A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: El Macho on September 16, 2013, 12:03:04 PM
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According to several sources, MK will contribute to the new Johnny Winter album! Release date : spring 2014
http://www.njherald.com/story/23414574/johnny-winters-survival-story-continues
http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1861681&Itemid=1
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If his latest collaborations are anything to go by I'm not building my hopes up. IMHO he's taking part in too many of these pointless collaborations where he's completely wasted. I don't even bother to get a copy any more, yet thinking back years ago they used to be something special. Jimmy Nail's Big River springs to mind. Brilliant.
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Among his latest collaborations , MK is brilliant in a few of them :
Sonny Landreth: Blue Tarp Blues
Greg Brown : Flat stuff
Chris Botti : Wonderful world
Ruth Moody : Pockets
America : Sailing to Philadelphia
I don't always buy the album, most often I download (buy) the mp3 versions.
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There are so many now, I can't keep track of all of them. I tend to think that a lot of them are just favours for friends.
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If his latest collaborations are anything to go by I'm not building my hopes up. IMHO he's taking part in too many of these pointless collaborations where he's completely wasted. I don't even bother to get a copy any more, yet thinking back years ago they used to be something special. Jimmy Nail's Big River springs to mind. Brilliant.
Agreed. In the past couple of years, I can only stand up for the song with Chris Botti; the latest Jimmy Buffett's pearl; and Sarah, with Jon Allen. To me, all the rest is by the way...
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If his latest collaborations are anything to go by I'm not building my hopes up. IMHO he's taking part in too many of these pointless collaborations where he's completely wasted. I don't even bother to get a copy any more, yet thinking back years ago they used to be something special. Jimmy Nail's Big River springs to mind. Brilliant.
Agreed. In the past couple of years, I can only stand up for the song with Chris Botti; the latest Jimmy Buffett's pearl; and Sarah, with Jon Allen. To me, all the rest is by the way...
Agreed too. MK should focus on his own brilliant materials for us true fans. :)
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If his latest collaborations are anything to go by I'm not building my hopes up. IMHO he's taking part in too many of these pointless collaborations where he's completely wasted. I don't even bother to get a copy any more, yet thinking back years ago they used to be something special. Jimmy Nail's Big River springs to mind. Brilliant.
Agreed. In the past couple of years, I can only stand up for the song with Chris Botti; the latest Jimmy Buffett's pearl; and Sarah, with Jon Allen. To me, all the rest is by the way...
Agreed too. MK should focus on his own brilliant materials for us true fans. :)
Sonny Landreth's Blue Tarp Blues is an amazing song, not to be by the way.
I also like Mark's solo in William Topley's Sea Fever
Of course these songs are from more than two years ago...
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If his latest collaborations are anything to go by I'm not building my hopes up. IMHO he's taking part in too many of these pointless collaborations where he's completely wasted. I don't even bother to get a copy any more, yet thinking back years ago they used to be something special. Jimmy Nail's Big River springs to mind. Brilliant.
Agreed. In the past couple of years, I can only stand up for the song with Chris Botti; the latest Jimmy Buffett's pearl; and Sarah, with Jon Allen. To me, all the rest is by the way...
Agreed too. MK should focus on his own brilliant materials for us true fans. :)
Sonny Landreth's Blue Tarp Blues is an amazing song, not to be by the way.
I also like Mark's solo in William Topley's Sea Fever
Of course these songs are from more than two years ago...
Just listened to Blue Tarp Blues for the first time. It's a great song and nice to hear MK rocking.
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really like his work on pockets.
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And the John Fogerty was not a throw away. Reminiscent of the SOS riff!
The B.B. King collaboration was above average.
And the ones in the Sonny Landreth South 10 CD are good.
And how about the Thomas Dolby one?
We should always remember that a collaboration on somebody else's album is always subjected to the wishes of the artist, whose name is on the cover. Some really go for the MK sound, some just use him as a reliable guitarist to express their vision. From the older collaborations, Steely dan's is one that comes in mind. With so many fantastic guitar players, they used MK and although he sounds like MK, Fagen and Becker were in total control.
