A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: LoveExpresso on January 16, 2014, 09:13:46 PM
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I got the idea for this thread because during the last months there was much talk about how Mark deals with his old songs, his Dire Straits legacy, because of those cover-bands mainly. Many people accuse him that he doesn't give the right attention to this big song catalogue. Mark however has uttered more than once that he just does not want to play his old stuff anymore - partly because he think it is not good enough, partly because he is just not interested, partly because playing with his current band is too much fun and the stuff they recorded together is just the flavour of the month.
I think about what Mark might think every time I listen to his concerts and submerge into his music. And then I think, well, about his past and playing his old stuff, why should he?
I made the observation for example that Ianto is much better on the songs that he was playing on in the studio, whereas everything from Get Lucky and albums before seem not to be of much interest to him... (just listen to the awful 2013 versions of Piper To The End) and I can understand that... Imagine Mark thinking, god, what a real badass I was around 1990, I would better forget everything I did and said at that decade... just an example. So of course the songs from that time are in a certain light. Same with Communiqu
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You see, LE, this is the sort of thing that I missed when you were away! ;D
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Nice thread DOT. I think that you are going into a lot of depth there and maybe it is more simple. I mean, I can look at the past and know that there is a difference between then and now and looking back is only just that - looking. So for Mark to play an oldie would be just to play a song for a few minutes and that would be it. It might even be nostalgic. He could turn it round to make him think of nicer thoughts at the time if it reminded him of bad things because they can't all have been bad. At the end of the day it's just a song and I think he'll be more concentrated on remembering the words and the chords!
The real reason he doesn't play the old songs any more is because they're too up tempo compared to most of his solo albums (after STP) and he and his ageing band aren't as good at playing them as they used to be. That's why his albums are slow paced now.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the last tour and TR was much improved too but Sultans was a disaster for the most part. I would be very pleased to see him try some of the older, slower DS songs - that would be interesting and would fit with the current set and band.
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The things you describe could partially be some of MK's reasons that he doesn't play some of the old songs anymore. Though I think the main reason is exploration of the songs. Most of the songs of that time he has played over and over again. At a certain point you really can't hear them anymore... as in don't wanna hear them anymore, cause you have overplayed them are bored with them. The new songs are fresh and can be explored to be improved.
Besides that I think he also he keeps somekind of fans in mind who want to hear a different setlist each tour.
Anyway, why should he be only playing DS / Old Songs. He still plays songs of the old days.. but he also plays songs from his latest albums. Besides there is kind of formula. If you study the setlist closely you will notice he picks about 1 song from most of the albums he made. And picks 3 or 4 songs from his latest album, cause that are songs from the album he is promoting. It wouldn't make much sense calling it the Privateering Tour if he wouldn't play any songs of that album.
Sultans Of Swing, Romeo & Juliet, Telegraph Road and So Far Away are from his DS period.
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i agrree with guitarman, imagine the amount of times sultans was played? or brothers, or tunnel, or telegraph, at some point, everyone loses interest
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I can see the point you make Guitarman but R&J and SFA have been played so many times and they are probably the songs with the least amount of room for improvisation of all DS songs! It (R&J) also happens to be one where the guitar passage is nice and slow for him...
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for me so far away is one of the best songs ever. i know most of you dont like it, but for someone who can find himself in that song is priceless. And obviously mark likes that song too and thats why he still plays it.
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I can understand why he chooses not to play certain songs these days. Partly because he has written so many! But I also think that he doesn't feel comfortable with some of his old more personal songs. I get the feeling that he doesn't want to express himself like that anymore, perhaps because he is getting old?
I enjoy every era of his career, and I really feel we are lucky that he is so active these days and the music he's creating is great! With that said, I wouldn't mind hearing him play LoG with his nylon acoustic! I just think they could do a great version of it these days.
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for me so far away is one of the best songs ever. i know most of you dont like it, but for someone who can find himself in that song is priceless. And obviously mark likes that song too and thats why he still plays it.
I agree! I didn't think about it that much a few years ago, but somehow it just got to me and I'd say it's one of the best DS songs.
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I think mostly because Mark is a solo artist now, what's the points to dwell on those old DS songs.
That's why we have The Straits, DS legends and other tribute/cover bands play the old DS songs. Because Mark doesn't want to play them any more.
