Post by: jbaent on January 30, 2024, 11:42:10 AM
There was a train leavin' for a big beat in a big life
Are you comin'?
I may have asked you once or twice
But I'd already left the hallway with broken lights
Some dingy landin' we used to tumble from
Where the stairs were cracked and worn, whatever
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
And the songs were pushin' harder all the time
Wasn't your fault, then again it wasn't mine
Broke, frustrated, and obsessed
You saw me as ridiculous, I guess
And I didn't know from nothing
Not even my own voice
But I knew there was something
And I knew there was no choice
I was leavin', mostly heartache
But I was in no mood to rejoice
There was so much that was wrong, whatever
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Well, maybe I'll hit the road with Bob
Or maybe hitch a ride with Van
It's all gonna happen
And I'll be a happening man
And God must still be laughing at a boy and his plans
In the streets where they were born
And the hopscotch traces, well, you can still see 'em here
The chalk lines faded and unclear
Time for me to disappear
Put my old boots back on, whatever
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6I96SxGY-c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trqIfpJTBh8
Subtitles generated automatically:
Watchs me gone it's just the dreams of a teenage kid to me it's always been the fuel that if that's the nuclear center of the whole thing the whole thing that keeps you going and um and it once the fuel from that runs out The Thrill Is Gone then you you know you're struggling all the way then um that's why I'm still you know cross the street to look at a window of guitars and you know it's just that bit of your teen years that it reminds you of and you and so you try to keep it alive I remember a few Disturbed years just trying to get going and trying to trying to do this thing it seemed so possible you know and I'd be go to the city hall and I'd see Van Morrison and the you know Orchestra e you know thing and I'd think I wish I was so wish I was doing that I'd be that's where I you know I'd be or Bob Dylan and the band at the odeon in Newcastle you know and I'd say well you know I'm going that's really that's so you reserve a place in that lineup for yourself I mean even back to the very early days with the Straits I mean you enjoyed that too didn't you that you know the original you know yeah tiny venues and and just a you know sure you've got to want it you've got to want it bad badly and uh you that'll be tested from the from the get-go you've got to want to be there and you're just walking into something that you've no idea really about especially when you start so what makes you what gives you the uh the arrogance to think that you can to to to indicate to people that you know what you're doing which is just total lie you hav't you don't know what you're doing uh but something makes you do it
Post by: kaleo74 on February 15, 2024, 10:39:55 PM
https://it.7digital.com/artist/mark-knopfler/release/watch-me-gone-37660298
Post by: Robson on February 15, 2024, 10:41:03 PM
Someone shared this on FB, it’s a snippet of the song, if you listen the end, you can hear the extract in the album presentation video - part 1 so we know it’s Watch me gone
https://it.7digital.com/artist/mark-knopfler/release/watch-me-gone-37660298
:thumbsup
Post by: Dutchessy on February 15, 2024, 10:43:08 PM
Someone shared this on FB, it’s a snippet of the song, if you listen the end, you can hear the extract in the album presentation video - part 1 so we know it’s Watch me gone
https://it.7digital.com/artist/mark-knopfler/release/watch-me-gone-37660298
Yes that was me 😉
Post by: Guitarman1972 on February 15, 2024, 11:19:33 PM
Post by: goon525 on February 16, 2024, 02:59:06 PM
Post by: Dutchessy on February 16, 2024, 03:02:25 PM
I’m just hoping that the songs we have yet to hear have a bit more energy than the two we now know a bit about.
We also know a bit of One Deep River from the video which also sounds laidback
Post by: Robson on February 16, 2024, 03:53:52 PM
Post by: richardmu on February 16, 2024, 05:34:08 PM
This will not be my song of this album. Gonna be a skipper.The backing vocals are totally not my thing.
agree, sounds total dire
Post by: Knopflerfan on February 16, 2024, 05:55:33 PM
This will not be my song of this album. Gonna be a skipper.The backing vocals are totally not my thing.
Not keen either on the backing vocals tbh
Post by: K-alberto on February 16, 2024, 07:08:14 PM
Someone shared this on FB, it’s a snippet of the song, if you listen the end, you can hear the extract in the album presentation video - part 1 so we know it’s Watch me gone
https://it.7digital.com/artist/mark-knopfler/release/watch-me-gone-37660298
Wonderful!! Sounds wonderful!!!
(I didn't want to hear snippets, but... :clap :clap :clap)
Post by: Robson on February 19, 2024, 05:06:24 PM
Post by: kaleo74 on February 19, 2024, 05:20:33 PM
three days :)
3 days for what ?
Post by: Robson on February 19, 2024, 05:21:49 PM
Post by: jf9081 on February 19, 2024, 05:33:45 PM
three days :)
Even less... Wednesday evening at one minute past midnight (so Thursday) it should be available..
Post by: Robson on February 19, 2024, 05:40:50 PM
three days :)
Even less... Wednesday evening at one minute past midnight (so Thursday) it should be available..
:thumbsup Valuable comment:)
Post by: jf9081 on February 19, 2024, 06:10:21 PM
three days :)
Even less... Wednesday evening at one minute past midnight (so Thursday) it should be available..
:thumbsup Valuable comment:)
;D
Post by: Vesper on February 19, 2024, 08:02:29 PM
three days :)
Apart from the link on the first page, is there another source confirming the release on Watch Me Gone on the 22th?
Post by: Robson on February 19, 2024, 08:09:56 PM
three days :)
Apart from the link on the first page, is there another source confirming the release on Watch Me Gone on the 22th?
I looked but didn't find it.
Post by: Love Expresso on February 20, 2024, 06:00:10 PM
LE
Post by: Robson on February 20, 2024, 06:07:59 PM
Post by: Neville Sherman on February 20, 2024, 06:36:43 PM
Post by: straitsway75 on February 20, 2024, 07:33:04 PM
Post by: Robson on February 20, 2024, 07:35:28 PM
Post by: jf9081 on February 20, 2024, 07:43:15 PM
Post by: straitsway75 on February 20, 2024, 08:10:12 PM
No release date?no date
Post by: Robson on February 20, 2024, 08:32:24 PM
Post by: Dutchessy on February 20, 2024, 09:29:02 PM
Post by: kaleo74 on February 20, 2024, 09:41:41 PM
Very strange... :smack maybe it needs to be announced on the official MK site first?? For those who pre-ordered, you could send an email with explanations to 7digital.
I thought it was weird that they were offering to buy a song before the album was even released, and that it was officially announced - it looked like a scam or fraud.
Post by: Robson on February 20, 2024, 09:50:59 PM
Post by: Love Expresso on February 20, 2024, 10:12:52 PM
Very strange... :smack maybe it needs to be announced on the official MK site first?? For those who pre-ordered, you could send an email with explanations to 7digital.
I thought it was weird that they were offering to buy a song before the album was even released, and that it was officially announced - it looked like a scam or fraud.
Now that you mention scam or fraud... i really wonder why the Deluxe Boxes are only available via uDiscover and Bravado which both have the worst customer's reviews I have ever heard. Really almost every review speaks of very big problems with delivery/payment and so on. And on the other hand, nothing on Amazon or the big retailers so far. Am I the only one who thinks that's strange?
LE
Post by: Vesper on February 20, 2024, 10:34:08 PM
Very strange... :smack maybe it needs to be announced on the official MK site first?? For those who pre-ordered, you could send an email with explanations to 7digital.
I thought it was weird that they were offering to buy a song before the album was even released, and that it was officially announced - it looked like a scam or fraud.
Now that you mention scam or fraud... i really wonder why the Deluxe Boxes are only available via uDiscover and Bravado which both have the worst customer's reviews I have ever heard. Really almost every review speaks of very big problems with delivery/payment and so on. And on the other hand, nothing on Amazon or the big retailers so far. Am I the only one who thinks that's strange?
LE
I ordered from uDiscover in the past and had no problems.
Although I seem to remember the shipping costs were a little expensive.
Post by: jbaent on February 21, 2024, 07:32:08 AM
Very strange... :smack maybe it needs to be announced on the official MK site first?? For those who pre-ordered, you could send an email with explanations to 7digital.
I thought it was weird that they were offering to buy a song before the album was even released, and that it was officially announced - it looked like a scam or fraud.
Now that you mention scam or fraud... i really wonder why the Deluxe Boxes are only available via uDiscover and Bravado which both have the worst customer's reviews I have ever heard. Really almost every review speaks of very big problems with delivery/payment and so on. And on the other hand, nothing on Amazon or the big retailers so far. Am I the only one who thinks that's strange?
LE
I think the box is available in certain Amazon shops, not in all countries, but in the end it would appear on all of them, it's just a question of time that happened with all the previous boxes of DS and MK these last years.
I'm waiting until it appears in Amazon Spain.
Post by: jbaent on February 21, 2024, 07:34:21 AM
Very strange... :smack maybe it needs to be announced on the official MK site first?? For those who pre-ordered, you could send an email with explanations to 7digital.
I thought it was weird that they were offering to buy a song before the album was even released, and that it was officially announced - it looked like a scam or fraud.
As far as the song it's released, it's legal.
When "Ahead of the game" was released, was legal to sell the song alone, if it was planned that "Watch me gone" to be released this week, it was also legal to sell it.
Post by: Dutchessy on February 21, 2024, 03:23:05 PM
Thanks to Holaknopfler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6I96SxGY-c
Post by: rmarques821 on February 21, 2024, 03:41:03 PM
It's coming! Added 4 hours ago by official Mark Knopfler account on youtube... video is not available yet so there is nothing to see at this moment, but it will come. My guess is fridag 00.00, so tomorrow nightIt's been removed
Thanks to Holaknopfler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6I96SxGY-c
Post by: Dutchessy on February 21, 2024, 03:43:32 PM
Provided to YouTube by Aviator-Management GmbH & Co. KG Watch Me Gone · Mark Knopfler Watch Me Gone ℗ 2024 Will D. Side Limited, under exclusive licence to Universal Music Operations Limited Released on: 2024-02-22 Composer: Mark Knopfler Lyricist: Mark Knopfler Auto-generated by YouTube.
Auto generated by Youtube... strange... Also 22 feb as release date..
Post by: Robson on February 21, 2024, 03:50:13 PM
It's coming! Added 4 hours ago by official Mark Knopfler account on youtube... video is not available yet so there is nothing to see at this moment, but it will come. My guess is fridag 00.00, so tomorrow night
Thanks to Holaknopfler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6I96SxGY-c
Thank you for the good news :thumbsup
Post by: Dutchessy on February 21, 2024, 04:02:35 PM
Post by: Alex_melilla on February 21, 2024, 04:06:09 PM
Post by: Dutchessy on February 21, 2024, 04:22:09 PM
That's indeed the same
Post by: Love Expresso on February 21, 2024, 07:28:24 PM
Yeah, let's hope they will indeed publish tomorrow or friday.. otherwise we will have to be patient ;)
When it says Feb 22, why not tonight at 0:01h? It's Feb 22nd then :D
LE
Post by: Robson on February 21, 2024, 07:30:19 PM
Yeah, let's hope they will indeed publish tomorrow or friday.. otherwise we will have to be patient ;)
When it says Feb 22, why not tonight at 0:01h? It's Feb 22nd then :D
LE
Exactly! :)
Post by: TommyJ88 on February 21, 2024, 09:00:48 PM
“God must still be laughing at a boy and his plans…”
Post by: Love Expresso on February 21, 2024, 09:04:18 PM
LE
Post by: TommyJ88 on February 21, 2024, 09:07:01 PM
Where did you listen to it?
LE
Give me a minute and I’ll send you a PM. I’m a little wary of outright uploading and posting it here, especially since it’s probably only a few hours until it’s up streaming for everyone to hear.
Post by: GIUMK on February 21, 2024, 09:11:39 PM
Where did you listen to it?
LE
Give me a minute and I’ll send you a PM. I’m a little wary of outright uploading and posting it here, especially since it’s probably only a few hours until it’s up streaming for everyone to hear.
Have you also listened to any other songs?
Post by: Robson on February 21, 2024, 09:12:11 PM
Is this a fragment of text?
Post by: TommyJ88 on February 21, 2024, 09:13:50 PM
Where did you listen to it?
LE
Give me a minute and I’ll send you a PM. I’m a little wary of outright uploading and posting it here, especially since it’s probably only a few hours until it’s up streaming for everyone to hear.
Have you also listened to any other songs?
No, only what everyone else has heard—and I only heard this one a few hours ago for the first time.
Post by: GIUMK on February 21, 2024, 09:15:10 PM
Where did you listen to it?
LE
Give me a minute and I’ll send you a PM. I’m a little wary of outright uploading and posting it here, especially since it’s probably only a few hours until it’s up streaming for everyone to hear.
Have you also listened to any other songs?
No, only what everyone else has heard—and I only heard this one a few hours ago for the first time.
:thumbsup
Post by: TommyJ88 on February 21, 2024, 09:15:17 PM
Post by: quizzaciously on February 21, 2024, 09:15:36 PM
Post by: quizzaciously on February 21, 2024, 09:17:35 PM
Will I be in terrible trouble if I just post a link to this?
It's practically already uploaded on Mark's channel and waiting to be published, so I wouldn't bother if I were you.
Post by: TommyJ88 on February 21, 2024, 09:21:21 PM
“God must still be laughing at a boy and his plans…”
Is this a fragment of text?
Sorry, yes, it’s part of the lyrics (as I hear them, at least).
Post by: hfscardoso on February 21, 2024, 09:21:55 PM
Post by: Robson on February 21, 2024, 09:27:30 PM
“God must still be laughing at a boy and his plans…”
Is this a fragment of text?
Sorry, yes, it’s part of the lyrics (as I hear them, at least).
Thank you. What is this story about?
Post by: Dutchessy on February 21, 2024, 09:39:51 PM
Post by: jf9081 on February 21, 2024, 10:02:05 PM
Where did you listen to it?
LE
Give me a minute and I’ll send you a PM. I’m a little wary of outright uploading and posting it here, especially since it’s probably only a few hours until it’s up streaming for everyone to hear.
Wow! PM, PLEASE!!!! :wave
Post by: Robson on February 21, 2024, 10:10:39 PM
Beautiful song! Indeed the last part of the One deep river video
It's true. Beautiful song!
Post by: TommyJ88 on February 21, 2024, 10:17:33 PM
Wow, I really did not think so many people would be so keen to listen just a few hours early! I’d forgotten how vibrant and engaged this place is!