By the way, on Aztec camera LP that he produced, I could swear I hear his playing in a couple of tracks, but since I can't find him in the credits as a player, most probably he showed the moves to the band. They are more MK than MK!!!
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17 hills is a great song
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And the John Fogerty was not a throw away. Reminiscent of the SOS riff!
The B.B. King collaboration was above average.
And the ones in the Sonny Landreth South 10 CD are good.
And how about the Thomas Dolby one?
We should always remember that a collaboration on somebody else's album is always subjected to the wishes of the artist, whose name is on the cover. Some really go for the MK sound, some just use him as a reliable guitarist to express their vision. From the older collaborations, Steely dan's is one that comes in mind. With so many fantastic guitar players, they used MK and although he sounds like MK, Fagen and Becker were in total control.
By the way, on Aztec camera LP that he produced, I could swear I hear his playing in a couple of tracks, but since I can't find him in the credits as a player, most probably he showed the moves to the band. They are more MK than MK!!!
Oh, yep, if qe go further back in time he has made great stuff with others. But yes, I have forgotten the John Fogerty thing. It's ok. Even if sometimes it sounds like an SoS pastiche, not the real thing. When I hear it, I always think John has asked "hey, Marko, please do something like SoS but in a way that i don't have to share song credits with you".
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Still think of the collaborations as bonuses! I mean, if it wasn't for MK in the early days, I would have found out about Willy Deville, Randy Newman, Steely Dan, Aztec Camera, Gerry Rafferty and some more, much much later! I was introduced to all these great artists through MK and I enjoy them very much. May I suggest listening to Steely Dan's 70ies work. They are just a class on their own! Each album a masterpiece and I guess MK got something from them: caring about detail.
I was very surprised to see or find out retrospectively, MK collaborating with some of the musicians I already had in my collection, such as Jimmy Buffett, Dandy Warhols, Kate & Ann McGarrigle, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, John Fogerty, Phil Lynnott and others. I wish he had an official recording with Steve Miller, David Gilmour, Gary Moore, Darren Hayman, Stuart Murdoch, Tom Verlaine, to name just a few.
And don't forget that Buddy Guy contribution and the 2 Jools Holland pieces. Great!
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Bill Wymans Dissapearing Nightly has some great guitaring from MK and its a good song,
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How could I forget it! A former stone!
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And don't forget that Buddy Guy contribution and the 2 Jools Holland pieces. Great!
Oh, really, that Buddy Guy album is one of the best blues records ever released! But again, older collaborations, in my opinion, are far superior than more recente ones, with a bunch of exceptions already quoted.
P.S.: vgonis, is Greece coming to Brazil next year? :)
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I also like very much MK on Brendan Croker's album The great indoors, mainly on There'll come a day !
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I also like very much MK on Brendan Croker's album The great indoors, mainly on There'll come a day !
All Crocker albums (3 plus EP) with the MK touch are wonderful! It is really a shame he is not more well known.
And don't forget that Buddy Guy contribution and the 2 Jools Holland pieces. Great!
Oh, really, that Buddy Guy album is one of the best blues records ever released! But again, older collaborations, in my opinion, are far superior than more recente ones, with a bunch of exceptions already quoted.
P.S.: vgonis, is Greece coming to Brazil next year? :)
I avoided going back more than 10-15 years,(bar Buddy Guy) because until the mid 90ies everything MK touched seemed golden to me. Maybe my age, maybe his age. Who can tell...
I think that even by selling everything, we will still not make enough to buy the airplane tickets for all the athletes. It is such a shame. Really now, the cut backs have seriously affected the athletes. You can't be a professional athlete in Greece, except for the lucky footballers and basketballers. All the other sports, are so under-paying that unless you have a sponsor, you are almost doomed. See where Greece has gone after the 2008 olympics... And another fact, I have stopped watching sports since 1997.
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I also like very much MK on Brendan Croker's album The great indoors, mainly on There'll come a day !