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And if i started to talk about so far away, here is IMO the best version in the last decade. In final solo Marks guitar sings like not many times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOiZmHYAt64
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for me so far away is one of the best songs ever. i know most of you dont like it, but for someone who can find himself in that song is priceless. And obviously mark likes that song too and thats why he still plays it.
fully agree. it is also the only song featuring the city they are playing in (most of the time) that fact alone makes me want for him to keep it,
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And if i started to talk about so far away, here is IMO the best version in the last decade. In final solo Marks guitar sings like not many times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOiZmHYAt64
I have a soft spot for SFA too, and I really love the Lucca 2013 version! So much energy, great licks! If you don't know it, xardas, give it a try!! :thumbsup
I remember 1996, how surprised I was to hear Water Of Love again, and boy, I loved that version. Nice new bass line, absolute cool summer night tune...
I also agree about overplayed songs, and really, I didn't miss Sultans that much last year... after listening to several versions, I chose the Milan 2013 the best one (for me) and lost somewhat interest in it after listening to worse ones after that.. I mean, how many live versions of Sultans can one have on his hard drive? But I would probably go nuts if he would choose, let's say... Lions! ... again and played it, this band would be perfect for it. Also the variation of songs he played on the first part of the 2013 tour should not be unterrated - although it was probably only done because of the only reason to initiate stick sales! ;)
LE
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I believe that our "mistake" in viewing the whole matter, is that we have knowledge and focus only to MK's output, studio and live, while his life is so much more than that, (don't forget the time used to compose, straighten out, rehearse and record) but of course he keeps it to himself. The new songs are inter-weaved to his current life and state of mind, so going back at his old numbers must seem much more old and tiring than it is to us.
I love SFA, perhaps the only hit from BiA that I still listen with pleasure.
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Sorry Ladies and Gents but am I missing the point here as it feels that some of these entry's are intent on putting MK down and just curious as to why?
MK is still MK and although older now is still a wonderful Baladeer and exceptional guitarist in my eyes. I can't grasp the 'He has to play things slower now' - well he does but I think he expresses more from the Guitar nowadays and actually makes it sing as opposed to the DS days!
After all peeps he is 20+ years older than when he stormed through SOS and TR on the 'On every Street' tour....
Hell guys get a grip! and enjoy the moment....
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I don't think he chooses the songs regarding good or bad memories in his life
R&J is about a sad moment in his life, and he still plays it
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I'm sorry folks but I just don't get this "oh, he's years older now than he was during DS days and we must accept that" or "we should be thankful he's still playing." Well there are many guitarists and other musicians still performing regularly who are older than Mark and put far more effort into their performances than Mark does these days. Mark has never exactly been one to dance around on stage but he's pretty static and never really breaks sweat so there's no excuse. He's just lazy IMO.
He's also lazy in his practicing and he's admitted to that in interviews. Maybe if he practiced more like he used to in the old days then songs like Sultans and playing the set a bit more up tempo wouldn't be an issue for him because he'd be a lot sharper.
It says a lot when the audience react tremendously to a crappy song like IUTC which is just a rehash of Two Young Lovers (a song slated by Knopfler himself). It only got a reaction like that because it was a welcome up tempo number in a set with mainly slow steady songs.
I don't like to criticise Mark like this because it is pretty harsh but I know he can give so much more that he's doing if he'd only put more effort in. Many of the solo's in TR last year were fantastic but I kind of got the impression he didn't bother for the rest of the show and thought more about having a good time on stage himself rather than giving his audience a good time.
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Sorry Ladies and Gents but am I missing the point here as it feels that some of these entry's are intent on putting MK down and just curious as to why?
MK is still MK and although older now is still a wonderful Baladeer and exceptional guitarist in my eyes. I can't grasp the 'He has to play things slower now' - well he does but I think he expresses more from the Guitar nowadays and actually makes it sing as opposed to the DS days!
After all peeps he is 20+ years older than when he stormed through SOS and TR on the 'On every Street' tour....
Hell guys get a grip! and enjoy the moment....
I agree Knopflerfan! :thumbsup
I would rather MK be like he is than like Springsteen, who rushes madly around the stage! Mark is not lazy, he's just laid-back and I like it! ;)
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I would rather MK be like he is than like Springsteen, who rushes madly around the stage! Mark is not lazy, he's just laid-back and I like it! ;)
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Oh, I agree - I don't wan't to see him leap around on stage either. That just isn't him. I was just using that to say he isn't exerting any energy on stage in a physical sense by moving around. Maybe if the set was a bit more energetic and up tempo then that would make him break sweat!
