A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: scupperman on June 11, 2010, 11:48:25 PM
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OK, I almost hate to post this but...... after hearing Heavy Fuel today on WXRT, the Chicago based FM station that plays MK / DS, the DJ, Terri Hemmert, announced that there were rumors about a DS reunion. I found that hard to believe given MK's condition on the current tour and given the recent comments about this. Couldn't find anything else on the net, anyone else out there hearing this?
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Forget it. Mark won't do it. He has said that so many times..
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It does not make sense.
DS is not only dead - it actually never existed. It was a vehicle to play Mark Knopfler's songs, period. Which is exactly what MK's band is today, except that this is more frank, and have the advantage of not creating huge expectations in terms of touring scale and "soft rock" style of music. Nothing more than a marketing label. On the documentary on the Alchemy DVD, MK is asked (1980) if this is really a group, as he is the main writer, singer, and performer. He answers that it is all about the band and being together; might be true, but this is also true of his current band...
The only thing you don't have anymore is the name - who cares about the name ??
I am amazed the impact a simple label can have on people. in 1987 Roger Water's tour was completely destroyed by Gilmour's Pink Floyd touring. Because everybody new the Pink Floyd name, and nobody but the die-hard fans had ever heard or Roger Waters. In fact, they were seing the band as an entity by itself, not the people the band was made of, and the vast majority of them didn't even know that the soul of Pink Floyd was gone. Gilmour said that he spent 20 years building the Pink Floyd name, not his own. That is true, but that is scary.
Hence the ridiculous stickers they had to put on the solo CDs: "the voice and guitar of Dire Straits", "The voice and guitar of Pink Floyd", "the soul of Pink Floyd", etc.
A Pink Floyd reunion made sense beause to build PF you need BOTH Gilmour and Waters; but MK has everything in himself that Dire Straits had; because the other musicians, although world-class, are disposable items, not unique; John Illsley is a fantatisc bass player, but so is Glenn Worlf; Same with Alan Clark and Matt Rollins. In fact, the band is more stable know than in DS times...
Come on !! Move on !! It will not happen anyway. Everything DS would have to offer today, you already have it in the MK shows.
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We could ask Guy about it! ::)
LE
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There are a lot or rumors. But it will be, I'm sure. 2010 or 2011
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Huh?
Are you sure you have the right year? 2010 is almost over again...
I will not hope so. That would be so disappointing if MK went this way of just another "Reunion" band.... Maybe Dire Straits play the opening act at the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games in London...
LE
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if it happens, and my little toe also feels it happening, it will be a charity thing only people, let's not forget that...
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if it happens, and my little toe also feels it happening, it will be a charity thing only people, let's not forget that...
yes.
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if it happens, and my little toe also feels it happening, it will be a charity thing only people, let's not forget that...
And, other than having John i/o Glenn and Alan i/o Matt, maybe Phil i/o Richard, and maybe Chris White, and Paul Franklin, and a change of name, what can we expect of it ? maybe time to revived old songs ? The Man's Too Strong, Setting me Up, On Every Street (these were rehearsed lately), and let's dream, a pretext to revive TOL ? WDYTYG ? YLT ?
I vaguely heard about a special edition of Brothers in Arms, how more special would it be than the 2005 SA/CD 5.1 edition ? A blu-ray audio only version maybe ?
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Btw - it seems to be that after DS Mark kept good relationships with everybody... but Alan Clark.
Why do I say that ?
Mark and John were seen together recently, John recorded his album at Mark's studio. I assume they are still best friends.
Phil Palmer played with Mark in the concert for Montserrat in 1997.
Chris White played with Mark in 2002 and on the KTGC album.
Paul Frankling is a "honorary 96er".
Guy is... the only band member that has been there longer than MK, as the lame joke says :)
Danny is already there.
Chris Witten... not too sure (but I'd rather have Terry Williams !).
But Alan, after DS, only replaced Guy once in 1993 for the NHB; after that, no public appearance with Mark; heard some rumours that Mark would'nt want to play with Alan again but he would not be good enough !! although I find it hard to believe. Any clue ?