Post by: Robson on February 21, 2024, 10:19:02 PM
Dutchessy :thumbsup
Post by: Dutchessy on February 21, 2024, 10:21:59 PM
OK, I think I’ve sent PMs to everyone who has messaged me privately and also those who have asked on this thread, but I can’t be sure without spending a long time checking, so if I’ve missed you, feel free to message me again.
Wow, I really did not think so many people would be so keen to listen just a few hours early! I’d forgotten how vibrant and engaged this place is!
Where did you find it?
Post by: TommyJ88 on February 21, 2024, 10:35:13 PM
OK, I think I’ve sent PMs to everyone who has messaged me privately and also those who have asked on this thread, but I can’t be sure without spending a long time checking, so if I’ve missed you, feel free to message me again.
Wow, I really did not think so many people would be so keen to listen just a few hours early! I’d forgotten how vibrant and engaged this place is!
Where did you find it?
I got it thanks to a friend.
Post by: SlowLearner on February 21, 2024, 10:53:25 PM
Post by: TheTimeWasWrong on February 21, 2024, 11:12:09 PM
Post by: quizzaciously on February 21, 2024, 11:26:35 PM
Seems like the lyrics are posted on AZ lyrics?
Yeah. Not a fan of highly personal songs like this to be honest. I can't relate to going on the road with Bob, I wanna relate to simpler stuff, whatever.
Post by: holaknopfler on February 21, 2024, 11:39:52 PM
Post by: holaknopfler on February 21, 2024, 11:40:34 PM
Are you comin'?
I may have asked you once or twice
But I'd already left the hallway with broken lights
Some dingy landin' we used to tumble from
Where the stairs were cracked and worn, whatever
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
And the songs were pushin' harder all the time
Wasn't your fault, then again it wasn't mine
Broke, frustrated, and obsessed
You saw me as ridiculous, I guess
And I didn't know from nothing
Not even my own voice
But I knew there was something
And I knew there was no choice
I was leavin', mostly heartache
But I was in no mood to rejoice
There was so much that was wrong, whatever
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Well, maybe I'll hit the road with Bob
Or maybe hitch a ride with Van
It's all gonna happen
And I'll be a happening man
And God must still be laughing at a boy and his plans
In the streets where they were born
And the hopscotch traces, well, you can still see 'em here
The chalk lines faded and unclear
Time for me to disappear
Put my old boots back on, whatever
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Watch me go, babe, watch me gone
Post by: El Macho on February 21, 2024, 11:58:11 PM
I listened to WMG a few times now. I’m not enthousiastic but it’s nice song , very slow. Just like River Towns.
Post by: TheTimeWasWrong on February 22, 2024, 12:00:11 AM
Maybe this song is about David…. If you read the lyrics carefully…
I thought the same.
Great song, sounds like it could have been on Privateering.
Post by: quizzaciously on February 22, 2024, 12:13:58 AM
Maybe this song is about David…. If you read the lyrics carefully…
I thought the same.
Great song, sounds like it could have been on Privateering.
Nice theory about David. As in watch me gone "making it". By the way, strangely likes on the video keep coming, looks like the video is available to some countries or something, and blocked elsewhere. I'm trying to access it through VPN and nothing happens.
Post by: Dutchessy on February 22, 2024, 12:14:05 AM
It's coming! Added 4 hours ago by official Mark Knopfler account on youtube... video is not available yet so there is nothing to see at this moment, but it will come. My guess is fridag 00.00, so tomorrow night
Thanks to Holaknopfler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6I96SxGY-c
Available now! Also Spotify
Post by: TommyJ88 on February 22, 2024, 12:16:31 AM
It's coming! Added 4 hours ago by official Mark Knopfler account on youtube... video is not available yet so there is nothing to see at this moment, but it will come. My guess is fridag 00.00, so tomorrow night
Thanks to Holaknopfler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6I96SxGY-c
Available now! Also Spotify
That’s great—I can finally stop sending PMs and get some sleep!
Post by: Robson on February 22, 2024, 12:17:29 AM
Post by: Dutchessy on February 22, 2024, 12:22:20 AM
Post by: Robson on February 22, 2024, 12:32:05 AM
Post by: quizzaciously on February 22, 2024, 01:00:40 AM
Post by: richardmu on February 22, 2024, 01:19:29 AM
Post by: Beryl on February 22, 2024, 01:29:13 AM
Post by: Love Expresso on February 22, 2024, 02:11:27 AM
I think it's about Ruth, his sister who died in 2020.
LE
Post by: Love Expresso on February 22, 2024, 02:28:10 AM
And the hopscotch traces, well, you can still see 'em here
The chalk lines faded and unclear
Time for me to disappear
Put my old boots back on, whatever
The same boots as he refers to in Pale Imitation, also the same house? How can these chalk lines still be visible after 60 years or more?
My question might sound stupid but since DTRW I detect a certain lack of clarity in his lyrics. I know that it's sort of poetry and not the news but he always had a way with words that was totally on point and always nailed it but in the lyrics of late he lost that somehow.
LE
Post by: Robson on February 22, 2024, 02:35:20 AM
Post by: Robson on February 22, 2024, 02:38:32 AM
And the hopscotch traces, well, you can still see 'em here
The chalk lines faded and unclear
Time for me to disappear
Put my old boots back on, whatever
The same boots as he refers to in Pale Imitation, also the same house? How can these chalk lines still be visible after 60 years or more?
My question might sound stupid but since DTRW I detect a certain lack of clarity in his lyrics. I know that it's sort of poetry and not the news but he always had a way with words that was totally on point and always nailed it but in the lyrics of late he lost that somehow.
LE
I also thought about Pale Imitation.
Post by: richardmu on February 22, 2024, 02:48:23 AM
I have trouble with this one and hesitate to listen to it on repeat as I usually do with new songs. The way he sings it sounds somehow as if he has too many words or syllables to make it sound smoothly rhyming, somehow stumbling through it. His vocals sound as tired and weak as in Follow The Ribbon. Musically, we have heard it all in the 30 seconds of the snippet and the remaining 4 minutes add nothing interesting to it.
I think it's about Ruth, his sister who died in 2020.
LE
Yep, sounds all over the place in the verses. I'm surprised people are talking about the great melody, I don't hear it, just another dreary miserable song. It's almost chord for chord the same Seattle without the nice Hank Marvin bits.
Post by: the visitor on February 22, 2024, 05:49:25 AM
Post by: Kris-b on February 22, 2024, 07:01:17 AM
Post by: jbaent on February 22, 2024, 07:37:54 AM
Reading the lyrics I have the feeling it it about his first marriage.
I also had the same feeling when read the first part of the lyrics, but the second part made me think about David, and then, about leaving the band behind for a solo career.
Maybe it's just about all the things he had to left behind during his life pursuing his dream, so it's about all that I mentioned.
However, most of the lines made me think about the first marriage more than the rest of things.
Post by: Love Expresso on February 22, 2024, 07:45:01 AM
Reading the lyrics I have the feeling it it about his first marriage.
That was an idea I had, too. I also thought about the woman he was trying to visit in Laughs & Jokes & Drinks & Smokes.
So many options so far..shouldn't the lyrics make clear who it is about or shouldn't they give hints that we can work it out? Remember, this is where the Get-A-Lifers meet who seem to know everything about him. How should the non-fan casual listener ever work out what the song is about? That's something I have trouble with in his lyrics since let's say Tracker...
LE
Post by: jbaent on February 22, 2024, 07:49:29 AM
Reading the lyrics I have the feeling it it about his first marriage.
That was an idea I had, too. I also thought about the woman he was trying to visit in Laughs & Jokes & Drinks & Smokes.
So many options so far..shouldn't the lyrics make clear who it is about or shouldn't they give hints that we can work it out? Remember, this is where the Get-A-Lifers meet who seem to know everything about him. How should the non-fan casual listener ever work out what the song is about? That's something I have trouble with in his lyrics since let's say Tracker...
LE
He uses to say that he likes that people makes the song whatever want to be, but also he sometimes explains what's some songs about...
I'd say that in general this song might be more about everything he had to leave behind for his dream, it might be his first wife, it might be his family, his brother, his old band mates, after my N time listening to the song, I got the impression that it's more like that, a general idea of everything he left behind, more than one concrete theme.
Post by: superval99 on February 22, 2024, 07:56:47 AM
rather than those that are liked instantly. This song is definitely a grower and I like it more and more with each listen. Mark's guitar is beautiful all through the song. I think it's about Mark's first marriage as others have said.
Post by: jbaent on February 22, 2024, 08:01:56 AM
And the hopscotch traces, well, you can still see 'em here
The chalk lines faded and unclear
Time for me to disappear
Put my old boots back on, whatever
The same boots as he refers to in Pale Imitation, also the same house? How can these chalk lines still be visible after 60 years or more?
And these lines made me think again that is about what had to left behind chasing his dream, and now the dream is ending, "time for me to disappear", sounds like he's thinking that his dream has been fulfiled and that's it, end of the road...
Post by: Love Expresso on February 22, 2024, 08:14:24 AM
LE
Post by: Kris-b on February 22, 2024, 08:25:49 AM
Post by: Love Expresso on February 22, 2024, 08:29:44 AM
LE
Post by: superval99 on February 22, 2024, 08:33:21 AM
Hello Val, I hoped for a post from you about this song, thank you very much. I guess a lot of my trouble with his lyrics of course comes from me not being a native speaker. Wouldn't the hopscotch traces not indicate childhood?
LE
Yes, hopscotch traces did indicate childhood memories, but the rest of the song fitted in with him leaving the flat in Cardigan Road, Leeds for a life in music, dreaming of meeting Bob and Van eventually. Of course that dream began when he was a child - remember him being one of the Everlys with a friend?
EDIT: He married his first wife while he was at university in Leeds - 1973.
Post by: jbaent on February 22, 2024, 08:33:31 AM
I read the lyrics again and I think I was wrong with Ruth, and his first marriage seems the most obvious. I don't know too much about it and it's time frame. This seems to be the time like in Laughs & Jokes when he left for London to make a living as a Musician. Was his first marriage not later, already during Dire Straits times?
LE
No, it was when he left Newcastle to work in Leeds at the Evening Post as a journalist, and they got divorced I think three years later when MK left to study Literature, early 70's.
Post by: Kris-b on February 22, 2024, 08:34:19 AM
Post by: Love Expresso on February 22, 2024, 08:35:54 AM
LE
Post by: hunter v2.0 on February 22, 2024, 08:55:53 AM
And, yes, I am grumpy today >:(
Post by: holaknopfler on February 22, 2024, 09:06:24 AM
This is one of those songs that need to be listened to quite a few times - it didn't grab me immediately, but those are the songs that stay,
rather than those that are liked instantly. This song is definitely a grower and I like it more and more with each listen. Mark's guitar is beautiful all through the song. I think it's about Mark's first marriage as others have said.
Exactly my feeling! Agree
Post by: 2manyguitars on February 22, 2024, 09:27:23 AM
Post by: Maxx on February 22, 2024, 09:45:13 AM
I really like his singing in this one, and to my ears he is actually putting some effort to it in some places. :D
Lyricswise both very recognisable and also a bit odd in terms of MK. Can't really describe it but the second verse/bridge before the first chorus is different, yet refreshing.
And the songs were pushin' harder all the time
Wasn't your fault, then again it wasn't mine
Broke, frustrated, and obsessed
You saw me as ridiculous, I guess
And I didn't know from nothing
Not even my own voice
But I knew there was something
And I knew there was no choice
I was leavin', mostly heartache
But I was in no mood to rejoice
There was so much that was wrong, whatever
Post by: jbaent on February 22, 2024, 09:48:31 AM
Beautiful song. To me much more interesting than Ahead of the Game.
I really like his singing in this one, and to my ears he is actually putting some effort to it in some places. :D
Lyricswise both very recognisable and also a bit odd in terms of MK. Can't really describe it but the second verse/bridge before the first chorus is different, yet refreshing.
And the songs were pushin' harder all the time
Wasn't your fault, then again it wasn't mine
Broke, frustrated, and obsessed
You saw me as ridiculous, I guess
And I didn't know from nothing
Not even my own voice
But I knew there was something
And I knew there was no choice
I was leavin', mostly heartache
But I was in no mood to rejoice
There was so much that was wrong, whatever
That part of the lyrics definitely guide you to when he was married to Kathy White in Leeds, after he left his work as journalist to study, while playing the pubs with Steve Phillips and looking forward to be a musician, "Broke, frustrated, and obsessed".
Post by: JF on February 22, 2024, 09:51:46 AM
Post by: goon525 on February 22, 2024, 09:59:04 AM
Post by: quizzaciously on February 22, 2024, 10:05:40 AM
And the hopscotch traces, well, you can still see 'em here
The chalk lines faded and unclear
Time for me to disappear
Put my old boots back on, whatever
The same boots as he refers to in Pale Imitation, also the same house? How can these chalk lines still be visible after 60 years or more?
My question might sound stupid but since DTRW I detect a certain lack of clarity in his lyrics. I know that it's sort of poetry and not the news but he always had a way with words that was totally on point and always nailed it but in the lyrics of late he lost that somehow.
LE
As I read all the comments, I sometimes think... Jeez, dear Mark, write an autobiography already, not everything in this world needs to be put in lyrics and songs ;D
Post by: Dutchessy on February 22, 2024, 10:09:31 AM
Very nice touch if that was what MK intends with it..
Post by: goon525 on February 22, 2024, 10:20:11 AM
Notice there is no background response during the first 'watch me go' after the first verse... as he was telling / announce his wife he wants to go... than after the 2nd verse his wife responds (as the background voice) and kinda agrees (or let him go) with the divorce / him going away...
Very nice touch if that was what MK intends with it..
That first time doesn't he say 'Go' both times, 'Gone' only appearing second time around?
Post by: Dutchessy on February 22, 2024, 10:27:20 AM
Notice there is no background response during the first 'watch me go' after the first verse... as he was telling / announce his wife he wants to go... than after the 2nd verse his wife responds (as the background voice) and kinda agrees (or let him go) with the divorce / him going away...
Very nice touch if that was what MK intends with it..
That first time doesn't he say 'Go' both times, 'Gone' only appearing second time around?
Yes it sounds as Watch me go twice...
And later his (ex) wife responds with 'watch me gone' as a respond to Mark saying Watch me go babe.. That makes the female background voice 100% meaningful..
