the day that thatcher dies

[vgonis]

http://breadoftruth.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/thatcher-is-dead-thatcher-is-dead-spit-on-her-grave-and-fetch-a-spike-for-her-head/

Any thoughts? Would really like to know what you thought of her, especially people from the UK.

[Lis]

Any thoughts? Would really like to know what you thought of her, especially people from the UK.

Me too! Especially since Mark wrote WAM about the fallout of her economic policies...

[dmg]

She invented Mr Whippy ice cream.

[dmg]

The above post is true actually as she was a chemist!

She was a controversial character for sure and divided opinion.  She will no doubt be unpopular in areas like the north east of England and central Scotland (where I live) due to her closing pits and high unemployment.

However, when she came to power, the UK was on it's knees;  there were strikes everywhere, bins not being emptied, bodies piled up in black bags etc.  It was strikes that killed of the car industry in this country.  She was a great, strong leader and removing powers from the unions was no doubt the right thing to do. 

She was responsible for the end of the Cold War and negotiations between Reagan and Gorbachev.

She handled both The Falklands and the Brighton bombing the way only she could.

Let's not forget what she did for feminism, getting to the top despite all the odds.

I wasn't keen on the privatisation of too many of the public companies.  Just a quick way to raise money by selling assets.

She allowed people to buy their own council homes.  Many people liked this, but IMO this is why there is now a big waiting list to get a council home!

She used Scotland as a testing ground for the Poll Tax - boo!

She stayed too long at the top and got out of touch, became too stubborn and was ousted by members of her own party - quite rightly too.

I feel it's a shame people are always remembered for the bad things they do and not the good.  Let's not forget she was a mother and left two children as well.

P.S.  A BBC newscaster made a gaffe when he announced yesterday that "former prime minister Lady Thatcher had died following a strike."

[superval99]

Thanks for that, dmg - you said all the things I wanted to say, but much better than I ever could have done!   

I will remember her as a very strong PM, who had her faults, as well as doing many good things for the country too!      She just stayed too long and should have stepped down, gracefully, whilst her audience was still clapping!   

[rosco]

She divided a country, The rich became richer and the poor flung on the scrapheap.
She devastated many communities that have still not recovered today.
Her enemy was the working class.
Many people voted for her because she didn't mess about in what she was doing, also the fact that they weren't really affected by her actions or if they were it was for the better BUT many millions were affected very badly by her policies. She decimated communities that had worked in coal mines and other industries for generations and put no help in place whatsoever to help them recover!. People in their 30's 40,s and 50,s never worked again in these places..... there was no work for them .
Her legacy left to them is high unemployment, poverty, high levels of suicide, high levels of depression. She didn't help them in any way...she left these communities to rot. Millions were affected by her policies

Take a poll in places such as Glasgow, Liverpool, South Wales, NE England ,Yorkshire and many other areas of the UK and you will see how much she was admired or liked...These were only some of the areas she attacked.

In other areas where her policies had no adverse affect, she will be championed as the best PM since Churchill.

[ingridswing]

I totally agree with you DMG and Superval. I'm not from the UK but if she didn't became the primeminister at that time, I think it would have taken decades before economy of the the UK would have grown the way it did during her terms

[herlock]

A few thoughts comes from my mind:

- I don't think MK was fan of hers; if you read between the lines the lyrics of "Iron Hand", he makes it quite clear: "The grass so green, the blood so red..."
- When I did my MBA in Switzerland 9 years back, believe me, the faculty there was as far as being communist as physically possible; still, she was far from being an Icon in the School. We had a scottish accounting teacher who was a prominent court expert for the Enron case. He said "she and her boyfriend Ronald Regan were out of their minds. When she said "there is no such thing as society", the irrational exuberance which effects were disastrous began". We had a german economy teacher, a real star in this field, who told us (even though he was driving a Porshe) than Adam Smith would have been horrified to see what Maggy said and did in his name; he reminded us that Adam Smith's doctrine was not only about the invisible hand of the market, but also about a strong state and "the brother in my breast", that is to say, ethics which is necessary for the capitalist system no to be abusive...

Still, remains a courageous and charismatic leader, who impressed even her strongest ennemies. Socialist French President Mitterand despised most people, but had huge admiration for Maggy....

[rosco]

I totally agree with you DMG and Superval. I'm not from the UK but if she didn't became the primeminister at that time, I think it would have taken decades before economy of the the UK would have grown the way it did during her terms

Midway through her terms she oversaw 2 major recessions, the biggest since the great depression of the 30's. She also oversaw the record high in interest rates(17%)..still holds to this day. She also was in charge mid way through her reign when the UK had its record high for unemployment of 12%..stills holds to this day. Even after the recessions were finished unemployment was still rising. Also during her terms the pay gap between men and women widened considerably,  oh and she called Mandela a terrorist .
I think MK had Thatcher sized up pretty good. I remember him doing an interview in the early 90's where he was quite animated  and angry regarding her policies.
Britain needed to change but not the way she did it. She unleashed misery and heartache on thousands upon thousands of families.

