A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Love Expresso on May 21, 2010, 09:14:52 PM
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...it's just that we all move on and this band is BY FAR the best band I've ever been involved with. What is more, we keep improving. This is important. We were all younger then, and it was a long time ago. If you don't improve, what's the point of being a musician?
This is what Guy wrote in his forum today, asked about Dire Straits and his sometimes harsh reaction to those questions. Got me thinking and I was about to ask him this question, but I am far from getting a harsh answer, so I ask it here: Do you think Mark Knopfler really is evolving with this band? Is he putting new stuff, I mean really new stuff to his catalogue (a new instrument like the cittern is not what I really mean here...). In my opinion Mark's compositions get more and more irrelevant. A lot of stuff is an echo of older songs, and there is nothing really new. How fresh was On Every Street, even if it had the so-called "conservative" country elements, but hey, those songs had a totally other caliber. Again in my opinion, since 2002 Mark is standing still. The same band, the same "pants", more or less, and songs getting shorter and shorter and sound more and more similar. The meaning of Mark Knopfler in my life is fading more and more sadly I must report.
Maybe this post is a little bit risky in the middle of this tour where everybody is excited and looking forward to see him. But Guy is giving the same answer every time, and I just want to ask: Where exactly IS the evolution?
A remarkable part of the AMIT members is obviously thinking that we all can be grateful that he is still touring, and that he also could say he doesn't bother with this stuff anymore, and I respect that opinion, of course. And of course I wish him all the best and think he is a friendly and likeable person, but nevertheless it should be allowed to ask questions about the content and quality of his art, compared to his own high standards from 30 years of composing.
What do you think?
LE
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What I think is, first of all, that your post is courageous. Not very politically correct, but as trouble-maker frenchman, I can respect that. Seems like yelling "God does not exist" in the church during service ;)
Now, talking about the evolution....
GH was the transition album.
STP was the almost-come-back of Dire Straits sound.
TRD was the liberation: maybe the best album ever done. Courageous, intimate, building on the Dire Straits qualities but being totally free from them.
SL & KTGC were... maybe the most difficult part - how to renew yourself without being accused of writing the same song 20 times ?
GL was the ultimate evolution, a great synthesis of MK's career. BR is almost on par with SoS; Piper to the End has almost nothing to envy to BiA. When I heard it for the first time I almost cried...
Think about it - how many 60 years artists are able to release one quality album every 2 years ??
The only think MK has yet to achieve, to me, is to produce a prog song on par with TG, and a rock song on par with ToL...
Long live MK ! He has changed my life.
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LE - You say the meaning of Mark Knopfler in your life is fading more and more, while I can only say, honestly, the meaning of MK in MY life is becoming more and more vibrant and this couldn't have been confirmed more than when I saw him in Dublin with his amazing band, who are all master musicians themselves!
I find, I listen to MK's solo work these days far more than the Strait's material, because I enjoy it more - it's that simple! :)
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i get your drift LE. but besides the fact that i find it a pity that he does not do more for his biggest fans, like varying the setlists and releasing more b-sides, and live material and shit, i am really convinced that he is only getting better, except that KTGC was a bad hickup in an otherwise impressive career.
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Agree fully with you Pottel about KTGC... But funny enough, there are one or two songs on it that I think I could call "development" - In The Sky and
The Fish And The Bird...
Of course I still have my two shows in front of me and will probably re-think my opinion after those shows. But Guy's attitude in this case made a little...
fierce and I really thought this over... You know, not everything in those good old times was bad, whereas every tour with Guy as a member was the best so far, in his opinion... ;)
LE
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Actually KTGC, to me, is underrated. Even by MK himself - the album is only second to Communiqu
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I think I agree with most of what you said LE.
Being a person that cares much more about the music than lyrics, I have to say the thing that disappoints me the most are the music compositions. We don't get any longer live versions with new arrangements. Last tour we even got SHORTER versions (What It Is,...) with left out solos! This was unthinkable in earlier years. Then there are these little pieces like imho the decline of Sultans (haven't listened to the current tour yet), less and less rock&roll, almost the same setlist every tour. Music-wise speaking, I don't like the direction where MK is going.
I rarely listen to newer albums like SL, K2GC, GL and tours. Thank god for (mostly DS) bootlegs.
