A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: herlock on May 22, 2010, 01:56:03 PM
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Since we talk in another thread about the evolution of MK's music and approach... I remember that the STP album caused the break-up between Ed Biknell, DS and MK's manager so far, and Mark. Does anybody know the exact circumstances ? I vaguely read that Ed wanted to make a DS come-back, while MK strongly opposed... here is my take on it, with an (almost) imaginary dialogue :)
EB: Hey Mark, just listened to your latest album, it is AWSOME ! It is what OES should have been in the first place ! The true successor to BIA ! WII is the ideal single, the new MFN, better than CE ! STP is the new TR! PR is even better than YAYF! and I was speechless listening to SAN! People will be as hysterical as for SOS! And SB will be a killer played live !! I'm so excited !
MK: I'm glad you like it.
EB: Now, Mark, Let's get down to the business; I know you once said you did'nt want to hear about DS for at least 10 years; well, we are almost there, it has been 9 years; I trust you've had a good rest; with this album, we can start it all over again and make a stunning DS come back !
MK: No.
EB: Are you crazy ? Your fan club does know your name, but the masses don't! they never heard about Mark Knopfler, like it or not! they want Dire Straits! I'm not asking for much, keep everything, just change the name on the cover ! I''ll do it for you ! We'll sell 20 million of units ! come on, man !
MK: Which part of "no" did you not understand, Ed ?
EB: Fine! Go and play in front of 3 get-a-lifer kids and 5 old ladies if you like! but without me ! I have to make a living ! I did not bother you for the past 10 years ! I let you indulge in charity concerts and weddings! I did not say a word when you wasted the GH opportunity in 96 with a ridiculous 4-month baby tour! I
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ha ha very good herlock - he would have got the Whitney Houston thing right anyway :o :o
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mm, i remember something about mark entering ed's office with his motor helmet still on and firing him on the spot.
reason? no clue.
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mm, i remember something about mark entering ed's office with his motor helmet still on and firing him on the spot.
reason? no clue.
Maybe he found out Ed was the guy who ate the sausages - was it sausages???? (was that during the OES tour?)
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lol, ..
"you will never eatfrom my sausages again, you ARE FIRED!"
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:)) LOL. The saussages story was reported by Phil Palmer, yes it happened during the OES tour. He said the thing, which could have just been amusing, got out of proportion because Mark wanted to fire the guilty one. Must have been under a lot of pressure back then, to overreact like this, like a diva which I am sure Mark is not... it seems that he never fired anybody, people who could not cope with him left by themselves: his own brother David, Pick Whiters, Hal Lindes; seems that Jack Sonni, Terry Williams, Chad Cromwell, and Jim Cox all left for personal reasons rather than because of a quarrel, and John Illsley and Alan Clark only left because of Dire Sraits's death.
As for Ed... maybe Ed started to work on reforming DS behing Mark's back, and Mark got enraged once he found out ?
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As for me, I always thought that it was announced to Chad that he needn't come back after abandoning them in the middle of a tour, when Danny worked out so great. Obviously, this is pure guesswork.
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herlock,
you have a good imagination and it's very funny !!
Phil Palmer 's book on Mark is quite controversial, isn't it ?
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herlock,
you have a good imagination and it's very funny !!
Phil Palmer 's book on Mark is quite controversial, isn't it ?
Sweetsurrender, It was Myles Palmer who wrote the book on Mark. It is quite entertaining, but has a lot of inaccuracies. Some interesting photos! :)
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val, ooop, I goofed there. Thanks for correcting. I was thinking about getting the book.
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The reason behind that was that MK wanted to change his music style into what it is right now, and Ed wanted that MM remained MK, or in other words, the Dire Straits frontman instead the country-celtic-folk songwriter he is right now. Also there were many fights between them regarding how STP should sound, as far as I know the track list was changed at least three times.
The helmet moment happened after a discussion about the promotion MK should do for STP, Ed wanted to do something big, like in DS times to make his solo career bigger, as when Sting or Phil Collins left Police or Genesis to start a very succesful solo career, but MK wasn
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Thanks jbaent for all these detais. May I ask how you know about them ?
Your conclusion is a bit black & white, isn't ? Life tought me that people tend to be grey instead of all white or all black... :)
Maybe one of the reasons I am fascinated by MK is precisely his human complexity. What kind of man really is he ?
The rock star in the stadiums, or the intimate artist who renounced the dark side of the force ?
The humble, self-effacing man who never talks about himself, or the tyran/diva who only wants "yes men", gets enraged about saussages, or fire his long-time best friend on the spot ?
The open, tolerant man who was against the Napter lawsuit, or the "finger or death" ?
I guess he is all of that. One foot in the light side, one foot in the dark side. At least, somebody who left the dark side on his own initiative :)
What strikes me is his relationship with his brother: I understand their quarell in 1980, Mark was the most talented, but David wanted his songs to see the light and not live in his brother'shadow.... but then, in 1983, Mark plays on David's debut album, so the 2 brothers seemed reconciled, yet, over the years they never got close again. How could this be ?? is it because of the overcommercialisation of DS starting 1985 ? Yet, Mark's solo career is much closer to David's intimate music crafting, why this turn did not get them to get closer ? If Roger Waters and David Gilmour, who had been "trowing their toys at each other for 20 years" as RW said, could reconcile, why cant' 2 brothers of an otherwise united family can't reconcile 30 years later ??
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MK should pursue whatever direction he desires because that will keep him going in the long run. As for the actual music, I think that STP is his best album so I wouldn't say that Ed was "wrong". Probably he wanted MK to play stadiums ;D
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I read several interviews, and I also have a very good friend who lived in Chelsea for many years, pretty close to where Ed and Mark lived at that time (in the same street), he saw Ed once and they had a very nice chat, apparently Ed is a person who likes to talk, and he doesn
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Thanks for all these details, very interesting.
