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Author Topic: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)  (Read 89379 times)

Offlinejbaent

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #150 on: December 27, 2017, 08:07:13 AM »
Alan was very good at some stage of DS's activity. But GF is more versatile

Alan was good at synthetizers as well, but MK needed someone capable to program a synclavier, that was pretty new at the time, and Guy was clever enough to learn how to do it when in Roxy Music, and that gave him the job with MK.

As a musician, Alan is far better, but a co-worker, Guy suits better MK demands. Probably Alan would try to push the music ahead, Guy would do just what MK wants or suggest just what he knows MK would agree.
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Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #151 on: December 27, 2017, 09:57:10 AM »
Alan was an outstanding musician. Highly creative with incredible technique and knowledge. I think he simply didn’t move on and got bitter instead of paving his own way outside DS. He had the skills and the name but chose another path. Now I see him in those interviews and he sounds pathetically delusional.

It’s a shame cos as a musician he was largely superior to GF.
How do we know all this?

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Well, what did Alan get up to after 1992 and before his tribute band? A world class musician like him? If he was to be credited as a songwriter for many DS songs as he claims why didn’t he start another band 20 years ago to prove his point? It’s all there.
But that's my point, how do we know that he was incredibly creative and talented and came up with all these great arrangements himself? And what are we basing the opinion that he is better than GF on?

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Offlinejbaent

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #152 on: December 27, 2017, 11:03:15 AM »
Alan was an outstanding musician. Highly creative with incredible technique and knowledge. I think he simply didn’t move on and got bitter instead of paving his own way outside DS. He had the skills and the name but chose another path. Now I see him in those interviews and he sounds pathetically delusional.

It’s a shame cos as a musician he was largely superior to GF.
How do we know all this?

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Well, what did Alan get up to after 1992 and before his tribute band? A world class musician like him? If he was to be credited as a songwriter for many DS songs as he claims why didn’t he start another band 20 years ago to prove his point? It’s all there.
But that's my point, how do we know that he was incredibly creative and talented and came up with all these great arrangements himself? And what are we basing the opinion that he is better than GF on?

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I´m not an expert in music but Alan played all the pianos, hammonds, all other kind of organs (what could be could the real stuff in keyboards) and even synths while Guy was only the synths one, even during the MK solo career, all that Alan used to play was played by "experts" like Jim Cox or Matt Rollings and Guy stayed as the synths one, but he started to play from time to time hammonds and during the NHB shows the piano. That's what I base my unexpert opinion about Alan being better than Guy, I might said "more complete" than better, probably. Actually, if I have to start a band, between them, I would choose Alan basing in that.

About why he didn't came out with anything else after DS disbanded... I guess that tour was too stressful for most of them. It took almost to 1995 to MK to start his solo career, John abandoned music until recently, Guy played with Bryan Ferry from time to time and wrote music for adds, documentaries etc, like Alan, the others, all session musicians, kept doing sessions, but the ones that were DS, according to OES, they took their time. Who knows what happened to Alan... if he really had any problems with alcohol or drugs, as sometimes someone point out, I guess it must had been during the period after DS disbanded. Actually I didn't hear about him until year 2000 that I saw his name in some records credits, being David Knopfler three consecutive records at the time one of those.

I find this credits, most of them are for compilations, some of them actual records, but I miss some, like the DS records where he played https://www.allmusic.com/artist/alan-clark-mn0000622884/credits

I even remember Alan and Guy worked together in some music for documentaries...
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 11:17:46 AM by jbaent »
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Offlineskydiver

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #153 on: December 27, 2017, 12:43:44 PM »
Alan was an outstanding musician. Highly creative with incredible technique and knowledge. I think he simply didn’t move on and got bitter instead of paving his own way outside DS. He had the skills and the name but chose another path. Now I see him in those interviews and he sounds pathetically delusional.

It’s a shame cos as a musician he was largely superior to GF.
How do we know all this?

Sent from my Tab2A7-20F using Tapatalk

Well, what did Alan get up to after 1992 and before his tribute band? A world class musician like him? If he was to be credited as a songwriter for many DS songs as he claims why didn’t he start another band 20 years ago to prove his point? It’s all there.
But that's my point, how do we know that he was incredibly creative and talented and came up with all these great arrangements himself? And what are we basing the opinion that he is better than GF on?