Post by: Dutchessy on February 22, 2024, 10:31:31 AM
As with all of Mark’s albums, there are hidden gems, elements, and meanings that are born before our eyes during these sessions, often without the band’s immediate realisation. Maybe you will hear things before we did. I hope you enjoy the journey as much as we have.
Well... we just found the first hidden meaning i think, did we? :)
Post by: dustyvalentino on February 22, 2024, 10:31:37 AM
Seemed clear to me right away that he was talking about his first marriage.
I found it kind of brutal to be honest, I'm not used to MK being so open about stuff like this. Is this his most nakedly autobiographical song ever? I know we've had the likes of R&J and GH but they were clouded in metaphor. And more recently we've had stuff like Laughs and Jokes, Basil and One Song at a Time, but they haven't focussed on something as hard hitting as his marriage collapsing.
I like the music - MK's guitar swells sound more like a pedal steel than ever.
I agree with LE that some of the lines have too many words and don't scan properly.
Overall though I like the song. I'll take an album full of this moody, ruminative stuff any day, but I understand why they went with a sort of upbeat single first.
Post by: JF on February 22, 2024, 10:33:36 AM
background vocals are sung by "Topolski" right ?
but who are they ? sisters ?
thanks
Post by: dustyvalentino on February 22, 2024, 10:39:38 AM
sorry tor this trivia question that surely has been already answered :
background vocals are sung by "Topolski" right ?
but who are they ? sisters ?
thanks
One is a musician who performs under the name Saint Claire, and her sister is mainly an actor I think.
https://www.vingtseptmagazine.com/post/in-conversation-with-saint-clair
Post by: JF on February 22, 2024, 10:41:28 AM
sorry tor this trivia question that surely has been already answered :
background vocals are sung by "Topolski" right ?
but who are they ? sisters ?
thanks
One is a musician who performs under the name Saint Claire, and her sister is mainly an actor I think.
https://www.vingtseptmagazine.com/post/in-conversation-with-saint-clair
thanks ! :wave
Post by: goon525 on February 22, 2024, 10:43:18 AM
Post by: quizzaciously on February 22, 2024, 10:43:28 AM
Just chipping in after my first listen.
Seemed clear to me right away that he was talking about his first marriage.
I found it kind of brutal to be honest, I'm not used to MK being so open about stuff like this. Is this his most nakedly autobiographical song ever? I know we've had the likes of R&J and GH but they were clouded in metaphor. And more recently we've had stuff like Laughs and Jokes, Basil and One Song at a Time, but they haven't focussed on something as hard hitting as his marriage collapsing.
I like the music - MK's guitar swells sound more like a pedal steel than ever.
I agree with LE that some of the lines have too many words and don't scan properly.
Overall though I like the song. I'll take an album full of this moody, ruminative stuff any day, but I understand why they went with a sort of upbeat single first.
And of course, it was strange to say the song is about David, since who on Earth is going to call his bro "babe"? Or sister for that matter.
MK's guitar sounds like Jeff Beck, you can almost think it's a collaboration song. And yes, it's a personal song just like Pale Imitation.
Too personal, maybe? But whatever, the song even has this "whatever" vibe to it, so why not after all? Not my cup of tea though.
Post by: Robson on February 22, 2024, 10:49:13 AM
That's true. I don't know if the promotional single "Ahead Of The Game" hit the radio like Good On You Son did. The last single with a photo and cover is Beryl.
Post by: Matchstickman on February 22, 2024, 10:59:30 AM
Overall though I like the song. I'll take an album full of this moody, ruminative stuff any day, but I understand why they went with a sort of upbeat single first.
If Ahead of the Game is the upbeat single, then we're not in for much of a ride ::)
Post by: jbaent on February 22, 2024, 11:04:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trqIfpJTBh8
Post by: Dutchessy on February 22, 2024, 11:11:38 AM
Post by: Silvertown on February 22, 2024, 11:16:17 AM
Overall though I like the song. I'll take an album full of this moody, ruminative stuff any day, but I understand why they went with a sort of upbeat single first.
If Ahead of the Game is the upbeat single, then we're not in for much of a ride ::)
I think it is best to be prepared for a very slow album with solo guitar having licks consisting maximum of 3 notes. Maybe there are not that many people anymore wishing for long solos than it used to be. This will be an ageing man with some health issues thinking about his life and life in general.
Post by: jbaent on February 22, 2024, 11:33:59 AM
And MK speaks about this song just at the beguining of the Part 2 video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trqIfpJTBh8
Subtitles generated automatically:
watchs me gone it's just the dreams of a teenage kid to me it's always been the fuel that if that's the nuclear center of the whole thing the whole thing that keeps you going and um and it once the fuel from that runs out The Thrill Is Gone then you you know you're struggling all the way then um that's why I'm still you know cross the street to look at a window of guitars and you know it's just that bit of your teen years that it reminds you of and you and so you try to keep it alive I remember a few Disturbed years just trying to get going and trying to trying to do this thing it seemed so possible you know and I'd be go to the city hall and I'd see Van Morrison and the you know Orchestra e you know thing and I'd think I wish I was so wish I was doing that I'd be that's where I you know I'd be or Bob Dylan and the band at the odeon in Newcastle you know and I'd say well you know I'm going that's really that's so you reserve a place in that lineup for yourself I mean even back to the very early days with the Straits I mean you enjoyed that too didn't you that you know the original you know yeah tiny venues and and just a you know sure you've got to want it you've got to want it bad badly and uh you that'll be tested from the from the get-go you've got to want to be there and you're just walking into something that you've no idea really about especially when you start so what makes you what gives you the uh the arrogance to think that you can to to to indicate to people that you know what you're doing which is just total lie you hav't you don't know what you're doing uh but something makes you do it
Post by: Eddie Fox on February 22, 2024, 11:48:57 AM
Post by: Rolo on February 22, 2024, 12:05:54 PM
As said by LE, there are lines with too many words that not fit thru the verse.
There is one thingthat bothers about recent MK music me sometimes and was well said by Sting as he explain how a song cathes him.
"It's all about the surprise effect"
Even my completely dislike about the DTRW album can not deny that are some "surprises" on that record.
Good On You Son have some good 'surprises' as Back On The Dancefloor has good ones too.
The 2 new singles did not have, in my opinion, any 'surprise' that captivated me. And, as both are the main singles from the new record, my expectations about it are lesser than ever.
Both songs are 'OK'
Aboutthe video (part 2)... well...
"Hey, Mark. We have 2 more minutes to film. Say something"
Post by: Love Expresso on February 22, 2024, 12:14:05 PM
Aboutthe video (part 2)... well...
"Hey, Mark. We have 2 more minutes to film. Say something"
:lol I was about to say something similnar... had more expectations for video pt.2 to be honest...
LE
Post by: jbaent on February 22, 2024, 12:16:43 PM
Aboutthe video (part 2)... well...
"Hey, Mark. We have 2 more minutes to film. Say something"
I'd say that they just cut the part where MK talks about this song to coincide with today release, and that there is more that would be released later when the record is released.
Post by: Eddie Fox on February 22, 2024, 12:19:10 PM
Post by: Silvertown on February 22, 2024, 12:20:29 PM
At this point I’m just glad Mark’s still giving us new stuff.
:thumbsup Always my musical hero.
Post by: Rolo on February 22, 2024, 12:20:46 PM
I'd say that they just cut the part where MK talks about this song to coincide with today release, and that there is more that would be released later when the record is released.
Yes, that is true.
But i couldn't miss that joke ;D
However, a video called 'On The Record - Part 2' would much more fun with all the 'teasers' like the first one.
Post by: Dutchessy on February 22, 2024, 12:29:56 PM
Aboutthe video (part 2)... well...
"Hey, Mark. We have 2 more minutes to film. Say something"
I'd say that they just cut the part where MK talks about this song to coincide with today release, and that there is more that would be released later when the record is released.
Ofcourse it's like this. Some people have to complain about everything you know ::)
Post by: GIUMK on February 22, 2024, 01:39:37 PM
I listened to Watch me gone; very personal song but the melody has nothing new compared to previous works, slow but graceful. I was expecting another song like AOTG but he might release it before the album release.
Post by: Robson on February 22, 2024, 02:18:14 PM
sorry tor this trivia question that surely has been already answered :
background vocals are sung by "Topolski" right ?
but who are they ? sisters ?
thanks
Emma and Tamsin Topolski are the daughters of Polish traveler and reporter Daniel Topolski. Their grandfather, Feliks Topolski, was a famous painter and illustrator who lived and died in London.
Post by: TJ on February 22, 2024, 05:17:41 PM
Post by: Darling Pretty on February 22, 2024, 05:53:14 PM
Not Mark’s best effort imo but beautiful arrangements. That might be the black Pensa.
Yeah. The beginning sounded very much like the beginning of: "Let it be" from 1987.
Must be the black Pensa.
Nice little song. A grower.
The Pedals were surely played by Greg.
Happy to get new stuff from MK. no matter how I like it
Post by: quizzaciously on February 22, 2024, 05:57:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0RG3YHkI30
Post by: JF on February 22, 2024, 06:01:17 PM
sorry tor this trivia question that surely has been already answered :
background vocals are sung by "Topolski" right ?
but who are they ? sisters ?
thanks
Emma and Tamsin Topolski are the daughters of Polish traveler and reporter Daniel Topolski. Their grandfather, Feliks Topolski, was a famous painter and illustrator who lived and died in London.
thanks ? :wave
Post by: Leprechaun on February 22, 2024, 06:58:25 PM
It's not a bad song per se, but we have heard it all before, several times. The musical ideas, the topics, the revisiting of the past. I don't know. Is a song like this really worth recording, never mind releasing as a single? For a man who's always taken pride in never looking back; it's a bit of a joke, really. And I agree about the backing vocals. Awful. If this song and Ahead are supposed to be the high points of this album, then One Deep River will get a hard pass from me.
And, yes, I am grumpy today >:(
I have the same feelings about the two songs we already know: boring, lame and unispired. The new songs sound like b-sides from past records. Remember how evolutionary MK was from one straits album to the next... I mean, if you compare commique and making movies, it was bursting with freshness. Ok, now the man himself is over 70.
I still can't get used to the fact that MK tries to sing like art & garfunkel...and doesn't show off his extraordinary guitar skills. Today, he is primarily a songwriter and writing lots of tunes in which his instrument only plays an accompanying role.
And I have the feeling that some people here are thrilled by everything, no matter what MK puts out. Sorry ::)
I really hope the rest of the album and bonus songs will reach the level that we know and love... especially after waiting so long for it...
Post by: Dutchessy on February 22, 2024, 07:34:17 PM
Whatever..
Post by: Rolo on February 22, 2024, 07:50:09 PM
I really hope the rest of the album and bonus songs will reach the level that we know and love... especially after waiting so long for it...
Don't be so positive
Post by: Love Expresso on February 22, 2024, 08:11:27 PM
LE
Post by: Dutchessy on February 22, 2024, 08:12:37 PM
Question for everybody. Will split topic tomorrow, or delete this post if nobody answers ;)
Post by: KnopfleRick on February 22, 2024, 08:43:58 PM
Like others already mentioned before his first marriage came to my mind the first time I've listened. In any case it seems a very personal song. The mournful steel guitar underlines the all over sad atmosphere of this song perfectly. I love it!
Post by: Love Expresso on February 22, 2024, 08:57:44 PM
Tell me what is the last song and guitarsolo you really liked. Maybe i should start a new thread about this question, im curious..
Question for everybody. Will split topic tomorrow, or delete this post if nobody answers ;)
Good question.
The Scaffolder's Wife (Song and solo)
Punish The Monkey (solo)
So Far From The Clyde (guitar work over all)
Before Gas & TV (song)
Redbud Tree and Occupation Blues (songs and solos)
Seattle (Song)
Basil (song)
River Towns (song)
Silver Eagle (song)
Drovers Road (guitar work)
Pale Imitation (song and solo)
That's it.
LE
Post by: Shangri-La on February 22, 2024, 09:42:33 PM
Post by: TheTimeWasWrong on February 22, 2024, 09:49:35 PM
Well call me crazy but I like this "stripped-down" AI version more than the actual version. I think it's safe to say Mark is overcomplicating things sometimes and not every song needs to be this orchestrated masterpiece with 20 people playing and requiring years of post-production. I love his singing voice so it would be nice to hear it more clear anyway. Moving microphones and tape is okay when it's not the main event. I'd sign the petition to make Mark's most personal songs more stripped-down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0RG3YHkI30
Technology is impressive, though a bit scary as well. I like this version, but I really miss the lead guitar. I'm sure we would complain that it needed the band if he released it this way (or even with the lead guitar) ;D
Post by: rmarques821 on February 22, 2024, 09:56:28 PM
It's ok not to like the song, but to expect from a 74 year-old man the same level of freshness or complex songwriting as in 1979/1980 is just unrealistic.It's not a bad song per se, but we have heard it all before, several times. The musical ideas, the topics, the revisiting of the past. I don't know. Is a song like this really worth recording, never mind releasing as a single? For a man who's always taken pride in never looking back; it's a bit of a joke, really. And I agree about the backing vocals. Awful. If this song and Ahead are supposed to be the high points of this album, then One Deep River will get a hard pass from me.
And, yes, I am grumpy today >:(
I have the same feelings about the two songs we already know: boring, lame and unispired. The new songs sound like b-sides from past records. Remember how evolutionary MK was from one straits album to the next... I mean, if you compare commique and making movies, it was bursting with freshness. Ok, now the man himself is over 70.
I still can't get used to the fact that MK tries to sing like art & garfunkel...and doesn't show off his extraordinary guitar skills. Today, he is primarily a songwriter and writing lots of tunes in which his instrument only plays an accompanying role.
And I have the feeling that some people here are thrilled by everything, no matter what MK puts out. Sorry ::)
I really hope the rest of the album and bonus songs will reach the level that we know and love... especially after waiting so long for it...
Regarding the guitar skills, I don't know if you've followed Mark's career since 2015, but his "extraordinary guitar skills" are gone and not coming back.
I think you're disappointed because you've set your expectations too high. That used to be the case with me too, until I realized the years go by too fast and I'm just happy that he's still putting out new albums. As I don't know how much more of Mark we'll have, that is enough for me.
Post by: TJ on February 22, 2024, 10:26:59 PM
Tell me what is the last song and guitarsolo you really liked. Maybe i should start a new thread about this question, im curious..