Don't kill me for the next sentence, but maybe MK should take a break, for say 3-4 years and then come back full of energy, with great setlist and arrangements. Just like during the 1996 tour. But he is older now, so it wouldn't work probably.
Like Pottel said it is a pitty that he doesn't do more for his biggest fans, and also for regular fans. I don't now if it is PCM or whoever, but what was this mess with the release of the GL album and the left out songs?? Also, Alchemy has been remixed, but not released on audio CDs. Would that be such a problem?? It has come to my mind many times, that how would it look like if MK had a YES-like (speaking of a band) attitude?? They have released so much material, b-sides, demos, never released version with remixed albums, live concerts, you name it...
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Being a person that cares much more about the music than lyrics, I have to say the thing that disappoints me the most are the music compositions. We don't get any longer live versions with new arrangements. Last tour we even got SHORTER versions (What It Is,...) with left out solos! This was unthinkable in earlier years. Then there are these little pieces like imho the decline of Sultans (haven't listened to the current tour yet), less and less rock&roll, almost the same setlist every tour. Music-wise speaking, I don't like the direction where MK is going.
Don't kill me for the next sentence, but maybe MK should take a break, for say 3-4 years and then come back full of energy, with great setlist and arrangements.
L
This is very well spoken my point. And by your leave, herlock, you are also put it into great words. However, "great sounding" is not what I am after.
That is just craftmanship in my opinion. Making Movies is surely not "great sounding" compared with RPD, SL or GL, but I prefer this kind of really "authentic" sound to the polished ones. God, I wish he would do an album like "Rattle & Hum" or "Time Out Of Mind" . But as I said, that might get another thread.
Calling Elvis 1996: Take the Vaison version, totally unique build-up, great key changes in it, really improvising. Or TOl 1991... there were some musical thoughts about it. Now he seems to aim for the perfect reproduction of the album version on stage. Once recorded, so played forever. We are happy with every little change like the 2008 intro of TLWNF. And a "stolen" Ry Cooder riff seems to be the only musical suprise this tour?? But i won't get too
negative. These are just illustrations to my point of view. And the break of the 2-year-release-schedule would do him very good probably, no doubt.
LE
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I can understand where you are coming from, re the "decline of Sultans", for instance. Yes, I would rather listening to the Alchemy version than to the current ones. I also don't like too much the new Telegraph Road - compared to 96 versions.
Yes, but....
Mark is 60.
And I take it as a good thing that he is not pretending to be 30 - as the Rolling Stones do, with the high risk of being pathetic.
Without saying it, Mark acknowledges his age, and also his eclectic musical roots.
Actually, he was never much of a rocker. This is MK, not The Who... even at the peak of his energy level, remember the Monthy Python describing Alchemy as some king of sleeping pill (!). If you want pure Rock & Roll... that's not what it is about. That was already not the case for "Brothers in Arms": 2 up tempo songs on the album, the other 7 are melancholic.., yet, it sold 30 million units.
Now look at the bright side: one album release every 2 years - who else does that ? No new expanded live version ? what do you say of "Hill Farmer's Blues ?" a B-side song turned into a classic ! in a pure Alchemy tradition !
Ok, MK is not commerrcially orientated; he does not release a lot of DVDs and stuff; would I like one "Anthology" Blu-Ray ? oh, certainly. But am I going to like MK less because his live music is rare ? oh, certainly not. Quite one the contrary :)
Go and watch again the RLRR DVD, and tell me that this is not a great live show, with both energetic songs (Speedway) and sweet ones (I dug up a diamond)...
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I do agree very much with one criticism, though - I am currently listening (again) to the new Alchemy sound mix on Blu-ray, and I think it is a real CRIME not to have released it on CDs !!
And I agree with TOL 91 - nothing can be compared to that. Not even the Alchemy version that I am currently watching. Great, but not divine as the 91 version...
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I can understand where you are coming from, re the "decline of Sultans", for instance. Yes, I would rather listening to the Alchemy version than to the current ones. I also don't like too much the new Telegraph Road - compared to 96 versions.
Yes, but....
Mark is 60.
And I take it as a good thing that he is not pretending to be 30 - as the Rolling Stones do, with the high risk of being pathetic.
Without saying it, Mark acknowledges his age, and also his eclectic musical roots.
