Produced by Guy Fletcher

[dustyvalentino]

Isn't this basically the "tour moaning" discussion all over again? What was the ruling by the moderators on that? Let the moaning few moan until their faces turn blue?

Excellent point, I can't remember, and I was on the other side of the fence on that one so it's entirely possible I am being an absolute hypocrite on this.

One difference there as far as I can see is that the criticism wasn't of the opinion itself but more that the same opinion was repeated over and over again for months.

Don't think that can be levelled here when the record isn't even out yet 

[hunter]

Isn't this basically the "tour moaning" discussion all over again? What was the ruling by the moderators on that? Let the moaning few moan until their faces turn blue?

Excellent point, I can't remember, and I was on the other side of the fence on that one so it's entirely possible I am being an absolute hypocrite on this.

One difference there as far as I can see is that the criticism wasn't of the opinion itself but more that the same opinion was repeated over and over again for months.

Don't think that can be levelled here when the record isn't even out yet 

The album is not out yet, but the repeated negativity is quite overwhelming so far, and this is what I and others take issue with.

[Love Expresso]

It's actually not. It's only felt.

LE

[jbaent]

Isn't this basically the "tour moaning" discussion all over again? What was the ruling by the moderators on that? Let the moaning few moan until their faces turn blue?

Excellent point, I can't remember, and I was on the other side of the fence on that one so it's entirely possible I am being an absolute hypocrite on this.

One difference there as far as I can see is that the criticism wasn't of the opinion itself but more that the same opinion was repeated over and over again for months.

Don't think that can be levelled here when the record isn't even out yet 

The album is not out yet, but the repeated negativity is quite overwhelming so far, and this is what I and others take issue with.

Beeeee beeeee beeeee

[quizzaciously]

Beeeee beeeee beeeee

What have I done

(This was pretty hilarious though, thanks, this thread made my day for the third time)

[dustyvalentino]

Jbaent with the sting in the tale.

[wakeywakey]

It's surprising the incapacity of this forum to accept any opinion who is not positive.

Really surprising and sad. Only sheeps would do such a thing.

Guys, are you sheeps?

Accept negative opinions the same way you accept positive. There is no black or white. It's all layers of greys...

The problem with being solely negative about the new album is:
1-He hasn't heard it all(or even most.)
2-All but two songs the sound quality has been poor.There is a reason why so much time and money is spent in the studio making the album.
3-Nobody wants to deal with a troll when something they are really looking forward to is only days away from release.
If after listening to the whole album the same person only has negative comments and can be constructive in their reasoning then fair enough.
However I find this highly unlikely/improbable.
So no bleating here just someone who doesn't want to be,seemingly,trolled.

[quizzaciously]

The problem with being solely negative about the new album is:
1-He hasn't heard it all(or even most.)
2-All but two songs the sound quality has been poor.There is a reason why so much time and money is spent in the studio making the album.
3-Nobody wants to deal with a troll when something they are really looking forward to is only days away from release.
If after listening to the whole album the same person only has negative comments and can be constructive in their reasoning then fair enough.
However I find this highly unlikely/improbable.
So no bleating here just someone who doesn't want to be,seemingly,trolled.

Do you know what trolling is? This is trolling:

[jbaent]

It's surprising the incapacity of this forum to accept any opinion who is not positive.

Really surprising and sad. Only sheeps would do such a thing.

Guys, are you sheeps?

Accept negative opinions the same way you accept positive. There is no black or white. It's all layers of greys...

The problem with being solely negative about the new album is:
1-He hasn't heard it all(or even most.)
2-All but two songs the sound quality has been poor.There is a reason why so much time and money is spent in the studio making the album.
3-Nobody wants to deal with a troll when something they are really looking forward to is only days away from release.
If after listening to the whole album the same person only has negative comments and can be constructive in their reasoning then fair enough.
However I find this highly unlikely/improbable.
So no bleating here just someone who doesn't want to be,seemingly,trolled.

The problem is that anyone has to respect others opinions.

So respect Quizzy opinion and stop moaning about it.

If you don't like his opinion, be constructive and expose your reason, but respect his freedom of have a different opinion.

Is so simple that it's hard to understand why you don't get it.

Period.

[Pottel]

It's surprising the incapacity of this forum to accept any opinion who is not positive.

Really surprising and sad. Only sheeps would do such a thing.

Guys, are you sheeps?

Accept negative opinions the same way you accept positive. There is no black or white. It's all layers of greys...