Question for everybody. Will split topic tomorrow, or delete this post if nobody answers ;)
There are several songs I like on all Mark's albums, even the ones I like "least", like DTRW, KTGC, and ATRR. As far as a proper "solo", I guess maybe This Is Us? Can't really name one more recent. I still enjoy Mark's playing though, even if it's just phrases and fills rather than blinding solos.
Post by: mschaap on February 22, 2024, 10:44:06 PM
To me this song combines beautiful sounds, a nice melody and deep meaningful personal lyrics, which altogether makes it an emotionally touching piece. To me this is the essence of music and therefore more than good enough. What more could one ask for.
Post by: Eddie Fox on February 22, 2024, 10:46:31 PM
Tell me what is the last song and guitarsolo you really liked. Maybe i should start a new thread about this question, im curious..
Question for everybody. Will split topic tomorrow, or delete this post if nobody answers ;)
The last remarkable solos I can think of are from Boom, like that. Mark used to tell stories with his guitar an that’s a good one. After that… song is king.
Post by: neco on February 22, 2024, 11:21:37 PM
Post by: Pierre on February 22, 2024, 11:46:02 PM
Post by: quizzaciously on February 23, 2024, 12:13:32 AM
Also, strangely, you can hear the bongos only at certain places in the song, it just pops all of a sudden. I guess it makes more sense on Atmos mixes, you can barely hear it on the boring good old stereo recording.
I don't think I'm making this up, and the bongos are actually there because they suit the song and give it this Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On" vibe, I just can't hear it properly.
Post by: 2manyguitars on February 23, 2024, 12:37:50 AM
Only MK could channel such emotions in such a subtle way. The song really has many layers and is a wolf in sheep's clothing....
Post by: Robson on February 23, 2024, 01:54:20 AM
I think it's a beautiful effort. 2 things that really struck me. 1. Very very personal from mk. Absolutely no frills or hiding behind metaphor. 2. The unforgiving, almost mercenary nature of the central character in the song. Despite the sadness there is absolutely no remorse. Quite stark from mk and emotionally wrenching in itself. Echoes of his (apparent) treatment of his brother and perhaps shows the ruthlessness needed to be successful whilst also managing to create a commentary on the ridiculousness of the whole dream of 'making it'.
Only MK could channel such emotions in such a subtle way. The song really has many layers and is a wolf in sheep's clothing....
I feel this song the same way.
Mark in this song is a storyteller and I can't stop listening to it.
Post by: Wizard on February 23, 2024, 10:10:44 AM
Post by: Iron Hand on February 23, 2024, 10:22:31 AM
Tell me what is the last song and guitarsolo you really liked. Maybe i should start a new thread about this question, im curious..Rear View Mirror springs to my mind, nicely understated jazzy guitar and an infectious groove. But there are others on DTRW I like as much as well.
Question for everybody. Will split topic tomorrow, or delete this post if nobody answers ;)
Post by: Iron Hand on February 23, 2024, 10:23:51 AM
I still can't get used to the fact that MK tries to sing like art & garfunkel...Or maybe even Paul & Simon ;D (sorry, couldn't resist)
Post by: dmg on February 23, 2024, 12:11:14 PM
After all these years spent on this album the first two released songs have been completely underwhelming.
Post by: Dutchessy on February 23, 2024, 12:16:49 PM
Nice enough but dull and instantly forgettable. Backing singers seem completely pointless to me.
After all these years spent on this album the first two released songs have been completely underwhelming.
Backing singer is his ex-wife who responds to MK going (symbolic) so it's not that pointless... At least that was my interpretation..
Post by: jbaent on February 23, 2024, 12:24:31 PM
Nice enough but dull and instantly forgettable. Backing singers seem completely pointless to me.
After all these years spent on this album the first two released songs have been completely underwhelming.
Maybe his best days are also gone, and this is what it is right now.
Both puns intended, LOL
Post by: Love Expresso on February 23, 2024, 12:49:19 PM
LE
Post by: Dutchessy on February 23, 2024, 12:53:22 PM
I must agree to dmg. The snippets from the video sounded promising and made me curious. Now that I heard the second track, I am not only underwhelmed but also my whole enthusiasm for the whole album has suffered very much. I don't know if my expectations are really too high but with a catalogue like this, how should I not have high hopes for an album that took so long in the make?
LE
Sorry, but how is that possible? The complete song contains the same snippets you liked before, and suddenly your whole enthousiasm has suffered? My mind is blown...
Ofcourse it's all personal taste, and i believe you (no offense as well) but i don't understand it at all.
In my opinion the complete song is way nicer than just a 30 sec snippet. What did you expect then? A 3 minute ending solo a la Telegraph Road?
Post by: jbaent on February 23, 2024, 01:08:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0RG3YHkI30
Post by: jbaent on February 23, 2024, 01:09:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9GBwfOEsmE
Post by: Love Expresso on February 23, 2024, 01:16:16 PM
LE
Post by: Love Expresso on February 23, 2024, 01:18:15 PM
And made by the same person, an extended version of the track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9GBwfOEsmE
Why would anyone extend this track anyway? It's too long already..
LE
Post by: Dutchessy on February 23, 2024, 01:21:40 PM
And made by the same person, an extended version of the track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9GBwfOEsmE
This one is terrible, the part starting at 2.50 is ugly as ....
Post by: jbaent on February 23, 2024, 01:36:06 PM
Saying this, I'm happy with it.
Post by: superval99 on February 23, 2024, 01:41:10 PM
Nice enough but dull and instantly forgettable. Backing singers seem completely pointless to me.
After all these years spent on this album the first two released songs have been completely underwhelming.
It may be instantly forgettable to you, but it has been going around in my head all morning! :)
Post by: kaleo74 on February 23, 2024, 01:58:56 PM
To date, we've listened to 2 country(ish) songs. Is that the color of this album? We'll see, I'm waiting to hear more sophisticated arrangements and keyboards! For the moment, Doc is kind of absent from the 2 tracks, but there are hidden nuggets, as he said, in the album, I can feel it.
When DTRW came out, I was blown away by the arrangements on Good on You Son and Back On The Dance Floor, the other tracks are pretty good too, Guy Fletcher had brought a freshness to Mark's music, that's a fact.
Post by: Robson on February 23, 2024, 02:31:47 PM
Post by: shortfin on February 23, 2024, 02:41:01 PM
"Mark Knopfler says goodbye to Newcastle in 'Watch Me Gone'.
A departing train, a city, someone to say goodbye to, a dream that only one in a million can achieve. Watch Me Gone is the story of when Knopfler left Newcastle upon Tyne in northern England to pursue his desire to be a musician."
Post by: Matchstickman on February 23, 2024, 03:44:47 PM
When DTRW came out, I was blown away by the arrangements on Good on You Son and Back On The Dance Floor, the other tracks are pretty good too, Guy Fletcher had brought a freshness to Mark's music, that's a fact.
Agree, DTRW is not exactly a favourite, but at the time some of it felt fresh and different. You could tell that they had used their studio time then to create some new audio landscapes, especially in Back on the Dance Floor. The vibe in the chorus of that song is killer!
Post by: Matchstickman on February 23, 2024, 04:02:50 PM
I have also come to like River Towns, though that song, like so many others recently, is more anonymous.
Rear View Mirror is a cool cat! Nice groove on that one - the band seem to be playing off one another on that song in a way that you rarely hear on a Knopfler record.
Post by: Robson on February 23, 2024, 04:59:27 PM
Produced by Mark Knopfler and Guy Fletcher
Recorded and mixed by Guy Fletcher at British Grove Studios, London
Assistant Recording Engineers: Rowan McIntosh, Eve Morris, Edie Delafield, Luie Stylianou and Tom Coath
Mix Assistant: Luie Stylianou
Drums by Ian Thomas
Percussion by Danny Cummings
Bass guitar by Glenn Worf
Acoustic guitar by Richard Bennett
Pedal steel by Greg Leisz
Piano by Jim Cox
Guitars and vocals by Mark Knopfler
Backing vocals by Emma Topolski and Tamsin Topolski
Mastered by Bob Ludwig at Gateway Mastering Studios, Portland, Maine
Miscellaneous Credits:
Recorded at British Grove Studios, London, UK
Post by: KnopfleRick on February 23, 2024, 05:09:08 PM
Nice enough but dull and instantly forgettable. Backing singers seem completely pointless to me.
After all these years spent on this album the first two released songs have been completely underwhelming.
Backing singer is his ex-wife who responds to MK going (symbolic) so it's not that pointless... At least that was my interpretation..
I like your interpretation.
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 06:12:47 PM
Better vocals, maybe a more original song structure of any kind, at least some proper guitar playing, these are just not more than three note licks.. and some kind of "melody" maybe? Try to sing it, the only thing that stays in mind are these backing vocals and they are more like a parody in my ears. Sorry for moaning but I was asked what I expect. I learn today to expect nothing anymore obviously. Please no attacks for having an opinion, thank you.
LE
I totally agree with you.
I think people are trying too hard to appreciate these new songs and, perhaps, get a better feeling when the album comes in.
I think that when the music is great, it captives you to listen again and again so the music will grow and the hidden gems starts to appear.
In this last couple of songs, some of us are having the opposite way.
They are tryng to like the songs only because MK.
Both are, in my opinion, weak songs.
About WMG, i feel a strong movement for some on 'enjoy' the MK's lazy vocals and the lack of a main melody.
The only thing that is 'singable' is that awful backing vocals.
My feeling, after hearing the recent MK's songs, is:
"It cannot be serious! I'll listen it again"
"This is an MK song? I'll listen it again to search something that I'll like"
I m not expecting a long guitar solo or a recreation of a DS song.
For an artist on the level of MK, i expect a song played with meaning, effort, with a strong vocal, with feeling and good surprises.
Post by: Dutchessy on February 23, 2024, 06:22:44 PM
It was the same with his last album, and the album before ;)
Ofcourse this is my opinion, and everyone has their own
Post by: Matchstickman on February 23, 2024, 06:24:44 PM
The vocals are sublime and very good on Watch me Gone. The vocal line/melody is beautifully done. Yes it's hard to sing along the first couple of times, but with some practice you can do it. I'm happy that i can enjoy this and i feel sorry for the fans who waited 6 years to be dissapointed again.
It was the same with his last album, and the album before ;)
Ofcourse this is my opinion, and everyone has their own
Sure, but, luckily, there are another 100 artists to listen to, but this is an MK forum so that is what we discuss! :)
Post by: Robson on February 23, 2024, 06:28:27 PM
Better vocals, maybe a more original song structure of any kind, at least some proper guitar playing, these are just not more than three note licks.. and some kind of "melody" maybe? Try to sing it, the only thing that stays in mind are these backing vocals and they are more like a parody in my ears. Sorry for moaning but I was asked what I expect. I learn today to expect nothing anymore obviously. Please no attacks for having an opinion, thank you.
LE
I totally agree with you.
I think people are trying too hard to appreciate these new songs and, perhaps, get a better feeling when the album comes in.
I think that when the music is great, it captives you to listen again and again so the music will grow and the hidden gems starts to appear.
In this last couple of songs, some of us are having the opposite way.
They are tryng to like the songs only because MK.
Both are, in my opinion, weak songs.
About WMG, i feel a strong movement for some on 'enjoy' the MK's lazy vocals and the lack of a main melody.
The only thing that is 'singable' is that awful backing vocals.
My feeling, after hearing the recent MK's songs, is:
"It cannot be serious! I'll listen it again"
"This is an MK song? I'll listen it again to search something that I'll like"
I m not expecting a long guitar solo or a recreation of a DS song.
For an artist on the level of MK, i expect a song played with meaning, effort, with a strong vocal, with feeling and good surprises.
Try to accept that some people actually like these two songs. Nobody pretends.
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 06:52:08 PM
Try to accept that some people actually like these two songs. Nobody pretends.
I am sorry if i'de be rude.
Of course that are people who liked the song from first listening.
My dear friend Brunno Nunes had a conversation today and he puts into our chat what he likes about music. And some of his tastes are connected with WMG. So, he likes the song. Every head is an different world.
What i mean is that some of the fans are trying hard to like the new songs. The comments are all about meaning the lyrinc, first marriage, brother, city, lake, river, whatever... Almost never about the music.
Post by: 2manyguitars on February 23, 2024, 06:53:18 PM
Better vocals, maybe a more original song structure of any kind, at least some proper guitar playing, these are just not more than three note licks.. and some kind of "melody" maybe? Try to sing it, the only thing that stays in mind are these backing vocals and they are more like a parody in my ears. Sorry for moaning but I was asked what I expect. I learn today to expect nothing anymore obviously. Please no attacks for having an opinion, thank you.
LE
I totally agree with you.
I think people are trying too hard to appreciate these new songs and, perhaps, get a better feeling when the album comes in.
I think that when the music is great, it captives you to listen again and again so the music will grow and the hidden gems starts to appear.
In this last couple of songs, some of us are having the opposite way.
They are tryng to like the songs only because MK.
Both are, in my opinion, weak songs.
About WMG, i feel a strong movement for some on 'enjoy' the MK's lazy vocals and the lack of a main melody.
The only thing that is 'singable' is that awful backing vocals.
My feeling, after hearing the recent MK's songs, is:
"It cannot be serious! I'll listen it again"
"This is an MK song? I'll listen it again to search something that I'll like"
I m not expecting a long guitar solo or a recreation of a DS song.
For an artist on the level of MK, i expect a song played with meaning, effort, with a strong vocal, with feeling and good surprises.
Try to accept that some people actually like these two songs. Nobody pretends.
Perhaps those who don't like these songs just aren't trying hard enough ;)
See how ridiculous it sounds turned around?
You either like something or you don't. Not much on DTRW or Tracker touched me. This song did. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 07:06:00 PM
Perhaps those who don't like these songs just aren't trying hard enough ;)
See how ridiculous it sounds turned around?
You either like something or you don't. Not much on DTRW or Tracker touched me. This song did. Why is that so hard to grasp?
It's what i said before.
Every head is a differente world.
If you liked the song. That's fine.
Don't bother about my comment.
I like to go deep on some artists works that i like.
To my ears, there is a lack of energy on Mark songs.
Even undestanding the ambience and purpose of Tracker. I dislike most of the album.
But nowadays, man... i miss Tracker.
Post by: Robson on February 23, 2024, 07:10:28 PM
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 07:13:52 PM
Rolo you don't know 23 songs yet ;)
I truly hope that i'll be surprised (positively) about these 23 remaining songs. :)
However, the singles are lowering my expectations.
