On The Night - Ridiculously Bad???

[Robson]

Does this topic also apply to the A Night In London and Real Live Roadrunning concert? 

I think, yes. Recently, I transcribed Mark's solo in "Romeo And Juliet" from Real Live Roadruning, and in one moment I am positive it's impossible to play with the position of Mark's hand, and naturally, he's framed from behind. Never trust your eyes, only trust your ears! If it sounds good, then it's good. And live album is never live, it's a ZOMBIE!

I sense irony

[jbaent]

I just finished an analysis where I went into other songs besides CE, I found out once again the origin of each OTN song and in fact it is as I had found out a few years ago:

1-Calling Elvis
2-Walk of life
3-Heavy fuel
4-Romeo and Juliet
5-The bug
6-Private investigations
7-Your latest trick
8-On every street
9-You and your friend
10-Money for nothing
11-Brothers in arms
12-Solid rock
13-Wild theme

Les Arenes, Nimes FRA 20.05.92 [3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8]
Les Arenes, Nimes FRA 21.05.92 [1]
Feyenoord, Rotterdam HOL 30.05.92 [,2,13]
Feyenoord, Rotterdam HOL 31.05.92 [9, 10, 11, 12]

I listened song by song from these respective shows above, the exception is some subtleties, small nuances in CE which was actually in Les Arenes, Nimes FRA 21.05.92, the difference is that line of Mark greeting the audience with, "hey, alright! !!", Something they took from somewhere and put in the OTN edition, in no recording of these Bootleg there is this line at the beginning of CE or in another song, even in CE, the duet of drums and percussion is different in the bootleg,( so, the origin of this percussion and drums duet is still a mystery) there are also some guitar passages that precede the moment of this duet that were cut in the OTN edition. The track You Lastet Trick was actually recorded in Les Arenes, Nimes FRA 20.05.92, along with tracks 3, 4, 5, 6, and 8, however, there are some sounds in the intro with the percussion in the bootleg recording that differ a bit of what ended up on OTN, the vocal interpretation is the same, the guitar I'm still not sure, there seems to be something strange that needs more analysis, (whoever is willing to listen to the version of You Lastet Trick on the bootleg, Nimes FRA 20.05. 92, and analyzing with me, will be excellent, I noticed sounds a little different in the introduction of percussion and drums, as I mentioned.) It's interesting to see what was left out of OTN in MFN in Feyenoord, Rotterdam HOL 31.05. Mark probably doesn't think it's necessary to put that joke that the band always made in the intro, it's a shame it didn't pass, and also the end with Chris's little drum solo.

Funny the order here 8-On every street
9-You and your friend, when OES is after YAYFA in the Feyenoord bootleg, Rotterdam HOL 31.05.92, as OES from OTN was in Nimes FRA 20.05.92, they chose to leave it like this, I would have left it: Your latest trick, You and your friend, On every street and Money for nothing, (remembering that between OES and MFN there are Two Young Lovers and Telegraph Road).

There is a short speech by Mark before starting YAYF that was omitted from OTN.

Your research is extensive and commendable, and I hate to throw a spanner in the works, but didn't they also record audio from the Paris shows in April if they needed it for dubbing?

But they didn't use it as Paris recordings were damaged by technical issues.

[Rolo]

Does this topic also apply to the A Night In London and Real Live Roadrunning concert? 

I think, yes. Recently, I transcribed Mark's solo in "Romeo And Juliet" from Real Live Roadruning, and in one moment I am positive it's impossible to play with the position of Mark's hand, and naturally, he's framed from behind. Never trust your eyes, only trust your ears! If it sounds good, then it's good. And live album is never live, it's a ZOMBIE!

Same thing happens during the firsts licks during Calling Elvis on OTN. The band was filmed from behind.
During the 'Hey Alright' at the beginning of the concert, the frame is 100 meters awat from the band.

I didn't find the 20.05.92 concert to check out the lick.

I believe that Real Live Roadrunning have no overbubs. Some mistaked are on the record (like the wrong notes at Right Now).
I don't know how many nights were recorded.

For 'A Night In London', I believe that was Richard Bennet that mention that some songs were been played 4 times at the same evening. Even that they keeped that big mistake that Glenn Worf made on R&J. He mistaken the chord sequence during the chorus or something i guess.

I opened a concert for a 'DVD Recording' of a band.
The 'concert' had almost 6 or 7 hours.
Same thing happens

[Eddie Fox]

Its an interesting analysis Bruno. I Still think given the cumbersome nature of editing these shows (no Daws in 1990!) and the actual comments from Guy that these edits are far more likely 'flown in' from other sources. Lots of those shows were recorded and just thrown in archive, plus I wouldn't mind betting that even the sound checks were recorded!