The problem with being solely negative about the new album is:
1-He hasn't heard it all(or even most.)
2-All but two songs the sound quality has been poor.There is a reason why so much time and money is spent in the studio making the album.
3-Nobody wants to deal with a troll when something they are really looking forward to is only days away from release.
If after listening to the whole album the same person only has negative comments and can be constructive in their reasoning then fair enough.
However I find this highly unlikely/improbable.
So no bleating here just someone who doesn't want to be,seemingly,trolled.

The problem is that anyone has to respect others opinions.

So respect Quizzy opinion and stop moaning about it.

If you don't like his opinion, be constructive and expose your reason, but respect his freedom of have a different opinion.

Is so simple that it's hard to understand why you don't get it.

Period.

this is a forum, you will not always agree, so indeed, respect each one's opinions, or leave (not saying you have to! just saying, if you have an issue with an opinion, that we, as long as it is not racist or insulting someone in person, will not delete, then all you can do is leave, or grudge a bit in a corner and come back once you are ready for it.)

[Rail King]

I've been away from the forum for a couple of days, but feel like defending Pavel here. The fact that he's so critical of what Mark does only proves how much he cares about (and generally loves) his music. Mark should and will be happy to have such dedicated fans.

Pavel's main point - production ruining Mark's songs - is interesting regardless of whether you agree or not. I've had an issue with Guy Fletcher's influence ever since he came on board in 1985 (well, at least in retrospect, as I was still in kindergarten at the time). I generally think that Guy's approach to music doesn't blend well with Mark's. Pavel is right, it's not about the songs - they were and are always top notch -, but when it comes to how Mark's albums sound, my favourite moments always were the ones when Guy was almost or completely absent: the first Dire Straits albums, many songs on his solo albums, the whole of Shangri-La. Guy is a talented keyboard player, and he sure is useful with all kinds of things, but generally I totally agree with Pavel: Mark would be better off without him.

That said, I disagree with Pavel (yes, and it's NOT a problem!) on a couple of things:

1. For me, Guy's negative influence didn't start in 2012, but, as I said, in 1985. From all of Mark's albums, Brother in Arms is probably the one I like the least in terms of production. Things generally got better with Mark's solo career, as he was going for a warmer, more «organic» sound. Privateering, for example, was rather unharmed by Guy in my opinion (some exceptions like the tragically overproduced title song aside, as LE pointed out).

2. Things didn't get much worse with the change in production duties from Chuck Ainlay to Guy, in my opinion. A lot of the songs on Golden Heart, for example, are among the worst production-wise. I remember how I hated that sound back then. I'm not sure whether Chuck actually supported the super cheesy synths on this album, or the MOR sound of Darling Pretty, but he surely didn't do much to prevent them. Overall, I like the sound of Down the Road Wherever much better than that of Golden Heart.

3. I don't understand Pavel's issue with the drum sound in One Song at a Time. Actually, I loved that song right from the start, and the first thing I thought was «what great drums».

4. While I'd generally be the first to welcome Guy's departure (from Mark's studio, that is, don't get me wrong), his influence on some of the new songs (Back on the Dance Floor is the best example) is SO big that even I have to admit that their production approach somehow works. It's as if Guy was kind of smearing his things on otherwise immaculate songs in the past, while here, he's been allowed to operate from the core. To me it seems that IF you allow Guy to go down his road - and again, I think it would be better not to - it's best to let him go all the way. And to then balance those songs out with things like Nobody's Child or Just a Boy, which are pure Mark, the way I love him the most.

[jbaent]

I've been away from the forum for a couple of days, but feel like defending Pavel here. The fact that he's so critical of what Mark does only proves how much he cares about (and generally loves) his music. Mark should and will be happy to have such dedicated fans.

Pavel's main point - production ruining Mark's songs - is interesting regardless of whether you agree or not. I've had an issue with Guy Fletcher's influence ever since he came on board in 1985 (well, at least in retrospect, as I was still in kindergarten at the time). I generally think that Guy's approach to music doesn't blend well with Mark's. Pavel is right, it's not about the songs - they were and are always top notch -, but when it comes to how Mark's albums sound, my favourite moments always were the ones when Guy was almost or completely absent: the first Dire Straits albums, many songs on his solo albums, the whole of Shangri-La. Guy is a talented keyboard player, and he sure is useful with all kinds of things, but generally I totally agree with Pavel: Mark would be better off without him.

That said, I disagree with Pavel (yes, and it's NOT a problem!) on a couple of things:

1. For me, Guy's negative influence didn't start in 2012, but, as I said, in 1985. From all of Mark's albums, Brother in Arms is probably the one I like the least in terms of production. Things generally got better with Mark's solo career, as he was going for a warmer, more «organic» sound. Privateering, for example, was rather unharmed by Guy in my opinion (some exceptions like the tragically overproduced title song aside, as LE pointed out).