Actually, he was never much of a rocker. This is MK, not The Who... even at the peak of his energy level, remember the Monthy Python describing Alchemy as some king of sleeping pill (!). If you want pure Rock & Roll... that's not what it is about. That was already not the case for "Brothers in Arms": 2 up tempo songs on the album, the other 7 are melancholic.., yet, it sold 30 million units.
Now look at the bright side: one album release every 2 years - who else does that ? No new expanded live version ? what do you say of "Hill Farmer's Blues ?" a B-side song turned into a classic ! in a pure Alchemy tradition !
Ok, MK is not commerrcially orientated; he does not release a lot of DVDs and stuff; would I like one "Anthology" Blu-Ray ? oh, certainly. But am I going to like MK less because his live music is rare ? oh, certainly not. Quite one the contrary :)
Go and watch again the RLRR DVD, and tell me that this is not a great live show, with both energetic songs (Speedway) and sweet ones (I dug up a diamond)...
Yes, I know that it is not going to be as it was because of age and I am glad that he is not like Rolling stones.
I am also glad that he is not The Who, man I really don't like pete townsend jumping around the stage making those noises.
Well I want pure MK Rock&Roll :) You right, it certainly is not about it anymore, that's exactly my point. I was speaking of tours mainly, the albums were never about too much rock&roll. But earlier concerts had had a couple of "lighter" songs and the rest was more or less r&r. But now the ratio is being turned around.
Well, hehe, never knew Monthy Python described Alchemy as some king of sleeping pill :) Good thing it was a comedy.
You're right, I forgot about HFB. But if MK hadn't had that crash, this version would have likely been played in 2003.
Yeah MK releases an album every two years, but what good is it me, if I hardly listen to it?
I wasn't really speaking of live music being rare, because at least it is documented by bootlegs, so I don't think his live music is rare. I meant mainly demos, b-sides, never released tracks. And to me, audio is much more valuable than video and "DVDs and stuff".
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I do agree very much with one criticism, though - I am currently listening (again) to the new Alchemy sound mix on Blu-ray, and I think it is a real CRIME not to have released it on CDs !!
And I agree with TOL 91 - nothing can be compared to that. Not even the Alchemy version that I am currently watching. Great, but not divine as the 91 version...
Me personally, I don't like the 91 version. It is too "romantic" imho. And Terry W. is missing on drums... I love his style.
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Me personally, I don't like the 91 version. It is too "romantic" imho. And Terry W. is missing on drums... I love his style.
Well, yes, it is romantic, that's precisely what I love about it :) I also prefer Terry W. to Chris Witten on drums, but drums is not what ToL is all about ;)
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Well I want pure MK Rock&Roll :) You right, it certainly is not about it anymore, that's exactly my point. I was speaking of tours mainly, the albums were never about too much rock&roll. But earlier concerts had had a couple of "lighter" songs and the rest was more or less r&r. But now the ratio is being turned around.
Well, a similar move than David Gilmour I guess; At first I was as shocked by the new "Shine On You, Crazy Diamond" being so quiet, as the new Telegraph Road. But I have come to like it. And "Echoes" is so fantastic :) but the whole thing scaled down, has become quieter and more intimate. Somehow I find "Live in Gdansk" more touching than "P.U.L.S.E". Oh well...
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I can't comment on that, because I don't have it. I mean I don't have any DG solo stuff (just some 1984 bootlegs and of course PF). He plays Echoes again? I thought it was last played on the MLOR tour...
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"Echoes" was revived for the 2006 "On a Island tour". A fantastic version indeed, very well documented on "Live in Gdansk" and "Remember that Night" DVD, which I almost prefer to Pompeii ! I will most certainly not played again, because of Rick Wright's death - Dave said he will not play it without him. Sad, sad... but a good example of a great song being revived after 20 years (Mark, if you read this... TOL is your "echoes" ! :d)
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Have to agree with all you said Love Expresso (except i think OES was the first backwards step) - now that Alchemy has been released the new holy grail would be a box set of outtakes in the style of Bob Dylans.
I know its not popular opinion here, but i take it as a slap in the face that DS questions and wishes are treated with such disdain by GF & MK. Its only logical that if you`ve sold millions of albums you are going to get more questions and enquiries about that era than your latest lot of celtic sleepy songs!
Fair enough that the official line is they "don`t want to look backwards" but why oppose any queries from fans along these lines ? Grumpy Old Men (I thnk i am too) ! ;D
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IMHO, MK has reached maturity lyrically, musically and vocally. Just like Val, his music has become so much more significant in my life. Mark's music impact me on every level of my existence. As much as I love and long for those remarkable DS years, I found myself immerse in his solo work more and more. You can almost relate to his songs in every aspect. He is the most talented song writer ever.