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Thanks dusty for bringing up your question!
This AC worshipping here (and MK&GF bashing) without actual inside knowledge is disgusting.

Offlinejbaent

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #154 on: December 27, 2017, 01:07:50 PM »
Actually, all are opinions and interpretations of this and that, the inside knowledge is not available for us.
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Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #155 on: December 27, 2017, 01:30:14 PM »
Actually, all are opinions and interpretations of this and that, the inside knowledge is not available for us.
Exactly, I'm just asking if there is anything to base all this on.

A narrative has developed that AC was this genius who came up with all the good stuff while he was in the band.

I'm just wondering what evidence there is to support this?

OK, AC was the only keys person on LOG so we can assume that he came up with most of the keys parts. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe MK told him what to play. Fits in with the view that MK was a tough boss, right?

On BIA and OES we have GF. From memory GF said he came up with the intro to MFN. That's my own personal favourite section of EVERYTHING MK has ever done. Ever. But wait, AC is a better musician and GF is just a yes man, blah blah blah.



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OfflineRobson

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #156 on: December 27, 2017, 01:50:52 PM »
"Thanks dusty for bringing up your question!
This AC worshipping here (and MK&GF bashing) without actual inside knowledge is disgusting"

I have the same impression  ???
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OfflinePensaGhost

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #157 on: December 27, 2017, 02:02:42 PM »
MK plays the keyboards well too, he just likes the guitar more

According to Mimmo Carrata who has more knowledge than all us put together, MK wrote all the piano/keyboards arrangements and AC
didn't create anything of his own during the DS
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Offlinejbaent

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #158 on: December 27, 2017, 02:26:53 PM »
Actually, all are opinions and interpretations of this and that, the inside knowledge is not available for us.
Exactly, I'm just asking if there is anything to base all this on.

A narrative has developed that AC was this genius who came up with all the good stuff while he was in the band.

I'm just wondering what evidence there is to support this?


There is not an evidence in absolute terms. It's an opinion, and as we say in Spain, opinion and ass are the same, everyone has one.  ;D And it's not "that AC came up with all the good stuff", is that he came up with very nice adds here and there in many of the songs that made them sound great, obviosly, let's say, "the ice in the cake" of the great songs that MK brought to the studio, and to the stage. Sometimes, specially live, many of the arrangements made them even better, but that's again an opionion, as there may be people who can't stand keyboards and/or sax arrangements in, for example, Sultans Of Swing.

And, again, my opinion, during the live are without AC, these arrangements are not so nice, sometimes boring than in those years.

I guess tha point could be that English is not my main language, and I try to write as fast as I think, I do literal translation and forget to add "imho" everywhere and I may sound like I'm doing statements. It's not an excuse, it's my fault, I know I do this and I do very little to avoid it. I'm truly sorry for it.  :-[

Quote

OK, AC was the only keys person on LOG so we can assume that he came up with most of the keys parts. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe MK told him what to play. Fits in with the view that MK was a tough boss, right?


Yes, it fits with what some of the musicians who played with him and talked about it said. My guess is that MK asks for a piano intro, a piano solo, a hammond here and there and it's the player who plays it without more indications than "play a piano part in a nostalgic way", or maybe MK whistle it note by note. When it comes to TR, what I read from AC is that both of them worked and built the song during the On Location tour soundchecks and rehearsals.

However, even MK was a tough boss, AC stayed in DS since the first day he put his feet in the band until the band disbanded, so I guess he coped very well with the tough boss and even managed to help to develope the songs in the studio and in the stage in the more succesful era of the band. Same than John, Guy and Chris.

Quote
On BIA and OES we have GF. From memory GF said he came up with the intro to MFN. That's my own personal favourite section of EVERYTHING MK has ever done. Ever. But wait, AC is a better musician and GF is just a yes man, blah blah blah.

For me is quite boring and I always skip it. BIA has too much synths for me, I don't like it, I preffer the organic sounds from pianos, hammonds etc from LOG. For me AC is better because what he plays, GF synths for me are boring, and when he plays hammonds, organs etc, it doesn't make me feel "wow, that sounds great", just ok.

And that Guy is a yes man, it's also an opinion, widely shared by many fans. Maybe not you, maybe not others and, as an opinion, can't not be the absolute truth.