Relationships is key, to reform an band, and already in 1986 there were rumours that the band members coul't stand each other anymore and were travelling on separate limos... any truth ? while the current band more looks like a bunch of friends !
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and john was at fridays' show in the RAH, and Chris at thursdays'
and let us not mnention that other founder of the Dire straits here shall we... ;D
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and john was at fridays' show in the RAH, and Chris at thursdays'
and let us not mnention that other founder of the Dire straits here shall we... ;D
If you are refering to a possible reunion of the Knopfler brothers, I'm all for it...
When I think that I took 20 years to Gilmour and Waters to admit that they had been childish... scary... one year later Rick Wright was dead... this is what happen when you waste too much time to move on and forgive...
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DS is not only dead - it actually never existed. It was a vehicle to play Mark Knopfler's songs, period. Which is exactly what MK's band is today, except that this is more frank, and have the advantage of not creating huge expectations in terms of touring scale and "soft rock" style of music. Nothing more than a marketing label.
Disagree, DS was really a band.
At that time Mark was not the boss he is now.
He needed a manager and was not confident enough in himself to act as a solo artist. Dire Straits was an entity.
On the documentary on the Alchemy DVD, MK is asked (1980) if this is really a group, as he is the main writer, singer, and performer. He answers that it is all about the band and being together; might be true, but this is also true of his current band...
The only thing you don't have anymore is the name - who cares about the name ??
DS was not only a name, it was a sound
I am amazed the impact a simple label can have on people. in 1987 Roger Water's tour was completely destroyed by Gilmour's Pink Floyd touring. Because everybody new the Pink Floyd name, and nobody but the die-hard fans had ever heard or Roger Waters.
I am laughing out loud. Because this is Roger Waters that destroyed himself and I litterally pissed my pants when I heard that Roger was touring DSOTM after he mocked PF performing it in 1994. Roger does not know how to write good arrangements and if his solo efforts failed this is because he had no David Gilmour to help him. Even worse he had the number one guitarist on his album and tour but Eric was so constrained that he prefered to leave fololowed by part of the band during a break in the US leg.
Roger is a man for concept but not really for music. Don't get me wrong I attended both Roger and David solo tours, they do both great show but the most genuine one is not necessarily the one you may think he is.
but MK has everything in himself that Dire Straits had; because the other musicians, although world-class, are disposable items, not unique; John Illsley is a fantatisc bass player, but so is Glenn Worlf; Same with Alan Clark and Matt Rollins.
THE POINT : the way that John and Alan did sound made that this core trio was the DS sound of the 80's. John is not a fantastic bass player, he is technically very limited, has not a big variety in his playing but he has something that is the most important thing : he has a solid style. Glenn maybe 1 000 times better than him, SOS will never sound the same without John on it. Period
Come on !! Move on !! It will not happen anyway.
Mark could surprise us with a reunion for a one off charity events - who know, the right person at the right moment to ask him. But I agree that as a recording and touring band, DS is dead.
Everything DS would have to offer today, you already have it in the MK shows.
No - you can't imagine how much I miss DS.
MK in solo is another story.
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Btw - it seems to be that after DS Mark kept good relationships with everybody... but Alan Clark.
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But Alan, after DS, only replaced Guy once in 1993 for the NHB; after that, no public appearance with Mark; heard some rumours that Mark would'nt want to play with Alan again but he would not be good enough !! although I find it hard to believe. Any clue ?
Relationships is key, to reform an band, and already in 1986 there were rumours that the band members coul't stand each other anymore and were travelling on separate limos... any truth ? while the current band more looks like a bunch of friends !
Partly wrong, Mark did perform once with Alan "Wild Theme" a few years ago (let say within the last 5 - or 10- years) in Newcastle. And they also did a masterclass in the US but this is older.
Alan in an interview says that the music that Mark plays now is not his cup of tea. Already at the time of OES, Alan did show some sign of dissatisfaction as he does not stick that much with country music style.
What surprise me is that Alan and Guy seemed to be good surfing friends but they finally lost touch.