He's very unpretentious in his playing. You can feel the passion emanates from his voice, and his guitar work. Just everything about Mark is so powerful. It empowers you yet it can be hurtful. Because you just can never seem to have enough of him.
So, yes, Mark has evolved and will continue to do so. He casts his magic and touches soooo many lives. And we are all LUCKY to get a chance to ride along with his incredible talents. I'm so very grateful !
I agreed with herlock on KTGC. In the beginning it got the least play time, as I listen to it more and more , I discovered so many gems on this album, I can almost safely say that it's one of the best. With the exception of 2 songs in this album that don't quite do it for me. "True Love will never fade" and "the fish and the bird" No offense to those who love these 2 songs.
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One thing I find interesting about this these type of discussions when it comes to MK is that there is never any consensus one way or the other. There are some fans here that feel (and will feel) that he has evolved while others think (and will think) he hasn't and prefer earlier material. This is very different for others artists. It may not be the best example, but for say for Bruce Springsteen- the majority of his fans prefer his earlier work over his later albums such as "Working on a Dream" or "Magic" or his work with the "The Seeger Sessions" band.
Personally, I think MK has evolved over time but perhaps not to everyone's liking and not in the way that you would expect it. If you listen to "Shangri-La" and "Get Lucky" one after the other, it will become apparent that they are very different albums. As I've said before, I never cared much for "Kill to Get Crimson". For the first time ever, lyrically, I thought there were some "rough" songs on there like "The Fish and the Bird" or "In the Sky". At that time, I really started to wonder what direction MK was going in and began listening to other bands more and more that were writing music that I could relate to. But then "Get Lucky" came about, and IMO, it's one of his best.
Lastly, I just want to mention that it's become clear over time that MK enjoys recording and playing the music he wants to and being somewhat distant from the fans. Like it or not, when it comes to MK, that's all you're going to get. And don't dare mention that multi-platinum selling band named Dire Straits. It's just the 16,000 pound elephant in the room. Just check out how much publicity the new Alchemy DVD got...
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I think this is all about personal choice,obviously everyone has their own point of view on the route that MK 's music has gone,you either like it or you dont.Ok,he now plays in venues that would be lucky to hold the gear for DS in the the good old days the question being " is that the way that he wants it"???He always said that DS got too big so if you ask me he is'nt bothered by the smaller venues or smaller crowds as he is now trying something that he has wanted to do for years & its up to us whether we go with it or not!!! Obviously he has to see that his fan base has dwindled over the past 10 years,there was approx ,7000 at the Dublin gig on Wednesday so it wasnt a sell out, Belfast is only 100 miles up the road the following night so that was going to take a few people but that wasnt a sell out either - fair enough week days dont suit everyone but that wouldnt happen 20 years ago!!!
I went to see the Police 2 years ago in a 80,000 capacity stadium & there was probably 50,000 people there, now if you asked me would DS get 50,000 people into a stadium here in Ireland if the reformed for a reunion tour - not a hope in hell,they would be lucky to get 20,000.I know guys that wouldnt cross the road to see MK,not to mind paying thousands of
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Just a short reply...
STP was fantastic and RPD has grown to almost the same status. Shangri-La and KTGC were both very, very weak. I was almost drifting away from Mark at that time.
But, GL is much better. The arrangements are full of life, the songs are better and there is more energy. I really like it. As for the tours, same old, same old. What worries me most is Mark's weaker guitar playing on stage.
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Just a short reply...
What worries me most is Mark's weaker guitar playing on stage.
If you had seen him in Dublin, you certainly wouldn't say that! He played the best and sang the best I have EVER heard! Maybe you will change your mind when your time comes. BTW I love "Shangri-La", along with RPD and Get Lucky it is my favourite album! :)
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I haw heard quite a few songs from this tour and generally he seems to play better than during KTGC tour, which was by far his weakes period ever.
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I haw heard quite a few songs from this tour and generally he seems to play better than during KTGC tour, which was by far his weakes period ever.
Hearing a few recordings is nothing compared to hearing him play live, but they are better than nothing, I suppose. Live, he blows me away and nobody else does that for me! :)
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I haw heard quite a few songs from this tour and generally he seems to play better than during KTGC tour, which was by far his weakes period ever.