All Crocker albums (3 plus EP) with the MK touch are wonderful! It is really a shame he is not more well known.
By 3 albums you mean : BC & the 5 o'clock shadows, The great indoors and The Kershaw sessions ?
I know there's an EP with No money at all that contains live tracks with MK, but I never found it, it must be very rare.
What songs are on the EP? Is there a youtube link where I could listen to them ?
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Spot on the albums. The EP i was refering is this :
http://www.oneverybootleg.nl/officially_owned_brendancroker_EP.htm
No money at all single contains an extra track from live at Leeds.
http://www.oneverybootleg.nl/officially_owned_brendancroker_nomoneyatall.htm
Brendan Croker has a wonderful site with all his work involvements!
http://www.brendancroker.com/BCA/Discographie%20Brendan%20Croker.html
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sorry to repeat it again, but the main guitar you hear on the Fogerty track is NOT Mark. It's John.
as mentioned on the booklet, John is on the left channel, Mark is on the right channel, and he's playing only few licks that you can barely hear.
So, I agree that the song riff is a "clin d'oeil" to Sultans, but I believe it's not because Mark is playing on the song. And IMHO, the song would have sounded almost exactly the same without Mark, like on many other collaborations.
On Steely dan's Time out of mind, Mark is on the right channel, and you can hear distinctly only from 00:50 and on the outro
the first guitar at the begining of the song, and on the center channel is NOT Mark, it's Hugh Mc Cracken or Walter Brecker
so when I read that some collaborations contains some typical MK sounds, I believe that some people make a mistake :
they believe they hear Mark as distinctive sound in the song, while he is just in the background
just my 2 cents
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JF, no argument man! ;-) You are the details guy! :-)
The only thing we said, as this topic has turn out, is that in the songs that Mark is playing are great. The mention of MK guitars was implied. OK about Fogerty we were totally off, but read this again, I gave Steely Dan exactly as an example of what you say.
Anyway I am talking about good songs, and by the end that I talk about good guitar sound, I make the distinction and even mention the Aztec camera example. What I mean is that it is the MK name that made as focus on these artists and collaborations, even if MK does not sound as MK or even if he does not play! Somehow he had an affect on the songs.
I would really love to talk to you about music! You seem to know so many things. Maybe we should organise a convention, a get together of the AMITers!
And the John Fogerty was not a throw away. Reminiscent of the SOS riff!
The B.B. King collaboration was above average.
And the ones in the Sonny Landreth South 10 CD are good.
And how about the Thomas Dolby one?
We should always remember that a collaboration on somebody else's album is always subjected to the wishes of the artist, whose name is on the cover. Some really go for the MK sound, some just use him as a reliable guitarist to express their vision. From the older collaborations, Steely dan's is one that comes in mind. With so many fantastic guitar players, they used MK and although he sounds like MK, Fagen and Becker were in total control.
By the way, on Aztec camera LP that he produced, I could swear I hear his playing in a couple of tracks, but since I can't find him in the credits as a player, most probably he showed the moves to the band. They are more MK than MK!!!
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well I said it before, but I don't see the point to ask Mister Mark Knopfer to play on my album, if I don't want a typical Knopfler sound, or if I ask him to play only few licks barely audible.
Why ask a legendary guitarist to play on a track if it's not to play "iconic", "recognizable" guitar sound ?
It's like if I asked Michel Pettrucciani (RIP) to play on my song, but saying to him ": Well Michel, just play few notes, my other keyboard player will do the rest of the job...." :smack :disbelief
the steely dan song is a typical example : imagine the brecker-fagen conversation :
- hey did you hear this fantastic new band ? dire straits ?
- ah yes great, I love the guitar player !
- hey why wouldn't we ask him to play on our next record ?
- ah yes good idea ! I want this crisp clean crunch chicken sound ! love it !
- ok ok, but keep 2 other guitarist in the foreground, and let him just on one channel, not too loud please !
:hmm :disbelief ???