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Dire Straits died in 1980 or something. As a band and a sound. Since then, it's been MK solo with different session musicians and good bye funky rock and roll. Forget everything about a reunion. It will never happen.
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According to Guy, Mark was much more of a "tyran" during DS times than now; he said he welcomes much more the band input now then before. Guy said litterally, talking about DS: "he had full control over the band".
Hard to imagine DS as en entity while there was so much turnover ! they only ones who stayed from beginning to end were Mark and John...
Everybody says Roger is an asshole. To me, he is a musical genius. The name "Pink Floyd" would mean *nothing* today, had Roger not been there. And he is not that bad a guy. He had a point. Dave had not composed a song in 5 years. Roger is abrupt, but honnest. He said he could not pretend to be socialist anymore once he became rich. He acknowledged he had been fullish and negative with Dave. He spat on an idiot fan 33 years ago, what's the big deal ? he did not kill anybody... Yes he has his faults, he uses playback tapes and stuff, but I still love him (And I love Dave too, their shows are different but equally good). I can agree with you that it is strange that he would go again and played in stadiums after saying -like Mark- that stadium rock was unappropriate, especially for "The Wall".
Yes, he could never replace Dave, because Dave has a unique sound. I'm not convinced JI has a unique sound that Mark cannot replace...
Mark is Roger and Dave in one person: Dave's guitar skills, and Roger's song writer skills :)
I still dont' know what John and Alan would have that is so special that Mark cannot recreate their sound with other musicians. Anyway, interesting discussion, I respect your opinions :)
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Partly wrong, Mark did perform once with Alan "Wild Theme" a few years ago (let say within the last 5 - or 10- years) in Newcastle. And they also did a masterclass in the US but this is older.
Alan in an interview says that the music that Mark plays now is not his cup of tea. Already at the time of OES, Alan did show some sign of dissatisfaction as he does not stick that much with country music style.
What surprise me is that Alan and Guy seemed to be good surfing friends but they finally lost touch.
Thanks for this very interesting info, I did not know that ! So what's Alan cup of tea music ? pure rock'and roll ? It's true I really like him in the fast piano solos, TR and TOL, he was great. But I'm sure Matt could do the same...
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roger may have realised that he is not a socialist anymore due to his gazillions of millions, but Dave keeps donating millions, without being a millionaire.
i prefer Dave by far, roger is a great arranger/director of music, but the real musical genius to me is Dave.
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Don't get me wrong, I love Dave too, I'm adicted to his lovely "Live in Gdansk". He is a fantastic musician and person.
I just say I hate to choose. Both were necessary for Pink Floyd to work.
Dave was the sound.
But Roger was the soul.
Without Roger, no DSOTM. no Animals. no The Wall.
The man derserves respect. Really.
One of the best moments in musical history was the (brief, alas) PF reunion for Live 8. I have this on DVD. Gorgeous.
One of my fantasises would be to see Mark and Dave play each other's songs on guitar and tease each other on stage.
And Mark and Roger co-writing songs.
Love them all... in the imperfections. They are unperfect human beings. That's make them so great.
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According to Guy, Mark was much more of a "tyran" during DS times than now; he said he welcomes much more the band input now then before. Guy said litterally, talking about DS: "he had full control over the band".
Hard to imagine DS as en entity while there was so much turnover ! they only ones who stayed from beginning to end were Mark and John...
For me in the band history there are 2 area : before and after 1980
Before 1980, DS was a success band like it could have been for many others, doing a few good albums before becoming quite repetitive.
But hen came MM : turning point, change of style and start of the great waltz of musicians. But when you listen to the 1980 tour you hear that Alan contribution is everywhere. And it is easy to guess that he contributed to some arrangments but got no credit for them. This core trio is what made DS so special to me.
I still dont' know what John and Alan would have that is so special that Mark cannot recreate their sound with other musicians. Anyway, interesting discussion, I respect your opinions :)
They have a personal style - simple as this. That does not imply that no one else can take the seat and have good result but just that they produce something unique that nobody else can replicate. I got the revelation in 2002, the second John was on stage and that I heard that "doum doum doum" sound again - nobody else sound like that, yet very basic, but fucking effective.