Post by: Robson on February 23, 2024, 07:18:53 PM
:thumbsup
Post by: Love Expresso on February 23, 2024, 07:26:12 PM
I can understand that those who love certain things, as a reflex automatically feel offended when their way of seeing it is not shared by others. I don't want to think twice if I post a negative comment about something or not just because I know that I can expect being attacked only because of my different opinion. This time, it went pretty civilized.
Of course I WANT to like or even LOVE new stuff by MK. But when I don't, I want to be able to utter an opinion about why not. People with different opinions should just accept it and don't feel the urge of trying to convince me or explaining why I am wrong.
Since yesterday, I listened several times to Ahead Of The Game and like it more than before. Especially this "... a time or twice" bit I just love. His vocals are much better on this one. So there's some hope still.
;D
LE
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 07:37:39 PM
Mark have a hiccup at 1:17?
Post by: PortobelloBelle on February 23, 2024, 07:46:47 PM
I'm having different feelings about these first few songs. I love hearing his voice, I love what he's trying to tell us about his memories and his youth, and even if the notes aren't the same as they used to be in the old days, I love listening to his guitar work. Work. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'm ready to heavy up for Mark on this album, and I'm going to listen to it with fresh ears and a new appreciation for him. If we never see him again on tour, and if we never hear another album, I want to really listen to this one and find out what he saying to us. Us. Watch Me Gone isn't just a song title, it feels like a theme. 🎸
Post by: Love Expresso on February 23, 2024, 07:47:37 PM
Btw, when the Box Set and the babyblue vinyl has been delivered hopefully on April 12th, I also probably will be broke, frustrated and obsessed... :lol
LE
Post by: quizzaciously on February 23, 2024, 07:53:40 PM
One simple idea: If someone has "the right" to say that he loves this or that song, it should be allowed the same for some other one that he hates it. It's as simple as that.
I can understand that those who love certain things, as a reflex automatically feel offended when their way of seeing it is not shared by others. I don't want to think twice if I post a negative comment about something or not just because I know that I can expect being attacked only because of my different opinion. This time, it went pretty civilized.
Of course I WANT to like or even LOVE new stuff by MK. But when I don't, I want to be able to utter an opinion about why not. People with different opinions should just accept it and don't feel the urge of trying to convince me or explaining why I am wrong.
Since yesterday, I listened several times to Ahead Of The Game and like it more than before. Especially this "... a time or twice" bit I just love. His vocals are much better on this one. So there's some hope still.
;D
LE
Mark's art is getting increasingly dividing with time like nearly any artist's work, and battles on this forum get exaggerated too. Mark is just doing stuff and so many factors are clashing together. His age, health, stopping touring, many years of waiting for a new album, missed opportunities, expectations. I can understand all the complaints perfectly, as well as all the praise and messages that we'd rather be thankful we get new music at all.
Imagine how hard it is for the man to come up with new music without recycling almost all of it. Can he truly compose new original music anymore? After half of a century of perpetual songwriting? I was surprised he's still doing it even when Tracker was released, and he's still doing it. That's impressive, not gonna lie. And it's not just being a performer, it's being a creator and performer, which is a hell of a lot harder.
With that said, every piece of art is still art and should be analysed like a piece of art not only in the context of its creation but outside of it too.
Post by: Robson on February 23, 2024, 07:55:36 PM
...And the hopscotch traces...
I like these two parts when Mark sings higher :)
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 08:28:35 PM
Mark's art is getting increasingly dividing with time like nearly any artist's work, and battles on this forum get exaggerated too. Mark is just doing stuff and so many factors are clashing together. His age, health, stopping touring, many years of waiting for a new album, missed opportunities, expectations. I can understand all the complaints perfectly, as well as all the praise and messages that we'd rather be thankful we get new music at all.
Imagine how hard it is for the man to come up with new music without recycling almost all of it. Can he truly compose new original music anymore? After half of a century of perpetual songwriting? I was surprised he's still doing it even when Tracker was released, and he's still doing it. That's impressive, not gonna lie. And it's not just being a performer, it's being a creator and performer, which is a hell of a lot harder.
With that said, every piece of art is still art and should be analysed like a piece of art not only in the context of its creation but outside of it too.
There was some hiatus between MK records. For me, that was never the problem.
A record from a major artist like MK is made by several people.
Mark has suffering from aging, with is bad, expecially for him and we suffer for him too.
He is our main artist and probally was because of him that many of us started or dreamed about a life as a musician. His music can touch us deeper that any other music. He can make us cry, smile and goosebumps in a way that no one can do.
However, exists a MK as a professional musician/producer.
A guy who knows everything about music business.
So he divided his job with GF to keep his stuff going. With is absolutely correct. "Divide to Conquer" - This is the phrase.
I saw a Robbie McIntosh interview that he says that he was helping MK on the LH Musical. With is, again, correct.
He can easily can deliver his scratches to an great arranger or a team or arrangers who can deliver a number of arrangements variations for the new songs and MK will only decide if it was good or no and suggest some new things. Team work.
Seems to me that he only deliver his stuff to GF.
The musicians are almost the same since 1996. So, they KNOW the way that the boss likes his stuff.
What i am complaing is not about the MK abilitys to play guitar. But the lazyness of the song arrangements and the generically delivering from the musicians.
Post by: rmarques821 on February 23, 2024, 08:49:49 PM
I think you're confusing laziness with song simplification. The older he got, the simpler his arrangements have become, that's just the way it is. And if he releases a new album after this one, I expect it to be even simpler in terms of songwriting. And that may not even be 100% true as DTRW had some interesting arrangements.Mark's art is getting increasingly dividing with time like nearly any artist's work, and battles on this forum get exaggerated too. Mark is just doing stuff and so many factors are clashing together. His age, health, stopping touring, many years of waiting for a new album, missed opportunities, expectations. I can understand all the complaints perfectly, as well as all the praise and messages that we'd rather be thankful we get new music at all.
Imagine how hard it is for the man to come up with new music without recycling almost all of it. Can he truly compose new original music anymore? After half of a century of perpetual songwriting? I was surprised he's still doing it even when Tracker was released, and he's still doing it. That's impressive, not gonna lie. And it's not just being a performer, it's being a creator and performer, which is a hell of a lot harder.
With that said, every piece of art is still art and should be analysed like a piece of art not only in the context of its creation but outside of it too.
There was some hiatus between MK records. For me, that was never the problem.
A record from a major artist like MK is made by several people.
Mark has suffering from aging, with is bad, expecially for him and we suffer for him too.
He is our main artist and probally was because of him that many of us started or dreamed about a life as a musician. His music can touch us deeper that any other music. He can make us cry, smile and goosebumps in a way that no one can do.
However, exists a MK as a professional musician/producer.
A guy who knows everything about music business.
So he divided his job with GF to keep his stuff going. With is absolutely correct. "Divide to Conquer" - This is the phrase.
I saw a Robbie McIntosh interview that he says that he was helping MK on the LH Musical. With is, again, correct.
He can easily can deliver his scratches to an great arranger or a team or arrangers who can deliver a number of arrangements variations for the new songs and MK will only decide if it was good or no and suggest some new things. Team work.
Seems to me that he only deliver his stuff to GF.
The musicians are almost the same since 1996. So, they KNOW the way that the boss likes his stuff.
What i am complaing is not about the MK abilitys to play guitar. But the lazyness of the song arrangements and the generically delivering from the musicians.
I have been critical of some of his songs in the past, especially in DTRW, but I have enjoyed listening to these two songs.
I will wait to hear the full album to make my judgement.
You'll miss Mark's songs when he's gone.
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 08:57:38 PM
I think you're confusing laziness with song simplification. The older he got, the simpler his arrangements have become,
You'll miss Mark's songs when he's gone.
I'm sure that i am not confusing laziness with simplification.
Tracker is a simplistic album and has no laziness at all.
Songs like River Of Grog has a very simplistic arrangement and has no lazyness at all.
Post by: Robson on February 23, 2024, 09:05:28 PM
From the album Privateering ;)
Post by: Love Expresso on February 23, 2024, 09:13:50 PM
LE
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 09:15:31 PM
From the album Privateering ;)
Wow, this is new ;)
Post by: Dutchessy on February 23, 2024, 09:17:05 PM
Post by: Robson on February 23, 2024, 09:18:51 PM
Friday night, I am spinning Kill To Get Crimson right now, and Boy sounds it good! Nearly forgot how good as an album this was. On many ways a perfect MK solo album. Maybe that's why my expectations are so high.
LE
Kill To Get Crimson? I remember criticism on the forum that it was a boring album :)
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 09:24:20 PM
Kill To Get Crimson? I remember criticism on the forum that it was a boring album :)
He is beeing sarcastic
Post by: Dutchessy on February 23, 2024, 09:29:59 PM
Kill To Get Crimson? I remember criticism on the forum that it was a boring album :)
He is beeing sarcastic
No i think LE is serious here.
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 09:36:28 PM
No i think LE is serious here.
I mean.
I like KTGC. Its a bit boring? Yes.
But, in comparison to new material, KTGC is a f*king masterpiece.
Post by: Robson on February 23, 2024, 09:42:25 PM
I like watch me gone more than every single song on kill to get crimson.
I always make a list of my favorite first singles. Current:)
1. Darling Pretty/ What It Is
2. Redbud Tree
3. Why Aye Man
4. Ahead Of The Game
5. Border Reiver
6. True Love Will Never Fade
7. Beryl
8. Good On You Son
9. Boom, Like That
Post by: Dutchessy on February 23, 2024, 09:46:44 PM
No i think LE is serious here.
I mean.
I like KTGC. Its a bit boring? Yes.
But, in comparison to new material, KTGC is a f*king masterpiece.
Joking right? Fizzy and the still, fish and the bird... :think
Post by: Love Expresso on February 23, 2024, 09:48:07 PM
LE
Post by: Dutchessy on February 23, 2024, 09:54:06 PM
Lots of hard-bitten strangers here tonight it seems. :P
LE
In the sky i like :)
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 09:55:52 PM
Lots of hard-bitten strangers here tonight it seems. :P
LE
It's Friday Night ;D
Post by: quizzaciously on February 23, 2024, 09:58:34 PM
No i think LE is serious here.
I mean.
I like KTGC. Its a bit boring? Yes.
But, in comparison to new material, KTGC is a f*king masterpiece.
One can argue that all of Mark's albums before 1978 sucked. Because they never existed :lol This is why I'm talking about the natural path of a creative artist. You may notice a lot of creative folks do their best work when they are young. Paul Simon composed "The Sound Of Silence" when he was 21 or whatever. Mark wrote "Brothers In Arms" at 30 (I believe it was written long before it was recorded). Strauss composed Also sprach Zarathustra at 32, Rachmaninoff... You can go on.
You start with nothing, then you have everything, and you end up having nothing again. So I'd drop any expectations at all, MK's new stuff can't be groundbreaking.
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 09:59:41 PM
Joking right? Fizzy and the still, fish and the bird... :think
In The Sky is a powerfull song.
Heart Full Of Holes, Fish And The Bird, Scaf Wife..
Its a Great Album.
Post by: quizzaciously on February 23, 2024, 10:07:15 PM
Joking right? Fizzy and the still, fish and the bird... :think
In The Sky is a powerfull song.
Heart Full Of Holes, Fish And The Bird, Scaf Wife..
Its a Great Album.
Not only that, it's experimental. Half of the album is waltzes, and the other half is played with a pick. This album is waltzing MK reaching for Hank Marvin's sound.
Post by: Wizard on February 23, 2024, 10:10:08 PM
Post by: Robson on February 23, 2024, 10:12:33 PM
Joking right? Fizzy and the still, fish and the bird... :think
In The Sky is a powerfull song.
Heart Full Of Holes, Fish And The Bird, Scaf Wife..
Its a Great Album.
Not only that, it's experimental. Half of the album is waltzes, and the other half is played with a pick. This album is waltzing MK reaching for Hank Marvin's sound.
And the only guitarist is Mark.
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 10:18:16 PM
Not only that, it's experimental. Half of the album is waltzes, and the other half is played with a pick. This album is waltzing MK reaching for Hank Marvin's sound.
Yes. Experimental.
GF said that KTGC was the first attempt for a MK album on BG. He said that they haven't a lot of time recording. Was a tight schedulle.
After the release of Tracker, i ask GF about how would be KTGC if it was recorded today (2015)
He answer me that he and MK thinked about it.
And the possibilities that they could do now.
Post by: quizzaciously on February 23, 2024, 10:29:50 PM
Not only that, it's experimental. Half of the album is waltzes, and the other half is played with a pick. This album is waltzing MK reaching for Hank Marvin's sound.
Yes. Experimental.
GF said that KTGC was the first attempt for a MK album on BG. He said that they haven't a lot of time recording. Was a tight schedulle.
After the release of Tracker, i ask GF about how would be KTGC if it was recorded today (2015)
He answer me that he and MK thinked about it.
And the possibilities that they could do now.
Man, I'd kill to get Mark recorded in any other studio. So many great studios in the world. I'd kill to get Mark revisiting one studio in Malibu he recorded in exactly 20 years ago. I'd kill to get Mark playing with other musicians, so many great musicians in the world. Using other producers. But no, BG+96ers+MK is the formula where any experimentation ends. I wonder if he is seeing these limitations in this seemingly unlimited space, and did he ever think that having this "toy" of a studio is a total overkill for a musician? It's like a movie director would own a film studio.
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 10:39:51 PM
However, exists a MK as a professional musician/producer.
A guy who knows everything about music business.
So he divided his job with GF to keep his stuff going. With is absolutely correct. "Divide to Conquer" - This is the phrase.
I saw a Robbie McIntosh interview that he says that he was helping MK on the LH Musical. With is, again, correct.
He can easily can deliver his scratches to an great arranger or a team or arrangers who can deliver a number of arrangements variations for the new songs and MK will only decide if it was good or no and suggest some new things. Team work.
Seems to me that he only deliver his stuff to GF.
The musicians are almost the same since 1996. So, they KNOW the way that the boss likes his stuff.
What i am complaing is not about the MK abilitys to play guitar. But the lazyness of the song arrangements and the generically delivering from the musicians.