That's exactly what I think too. I heard a few concerts on the KtGC tour (four I think) and, so far only one on this tour which happened to be last night, but last night in Glasgow his playing was simply sublime and far better than any of last tours' concerts I attended. It seems he has fallen back in love with the guitar again. :)
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Just a short reply...
STP was fantastic and RPD has grown to almost the same status. Shangri-La and KTGC were both very, very weak. I was almost drifting away from Mark at that time.
But, GL is much better. The arrangements are full of life, the songs are better and there is more energy. I really like it. As for the tours, same old, same old. What worries me most is Mark's weaker guitar playing on stage.
I tend to agree with that: STP is kind of a DS revival, while TRD is kind of NHB revival; GL is good synthesis between the 2, a good career summary. SL and KTGC are the most difficult to approach, although they are quality album. And to me SL is even more difficult. Can't understand why it was advertised as "his most rocking album since DS". STP deservees this statement, not SL. Even the single, BLT, is good but really dry. But on each MK album there is at least one song that makes me melt. On SL it's call Postcards from Paraguay... on KTGC it's called Punish the Monkey :)
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I haw heard quite a few songs from this tour and generally he seems to play better than during KTGC tour, which was by far his weakes period ever.
Hearing a few recordings is nothing compared to hearing him play live, but they are better than nothing, I suppose. Live, he blows me away and nobody else does that for me! :)
I see what you mean and of course bootlegs don't have perfect sound but we can hear him hitting (or missing) those notes rather clearly. What I'm saying is that it's hard to be objective when you attend a live show because you're caught up in the moment. That's fine, but his playing is, technically speaking, clearly inferior compared to, say, 2005. And only a few songs force him to really work at it these days, live. But the seating seems to be a good thing in this regard.
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Tallgren, MK always hit or missed notes, especially in the early days. Some of those early recordings were terrible with lots of wrong or clumsily played notes. He is playing much better these days imo, but 2005 was no better than any of the concerts I have downloaded from this tour.
OK, I may be carried away with the moment, but that's what concert-going is all about - enjoying the moment and I certainly enjoyed Dublin and I'm sure it will be the same for my next three concerts. Perhaps that's why MK really doesn't like us videoing - he wants us to enjoy the moment, without any post-mortems. Too much analysis is not good - just enjoy the precious time we have at the gig! :)
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MK always hit or missed notes, especially in the early days.
For example? I don't remember hearing any, but would really like to listen to them...:) Any specific bootleg or song?
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Well, you don't seriously think he was note-perfect all the time, do you? Just listen to Rockpalast and the Arena programme - there were some mistakes, but that doesn't matter, I still loved what he was doing at that time, but nobody's perfect - even MK and he did make mistakes in the past the same as now! I just happen to enjoy his playing more these days, even though, horror of horrors, there may be some mistakes heard on a bootleg! He's only human you know! ;)
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Well, you don't seriously think he was note-perfect all the time, do you? Just listen to Rockpalast and the Arena programme - there were some mistakes, but that doesn't matter, I still loved what he was doing at that time, but nobody's perfect - even MK and he did make mistakes in the past the same as now! I just happen to enjoy his playing more these days, even though, horror of horrors, there may be some mistakes heard on a bootleg! He's only human you know! ;)
Hehe, well of course I don't, nobody's perfect. I just probably didn't like the "especially in the early days" part, imho K2GC was worse than any early days. But just like you said it doesn't really matter.
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Seriously, I'm sure most of us started to listen to Mark partly because he's an incredibly gifted guitar player. While I agree that he still has the touch and can achieve sounds today that he could not 25 years ago when he was still inexperienced with distorted guitars, there's hardly any reason debating that he was technically a much better player up to 2005. His playing now is slower and he misses more notes. Sultans is but a shadow of what it once was.
And it's just not about greenies, the problem is that you can hear him struggling, sliding over notes and barely making it. I suppose his style is very demanding; it has that "perfect" quality when you're up to it because of the special style, but it sounds much weaker as soon as you hesitate.
And again, of course you should enjoy the live shows but it's only in hindsight that you can judge the actual quality of the playing.