Just that Mark needed something else that these musicians could not give him. Finding the right musicians he needed had not been a simple task so this is the other side of why DS disbanded. Mark needed some Tony Levin skilled musicians and John is everything but a Tony Levin.
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As they say don't shoot the messenger.
I've never been one to really pine for a DS reunion, I just think it's too hard to recreate the essence or even harder to pick up and create something new. But would I go see them? I don't think there's anybody on this forum who wouldn't, even those of us who say "move on", I've moved on but I'm not crazy.
It's odd this rumor hasn't been picked elsewhere, this DJ and station are very reliable and I don't think she would have said it without a good source.
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According to Guy, Mark was much more of a "tyran" during DS times than now; he said he welcomes much more the band input now then before. Guy said litterally, talking about DS: "he had full control over the band".
Hard to imagine DS as en entity while there was so much turnover ! they only ones who stayed from beginning to end were Mark and John...
For me in the band history there are 2 area : before and after 1980
Before 1980, DS was a success band like it could have been for many others, doing a few good albums before becoming quite repetitive.
But hen came MM : turning point, change of style and start of the great waltz of musicians. But when you listen to the 1980 tour you hear that Alan contribution is everywhere. And it is easy to guess that he contributed to some arrangments but got no credit for them. This core trio is what made DS so special to me.
I still dont' know what John and Alan would have that is so special that Mark cannot recreate their sound with other musicians. Anyway, interesting discussion, I respect your opinions :)
They have a personal style - simple as this. That does not imply that no one else can take the seat and have good result but just that they produce something unique that nobody else can replicate. I got the revelation in 2002, the second John was on stage and that I heard that "doum doum doum" sound again - nobody else sound like that, yet very basic, but fucking effective.
Just that Mark needed something else that these musicians could not give him. Finding the right musicians he needed had not been a simple task so this is the other side of why DS disbanded. Mark needed some Tony Levin skilled musicians and John is everything but a Tony Levin.
Very vell put! Sums it all up :)
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It will never happen.
And yes, Alan played Wild Theme with MK at the launch of Alan Shearer's bar in Newcastle if memory serves, also here :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKi3haeinJA&feature=channel
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and john was at fridays' show in the RAH, and Chris at thursdays'
and let us not mnention that other founder of the Dire straits here shall we... ;D
So you're indicating that David Knopfler was at one of the RAH shows? Maybe he was to be seen within the fanclub presale queue waiting for his ticket pick-up.
;D ;D ;D
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Everything DS would have to offer today, you already have it in the MK shows.
'nuff said.
I tend to listen to both - DS and MK flying solo - a lot. Sometimes I do prefer the very early and raw stuff from 1978-1979 for some days and then I crawl through his works until Get Lucky is playing, guess it depends a lot on my mood. Somehow it never gets boring as there is so much variety and development when listening to his catalogue.
MK does six shows at the RAH for charities anyway, so there's no need to dig the old brand name out again?
Now I'm wondering if there'll be some charity shows in 2011, after the recording of the follow-up to Get Lucky? Wouldn't that be great, he could do another six nights at the RAH out of sequence?! ;D
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no justme, i said that in relation to an earlier post.
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Yes, I was only kidding. ;)
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yaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnn :-\
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I must confess that after reading Guy entry about the Bercy gig where he was refering to the DS days playing there I did make the strange dream that Mark choosed this venue to establish a very special DS reunion residency :P
Then I woke up and had to go to work...
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I hope there will be no reunion. A few years ago my favorite 80's band (it starts with "po" & ends with "lice") finished their reunion tour in NYC, & successfully turned it into a CABARET. I lost all remaining respect to the members of that band (that said, Andy is a very good fotographer :).
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For me in the band history there are 2 area : before and after 1980
Before 1980, DS was a success band like it could have been for many others, doing a few good albums before becoming quite repetitive.