I tried
Post by: 2manyguitars on February 23, 2024, 11:35:55 PM
As some may know I teach music and run a small studio. Part of my job is to deconstruct/reconstruct music for students to discus/analyse and create their own recordings. I deal daily with everything from Rick Astley to Slipknott and everything in between. My point really in all of this is that I try to find the good in what's in front of me regardless of personal taste. That's why some of the critiques on here seem to me to be a bit lazy. It's perfectly possible to find the good in art while still saying 'this is not to my taste'....
Post by: Rolo on February 23, 2024, 11:52:31 PM
I find it interesting how we all see these things so differently.
As some may know I teach music and run a small studio. Part of my job is to deconstruct/reconstruct music for students to discus/analyse and create their own recordings. I deal daily with everything from Rick Astley to Slipknott and everything in between. My point really in all of this is that I try to find the good in what's in front of me regardless of personal taste. That's why some of the critiques on here seem to me to be a bit lazy. It's perfectly possible to find the good in art while still saying 'this is not to my taste'....
Very interesting job on teach music/producing you have.
I like to be on a recording studio. Now i am living in Lisbon. Cause of this, i record stuff from home.
I like a large variety of musical styles.
I don't think that my critics are about musical genres/styles. My critics are all about viscerality.
The song needs to mean something.
Post by: 2manyguitars on February 24, 2024, 12:40:30 AM
I find it interesting how we all see these things so differently.
As some may know I teach music and run a small studio. Part of my job is to deconstruct/reconstruct music for students to discus/analyse and create their own recordings. I deal daily with everything from Rick Astley to Slipknott and everything in between. My point really in all of this is that I try to find the good in what's in front of me regardless of personal taste. That's why some of the critiques on here seem to me to be a bit lazy. It's perfectly possible to find the good in art while still saying 'this is not to my taste'....
Very interesting job on teach music/producing you have.
I like to be on a recording studio. Now i am living in Lisbon. Cause of this, i record stuff from home.
I like a large variety of musical styles.
I don't think that my critics are about musical genres/styles. My critics are all about viscerality.
The song needs to mean something.
And you honestly don't think this means anything?
Come on that's the harshest of criticism. Better to say it doesn't mean anything to you. Doesn't mean it lacks intrinsic artistic value....
Post by: dustyvalentino on February 24, 2024, 12:44:16 AM
I much prefer Greg Leisz than Paul Franklin. He seems to have his own sound and play with real feeling not a Nashville hack. What key is he playing in? It sounds different then the usual crying steel guitar sound.
Calling Paul Franklin a Nashville hack is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read, anywhere.
Post by: 2manyguitars on February 24, 2024, 12:51:59 AM
I much prefer Greg Leisz than Paul Franklin. He seems to have his own sound and play with real feeling not a Nashville hack. What key is he playing in? It sounds different then the usual crying steel guitar sound.
Calling Paul Franklin a Nashville hack is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read, anywhere.
Yep absolute genius. Took pedal steel to corners of the musical world it had no right to go. Up there with Bela Fleck and Tommy E as one of the best.
Dusty, have you ever played one? You really get an appreciation of how great someone like PF is by sitting behind one. It's complexity as an instrument is overlooked....
Post by: quizzaciously on February 24, 2024, 01:03:03 AM
I find it interesting how we all see these things so differently.
As some may know I teach music and run a small studio. Part of my job is to deconstruct/reconstruct music for students to discus/analyse and create their own recordings. I deal daily with everything from Rick Astley to Slipknott and everything in between. My point really in all of this is that I try to find the good in what's in front of me regardless of personal taste. That's why some of the critiques on here seem to me to be a bit lazy. It's perfectly possible to find the good in art while still saying 'this is not to my taste'....
Very interesting job on teach music/producing you have.
I like to be on a recording studio. Now i am living in Lisbon. Cause of this, i record stuff from home.
I like a large variety of musical styles.
I don't think that my critics are about musical genres/styles. My critics are all about viscerality.
The song needs to mean something.
Can't agree with you 2manyguitars. I dabble at teaching music myself, mostly Mark's music in fact, and settled on the course to learn all his songs in depth. So I am almost "obligated" to "like" them all, even masterpieces like "Hot Dog" or "Follow The Ribbon". But I truly love all his stuff. It's the soundtrack to more than half of my life. I wait for all new releases, and I feel at home with his music, no matter how many other artists I listen to, and like you and Rolo, I listen to a lot.
Most people here are truly die-hard fans, some of them follow Mark right from the beginning, so for his entire career. I was fortunate to witness his career in real-time from 2005. My criticism is based on my experience of listening to his music for 19 years and music released in the past. All the guys who seem to be grumpy all the time here, are all usually writing good stuff, not lazy stuff at all. Lazy criticism is something like a 2-word review from Spinal Tap.
LE is unbelievable in his understanding of MK's lyrics for example, and I read his words carefully. Other complaints are also understandable. All of my MK-fan friends I regularly speak to who are not present on this forum agree two latest songs by Mark aren't his best, to say the least, and we are not terribly impressed. Will we love Mark's music less? Hell, naw!
Post by: 2manyguitars on February 24, 2024, 01:11:25 AM
I find it interesting how we all see these things so differently.
As some may know I teach music and run a small studio. Part of my job is to deconstruct/reconstruct music for students to discus/analyse and create their own recordings. I deal daily with everything from Rick Astley to Slipknott and everything in between. My point really in all of this is that I try to find the good in what's in front of me regardless of personal taste. That's why some of the critiques on here seem to me to be a bit lazy. It's perfectly possible to find the good in art while still saying 'this is not to my taste'....
Very interesting job on teach music/producing you have.
I like to be on a recording studio. Now i am living in Lisbon. Cause of this, i record stuff from home.
I like a large variety of musical styles.
I don't think that my critics are about musical genres/styles. My critics are all about viscerality.
The song needs to mean something.
Can't agree with you 2manyguitars. I dabble at teaching music myself, mostly Mark's music in fact, and settled on the course to learn all his songs in depth. So I am almost "obligated" to "like" them all, even masterpieces like "Hot Dog" or "Follow The Ribbon". But I truly love all his stuff. It's the soundtrack to more than half of my life. I wait for all new releases, and I feel at home with his music, no matter how many other artists I listen to, and like you and Rolo, I listen to a lot.
Most people here are truly die-hard fans, some of them follow Mark right from the beginning, so for his entire career. I was fortunate to witness his career in real-time from 2005. My criticism is based on my experience of listening to his music for 19 years and music released in the past. All the guys who seem to be grumpy all the time here, are all usually writing good stuff, not lazy stuff at all. Lazy criticism is something like a 2-word review from Spinal Tap.
LE is unbelievable in his understanding of MK's lyrics for example, and I read his words carefully. Other complaints are also understandable. All of my MK-fan friends I regularly speak to who are not present on this forum agree two latest songs by Mark aren't his best, to say the least, and we are not terribly impressed. Will we love Mark's music less? Hell, naw!
No one is obliged to like anything but you can dislike something and still have respect for the artistic process.There's complaints, constructive criticism, and then there's something beyond that which is what I object to. Maybe it's a language issue or maybe its just me! I'm not a big fan of any of the songs you mentioned either. Just in this case I can't see why anyone wouldn't see something of worth in this song. It's a very private man opening up about a difficult time in his life. That alone grants it some merit.
I actually wonder if this album is going to have a confessional tone to it, Mark's equivalent of a trip to alcoholics anonymous!
Post by: Eddie Fox on February 24, 2024, 01:13:45 AM
Post by: dustyvalentino on February 24, 2024, 01:29:49 AM
I much prefer Greg Leisz than Paul Franklin. He seems to have his own sound and play with real feeling not a Nashville hack. What key is he playing in? It sounds different then the usual crying steel guitar sound.
Calling Paul Franklin a Nashville hack is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read, anywhere.
Yep absolute genius. Took pedal steel to corners of the musical world it had no right to go. Up there with Bela Fleck and Tommy E as one of the best.
Dusty, have you ever played one? You really get an appreciation of how great someone like PF is by sitting behind one. It's complexity as an instrument is overlooked....
Yes, I own a basic 3 pedal one. I can get by well enough on some basics to play it live. They sound so cool that even a few basic bends will impress people!
But PF is on another planet.
Post by: 2manyguitars on February 24, 2024, 01:43:48 AM
I much prefer Greg Leisz than Paul Franklin. He seems to have his own sound and play with real feeling not a Nashville hack. What key is he playing in? It sounds different then the usual crying steel guitar sound.
Calling Paul Franklin a Nashville hack is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read, anywhere.
Yep absolute genius. Took pedal steel to corners of the musical world it had no right to go. Up there with Bela Fleck and Tommy E as one of the best.
Dusty, have you ever played one? You really get an appreciation of how great someone like PF is by sitting behind one. It's complexity as an instrument is overlooked....
Yes, I own a basic 3 pedal one. I can get by well enough on some basics to play it live. They sound so cool that even a few basic bends will impress people!
But PF is on another planet.
Sounds great! I'm lucky to have one in the studio although it doesn't get the use it should really. With the full 8 pedals and knee levers I can't think of a more complex instrument to master....
Post by: Banjo99uk on February 24, 2024, 03:00:18 AM
Post by: Robson on February 24, 2024, 03:10:32 AM
According to Rolling Stone Italy:
"Mark Knopfler says goodbye to Newcastle in 'Watch Me Gone'.
A departing train, a city, someone to say goodbye to, a dream that only one in a million can achieve. Watch Me Gone is the story of when Knopfler left Newcastle upon Tyne in northern England to pursue his desire to be a musician."
Years 1956 -1967. But already in Newcastle he was fulfilling his dreams. Duet with Sue Hercombe:)
Post by: Rolo on February 24, 2024, 12:21:33 PM
And you honestly don't think this means anything?
Come on that's the harshest of criticism. Better to say it doesn't mean anything to you. Doesn't mean it lacks intrinsic artistic value....
What I said maybe was misunderstood because a language barrier.
What i said about "The songs need to mean something" it's not about don't having meaning to someone. Every person reacts different to, in our case, music.
What i wanted do say when the new MK material has a lack of meaning, in reality is about lack of purpose/passion/intensity/power.
Nowadays, is too much generic. Almost played on autopilot.
The song WMG is there, when i listen, i feel that something is missing and i am not talking about MK's guitar work. As i said before, a MK album is made by several people.
Pavel said a interesting stuff about MK change his BG/96ers habits.
I totally agree with him.
Post by: Silvertown on February 24, 2024, 12:28:44 PM
Post by: quizzaciously on February 24, 2024, 01:17:07 PM
And you honestly don't think this means anything?
Come on that's the harshest of criticism. Better to say it doesn't mean anything to you. Doesn't mean it lacks intrinsic artistic value....
What I said maybe was misunderstood because a language barrier.
What i said about "The songs need to mean something" it's not about don't having meaning to someone. Every person reacts different to, in our case, music.
What i wanted do say when the new MK material has a lack of meaning, in reality is about lack of purpose/passion/intensity/power.
Nowadays, is too much generic. Almost played on autopilot.
The song WMG is there, when i listen, i feel that something is missing and i am not talking about MK's guitar work. As i said before, a MK album is made by several people.
Pavel said a interesting stuff about MK change his BG/96ers habits.
I totally agree with him.
The funniest thing is for us sceptics, at least I'm talking about myself, blind admiration and constant praise are as disturbing as constant scepticism for someone who's more economical with criticism. I've read things like it's the best song they ever heard, and people cried listening to it. Then I wonder, if "Watch Me Gone" makes you cry, what "Schindler's List" theme will do to you? Annihilate?
The truth, as always, is something in between. There is a kernel of overall laziness in this production, Mark being Mark, Guy being Guy, and the song is touching if you're looking for it. "Time for me to disappear" coming from MK is a bit of revelation and touching as hell. The question is, on this scale with emotions on one side, and rationality on the other, what wins? To me, it's, unfortunately, the latter.
Post by: quizzaciously on February 24, 2024, 01:48:48 PM
Post by: Matchstickman on February 24, 2024, 04:58:30 PM
Post by: Knopflerfan on February 24, 2024, 05:16:50 PM
Post by: Love Expresso on February 24, 2024, 05:26:45 PM
What Mark should have done years ago, for variation, is to hire Daniel Lanois and give him free hands. Lanois is the man behind two of Dylan's best records, and the moody atmosphere on those is sublime.
Yes, Oh, Mercy and Time Out Of Mind. I agree that they are among Bob's best albums. I remember that Guy once has been asked about Lanois and his answer was no, he is way too left or something like that. Never understood exactly what he meant by that.
LE
Post by: Matchstickman on February 24, 2024, 06:10:53 PM
What Mark should have done years ago, for variation, is to hire Daniel Lanois and give him free hands. Lanois is the man behind two of Dylan's best records, and the moody atmosphere on those is sublime.
Yes, Oh, Mercy and Time Out Of Mind. I agree that they are among Bob's best albums. I remember that Guy once has been asked about Lanois and his answer was no, he is way too left or something like that. Never understood exactly what he meant by that.
LE
Interesting! Maybe out of left field...? :think
Post by: Love Expresso on February 24, 2024, 06:14:35 PM
LE
Post by: quizzaciously on February 24, 2024, 06:58:47 PM
What Mark should have done years ago, for variation, is to hire Daniel Lanois and give him free hands. Lanois is the man behind two of Dylan's best records, and the moody atmosphere on those is sublime.
Yes, Oh, Mercy and Time Out Of Mind. I agree that they are among Bob's best albums. I remember that Guy once has been asked about Lanois and his answer was no, he is way too left or something like that. Never understood exactly what he meant by that.
LE
Interesting! Maybe out of left field...? :think
Interesting info indeed. So it further solidifies the point that this approach is intentional. I think "left" in this context is quite obvious. Right is the right (aka Mark's) way, and left is everything we mere plebs are discussing here. As in more variety in musicians and producers, acoustic versions of stuff, experiments with sound. Somehow Mark managed to put his main teacher and inspiration to shame with his consistency ;D
Post by: H97 on February 24, 2024, 08:02:05 PM
Post by: dustyvalentino on February 24, 2024, 08:25:43 PM
I mean understand left as political direction of course but why should that be important in terms of producing music? So I guess it's another language-barrier-mystery to me :lol
LE
MK is pretty left politically. At least as left as you can claims to be as a multimillionaire with various mansions and sports cars.
So I don’t think it’s political.
Post by: Love Expresso on February 24, 2024, 08:45:39 PM
I mean understand left as political direction of course but why should that be important in terms of producing music? So I guess it's another language-barrier-mystery to me :lol
LE
MK is pretty left politically. At least as left as you can claims to be as a multimillionaire with various mansions and sports cars.