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Seriously, I'm sure most of us started to listen to Mark partly because he's an incredibly gifted guitar player. While I agree that he still has the touch and can achieve sounds today that he could not 25 years ago when he was still inexperienced with distorted guitars, there's hardly any reason debating that he was technically a much better player up to 2005. His playing now is slower and he misses more notes. Sultans is but a shadow of what it once was.
And it's just not about greenies, the problem is that you can hear him struggling, sliding over notes and barely making it. I suppose his style is very demanding; it has that "perfect" quality when you're up to it because of the special style, but it sounds much weaker as soon as you hesitate.
And again, of course you should enjoy the live shows but it's only in hindsight that you can judge the actual quality of the playing.
I've often thought about this too to myself and it being really just a matter of accuracy in his playing decreasing as his years are increasing! Perhaps this was the reason he wore glasses in 2005 and I've often wondered why he thought he needed them then but not now... :-\
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He was spot on tonight - faultless.
The audience average age increases year by year though!
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Seriously, I'm sure most of us started to listen to Mark partly because he's an incredibly gifted guitar player. While I agree that he still has the touch and can achieve sounds today that he could not 25 years ago when he was still inexperienced with distorted guitars, there's hardly any reason debating that he was technically a much better player up to 2005. His playing now is slower and he misses more notes. Sultans is but a shadow of what it once was.
And it's just not about greenies, the problem is that you can hear him struggling, sliding over notes and barely making it. I suppose his style is very demanding; it has that "perfect" quality when you're up to it because of the special style, but it sounds much weaker as soon as you hesitate.
And again, of course you should enjoy the live shows but it's only in hindsight that you can judge the actual quality of the playing.
For f@/k sake the man is 60 & he's played for the world for the past 35 yrs, who are we to say what he's doing is wrong or right????When last did any of us play in front of 5 people not to mind 5,000 people at 60 ???????He is what he is,full stop,like it or not,love it or hate it!
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For f@/k sake the man is 60 & he's played for the world for the past 35 yrs, who are we to say what he's doing is wrong or right????When last did any of us play in front of 5 people not to mind 5,000 people at 60 ???????He is what he is,full stop,like it or not,love it or hate it!
AMEN!
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Ditto! ;)
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Like I've said before, people on this forum just can't stand when Mark is criticized. Compared to other forums, the atmosphere in here is polite to the extent of being extreme. It's a forum for discussion, after all.
People start cursing because someone mentions that Mark's playing is below his previous standard? Childish.
And, please note that my reply was a reply to Val's assertion that he made more mistakes as a young player. I don't believe I have ever encountered such a position before. If you're unable to discuss these things in a civilised manner, well, I can only feel sorry for you.
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Please, Tallgren, just enjoy the man NOW whilst he is still producing wonderful music, because it won't go on forever. I hope you will appreciate how fantastic the show is as much as others have, when your turn comes. :)
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Believe me, I do enjoy these shows! That's not what I'm saying at all. Fortunately, my world is not black and white as some people's seem to be :)
I have the Eugene bootleg and I have listened to it many a night. Great stuff. I'm afraid I'll miss him this tour though. I live in Sweden but Helsingborg is almost in Denmark so I won't make it to that show (it's sold out too now).
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I have the Eugene bootleg and I have listened to it many a night. Great stuff. I'm afraid I'll miss him this tour though. I live in Sweden but Helsingborg is almost in Denmark so I won't make it to that show (it's sold out too now).
Oh, that's sad! Maybe we will get a DVD this time or even some MP3's! :)
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personnaly I agreed with WM's reaction because I hate negativism (if there is such a word?), in everything. I prefer to concentrate on the positive.
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Like I've said before, people on this forum just can't stand when Mark is criticized. Compared to other forums, the atmosphere in here is polite to the extent of being extreme. It's a forum for discussion, after all.
People start cursing because someone mentions that Mark's playing is below his previous standard? Childish.
And, please note that my reply was a reply to Val's assertion that he made more mistakes as a young player. I don't believe I have ever encountered such a position before. If you're unable to discuss these things in a civilised manner, well, I can only feel sorry for you.
Exactly. I am with you Tallgren.
For f@/k sake the man is 60 & he's played for the world for the past 35 yrs, who are we to say what he's doing is wrong or right????When last did any of us play in front of 5 people not to mind 5,000 people at 60 ???????He is what he is,full stop,like it or not,love it or hate it!