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Just an opinion from a long time songwriter.....
I look back at the stuff I wrote 25 years ago with distain and wouldn't wish to perform any of it these days, so I can understand the reluctance on Marks part to perform old songs.
Mark has grown, his writing skills have grown and he chooses to seldom look back. As for 'better or worse' that's just an opinion. Its like a tree, you can look at a 1000, how they have grown, what branches are the strongest, and express an opinion as to your favourite. Its still just an opinion, each has grown in its own unique way, just like our Mark, and a million other musicians in the forest since the first caveman banged on a rock.
Personally I'm a lover of all his stuff, I find there is something for me to learn in his catalogue in its entirety from start to present day.
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Just an opinion from a long time songwriter.....
I look back at the stuff I wrote 25 years ago with distain and wouldn't wish to perform any of it these days, so I can understand the reluctance on Marks part to perform old songs.
Mark has grown, his writing skills have grown and he chooses to seldom look back. As for 'better or worse' that's just an opinion. Its like a tree, you can look at a 1000, how they have grown, what branches are the strongest, and express an opinion as to your favourite. Its still just an opinion, each has grown in its own unique way, just like our Mark, and a million other musicians in the forest since the first caveman banged on a rock.
Personally I'm a lover of all his stuff, I find there is something for me to learn in his catalogue in its entirety from start to present day.
Do you really think his songs are better written now than in the early DS days? I think pre-BIA were his best days in terms of songwriting by some distance.
While I'm on my soapbox about laziness I may as well add his arrangements for the shows. In the DS days we had arrangements like Sultans and TOL which were far removed from the originals but now the new songs are performed exactly like the album on stage. No effort to go and try a new arrangement. The exception last tour of KOG is just an extended play-out with Mark soloing over it so that hardly even counts.
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dmg - MK has toured every year for the last four years and given us two fantastic albums, one a double, plus worked on other people's albums - and you say he's lazy! Could you do that? :disbelief
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Blimey DMG,
I and Mandy think that Mark has well and truly excelled with his song writing and looking back yes the BIA album was a very good era with regard to song writing but the solo material is far, far superior and so has his guitar playing albeit mellowed nowadays but I for one listen to 99% Solo with a little bit of DS for good measure but honestly sometimes say Walk of Life or MFN Comes on at Rugby and I find it cringe-worthy now especially as there is far better material he has done.....
You say each song is performed more or less like the album 'Live' so what?
I do and I know a lot of people who also pay their hard earned to hear just that - because it is live.
And MK Live is 'something else' and believe me Ive seen some artists in my time and I will pay anything to see/hear MK Live!
MK Doesn't need to prove anything to anyone - he is who he is!
Pays your money takes your choice.......
For the record it wouldn't bother me in the slightest If I never heard any DS Songs 'live' again!
Grrr!!
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PS: DMG, If you want a singer/Guitarist with some get up and go give Joe Bonamassa a go - he is awesome!!
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I did say pre-BIA. I think the first four albums were best in songwriting terms - no doubt in my mind.
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I did say pre-BIA. I think the first four albums were best in songwriting terms - no doubt in my mind.
Excuse me for this question, but because I am not a native English speaking person (which you have surely noticed), I like to ask. Do you mean that songwriting is whole song: melody, lyrics, instrumental arrangement. Or do you mean just lyrics?
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I did say pre-BIA. I think the first four albums were best in songwriting terms - no doubt in my mind.
Excuse me for this question, but because I am not a native English speaking person (which you have surely noticed), I like to ask. Do you mean that songwriting is whole song: melody, lyrics, instrumental arrangement. Or do you mean just lyrics?
Sorry, I wasn't specific. I meant lyrics.