So I don’t think it’s political.
Yes thanks. I couldn't imagine either. But as it was the only meaning I was aware of, I asked for another, more correct meaning. I guess Hugo's "left of field" sounds pretty good, thanks very much, Hugo97 :wave
LE
Post by: dmg on February 24, 2024, 10:22:29 PM
In the first moments of the song I thought, here we go, a beautiful Knopfler song. Then it fizzled out and went nowhere. It is a nice song that could have been so much better in another producers hands maybe.
Pretty much exactly how I feel. Most of his albums recently have been creatively lacking on the production side of things. Yes, they're sonically good but they're ever so dull.
Quizzy said some interesting stuff about the BG/96ers habits. I totally agree with him. Very much thinking 'inside' the box.
Post by: dustyvalentino on February 24, 2024, 11:06:37 PM
I mean understand left as political direction of course but why should that be important in terms of producing music? So I guess it's another language-barrier-mystery to me :lol
LE
MK is pretty left politically. At least as left as you can claims to be as a multimillionaire with various mansions and sports cars.
So I don’t think it’s political.
Yes thanks. I couldn't imagine either. But as it was the only meaning I was aware of, I asked for another, more correct meaning. I guess Hugo's "left of field" sounds pretty good, thanks very much, Hugo97 :wave
LE
I would need the original quote to get the context. I don’t remember the word left being used, but I remember Guy saying it would never happen.
Post by: Robson on February 24, 2024, 11:22:59 PM
Post by: quizzaciously on February 25, 2024, 12:39:10 AM
Mark built his own studio and now Malibu? I understand that not everyone likes the sound, production, etc., but dreams also have their limits :)
I don't see the problem here. The studio is just another instrument just like a guitar. It's a tool to express your creative ambitions, it's not a temple you've built to worship your music. The fact you have a studio doesn't make you restricted from entering other studios. Besides, nobody cares where the album is recorded, I doubt any normal fans are even aware Mark has his studio. But the studio has an enormous effect on the music. Location, rooms, crew, equipment... It's like "Going Home" on acoustic guitar, on a Les Paul or a Strat — they all may have 6 strings and the same tuning. But boy they surely sound different!
Post by: quizzaciously on February 25, 2024, 01:20:02 AM
Mark built his own studio and now Malibu? I understand that not everyone likes the sound, production, etc., but dreams also have their limits :)
I don't see the problem here. The studio is just another instrument just like a guitar. It's a tool to express your creative ambitions, it's not a temple you've built to worship your music. The fact you have a studio doesn't make you restricted from entering other studios. Besides, nobody cares where the album is recorded, I doubt any normal fans are even aware Mark has his studio. But the studio has an enormous effect on the music. Location, rooms, crew, equipment... It's like "Going Home" on acoustic guitar, on a Les Paul or a Strat — they all may have 6 strings and the same tuning. But boy they surely sound different!
A producer is also an instrument. You use his creative force in conjunction with yours and amplify or decrease your ambitions. I'm not saying Mark must drop everything and close BG, what I'm saying is — there's a clear pattern here in the discussion of people getting bored with "the formula", that's all. And probably rightfully so. We just wish some things were changed at some point, however, Mark is focused on being as predictable as humanly possible.
All he could've done (Live at BG album, any live album, acoustic album, blues album, country album, experimental album) was exchanged for a seemingly copy-and-paste routine of recording albums with all the usual suspects and copy-and-paste tours. MK ought to be one of the greatest examples of wasted opportunities in music history. The setlist drama, the absence of live albums drama, the similarity of albums and tours drama, Guy's takeover drama — so many things to worry about in MK's world.
Post by: Mossguitar on February 25, 2024, 07:41:48 AM
Post by: quizzaciously on February 25, 2024, 09:47:58 AM
Haha, I would say that MK is one of the most successfull persons in the music business ever. One may not like his choices, but I think they are choices, not missed opportunities. (And with every choice comes new opportunities and indefinite missed opportunities, of course.) I don’t see him as a victim of GF, BG studios or his own personality either, but one with intergrity not trying to copy other’s paths. And as I said, extremely successfull, both business wise and, I guess, as a person. Do I like all his choices? Not at all. Do I find extremely slow music a bit boring. Yes, I do. Am I a bit tired of MK making the Privateering record over and over again? Absolutely. Does he still inspire me? Yes, oddly enough.
Well said! Of course, Mark inspires us, he's terribly efficient at it. We all oddly love MK because he's so unique, not despite this. And no matter what he does, he does it with class and success. Which is a bummer if you think about it. If everything he does is cool, one can lament over things he's never done. By missed opportunities, I meant I just don't understand what he gained from having his studio and a band that's more consistent than Dire Straits ever were.
With a studio, he apparently gained the ability to record music as technically perfectly as possible and a place to record his interviews. That's it. Even his British Grove Broadcast radio show lasted only for 24 episodes and went into obscurity. But the guy seemingly lives in his studio, right? And yet, no live albums, no change in the number of albums, their quantity and diversity. He recorded the same amount of albums if he never had BG in the first place.
With this band, he gained the ability to record songs at the speed of light and perform anything anywhere. But all he does with this spectacular band is give them the same set of songs year after year. And no live album to marvel at their art save for the 2006 DVD, a few miscellaneous recordings, and a whole bunch of questionable-quality concert recordings which are supposed to replace live albums. I just sometimes don't get it.
Post by: Mossguitar on February 25, 2024, 11:36:35 AM
Post by: Silvertown on February 25, 2024, 12:08:40 PM
Post by: Robson on February 25, 2024, 01:33:16 PM
Post by: Love Expresso on February 25, 2024, 01:47:39 PM
It's good that this isn't the finale of the album. I hope the twelfth song will have more light and hope.
Well, we can already hear snippets from track no. 12 in the video pt 1. What strikes me is that it seems to have almost the same instrumentation and sounds almost the same, same mood, same style, same tempo as Watch Me Gone, even the backing vocals sound as prominent in the mix, as if both tracks were "song twins". But they spoke about a wide range of variety in the video, so I have some hope left for some variety and diversity on the album. ;)
LE
Post by: Robson on February 25, 2024, 02:12:59 PM
I prefer words:
You are one deep river, old friend One deep river, amen...
than:
watch me gone, watch me gone...
Post by: Love Expresso on February 25, 2024, 02:34:16 PM
A Place where We Used To Live and Pale Imitation have the same nostalgia about the past. I don't know why but maybe the reason for coming back was a sad one (funeral) and it gave the thoughts a darker note. That was why I first thought about this song being about his sister and the initial idea coming up at a family gathering when she died, but that was wrong. Do we know what happened to his first wife? I don't as I always skip these gossip threads when they come up here at the forum.
Guy has called the album "deep" several times now and I begin to understand what he means with it. I wouldn't be surprised if his complicated relation to David would be a song theme somewhere on this record also.
LE
Post by: Robson on February 25, 2024, 02:38:47 PM
Post by: Iron Hand on February 25, 2024, 08:02:37 PM
But nowadays, man... i miss Tracker.I think one of the issues I have with Tracker is that the most energetic song (of the main album at least) was released first. It didn't turn out to be indicative of the album's overall feel. Whether or not there is anything similar to Beryl on One Deep River, at least I'm not going into a slow album expecting it to have more than one upbeat song.
a whole bunch of questionable-quality concert recordings which are supposed to replace live albums. I just sometimes don't get it.Hopefully there will be one or several live solo box sets similar to the DS live one...
Post by: GIUMK on February 25, 2024, 08:25:56 PM
But nowadays, man... i miss Tracker.I think one of the issues I have with Tracker is that the most energetic song (of the main album at least) was released first. It didn't turn out to be indicative of the album's overall feel. Whether or not there is anything similar to Beryl on One Deep River, at least I'm not going into a slow album expecting it to have more than one upbeat song.a whole bunch of questionable-quality concert recordings which are supposed to replace live albums. I just sometimes don't get it.Hopefully there will be one or several live solo box sets similar to the DS live one...
Sorry, I don't want to cause any controversy and I respect your point of view, but if AOTG isn't cheerful then what do we want? I think it's cheerful, at least for me.
Post by: Knopflerfan on February 25, 2024, 11:48:09 PM
Nice touch with the Kittiwakes....
https://youtu.be/cRF1w0yOheo?feature=shared
Post by: Knut on February 26, 2024, 01:28:32 AM
Post by: Iron Hand on February 26, 2024, 09:52:10 AM
It is, compared to Watch Me Gone. But it hasn't hooked me in the way that Beryl or Good On You Son did.But nowadays, man... i miss Tracker.I think one of the issues I have with Tracker is that the most energetic song (of the main album at least) was released first. It didn't turn out to be indicative of the album's overall feel. Whether or not there is anything similar to Beryl on One Deep River, at least I'm not going into a slow album expecting it to have more than one upbeat song.
Sorry, I don't want to cause any controversy and I respect your point of view, but if AOTG isn't cheerful then what do we want? I think it's cheerful, at least for me.
Post by: Rail King on February 26, 2024, 11:50:06 AM
Great song, sounds like it could have been on Privateering.
Yes. Musically, it has similarities to the wonderful "Follow the Ribbon" (which was a B-side to "Privateering", and should have been the closing album track in my opinion).
The Topolski background voices suprised me, too. But I've only listened to the song once (will wait for the album now), and the fact that I still hear them in my head after days is a good sign, I guess. I liked the song a lot.
Post by: Rail King on February 26, 2024, 11:54:17 AM
A good song indeed, IMHO. At last. Definitely one of his best songs since 2015. Some of the customary autoplagiarism (musical sections stolen from River Towns, Seattle and Wherever I Go), but also some original chord changes worked out and great melody lines and singing. And the arrangement is beautiful, including his guitar. And dark and intriguing lyrics. Very good stuff overall
I agree. And about the "autoplagiarims": True, but you could say that about every songwriter/musician, and even artists in general. I don't know one single exception. Everyone falls back occasionally on what has worked in the past. Just call it style.
Post by: Rail King on February 26, 2024, 01:38:52 PM
"It's all about the surprise effect"
I'm often surprised by how emotionally I react to certain moments in Mark's songs when I hear them for the first time. That can be a chord change, a lick, the combination of meaning and music ... anything. He regularly comes up with such moments, so I'm no longer surprised that they come, but I always am when they do.
I'm not so sure (as Sting is) whether an element of surprise is a necessary ingredient for a good song, though. After all, any surprise will be gone when you listen to it the second time. A great song stays great, however - even when you know it by heart and there are zero surprises anymore.
When it comes to judging the quality of songs, I follow this simple rule: The more I want to listen to the song again, the better it is. I'll want to listen to "Watch Me Gone" a great many times.
Post by: Rail King on February 26, 2024, 01:40:37 PM
Nice enough but dull and instantly forgettable. Backing singers seem completely pointless to me.
After all these years spent on this album the first two released songs have been completely underwhelming.
It may be instantly forgettable to you, but it has been going around in my head all morning! :)
Mine, too.
Post by: Rail King on February 26, 2024, 01:43:03 PM
I think it's a beautiful effort. 2 things that really struck me. 1. Very very personal from mk. Absolutely no frills or hiding behind metaphor. 2. The unforgiving, almost mercenary nature of the central character in the song. Despite the sadness there is absolutely no remorse. Quite stark from mk and emotionally wrenching in itself. Echoes of his (apparent) treatment of his brother and perhaps shows the ruthlessness needed to be successful whilst also managing to create a commentary on the ridiculousness of the whole dream of 'making it'.
Only MK could channel such emotions in such a subtle way. The song really has many layers and is a wolf in sheep's clothing....
Very well put.
Post by: Rail King on February 26, 2024, 01:51:21 PM
And I have the feeling that some people here are thrilled by everything, no matter what MK puts out. Sorry ::)
I have the feeling that some people here say exactly this after every new album he releases.
You can of course keep being disappointed by the "lack of guitars" and "lack of energy" again and again. And then again. Or you could accept the fact that what he does is not for you, and find some other artist that meets your needs.
Post by: 2manyguitars on February 26, 2024, 02:11:51 PM
And I have the feeling that some people here are thrilled by everything, no matter what MK puts out. Sorry ::)
I have the feeling that some people here say exactly this after every new album he releases.
You can of course keep being disappointed by the "lack of guitars" and "lack of energy" again and again. And then again. Or you could accept the fact that what he does is not for you, and find some other artist that meets your needs.
Kind of agree. Although I think its untenable to deny peoples right to an opinion or to express it on here. For me its the manner in which its done. I mean who on here can really say that Mark is lazy? Who has spent time with him to make that assessment? Its ok to say 'this sounds lazy to me' but please don't put your perceptions on to the artists effort. Just say you don't like it and move on.
I've no doubt that these songs were meticulously crafted with attention to the smallest detail that many of us (Even those of us lucky enough to have spent time in a studio) struggle to grasp.
Post by: Rail King on February 26, 2024, 02:13:08 PM
I much prefer Greg Leisz than Paul Franklin. He seems to have his own sound and play with real feeling not a Nashville hack.
Interesting statement (although I disagree). If anybody should know the reason why he didn't use Paul Franklin this time, but Greg Leisz, I would be very interested to know.
Post by: Rail King on February 26, 2024, 02:17:22 PM
What Mark should have done years ago, for variation, is to hire Daniel Lanois and give him free hands. Lanois is the man behind two of Dylan's best records, and the moody atmosphere on those is sublime.
:thumbsup
Post by: jbaent on February 26, 2024, 02:22:13 PM
I much prefer Greg Leisz than Paul Franklin. He seems to have his own sound and play with real feeling not a Nashville hack.
Interesting statement (although I disagree). If anybody should know the reason why he didn't use Paul Franklin this time, but Greg Leisz, I would be very interested to know.
When MK was recording with the band in London, Paul Franklin was in Nashville recording his second record with Vince Gill as a duo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op-N9pdpikw&list=PLyBjdp7HWcEMfK70lQMwTzZVCLVaB17ye
Post by: Rail King on February 26, 2024, 02:31:29 PM
I much prefer Greg Leisz than Paul Franklin. He seems to have his own sound and play with real feeling not a Nashville hack.
Interesting statement (although I disagree). If anybody should know the reason why he didn't use Paul Franklin this time, but Greg Leisz, I would be very interested to know.