I think that the "logical" approach would have been to mix Mark in the center, to have only one lead guitar on this song, and at least to let him play the intro lick. Otherwise, I don't understand the reason to ask him to play on a particular song. the other guitarist could have done the job, and the song wouldn't have been THAT different
the Dylan approach for slow train coming was more logical :
bob played the rhythm, and asked Mark to play typical licks instantly recognizable, to color his songs, and therefore you have a Bob Dylan album with Knopfler guitar on it, not an album with just his name on credits....
I'm not sure I know many things....I learned much from here ! and from you :)
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Steely Dan have produced at least 2 of my all time favourite albums, Pretzel Logic and Katy Lied, while The royal Scum, Countdown to ecstacy and Can't buy a thrill are bubbling just underneath. It is peculiar, but Groucho and Aja are not quite doing it for me. But I have bought and read their authorized biography and I have to say that the dialogue you made up is more or less the way they worked!
They had become a studio band more or less, and the company was quite happy with their sales so they provided them with lots of money and studio time, while they tried to please their every request. One of them was to bring many musicians, and not just guitarists. They would book them, record their part, pay them and dismiss them after the session, without even telling them if their part will be used!
Then bring another one and another one till it clicked. It was common that when after 4-5 guitarists they couldn't get the "touch" they were after, Walter Becker, one of the two Dans, would pick up his guitar and record his contribution! They scrapped so many guitar parts from well known guitarists such as Larry Carlton and Jeff Baxter (which by the way were considered members of the band) and other well known that never saw their name in the albums' credits! I wonder if we will ever hear these contributions! So it is no surprise that they treated MK and his contribution this way. They told him to record again and again and then told him that they are through. He was flambergusted, because he didn't know if they liked it. They never told him! It wasn't because they were already famous while MK was on the rise, or because his playing wasn't good (the biography has 1-2 insightful pages about knopfler) but because they were perfectionists (probably Knopfler was impressed and influenced by this attitude).
They were going for the best final full outcome. They were trying to fit the sound into their vision about the song, not the other way around. They sure liked him, otherwise they wouldn't have even asked or even worse use his part.
And I guess this is what is going on with recent collaborations. He befriends with musicians and offers to play. Some write or have something ready that suits his iconic guitar sound, while others just take him for a hired gun, for a credit and a few thousand sales more (I'm just being cynic, I know) . ;)
I like the Slow train album very much for the reason you mention. I think this is a really full contribution. Then again the Neck and Neck record or even the Notting Hillbillies one might give the answer to his part of the change in the collaborations and the style on guitar. The interviews from that period was to create a band and be in it, unrecognized. OK, he was too big a name to be left in obscurity and it was good for the other members in order to make some bob, so it got very big again!
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I just wish to god that Mark would hurray up with his One Direction collaboration........ ::)
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So, is Mk going to play in Winter's cd? As long as i recall he just said he would like to play with Mk...
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I just wish to god that Mark would hurray up with his One Direction collaboration........ ::)
Is stop writing going to do the trick or will you wait for the actual release? ;D
So, is Mk going to play in Winter's cd? As long as i recall he just said he would like to play with Mk...
No need to be on it. We have focused on it anyway, just by the mention of his name. ;)
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vgonis thanks very much for the info ! very enlightening :thumbsup
I can confirm : you know much things than me (at least about steely dan) ;)
I must admit I don't know steely dan music, I just have the gaucho album because of Mark of course, and the only things I know about them are the few lines on the Odlfied book, where it's said that they were talking about Mark at the third person, while he was in the same room ! I think it's suits very well with all you explained. :)
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;) Have a lovely weekend JF!
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According to MKNEWS its true that MK will be in next Johny Winter cd, who will be released next february, looks like its a 4cd compilation, but I didnt find in which track MK plays :-\
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Guys, do we not think that the nature of these 'collaborations' has changed due to the advance of music technology?
Let me clarify further.
20 years ago Mark would have to actually spend some hard earned time in a studio with his chosen collaborators. Now days everything is done in isolation, the artists in question often never even meet in person. Tracks can be recorded in London and cut and pasted in L.A.
Thoughts?
