted Nugent, but it was also far from Cooder or JJ Cale


OfflinePottel

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2011, 09:41:13 PM »
Can you share that interview on the tracker JF?
any Knopfler, Floyd or Dylan will do....

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2011, 09:50:13 PM »
I love fingerpicking for overdriven or distorted riff-based tunes like Money For Nothing. I was thinking more about shredding. Quite difficult to shred playing with your fingers.

By the way, shredding, fusion and similar styles are the probably the least interesting guitar music for me. But I must say there are some guys that I find pretty cool, Guthrie Gowan for example. He can really play anything.

 

There's also a clip on YT from a Suhr seminar where an ambulance is passing by and then Guthrie suddenly emulates the sirenes. Hilarious.

Offlineqjamesfloyd

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2011, 05:49:51 PM »
As people have been talking about the pick/fingerpick thing, here is a short interview with the great Mike Oldfield talking about his technique.
 
Knopfler, Oldfield and Gilmour is all the guitar I need.

OnlineJF

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Re: Rolling Stone Top 100 guitarists 2011
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2011, 04:29:04 PM »
Can you share that interview on the tracker JF?

I've forgot to specify : it's a paper itw, and of course in french, but I can scan it and post it here. I'll try soon :)
I guess it's from mid-late 80 because the journalist is asking Mark about his "new" schecter guitars he uses on his latest album MM :P
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 04:31:40 PM by Jean-Fran »

 

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