Alright, he has played for 35 years in public, but I think I can express what I think about his work. Or should it be rather that whatever he does I have to agree with and approve of his work/actions blindly, just because he is somebody (this goes for anybody, not just MK). And if he has played for 35 years in public, then he must be used to playing for 5000 or 50000 people no matter how old is he.
He is what he is, and he also isn't exactly what he was (speaking about guitar playing). But everyone changes over time.
I still love his concerts.
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I think its great Mark does whatever the hell he likes now (lets face it, he always has!)
Its just annoying there is no-one official to petition regarding a bootleg / outtake boxset type thing from the old days, or even the solo days. Any mention of the glorious past is met with disdain, which i think is just plain un-cool!
On the positive side, Alchemy was given the same `not going to happen` vibe, and then it did!!!! I wonder who made this decision ? Was it Management, Chuck, or some guy who cleans the studio ????? Whoever you are, we want more !!!!!!!!
:)
Edit - Can you imagine the gold that would be locked away as alternate DS versions of songs ? Beautifully recorded, etc etc - there must be a Blind Willie McTell or two waiting to be heard, i just hope i`m alive to hear them !
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I think that although he may not be as accurate in his playing as he used to be (this is most evident in recent versions of Wild Theme where he nearly always scuffs notes now) he is better in many other ways than he was in the early days in as far as his vocabulary goes (sounds and licks etc.) so it's a bit of give and take really.
I must say though that in Glasgow on Friday night his playing was fantastic and he really turned back the years so on a good night he's better than ever! :)
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I agree that it's give and take, for sure. As I've stated elsewhere on the forum, I think that GL is a great record and as you say, Mark's playing style is different these days, not simply "worse".
I'm very sad to miss this tour. I'd love to hear some of the new songs in the setlist.
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Quote Alchemy:
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Seriously, I'm sure most of us started to listen to Mark partly because he's an incredibly gifted guitar player. While I agree that he still has the touch and can achieve sounds today that he could not 25 years ago when he was still inexperienced with distorted guitars, there's hardly any reason debating that he was technically a much better player up to 2005. His playing now is slower and he misses more notes. Sultans is but a shadow of what it once was.
And it's just not about greenies, the problem is that you can hear him struggling, sliding over notes and barely making it. I suppose his style is very demanding; it has that "perfect" quality when you're up to it because of the special style, but it sounds much weaker as soon as you hesitate.
And again, of course you should enjoy the live shows but it's only in hindsight that you can judge the actual quality of the playing.
Do you know ANYTHING about guitar playing? It's of course OK that you don't like his current guitar style (which has changed drastically since the 70's and 80's), but this doesn't make sense at all...
Pity you aren-' able to see him this summer! Why don't you just pop over to Oslo?
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Seriously, I'm sure most of us started to listen to Mark partly because he's an incredibly gifted guitar player. While I agree that he still has the touch and can achieve sounds today that he could not 25 years ago when he was still inexperienced with distorted guitars, there's hardly any reason debating that he was technically a much better player up to 2005. His playing now is slower and he misses more notes. Sultans is but a shadow of what it once was.
And it's just not about greenies, the problem is that you can hear him struggling, sliding over notes and barely making it. I suppose his style is very demanding; it has that "perfect" quality when you're up to it because of the special style, but it sounds much weaker as soon as you hesitate.
And again, of course you should enjoy the live shows but it's only in hindsight that you can judge the actual quality of the playing.
Do you know ANYTHING about guitar playing? It's of course OK that you don't like his current guitar style (which has changed drastically since the 70's and 80's), but this doesn't make sense at all...
Pity you aren-' able to see him this summer! Why don't you just pop over to Oslo?
Haha, I've played the guitar for about six years. MK made me pick up the guitar and I play his songs almost daily; that's why it matters so much. (Though everyone is entitled to their opinion, guitar player or not...)
I LOVE his playing today, but I don't mind criticizing it when I think it's not up to par (judged by MK standards). That's the way I reason with my favourite players, writers, singers, painters, whatever. Being a fan is not the same thing as worshipping every little thing someone does. I never said I did not like his present style, I like it a lot. But 2005 was the last tour where he, to me, seemed to be fully in control of his playing. I don't see why that's such a controversial thing to say. It's not very strange; the guitar comes second these days, the songs come first. But I'm entitled to comment on a guitarist's playing, am I not? These days, his playing, which has been a central sound of my life since being a kid, doesn't do it the way it used to. Again, judging by MK standards. I should say that, as you indicate, he's after different things today with his playing. I think it's a combination of a new desired style and new physical limitations.