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I guess you can see it this way. I mean, playing in the same place at the same time is supposed to bring more "warm" and "natural" results. On the other hand, the overdubbing business has been here for almost half a century. And as you said, technology has progressed, so in a way it doesn't matter if the recording studios are thousand miles away and the time is days or months apart. There are many reasons that the latest collaborations seem inferior, if they do. Maybe we have grown older and the surprise element has faded. Or maybe it is in fact the pace of life that doesn't allow us to sink in the songs like in our days as teens. Maybe our artists are growing older, or maybe the new music has affected us so much we have little tolerance for things sounding old, except the real vintage old stuff. I don't know.
After all Steely Dan, Bob Dylan and most of the other studio collaborations have overdubs and every DS album has overdubbed as well. Of course the point you make is valid, because the physical presence was a given in those days, but still...
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I always found that, on most collaborations, MK plays with the handbrake on.. to keep his own stuff exclusive if you like. You could also say "half-arsed" - best example is the new recording of Sailing To Philadelphia by America... I mean, he played it much better on every live tour, even the ones with mistakes are better than that...
There might be many examples showing the opposite, but that is only because he really is SO productive. Yes, he really knows what his playing is worth and knows how to dose it. No offence to dear Mark, rather the opposite. I bet that solo on Redbud Tree would not be that impressive if there were four or five other Strat solos of the same calibre on the album...
When playing together with Bob Dylan in London, last show 2011, now THAT was a collaboration.. you could really touch the magic.. even on a YouTube clip!! ;D so I guess, yeah, you are right. Collaborations are somewhat redundant these days. Playing live in one room is everything. He knows it and does it more extensive than he used to.
Only my two cent of course.
LE
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I agree LE. I don't get excited by the prospect of a collaboration any more (of this sort) and even have to motivate myself to give them a listen these days whereas before I would have to own everything he played on.
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I agree with LE too. Mark keeps playing "in comfort zone", and yes the redbud tree solo has nothing special IMHO, compraed to many other clean strat solos in his carreer.
About overdubs/natural results, I think that it is more complex :
Mark and Tony Joe White played together in the same room in 2007 for "one bad thought". Does it sound more "spontaneous" or "fresh" than other collaborations ?
What is the more spontaneous recording :
- a band playing together in the same room, BUT recording the 20th take, after several days rehearsing the tune ?
OR
- a musician playing alone along a backing track, but recording the FIRST take, just jamming and improvising ?
there are many examples of bands recording albums playing together in the same room, and you immediately think of "spontaneity" "freshness" "natural result", but you don't know how many takes they did before the one you hear on the final mix
on the other hand, I remember Jimmy Page explaining that he recorded his overdubbed solo for "since I've been loving you" (one of the best in rock history IMHO) in ONE take, in the corridor of the studio because the mainroom was not available. That's what I call "spontaneity", but it's an overdubb though....
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http://youtu.be/X3aeA2OWXd4
Nothing can beat the live thrill, if it is a concert. It is more of a physical experience than just sound in your ears. That is the reason why so many great live bands have to "fix" their live recordings in order to appear on record.
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Guys, do we not think that the nature of these 'collaborations' has changed due to the advance of music technology?
Let me clarify further.
20 years ago Mark would have to actually spend some hard earned time in a studio with his chosen collaborators. Now days everything is done in isolation, the artists in question often never even meet in person. Tracks can be recorded in London and cut and pasted in L.A.
Thoughts?
good point
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I agree with LE too. Mark keeps playing "in comfort zone", and yes the redbud tree solo has nothing special IMHO, compraed to many other clean strat solos in his carreer.
About overdubs/natural results, I think that it is more complex :
Mark and Tony Joe White played together in the same room in 2007 for "one bad thought". Does it sound more "spontaneous" or "fresh" than other collaborations ?
For me its not a matter of sound fresh one way or the other, its a matter that if B.B.King wants me to play in one of his songs, I would be excited because I
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Maybe they will meet in a future Crossroads festival! And who says they haven't met. They probably have. Just not played on tape together.