I have 2 questions for you.

Given the way OTN was spliced together can we really regard it as a genuine live album? It seems to me to be in a class of its own as I can find few bands that took this approach (Rush is the only other example I could find).

And

Given that Guy himself has clearly said no studio overdubs, what evidence would it take for you to change your opinion?

As an afterthought, at least we can agree that OTN was innovative in its approach!

Not to mention matching the tone from a big arena in a studio, which is virtually impossible - before DAWs even existed as you pointed out. Just think of the variables… Mark himself said he never managed to get that MFN exact same tone, with the same rig and in the same studio! Hard to explain that, you gotta experience that to understand.

Do you remember the early digital recorders Eddie? 24 character ascii display, your window into the digital world!

Makes me cringe thinking about working with those things, and also (regardless of what you think of OTN) makes Guys actual work on the project all the more commendable.

My first studio work was recorded on tape, eight channels for a four-piece band plus vocals… that was a nightmare. I can’t really remember how was the mixing process but I think it was mastered digitally. It was 2001 if I’m not mistaken. Man, recording has come a long way.

[2manyguitars]

Its an interesting analysis Bruno. I Still think given the cumbersome nature of editing these shows (no Daws in 1990!) and the actual comments from Guy that these edits are far more likely 'flown in' from other sources. Lots of those shows were recorded and just thrown in archive, plus I wouldn't mind betting that even the sound checks were recorded!

I have 2 questions for you.

Given the way OTN was spliced together can we really regard it as a genuine live album? It seems to me to be in a class of its own as I can find few bands that took this approach (Rush is the only other example I could find).

And

Given that Guy himself has clearly said no studio overdubs, what evidence would it take for you to change your opinion?

As an afterthought, at least we can agree that OTN was innovative in its approach!

Not to mention matching the tone from a big arena in a studio, which is virtually impossible - before DAWs even existed as you pointed out. Just think of the variables… Mark himself said he never managed to get that MFN exact same tone, with the same rig and in the same studio! Hard to explain that, you gotta experience that to understand.

Do you remember the early digital recorders Eddie? 24 character ascii display, your window into the digital world!

Makes me cringe thinking about working with those things, and also (regardless of what you think of OTN) makes Guys actual work on the project all the more commendable.

My first studio work was recorded on tape, eight channels for a four-piece band plus vocals… that was a nightmare. I can’t really remember how was the mixing process but I think it was mastered digitally. It was 2001 if I’m not mistaken. Man, recording has come a long way.

Tape, now thats another beast completely and another medium that producers working with deserve more praise than they ever get. I mean imagine the skill required for precise edits, and Of course nerves of steel!

We've got it easy these days.

Definitely not non destructive editing.....

[ds1984]

What technical problem occured for Paris 1992 ?

[jbaent]

What technical problem occured for Paris 1992 ?

Cant remember, I read it long ago, that something happened with those tapes and they were not able to use them.

[Rolo]

Maybe my interpretation is wrong.
But, Robben is overdubbing a Live album?


https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrltzfqpcnV/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[Eddie Fox]

You can overdub a live album if you want, especially nowadays with all these crazy technologies that are available for everyone. What you cannot do is, for example, leave some live guitar licks in and replace others with studio overdubs. You either delete what you don’t like and leave it as is or throw away the entire thing (guitar track in this case) and record it all over again. It’s virtually impossible to get the same tone, it would be pretty noticeable if you use both recordings pretending to be the same guitar work.

[Rolo]

You can overdub a live album if you want, especially nowadays with all these crazy technologies that are available for everyone. What you cannot do is, for example, leave some live guitar licks in and replace others with studio overdubs. You either delete what you don’t like and leave it as is or throw away the entire thing (guitar track in this case) and record it all over again. It’s virtually impossible to get the same tone, it would be pretty noticeable if you use both recordings pretending to be the same guitar work.

Are you sure about it?

[Eddie Fox]

Yes, unless some new technology has been released over the last 24 hours lol

[Rolo]

Yes, unless some new technology has been released over the last 24 hours lol

 

[JF]

Here is my chronicle :

https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/il-y-a-30-ans-sortait-le-live-on-the-night-de-dire-straits/

nothing new for you, but I put a link to this discussion 

[Robson]

Here is my chronicle :

https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/il-y-a-30-ans-sortait-le-live-on-the-night-de-dire-straits/

nothing new for you, but I put a link to this discussion 

 

Hard to believe. It's been 30 years.

[dustyvalentino]

Here is my chronicle :

https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/il-y-a-30-ans-sortait-le-live-on-the-night-de-dire-straits/

nothing new for you, but I put a link to this discussion 

I really enjoyed it, merci!