Oslo is an alternative but I'm afraid it doesn't look like it will happen. Are there tickets available, the MK News link leads nowhere?
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My main gripe is the fact that MK does the same songs every night of the tour apart from missing out one or two occasionally. Surely, if the band's as good as Guy says it is, then it would be no problem to rehearse 50 odd songs and mix it up every night. This is what the Rolling Stones did on their last couple of tours and it meant they could delve properly into their enormous back catlogue and dust off some long forgotten and obscure gems thus giving the fans genuine suprises amongst all the greatest hits for the casual listener.
I'm sure the hardcore fans are largely sick and tired of hearing Brothers in Arms and Romeo and Juliet played the same way they've been played for the last 25 years. They really don't need to be included in the setlist anymore. For the same reasons, I cringe when Clapton, with his massive back catalogue, drags out the tired old stodge of Cocaine and Wonderful Tonight at his concerts when he could be easily delving deeper into his old albums and keeping it interesting for the fans and presumably himself.
As for the guitar playing, yes he misses notes and his playing doesn't seem to be as 'circular' or joined up as it used to be. However, I can understand why he's replaced the guitar slinger of the late 70's with a more sedate and elegant tone due to natural ageing and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Hi all. I'm joining this one a bit late. Now i'm not one for long posts, or great disections of peoples posts or criticisms, and i'm certainly not a guitar player. All i know is that i've loved Mark's guitar sound, song writing skills and voice since the very 1st DS album, and all i can say is i love it as much today as i did all those years ago.
I love it when his live playing (which in the large part is perfect), but i also love it when he makes the odd 'greenie'.
He has been the soundtrack to my life now for so long.
His music has certainly got under my skin. Literally. (My two Knopfler related tattoos bear the proof of this fact) ;)
I will follow his music for as long as he enjoys making it.
BTW. I agree with Fletch about an outtakes, rarities boxset similar to Dylan, Young, Springsteen. :)
Cheers BBB
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Tallgren - I saw Mark on Friday and his guitar playing was brilliant imo. I heard one fluffed note the whole night. The little camera on his guitar that projects a close up of his hands (esp the left hand) onto a big screen behind the band really shows you how well he works those strings! I think he's still got it all there and can bring it out when he wants to.
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Tallgren - I saw Mark on Friday and his guitar playing was brilliant imo. I heard one fluffed note the whole night. The little camera on his guitar that projects a close up of his hands (esp the left hand) onto a big screen behind the band really shows you how well he works those strings! I think he's still got it all there and can bring it out when he wants to.
I hear you man and that sounds awesome! As far as I can tell, the sitting down business has had positive effects on his playing.
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I was as big a DS fan as anybody, but like Val I listen to MK's solo work much more now than DS.
I think all of his solo albums are excellent, with the exception of KTGC, it still has a few good songs on it but more poor than good IMO.
Until recently I considered Shangri La to be MK's finest album, either solo or with DS, but Get Lucky may be better.
And in terms of performance, I have been fortunate enough to see MK live on 13 ocassions now and the gig last Friday in Glasgow was probably the best, at least equal with 96 in Aberdeen which had the longer GH set, MK enthusiasm for Les Pauls and 96ers etc.
I just hope MK can keep going, this back problem is a reminder that he is a man in his 60s. :-\
Still, Willie Nelson is still going strong at 78. :)
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It's the same for me, I listen more to MK solo work than DS. That doesn't necessarily mean it's "better" but it's new and fresh, and there are many solo albums now. Here's to hoping he hits the studio after the tour!
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same here.
but wit h 120GB on the ipod,on shuffle, i listen to both, and others all the time.
i don't care. like it all (MK, NHB, DS, EC etc..)
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Me too ! MK solos stuff dominate my ipod time. I think there are just so much more maturity in the songs, lyrics wise, musical, and vocal.
MK has indeed evolved and I believe he will continue to do so as he's getting older and naturally becoming more infused with wisdom. At least that's what I think.
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I listen to DS surely more than to MK. (because I don't like falling asleep ;D ;D )
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I listen to DS surely more than to MK. (because I don't like falling asleep ;D ;D )
Funny thing about this is, in my teens I used to struggle to sleep sometimes and would usually put one of the first four DS albums on, always worked!