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It seems that MK contributes to some liner notes in the new 4CD Winter copmilation. And reading the Winter interview, he just mentions that he would like to co-operate with MK, but his tour schedule is so tight for 2014 that probably we want see any recordings before 2015 (Roots 2?) . And given this release, I wonder...
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http://www.classicrockrevisited.com/show_interview.php?id=173
3 paragraphs from the end
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thanx vgonis for posting this!
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Thanks for this thread--it's good to find out about a couple of the collaborations I missed along the line. I like MK's "It's a Wonderful World" on Chris Botti's cd better than the famous version. It's more reflective, thoughtful, gentle than Armstrong's. That's not a criticism of Armstrong. Just my own personal taste. I love Jon Allen too, although that one took a couple of listens.
Dolby's good. Also, Dolby had a great series of videos out about how he and MK worked together to get just the sound Dolby wanted. A great thing to watch--MK's patience and cooperation with Dolby take by take.
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Don't mention it Surfer! These collaborations are the next best thing, because you get to find out new music with the added bonus of MK!
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According MKNEWS, MK its not going to be in the Johny Winter cd in the end...
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because it's gonna be a hot summer
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Many fans were waiting for this colaboration for years and years... We thought it was about to happen, but in the end it didn't, or at least, it wont be released.
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Thanks for tips on other collaborations one have not heard of before. "Disappering Nightly" is a new favorite of mine and especially "Sonny Landreth: Blue Tarp Blues". WOW.... what a great track with MK. THANKS for that !
This forum is an excellent place of neverending info ;)
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In response to some earlier comments about collaboration: I think that probably MK's playing on many collaborations is understated because he doesn't want to outshine or take center stage on someone else's project. He is basically a courteous, thoughtful, and professional musician. As a guest, his job is to complement the musician's project, not to call attention to himself. (Though for MK fans, his contribution is obvious and much appreciated.) Whether the part is overdubbed or they are in the same studio, it's still the primary artist's call, and MK is respectful of that. It's not talent or desire, it's professionalism.
'
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Irisrose,
Is that the precious golden heart pendant? do you own one? I looked everywhere on the internet. Where can I get one?
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Sweetsurrender, keep looking on ebay, and please people here also to help my friend :)
I lost mine and thanks to this amazing bunch of people I found one on ebay again. But be prepared to pay way too much! At least I did, but I wanted one back so badly
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Irisrose,
Is that the precious golden heart pendant? do you own one? I looked everywhere on the internet. Where can I get one?
it's the pin
pendant
(http://s11.postimg.org/mpr0kxedv/GH_pendant.jpg)
pin
(http://s21.postimg.org/4ch57tv3r/GH_pin.jpg)
(not my items)
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Sweetsurrender, keep looking on ebay, and please people here also to help my friend :)
I lost mine and thanks to this amazing bunch of people I found one on ebay again. But be prepared to pay way too much! At least I did, but I wanted one back so badly
Ingrid,
I remembered your story. Anyone come across this necklace again pleaseeeeeee let me know.
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Irisrose,
Is that the precious golden heart pendant? do you own one? I looked everywhere on the internet. Where can I get one?
it's the pin
Thanks Rudiger for the pic. So precious.
pendant
(http://s11.postimg.org/mpr0kxedv/GH_pendant.jpg)
pin
(http://s21.postimg.org/4ch57tv3r/GH_pin.jpg)
(not my items)
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I guess we can strike that collaboration now.
RIP Johnny
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I heard this sad news...
This collaboration was supposed to be on JW's new album, maybe it's been recorded and not released ?
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Perhaps there will be a posthumous release with money going to his favourite charity, if his family agree to it.
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Sad news indeed. He was such an exceptional musician and he will be greatly missed. His MK collaboration is really not part of it. Although the last JW compilation did contain a text by MK.
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In a few weeks there will be a posthumous album from mister Winter. A lot of collaborations - Ben Harper, Clapton, Brian Setzer, Billy Gibbons, Bonamassa, Joe Perry, Dr. John -, but not MK.
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Maybe on an album like the Breeze? ???