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Its funny you mention Springsteen. I asked in another forum where i could post about non MK stuff but this seems like the perfect place now. The first album i ever fell in love with was The Rising in around 2005, i was about 11 at the time. But after that i didn't really follow up on Bruce and look into his other stuff. My dad played STP one day and i then went through my phase of playing nothing but MK for about 2 years. But after hearing Darkness On The Edge of Town one day i looked up Springsteen further and have since listened to every bit of work they have. Now, having an obsession with both artists i feel allows me to analyse them both. You mention the live performances there and i think that's the biggest difference between the two. I saw MK in Dublin in 2011 before Dylan and while it was special and i was incredibly excited there is no presence there. No real interaction. And as someone else pointed it out he is very lazy in his performances. Bruce on the other hand, well i don't even have to go there do i? My first Springsteen concert was in 2012 in the RDS in Dublin, it was the second night he was there and i regretted so much not buying a ticket for the first night as well. Without doubt the greatest 3 and a half hours of my life. I wondered how long it would be before he came back so when he announced 5 dates in Ireland in 2013 i booked 4 of them, the man is a genius. I absolutely love Mark but i think its safe to say, for me, Bruce is a much better artist. Even as a guitarist he is superb, not as good as Mark but he aint half bad! When you look at their catalogues, Bruce's wins for me hands down. So many epic albums and he covers such a wide genre. STP reminds me JUST how good Mark is. But i don't think he has a song for every mood or emotion. Whereas i think Bruce does. Is there anyone here who loves Springsteen just as much as MK? Do we have any huge fans?
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Wow, a lot happend today while I was away. Our dear dmg seems to be in the minor position here, so please forgive me folks if I try and to back him a bit, although I am sure he's not in need of that.
I once made the same remark about Mark being "lazy" many years ago and got a lot of opposition then. What I meant was not "lazy" in the sence of hanging around and sleep until 15:00 am, but a certain comfort... always Chuck, always Guy, always the same band... always the same routine.. that makes him feeling good, feeling safe I presume. Also Telegraph Road is the end of the main set every time, and so on. But he is as he is. I also understand what dmg says about the song quality. The true and timeless gems (Sultans, Romeo, Where Do You Think You're Going and and and..) have all been written in another time. The songs from today are from another quality. The old ones where driven by the mind of guitarist, the new ones come from the situation, the lyrics.. I am happy to have this big catalogue, and I am happy that Mark is still going. For me there is ONE skipper on Privateering, and that is pretty good for a double imho.
And I like IUTC by the way because it is exactly what Mark was always talking about when he spoke about Uncle Kingsley playing boogie-woogie. i love the Stuttgart version from the recordings, it is pretty on fire, and live I have to admit that it was close to the best moment on the first London show 2013 seeing Mark shredding away on this song! ;)
I hope this first new thread from me doesn't bring unease and fire in a group of people I recall being friends? :wave
LE
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My point of view as a fan that attends MK shows since 1996 is that I
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I wouldnt call him lazy but he is in a comfort zone which is probably an age thing. Surely thats allowed though, we all want to kick back and chill out as we get older.
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Dmg is not alone, I agree with him 100% :thumbsup :)
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I'm glad that he slows down the musical pace a little bit and discovers deceleration. He could do the rock thing (he proved it several times in last concerts), but i think it's a better statement to focus on melody, harmony and on the story; in a time where speed is everything and people suffer from stress, burnout and so on.
Of course, speed, dancing and shaking have their effects, but there are so many musicians out there who want to rock a crowd, and only a few dare to slow down and to play in a moderate, melodic way. I like it how he plays nowadays. (and of course i loved the rock thing as well in the past, but for me it doesn't feel apropriate anymore)
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[...] but for someone who can find himself in that song is priceless. [...]
That is a very important point. And somehow, because he likes to use vague indications, I can connect to the lyrics quite often, even concerning the latest songs....
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Dmg is not alone, I agree with him 100% :thumbsup :)
Phew, I was getting lonely over here! ;D
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But, damn, I miss his guitar that used to sing like angels on a Saturday night.....
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Do you really think his songs are better written now than in the early DS days? I think pre-BIA were his best days in terms of songwriting by some distance.
While I'm on my soapbox about laziness I may as well add his arrangements for the shows. In the DS days we had arrangements like Sultans and TOL which were far removed from the originals but now the new songs are performed exactly like the album on stage. No effort to go and try a new arrangement. The exception last tour of KOG is just an extended play-out with Mark soloing over it so that hardly even counts.
That wasn't really my point, my point is that he has evolved, like it or not. I happen to like it, you're not so keen, its all just opinion.
It is human nature to evolve, if mark was still wearing a headband and churning out mtv hits there would be something wrong, it would show a lack of musical evolution.
The ultimate trump card is that what he was always best at (storytelling using lyrics, Guitar and arrangement) has continued to develop to the point of excellence.
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I have a great problem listening to Bruce's work after Tunnel of love. The latest 4-5 records were good, but compared to his lovely first 7-8 records, they sound , how can I put it elegantly... not essential. But I know, that each record gains an audience at its time, so I can really relate to your feelings about his output after the rising. But the lives he gives, I hear they are a marvelous and extra long!