I hope this time I put the correct amount of in my opinion to not hurt any feelings  ;D and I want to add that these opinions are based on things I read from long ago in interviews from many people related to DS/MK since I follow the band, that I can't quote exactly as my memory is not so good, I cannot say exactly where and when I read Jack Sonni, Tommy Mandel, David Knopfler, Alan Clark, Chris White, Phil Palmer, John Illsley, Pick Withers, Willy De Ville, Guy Fletcher, Manu Katche, Paul Franklin etc etc etc etc etc saying this or that, but I do remember more or less what it was said in those interviews, although sometimes I can't remember exactly who said it  :lol

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Offlinejbaent

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #159 on: December 27, 2017, 02:27:47 PM »
MK plays the keyboards well too, he just likes the guitar more

According to Mimmo Carrata who has more knowledge than all us put together, MK wrote all the piano/keyboards arrangements and AC
didn't create anything of his own during the DS

Word of ghost.

My bet is that's Mimmo opinion as well. I know musicians whose opinion is that most of that piano/keyboards parts and arrangements needs of a knowledge of the instrument that can't come from a guitar player no matter how good he is.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 02:31:13 PM by jbaent »
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Offlinedmg

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #160 on: December 27, 2017, 02:30:45 PM »
Alan was very good at some stage of DS's activity. But GF is more versatile

Alan was good at synthetizers as well, but MK needed someone capable to program a synclavier, that was pretty new at the time, and Guy was clever enough to learn how to do it when in Roxy Music, and that gave him the job with MK.

As a musician, Alan is far better, but a co-worker, Guy suits better MK demands. Probably Alan would try to push the music ahead, Guy would do just what MK wants or suggest just what he knows MK would agree.

What we call a "yes man."

_________

Also, I've got to agree with Dusty regarding just how much influence AC has had on DS music and how much better he is than GF.  Speculation to say the very least.  If Mark is the strict boss we assume he is - the fall-outs back this up - then I doubt that he'd allow AC to compose major parts of his songs.

__________

Also, the last time they played together was the masterclass session in 1998 I think so they still spoke well after the OES tour.  There was also the Swan Hunter thing in 1993 where he took GF's place in the Hillbillies line-up.  So something happened between '98 and '02...

« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 02:42:37 PM by dmg »
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OfflineEddie Fox

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #161 on: December 27, 2017, 03:41:22 PM »
Alan was an outstanding musician. Highly creative with incredible technique and knowledge. I think he simply didn’t move on and got bitter instead of paving his own way outside DS. He had the skills and the name but chose another path. Now I see him in those interviews and he sounds pathetically delusional.

It’s a shame cos as a musician he was largely superior to GF.
How do we know all this?

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Well, what did Alan get up to after 1992 and before his tribute band? A world class musician like him? If he was to be credited as a songwriter for many DS songs as he claims why didn’t he start another band 20 years ago to prove his point? It’s all there.
But that's my point, how do we know that he was incredibly creative and talented and came up with all these great arrangements himself? And what are we basing the opinion that he is better than GF on?

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I base my opinion on live performances mainly. But as jbaent said, GF is the perfect fit these days.
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OfflineEddie Fox

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #162 on: December 27, 2017, 03:49:13 PM »
Funny how ‘Alan is a world class musician’, ‘Alan was highly creative and possesses brilliant technique’, ‘Alan is superior to Guy’ and other down to earth statements suddenly become ‘Alan was the musical genius behind all great stuff DS released’ in the eye of some people. Jeez... and who the hell is worshipping Alan and belittling Mark and Guy? Honestly, calm down, folks lol
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Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #163 on: December 27, 2017, 03:54:44 PM »
Even based on live performances, I don't think AC plays anything that amazing. End of TOL, yes, but he is just copying Roy Bittan.

Jim Cox and Matt Rollings are technically better musicians in my opinion...

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OfflinePensaGhost

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Re: 3 Chord Trick (Legacy)
« Reply #164 on: December 27, 2017, 04:09:38 PM »
MK plays the keyboards well too, he just likes the guitar more

According to Mimmo Carrata who has more knowledge than all us put together, MK wrote all the piano/keyboards arrangements and AC
didn't create anything of his own during the DS

Word of ghost.

My bet is that's Mimmo opinion as well. I know musicians whose opinion is that most of that piano/keyboards parts and arrangements needs of a knowledge of the instrument that can't come from a guitar player no matter how good he is.

1) That theory doesn't work when you have a genius composing

2) MK knows how to play the piano
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