When MK was recording with the band in London, Paul Franklin was in Nashville recording his second record with Vince Gill as a duo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op-N9pdpikw&list=PLyBjdp7HWcEMfK70lQMwTzZVCLVaB17ye
Thank you, that may have been the simple reason. A problem of availablity. Maybe I'll ask Guy about it.
Post by: jabbathehut on February 26, 2024, 02:56:53 PM
So far so good.I like these type of MK songs.For sure its not breaking any new ground which is fine with me very few artists is the latter part of their careers do.
Post by: GIUMK on February 26, 2024, 08:40:22 PM
It is, compared to Watch Me Gone. But it hasn't hooked me in the way that Beryl or Good On You Son did.But nowadays, man... i miss Tracker.I think one of the issues I have with Tracker is that the most energetic song (of the main album at least) was released first. It didn't turn out to be indicative of the album's overall feel. Whether or not there is anything similar to Beryl on One Deep River, at least I'm not going into a slow album expecting it to have more than one upbeat song.
Sorry, I don't want to cause any controversy and I respect your point of view, but if AOTG isn't cheerful then what do we want? I think it's cheerful, at least for me.
De gustibus non disputandum est. ;)
Post by: Rolo on February 27, 2024, 12:19:36 PM
But nowadays, man... i miss Tracker.I think one of the issues I have with Tracker is that the most energetic song (of the main album at least) was released first. It didn't turn out to be indicative of the album's overall feel. Whether or not there is anything similar to Beryl on One Deep River, at least I'm not going into a slow album expecting it to have more than one upbeat song.
Beryl as the main single from Tracker were fine.
The first single from any record is, generally, the 'upbeat/energetic' one.
Tracker was a shock to me because the album has a 'unfinished' vibe. That vibe feels nice on songs like Hot Dog or 38 Special.
Songs like River Towns and Skydiver (i hate this one) are my instant skippers.
Using football as reference, 8 of 10 Mark shots were goal, and the remain 2 were 'on post'
Tracker, in my opinion, has half of tracklist 'on post'
DTRW has 50% 'on post' and 30% 'out'.
After the new singles. I miss Tracker
Post by: Rail King on February 27, 2024, 02:36:30 PM
Not over listening to the songs as i don't want them to stand out too much when we have the album but be part of the natural flow.
So far so good.I like these type of MK songs.For sure its not breaking any new ground which is fine with me very few artists is the latter part of their careers do.
Yes, exactly, who really breaks new ground? And why would that be so important? I care much more about what artists plant on the ground they have. And whether or not it will grow on me.
**gardening metaphors off**
Post by: the visitor on February 29, 2024, 03:26:04 PM
For me, I'm more of a self professed Straits fan than an MK fan. I've found a lot of his solo work not to my taste and missing a quality to it from earlier days, as well as often hiding behind abstract subject matter drawn from what feels like books he has read, or memories of people that have come back to him whilst having a doze or a cup of tea.
Watch me gone particularly gets right back the essence of why I liked Dire Straits in the first place. The song is simply so honest, and true. It's almost heartbreaking to hear MK is almost a prisoner of his songs and ability, especially in the song line "there was no choice". Maybe it is Mark facing his mortality which drives this focus.
Post by: Matchstickman on March 02, 2024, 05:33:45 PM
But nowadays, man... i miss Tracker.I think one of the issues I have with Tracker is that the most energetic song (of the main album at least) was released first. It didn't turn out to be indicative of the album's overall feel. Whether or not there is anything similar to Beryl on One Deep River, at least I'm not going into a slow album expecting it to have more than one upbeat song.
Beryl certainly made sense as a single, as it was energetic and essentially sounded like Sultans 40 years down the road. A friend of mine commented that it sounded typical of MK, and I had to inform him that Mark hadn't really sounded much like that in decades :)
But Tracker suffers from burying Beryl so late in the game in the order of the tracks. Beryl and Basil should have swapped places, and the entire album would have felt different.
Post by: 461oceanblvd on March 26, 2024, 10:14:22 PM
I like the song, although it's possible I'm just happy to get new material.
Post by: Robson on March 26, 2024, 10:40:58 PM
I could be wrong, but I think he's pretty heavily featured on whole album :)
Post by: Dutchessy on March 26, 2024, 11:00:51 PM
Post by: Dutchessy on April 10, 2024, 11:42:30 AM
Post by: rmarques821 on April 10, 2024, 04:04:47 PM
So beautiful, so simple but so emotional.
Post by: Robson on April 20, 2024, 08:52:11 PM
Mark sang this fragment beautifully, differently and movingly. I love this song.
Post by: border_reiver on April 20, 2024, 10:51:16 PM
Any one else who hears it? :)
Post by: FabioSorbello on May 07, 2024, 01:25:55 AM
The context, the melody, the strong reference to Mark’s crucial decision between 1973 and 1974 to move to London and give up his spouse have a huge emotional impact on me. Without that sacrifice and determination I would have been a different person. I can’t stop listening to it and feeling emotional.
I am incredibly grateful to Mark’s work, the company of his songs, the growth of the breath of my music palate owed to his collaborations, and the inspiration he has been to my own creativity over the last 35 years.
In "Watch me gone," Mark crafts a lyrical journey through the complexities of love, loss, and personal ambition. The song is a poignant reflection on the end of Knopfler's relationship with Kathleen Urwin White, interwoven with his aspirations and initial struggles to breakthrough in the music industry. The song's opening lines immediately set the tone, evoking a sense of departure and forward motion. Knopfler reminisces about leaving Leeds to pursue his musical dreams, symbolised by the train departing for a "big beat in a big life." This departure is both literal and metaphorical, marking a pivotal moment in Knopfler's life where he chooses to follow his passion despite the inevitable heartache and uncertainty that accompanies such a decision. The chorus, "Watch me going, Watch me gone," captures the bittersweetness of this moment, as Knopfler acknowledges Kathleen's presence in his life while also recognising the irreversible nature of his departure. The first part of the chorus ‘Watch me going’ refers to the time when Mark repeatedly left his marital home in Leeds to attempt his musical breakthrough in London. The second part of the chorus “Watch me gone” is a statement for the present time as Kathy cannot but watch him gone due to his popularity and fame. The song seems an attempt to communicate with Kathy one more time to say that he loved her, that what happened may have felt wrong at that time but was necessary: it was no one’s fault. The repetition "watch me gone" reinforces the finality of his decision and inevitability of their separation. As the song progresses, Knopfler expresses a mix of frustration, obsession, and uncertainty. He acknowledges the hardships they faced and the role that his own ambition played in their breakup. Despite the pain and heartache, Knopfler remains resolute in his decision, recognising that leaving was necessary for both his personal and professional growth.
"Watch me gone" is a testament to the complexities of love, ambition, and self-discovery. The song invites listeners to reflect on the inevitability of change and the courage required to pursue one's dreams, even in the face of uncertainty and adversity. The song captures the universal themes of longing, resilience, and the enduring power of music to heal and inspire.
Let’s delve into each line of the lyrics one by one.
“There was a train leaving for a big beat in a big life": This line sets the stage for the song, introducing the metaphorical journey that Mark embarked on. The train represents the opportunity for a new beginning, a chance to pursue his dreams. The phrase "big beat in a big life" suggests the excitement and promise of this new path, hinting at the vibrant and dynamic world that awaited him."Are you coming? I may have asked you once or twice": Here, Mark addresses Kathleen inviting her to join him on his journey. The repetition of the question emphasises his desire for her companionship, highlighting the emotional significance of their relationship and the difficulty of parting ways."But I'd already left the hallway with broken lights": This line vividly depicts Mark’s departure from their shared past, symbolised by the hallway with broken lights. The broken lights may represent the fractured nature of their relationship, suggesting that it was already in a state of disrepair before he decided to leave."Some dingy landing we used to tumble from": The mention of a "dingy landing" recalls memories of their shared experiences, both joyful and tumultuous. The word "dingy" conveys a sense of decay or neglect, suggesting that their relationship may have been marred by hardship or conflict."Where the stairs were cracked and worn, whatever": This line further emphasises the dilapidated state of their relationship or place, with the cracked and worn stairs serving as a metaphor for the challenges they faced. It may also be a reference to the state of their house at that time and his current house. The casual use of the word "whatever" suggests a sense of resignation or acceptance of those circumstances."Watch me go, babe, watch me gone": The repetition of this refrain underscores the finality of Mark’s departure, as he bids farewell to Kathleen and begins his journey alone. The use of the term "babe" adds a personal touch, highlighting the intimacy of their relationship even in its final moments."And the songs were pushing harder all the time": Here, Mark reflects on his growing obsession with his music career, which intensified over time. The metaphor of songs "pushing" suggests a sense of urgency or pressure to succeed, highlighting the competitive nature of the music industry and the challenges he knew he had to face to pursue his dreams."Wasn’t your fault / Then again it wasn't mine": This line captures the complexity of the relationship and the blame that may have been placed on both sides. Mark acknowledges that neither he nor Kathleen was solely responsible for the breakdown of their relationship."Broke, frustrated / And obsessed": These words convey the emotional turmoil that Mark experienced as he grappled with the challenges of his music career and the end of his relationship. He felt broken and frustrated by the obstacles he faced, yet he remained determined, unable to let go of his dreams despite the hardships."You saw me as ridiculous, I guess": Here, Mark reflects on Kathleen's perception of him during their relationship. He acknowledges that she may have viewed his aspirations as unrealistic or impractical, perhaps feeling frustrated or disillusioned by his relentless pursuit of his music career."And I didn’t know from nothing not even my own voice": This line captures Mark’s sense of uncertainty and self-doubt as he navigates the early challenges of his music career. He felt lost and disconnected from himself, unsure of his own identity and purpose in life. He may have doubted that his own voice was good enough to sing. "But I knew there was something and I knew there was no choice": Despite his uncertainty, Mark remained steadfast in his belief that music was his calling. He felt compelled to pursue his dreams, recognising that there was no other path for him to follow."I was leaving mostly heartache but I was in no mood to rejoice": While he was filled with sadness and regret over the end of his relationship with Kathleen, he also must have felt a sense of determination and resolve to move forward."There was so much that was wrong, whatever". He dismisses the difficulties and challenges of their relationship with the word "whatever," suggesting a sense of resignation or acceptance of their circumstances. He acknowledges that their relationship was flawed, yet he is unwilling to dwell on the past."Well, maybe I’ll hit the road with Bob or maybe hitch a ride with Van": This line alludes to Mark’s aspirations to follow the footsteps of his musical heroes: Bob Dylan, Van Morrison and others. As we all know, time proved Mark right, as he recorded several songs with Bob Dylan and Van Morrison and toured with Bob.
"It’s all gonna happen and I'll be a happening man": Here, Mark expresses confidence in his ability to achieve success. He emphasises how his dreams materialised and he became a celebrated figure in his own right."And God must still be laughing at a boy and his plans": Mark deliberately plays down his dreams: time slowly erase our traces in history. This line reflects Mark humility and self-awareness. He acknowledges that his dreams and aspirations may seem foolish or naive in the grand scheme of things.
"In the streets where they were born": This line alludes to the roots of Mark’s musical influences and the time when he lived in Newcastle and Leeds."And the hopscotch traces, well you can still see them here": Here, Mark reflects on the fleeting nature of time and memory. The mention of "hopscotch traces" evokes a sense of nostalgia and childhood innocence, suggesting that even as time passes, the memories of his previous relationship remain etched in his mind."The chalk lines faded and unclear / Time for me to disappear": This line encapsulates the passage of time and the inevitability of change. The fading chalk lines symbolise the ephemeral nature of their relationship, while Mark’s decision to "disappear" represents his acceptance of the need to move forward with his life."Put my old boots back on, whatever": This final line reflects Mark readiness to embrace the next chapter of his life, moving forward with determination and resolve.
A bit of history mostly taken from the Unauthorised Biography of Mark Knopfler written by Myles Palmer in 1991.
(Disclaimer: it is plausible but unverified)
Kathleen (Kathy) Urwin White was Mark’s university sweetheart. They were a couple at least since 1970 and married on the 4th of March 1972, while he was still a student. Kathy had just started teaching in a school. They lived together in Leeds until 1974. Mark dreamed about becoming a successful song writer and guitar player. He joined a band called Brewer’s Droop in mid 1973 and went touring across the UK (possibly also abroad) with them while he was a part-time teacher in Leeds.
In the song “Matchstick Man” published in 2018, Mark Knopfler recalls hitching his way back hom) alone on a very white Christmas Day (1973), the morning after a gig in Penzance with a disbanding band (the Brewery’s Droop) he would leave shortly after, as they wanted to stop touring and didn’t want to play his songs. Although Mark loved Kathy the relationship was not working as Mark felt compelled to write songs for a living and move to London while Kathy wanted to stay up north near her family who owned a farm near Newcastle in Northumberland. In 1974, Mark found a new teaching role and temporarily moved to London hoping to get his breakthrough in the music industry. He had been wanting to do so at least since 1970 as Dave Johnson recalled in an interview for the BBC radio, 8 years ago when he commented on the recording of Mark’s first song ‘Summer’s coming my way’.
In 1974 in London Mark would spend his evenings practicing with his guitar and playing gigs for very little moneys, while working as a teacher. Mark often went back to Leeds to see Kathy trying to persuade her to move south. In the summer 1974, Mark and Kathy were still together but the relationship was very strained. Kathy’s brother George recalled the time when they watched the 1974 World Cup together. It is probably between 1974 and 1975 that Mark wrote the songs ‘Southbound again’, ‘Setting me up’ and ‘Six blade knife’ where he alludes at a potential man in the life of his beloved one. It was in that year that Mark decided to go to the US for the first time. He asked Kathy to go with him but she refused. Over time, Mark felt even more compelled to put a band together to record his songs. 1975 was the year when his marriage to Kathy formally ended. He moved into a mixed flat in London where he started a close friendship with a lady called Letitia Walker-Cale who recalled that Mark was just in transit and was in a bad place emotionally still hurting from his divorce. At that time Mark was playing gigs with the band Cafe’ Racers.
Post by: Matchstickman on May 07, 2024, 07:02:27 PM
I must say that this song has grown on me considerably. I now consider it one of the best on the album. The melody of the very first line is so odd, and the song so slow and moody, that I was probably put off by that at first. But it is interesting lyrically, and fitting musically.
The chorus is great, and while the back-up singers sound a bit thin, they form a nice contrast to Mark's voice, and overall that sort of backing feels unusual on an MK album.