[dmg]

I totally agree with you DMG and Superval. I'm not from the UK but if she didn't became the primeminister at that time, I think it would have taken decades before economy of the the UK would have grown the way it did during her terms

Midway through her terms she oversaw 2 major recessions, the biggest since the great depression of the 30's. She also oversaw the record high in interest rates(17%)..still holds to this day. She also was in charge mid way through her reign when the UK had its record high for unemployment of 12%..stills holds to this day. Even after the recessions were finished unemployment was still rising. Also during her terms the pay gap between men and women widened considerably,  oh and she called Mandela a terrorist .
I think MK had Thatcher sized up pretty good. I remember him doing an interview in the early 90's where he was quite animated  and angry regarding her policies.
Britain needed to change but not the way she did it. She unleashed misery and heartache on thousands upon thousands of families.

Mandela was a terrorist.  He was head of the terrorist wing of the ANC who planted bombs in various places such as Johannesburg railway station, killing innocent people.  Co-incidently the name of this wing UmKhonto we Sizwe is abbreviated to the letters MK...

[Pottel]

right, mark also wrote iron hand "because" of here, right?

[vgonis]

dmg, thank you for your comment about Thatcher. Made me think harder. Still, I find her actions questionable to say the least.  And to no avail, as it turn out. 

Chomsky tries to pin point the difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist. Some times history is the only tool of judgement, but since it is written by the winners it may be flawed. And this is exactly the case with some "democracies" all over the world. They represent only a minority of the total population and they use every tool provided by the constitution (which sometimes they have constructed) in order to prevent any kind of change towards a true democracy. In these cases fighting is the only way and the "official" government is bound to characterize the fighters as terrorists. It is a thin line to walk in the beginning, but you have to be able to make up your mind, if these fighters fight for the logical, lawful and just. Sometimes the "official" law is neither just or logical.  And sometimes to get justice you might do things that are not logical.   

But this is another talk altogether.

[rosco]

I totally agree with you DMG and Superval. I'm not from the UK but if she didn't became the primeminister at that time, I think it would have taken decades before economy of the the UK would have grown the way it did during her terms

Midway through her terms she oversaw 2 major recessions, the biggest since the great depression of the 30's. She also oversaw the record high in interest rates(17%)..still holds to this day. She also was in charge mid way through her reign when the UK had its record high for unemployment of 12%..stills holds to this day. Even after the recessions were finished unemployment was still rising. Also during her terms the pay gap between men and women widened considerably,  oh and she called Mandela a terrorist .
I think MK had Thatcher sized up pretty good. I remember him doing an interview in the early 90's where he was quite animated  and angry regarding her policies.
Britain needed to change but not the way she did it. She unleashed misery and heartache on thousands upon thousands of families.

Mandela was a terrorist. 

WOW!!
Even our current PM David Cameron has branded "Thatcher wrong for branding Mandela and the ANC terrorists"  also describing him as "one of the greatest men alive today"
 He coordinated a sabotage campaign against military and government targets, and made plans for a possible guerrilla war if sabotage failed to end apartheid. He was arrested in 1962 and convicted in 1964 for sabotage. Mandela was in jail when any bombings took place.
William Wallace must have been a terrorist as well in your view!!!! 

[Roland Dent]

Sold off state assets at cheap prices...empowered a new social class..trash with cash.  Began a civil war in the UK. Britain became a sort of Stalinist place except a mirror image.  Total rape of social care..overpaid the police.  Police no longer knew what their job was....property came before people.  If people had cash they were good..if people had no cash they were easy targets.

[vgonis]

Sold off state assets at cheap prices...empowered a new social class..trash with cash.  Began a civil war in the UK. Britain became a sort of Stalinist place except a mirror image.  Total rape of social care..overpaid the police.  Police no longer knew what their job was....property came before people.  If people had cash they were good..if people had no cash they were easy targets.

Dear Roland Dent, this must be a coincidence of major proportions. I am reading again the collective volume of the Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy and just today,  I came to the scene where Trillian, Zarniwoop and Zaphod go to visit the ruler of the universe. In a most interesting dialogue, that ends with these exact words:
Zarniwoop: " You don't understand that what you decide ...affects the lives and fates of millions of people?..."
Ruler:  "I don't know, I've never met all these people you speak of... They only exist in words we hear. It is folly to say you know what is happening to other people. Only they know, if they exist (!) They have their own universe of their eyes and ears"

Even though Trillian and Zaphod consider that the Universe is in good hands, I couldn't help but think that this attitude towards the world resembled the Thatcher way of thinking, that if you don't see them, they don't exist. And that the book was written about the same time.


And there is another hero called Arthur Dent!

And the same thing happens to Greece from politicians that obviously were tought by Thatcher's lessons. Selling Greece by the pound. 


And if you haven't read it, you should really try it. It may be the funniest book at a resonable price, with a sci-fi plot, a philosophical back-bone,  written by a man that has guested at  a Monty Python's flying circus episode, (both as a writer and an actor) has played with Pink Floyd and given the name "Division bell" to their last studio album, and has loads of references in his books (or similar themes-depends on how you look at it) with/for both Monty python and Pink Floyd.

And two quotes from his book to see how funny and/or serious he can be:
"An animal that thinks that if you can't see it, it can't see you either" 
"...the job of the galactic President was not to wield power but to attract attention away from it."