But hen came MM : turning point, change of style and start of the great waltz of musicians. But when you listen to the 1980 tour you hear that Alan contribution is everywhere. And it is easy to guess that he contributed to some arrangments but got no credit for them. This core trio is what made DS so special to me.
Actually Communiqu
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Hm. I always thought that Mark did not so much judge the songs by the pure quality but more by the way he remembered the circumstances in that they were written. Also some other associations with the time and surroundings might be relevant. F.e. I think Heavy Fuel stands for a certain time in his life. Private Investigations f.e. might be a favourite of JI and therefore be played on every gig. Now those times are gone and MK remembers other moments.
Cannibals is for sure not one of his best compositions, but maybe he remembers the childhood of his kids, his Dad and so on. And everything that was related with the "hard times" with David and the stressful first years is maybe not something he still likes to think of. Only the real "gems" like TR, BIA and SFA are played because they are important for the people as he said in several interviews - including the "twiddely bits"...
LE
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Hm. I always thought that Mark did not so much judge the songs by the pure quality but more by the way he remembered the circumstances in that they were written. Also some other associations with the time and surroundings might be relevant. F.e. I think Heavy Fuel stands for a certain time in his life. Private Investigations f.e. might be a favourite of JI end therefore be played on every gig. Now those times are gone and MK remembers other moments.
Cannibals is for sure not one of his best compositions, but maybe he remembers the childhood of his kids, his Dad and so on. And everything that was related with the "hard times" with David and the stressful first years is maybe not something he still likes to think of. Only the real "gems" like TR, BIA and SFA are played because they are important for the people as he said in several interviews - including the "twiddely bits"...
LE
100% agree. That's certainly one of the reasons we don' get TOL any more although it is about Mark's happy childhood (the other being that it is a physically demanding song - already in 91/92 he was not able to perform both TOL and TR in the same show)
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With Mark it is difficult to say for some song which part of his decision to perform it is for is own pleasure and which part is to please or entertain the public.
I think when he performs SOS live and the response he get from the audience is something that tend to keep it in the set as long as he does not feel bored to death with it or find another way to do it. In some extend part of his pleasure is to see all those happy faces listening his music.
But Mark dropping MFN tells that if he had genuine fun to play it over the past years, once he had lost it he does not play it anymore even beeing a crowd fave and albeit I think he is still very proud of the riff he found.
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100% agree. That's certainly one of the reasons we don' get TOL any more although it is about Mark's happy childhood (the other being that it is a physically demanding song - already in 91/92 he was not able to perform both TOL and TR in the same show)
Well TOL is probably the song that DS fans like me are the most missing. And he could play it instead of TR and I don't see it more physically demanding than TR - the shorter 13 minutes version from 86 was fab.
We have heard TR so many time that if dropped for that one it would be definitively be ok.
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Hum.
TR is such a fantastic prog rock song, such as symbol of DS' apogee, that I would be sad that it would be dropped.
On the guitar part TOL is probably not more difficult to play than TOL; on the vocals, though, TOL is very fast while TR is rather slow. I guess Mark feels he would be out of breath.
13 minutes is not short for TOL - Alchemy is 14, 91/92 as well (although the intro in shorter) :)
I want both TR and TOL !! Like in Alchemy ! :)
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Well I lke the abrupt intro from 86.
Can you imagine the blast effect of it if it would happen that way - I could to lose consciousness like a very sensible miss.
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Yes, me too :)
I love the 83 sax intro with Mel Collins; also love the 91/92 romantized version. Love them all, in fact. Would be happy with any style.... I guess today's more laid-back style would sounds a bit like the 1980 version on Alchemy bonus.
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I think TOL is more physically demanding both in terms of the vocals and the guitar part which is played all the way through on TOL and really quite gently on TR befor the solo's. Also for the main outro solo in TOL there are no real "escape roads" if MK gets tired or sore like there are on TR where he can "pull something out the bag" to cover it up so to speak. Already on the OES tour one could tell sometimes he was not playing the solo the way he wanted to so I doubt he could manage it every other night on tour these days. :(