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Author Topic: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"  (Read 16094 times)

Offline3Strats

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #75 on: December 24, 2021, 10:33:19 AM »
Surely this is just another case of a band working together in the arrangement of a song. I'm sure that Guy has said that they were considering dropping MFN from the album, then he (Guy) came up with the synth stabs that changed the song, but he doesn't claim any more than that. It does seem a bit like sour grapes on Alan's part. Yes, he may have had the idea for the intro, but that's all ( and that idea that cost Mark money because he eventually had to credit Sting as joint composer). The composer is the person who comes up with the words & the musical core of the song. Even though Mark was very definite about what he wanted in Dire Straits, I'm sure there were suggestions or contributions from most band members when a song was being worked up, as with other bands, but it's comparatively rare that the whole band get a composition credit.
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Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #76 on: December 24, 2021, 12:50:01 PM »
It is true that the way Alan says he contributed to this or that is most of the times not the best way.

It is also true that lot of people seems to be paid for the MK army and are patiently waiting for someone to say any little thing that seems like offending his Knopfler religion and shot them to death.

I found it as ridiculous or even more than the way Alan says he contributed to this or that because at least, Alan is only telling what he did, the others are defending someone who doesn't need it in a quite fanatical way.

Hey jbaent, it's only me or you seems to be quite grumpy these days? Nobody's here defending anyone, I think over the years Alan has built himself a certain reputation apart from his obvious musical talents by saying things and doing things, so any discussion about him naturally collect some negativity. He's slowly but surely tries to battle this negativity, just released a new solo album. I hope for some new good news from him.

OfflineEddie Fox

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #77 on: December 24, 2021, 01:12:35 PM »
Alan is just a kid begging for attention
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Offlineds1984

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #78 on: December 24, 2021, 01:59:04 PM »
Amen.
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Offlineds1984

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #79 on: December 24, 2021, 02:06:30 PM »
Before deciding if Alan actually wrote the intro of MNF, the case of who of Dave or Ray is responsible for the distorded sound on the riff of You Really Got Me has yet to be cleared.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2021, 02:25:50 PM by ds1984 »
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OfflineJF

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #80 on: December 24, 2021, 02:58:09 PM »
Before deciding if Alan actually wrote the intro of MNF, the case of who of Dave or Ray is responsible for the distorded sound on the riff of You Really Got Me has yet to be cleared.

 :lol :thumbsup

Offlinejbaent

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #81 on: December 24, 2021, 02:59:42 PM »
Before deciding if Alan actually wrote the intro of MNF, the case of who of Dave or Ray is responsible for the distorded sound on the riff of You Really Got Me has yet to be cleared.

What amazes me the most is when people invent things. Where Alan says he wrote MFN? All I read is that he came with the idea of the MTV intro, not that he wrote the song.

Lies are lies despite how much you like or not a person.
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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #82 on: December 24, 2021, 03:01:33 PM »
Before deciding if Alan actually wrote the intro of MNF, the case of who of Dave or Ray is responsible for the distorded sound on the riff of You Really Got Me has yet to be cleared.

What amazes me the most is when people invent things. Where Alan says he wrote MFN? All I read is that he came with the idea of the MTV intro, not that he wrote the song.

Lies are lies despite how much you like or not a person.
ds1984 said intro, not the song?
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Offlinermarques821

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #83 on: December 24, 2021, 03:34:33 PM »
Alan is just a kid begging for attention
Yep, this. Like I said before, the guy is an outstanding keyboard player, very creative, and has produced great melodies over the years. But it's just so childish to come out every interview blaming credits for himself. He isn't even a 20-something coming up in the music business. He'll be 70 next year and behaves like a 6 year old who hasn't received the latest toy for Christmas.

This has nothing to do with defending MK, like someone above said.

OfflineJF

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #84 on: December 24, 2021, 03:40:19 PM »
This whole thing about who needs to be credited for a song is obviously complex and cannot be summed in few lines.

I am currently working on an article about this subject  :P

Some thoughts :


1) Several bands have credited all members on several songs : Pink Floyd on Echoes for example, The doors on their first album, Genesis on their first albums, Yes, Led Zeppelin, etc… so it’s not that rare.

2) I think the point is :

- if the part « composed » by the musician is « important » in the song, then he have to be credited, even if he’s just a studio session musician
- If the part add just a little to the song, then he doesn't have to be credited.