2. Things didn't get much worse with the change in production duties from Chuck Ainlay to Guy, in my opinion. A lot of the songs on Golden Heart, for example, are among the worst production-wise. I remember how I hated that sound back then. I'm not sure whether Chuck actually supported the super cheesy synths on this album, or the MOR sound of Darling Pretty, but he surely didn't do much to prevent them. Overall, I like the sound of Down the Road Wherever much better than that of Golden Heart.

3. I don't understand Pavel's issue with the drum sound in One Song at a Time. Actually, I loved that song right from the start, and the first thing I thought was «what great drums».

4. While I'd generally be the first to welcome Guy's departure (from Mark's studio, that is, don't get me wrong), his influence on some of the new songs (Back on the Dance Floor is the best example) is SO big that even I have to admit that their production approach somehow works. It's as if Guy was kind of smearing his things on otherwise immaculate songs in the past, while here, he's been allowed to operate from the core. To me it seems that IF you allow Guy to go down his road - and again, I think it would be better not to - it's best to let him go all the way. And to then balance those songs out with things like Nobody's Child or Just a Boy, which are pure Mark, the way I love him the most.

Thats constructive disagreeing. Well done.

[hunter]

I think you overestimate the power Guy has. If Mark didn't care for his suggestions, they would never have been implemented. Unless Guy uses hypnosis or voodoo, of course.

[quizzaciously]

I've been away from the forum for a couple of days, but feel like defending Pavel here. The fact that he's so critical of what Mark does only proves how much he cares about (and generally loves) his music. Mark should and will be happy to have such dedicated fans.

Pavel's main point - production ruining Mark's songs - is interesting regardless of whether you agree or not. I've had an issue with Guy Fletcher's influence ever since he came on board in 1985 (well, at least in retrospect, as I was still in kindergarten at the time). I generally think that Guy's approach to music doesn't blend well with Mark's. Pavel is right, it's not about the songs - they were and are always top notch -, but when it comes to how Mark's albums sound, my favourite moments always were the ones when Guy was almost or completely absent: the first Dire Straits albums, many songs on his solo albums, the whole of Shangri-La. Guy is a talented keyboard player, and he sure is useful with all kinds of things, but generally I totally agree with Pavel: Mark would be better off without him.

That said, I disagree with Pavel (yes, and it's NOT a problem!) on a couple of things:

1. For me, Guy's negative influence didn't start in 2012, but, as I said, in 1985. From all of Mark's albums, Brother in Arms is probably the one I like the least in terms of production. Things generally got better with Mark's solo career, as he was going for a warmer, more «organic» sound. Privateering, for example, was rather unharmed by Guy in my opinion (some exceptions like the tragically overproduced title song aside, as LE pointed out).

2. Things didn't get much worse with the change in production duties from Chuck Ainlay to Guy, in my opinion. A lot of the songs on Golden Heart, for example, are among the worst production-wise. I remember how I hated that sound back then. I'm not sure whether Chuck actually supported the super cheesy synths on this album, or the MOR sound of Darling Pretty, but he surely didn't do much to prevent them. Overall, I like the sound of Down the Road Wherever much better than that of Golden Heart.

3. I don't understand Pavel's issue with the drum sound in One Song at a Time. Actually, I loved that song right from the start, and the first thing I thought was «what great drums».

4. While I'd generally be the first to welcome Guy's departure (from Mark's studio, that is, don't get me wrong), his influence on some of the new songs (Back on the Dance Floor is the best example) is SO big that even I have to admit that their production approach somehow works. It's as if Guy was kind of smearing his things on otherwise immaculate songs in the past, while here, he's been allowed to operate from the core. To me it seems that IF you allow Guy to go down his road - and again, I think it would be better not to - it's best to let him go all the way. And to then balance those songs out with things like Nobody's Child or Just a Boy, which are pure Mark, the way I love him the most.

Thats constructive disagreeing. Well done.

Can't argue with that

P.S. With drums in One Song At A Time you either like it or not, this is one instance of pretty black and white division. Some like it, others not, I don't know why.

[quizzaciously]

I think you overestimate the power Guy has. If Mark didn't care for his suggestions, they would never have been implemented. Unless Guy uses hypnosis or voodoo, of course.

No need to resort to hypnosis... It's well know that Mark was an autocrat and "perfectionist" in DS, many stories from band members and seemingly perfect production only proves it.

I think what happens is each year MK is going on the side giving others a chance. Let musicians play, let his best business partner (music is also business) Guy to take control.

It's also known that Mark loves Guy because he'd never had a single argument with him as Mark said in one of the interviews. So they just do that they want to do.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but something is telling me that GF is pushing things into more popular and easy listening territory, and I'm afraid of that.