In other words :
would the song sound the same without this part ? and more : would the song had the same success without this part ? would the song be famous in the same way without the part ?
If the answer is yes, then no need to credit the musician, but if the answer is no… then it’s fair to credit him imho

3) Examples :

- 90% of Money for nothing are lyrics, guitar riff, and song structure by MK. Even if the intro is Alan’s idea, it doesnt’ add the « main thing » of the song so to say. It is sureley a nice idea, and yes it adds to the song, but obvioulsy, without this intro, MFN would be a great song though (ok it’s subjectrive, but I guess we all agree about this)

- That’s a different thing with Telegraph road : imagine the song without piano parts... the song would lack his main atmophere and mood. All melodies, chords, harmonies, here and there are not only just « ideas  added » to the song, there are mainly the most part of the song. So in this case, I think (it‘s just my opinion), that music could been credited by MK and « arranged by AC » or something like that.

By the way that’s a term that is widely used for other artists, and I think it’s fair for all contributers : composed by… and arranged by…
AC has been credited for strings arrangements on ticket to heaven, like Guy on other songs in Mark’s solo career. So he could also have been credited for arrangement in TR

- Another obvious example : Walk of life. I don’t know whether the keyboard line is from guy, Alan or Mark. But , if it’s not from Mark, it’s not fair to not have credited the musician (Guy or Alan), because obvioulsy that keyboard part is why the song became famous and was a hit. People know this song more for this keyboard line, than for the verses melody or lyrics. So in this case, the « idea » brought by the musician is a part of the composition imho. While the bass line, the drums break or whatever are not that « important ».

- Money is credited to Waters. He wrote THAT iconic riff, the melody, the chords progression and the lyrics. But imho it would be fair that Gilmour should be credited for « arrangements ». If the drums would have been played by another drummer, the song whouldn't have sounded that different, but if the guitar would been played by another guitarist… well you know what I mean.

- Last example : we all know that Terry Williams’ parts on the BIA album have been re-recorded by Omar Hakim. Does it have « changed » the songs ? in term of sound of course yes, but in term on « notoriety » or « success » I don’t think so. That’s why, Omar Hakim can’t claim to be credited because, even if his playing is excellent, it doesn’t add something « noticeable » for the large audience.



That’s how I see the things : Imagine the song without the parts in question, or played by other musicians. Would the song be « the same », or almost « close ».
Depending on the answer, then should be deciding on crediting the musician or not.

just my two cents  :)
« Last Edit: December 24, 2021, 03:46:00 PM by JF »

Offlinejbaent

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #85 on: December 24, 2021, 03:44:55 PM »

Hey jbaent, it's only me or you seems to be quite grumpy these days? Nobody's here defending anyone, I think over the years Alan has built himself a certain reputation apart from his obvious musical talents by saying things and doing things, so any discussion about him naturally collect some negativity. He's slowly but surely tries to battle this negativity, just released a new solo album. I hope for some new good news from him.

It might be that I'm feeling a bit Scottish these days.

Lol
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Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #86 on: December 24, 2021, 03:46:38 PM »
Alan said MK wrote the Walk of Life keyboard part.
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OfflineJF

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #87 on: December 24, 2021, 03:47:34 PM »
Alan said MK wrote the Walk of Life keyboard part.

thanks  :thumbsup :)

OfflineJF

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #88 on: December 24, 2021, 03:48:35 PM »
Alan said MK wrote the Walk of Life keyboard part.

similar example : Baker street

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Street_(song)

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Alan Clark: "We'd love a DS reunion but Mark Knopfler is busy"
« Reply #89 on: December 24, 2021, 03:58:31 PM »
To me that's all ridiculous... If you're a band, like The Doors or Queen, then credits go to all. If you're a band just because frontman is too shy to go with his name that's another story. And if you have multiple frontmen, then... Good luck :lol

Imagine if there was a law that if you form a band, then all the band members get a songwriting credit. Mark certainly would be a solo artist from the beginning :lol

Take "Light My Fire". Everybody knows Robby Krieger wrote the song. But Jim Morrison wrote the additional verse, John Densmore came up with the latin rhythm and Ray Manzarek came up with the iconic rhythm, chords and solo ideas.

Who gets the credit? All four! Because... a band.

 

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