Actually, isn't to Mark's credit that he did not want to pursue a big music career, meaning touring on a large scale, in other words, doing DS just without DS' name ? That he fired his old friend because he did not want him to drag him into this direction, but kept him as a friend on a personal level ? I've seen much, much, much worse in the corporate environment...
In other words, Mark finally agreed with his brother David about what music is about; the only difference being, before that, Mark took time to make money in the dark side of the music world. Maybe the reason why they still don't talk to each other ?
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Not a great help in this discussion, but all i can say is, i met, spoke & got his autograph a couple of times after NHB gigs in the 90's.
A really nice man imho. :)
Cheers BBB
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MK should pursue whatever direction he desires because that will keep him going in the long run. As for the actual music, I think that STP is his best album so I wouldn't say that Ed was "wrong". Probably he wanted MK to play stadiums ;D
To be honest, I wish Ed had stayed. The STP promotion back then was way better. And what has he become now? The promotion is almost zero, and as a result, ticket sales have decreased. I certainly don't want MK to play in stadiums and I don't want him to resurrect the Straits or move into some musical direction he doesn't want to but I think his PR really sucks these days and PC doesn't make things better. There's nothing wrong with decent promotion AND staying true to yourself, musically and personally.
I don't know, I think things would work better if Ed was still around today.
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I don't care about ticket sales, as long as I can get good tickets, I'm happy.
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Well I don't know about stadiums but the show I'm going to is sold out and I am sure the venue can hold at least 10 000. I would rather see him in a theater like in the States....
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I had a quick chat with Ed in 2006 at the variety Club Tribute dinner I assume as he was there they are still very good friends certainly looked that way. Also just because some doesn't work for someone else means they are "fired". I can only guess and no one seems to know that their expectations for the future were different so would have been daft to continue. I also think that the big gaps between tours and albums at the time were probably harder for Ed than anyone.
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I had a quick chat with Ed in 2006 at the variety Club Tribute dinner I assume as he was there they are still very good friends certainly looked that way. Also just because some doesn't work for someone else means they are "fired". I can only guess and no one seems to know that their expectations for the future were different so would have been daft to continue. I also think that the big gaps between tours and albums at the time were probably harder for Ed than anyone.
Good to hear that Ed was there, seems the spilt may be more amicable than we have previously guessed then.
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I don't have details but when an artist and his manager don't have the same view anymore the only thing to do is parting away. But Mark does not talk much about that (or anything else) so only one side of the stroy so far. But I could easily imagine if the NHB would be back together for a charity that Ed could be part of it.
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Mark took time to make money in the dark side of the music world.
What do you mean? This has been an interesting discussion to follow. We are all complex people, indeed. Sometimes I can't even figure myself out. ;D
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I mean, MK did the BIA and OES tours, which were way too big for his intimistic nature. In 1996 h
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Although the Phillips contract wasn't very lucrative.
Ed Bicknell revealed in a 1992 interview in Vox magazine that the fee was "
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Although the Phillips contract wasn't very lucrative.
Ed Bicknell revealed in a 1992 interview in Vox magazine that the fee was "
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I get the feeling that he was driven to number one just to prove to himself that he COULD do it, if he wanted to.
Having been the biggest band in the world in 85, number one US singles, etc etc he dropped it down again, albeit after an attempt to tread water in eth OES era.
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I think the fact that MK is such a complex character is what makes him so fascinating, to me anyway. Other high profile celebrities are pleased to let it all hang out, but MK has always been much too reserved to divulge everything and it just prolongs and preserves the fascination.
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found this bio of Ed on the web, interestingly MK's worldwide album sales have just passed 140 million
Ed has worked in the music industry for over 35 years. After graduating in 1969 with a BA Hons Degree in Social Studies, he moved to London and established himself as an agent, representing a wide variety of artists including Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Elton John, Steely Dan, Jose Feliciano, War, Bobby Womack, Ike and Tina Turner, yes, The Ramones and Talking Heads.
In the late 70s, he entered music management and subsequently represented Gerry Rafferty, Bryan Ferry, Scott Walker, Paul Brady and The Blue Nile.
However, it is as a manager of Dire Straits and the solo career of Mark Knopfler that Ed is best known. Over 25 years, Dire Straits became one of the world's most popular acts and, Mark Knopfler's solo albums and film soundtracks included, recently passed combined sales of 140 million albums, making Ed one of the most successful managers of the last two decades.
From 1983 until 1987, Ed served on the committee of the Prince of Wales personal charity, the Prince's Trust and was also a founder member of Sir George Martin's Music For Montserrat Committee. He is a founder member and former Vice Chairman of the UK Music Manager's Forum, which exists to deal with industry-wide matters where they affect artists and their management. In September of 1998, Ed was presented with the prestigious 'Peter Grant Lifetime Achievement Award' at the annual MMF awards dinner.
After closing down his management company at the end of 2005, he was invited to "set up and run" the International Music Division of the William Morris Agency, which opened in London in January of this year.
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My point of view on the question is that Ed managed Dire Straits carrer while Mark is managing his solo career.
My biggest surprise was when I heard that Mark was recording what would become OES because after the BIA tour I assumed that this band was "over". And the OES tour did strenghten Mark's decision that all this silly circus was too big for him. On french TV in 2000 Mark once said that DS had become a "big truck to drive".
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My point of view on the question is that Ed managed Dire Straits carrer while Mark is managing his solo career.
My biggest surprise was when I heard that Mark was recording what would become OES because after the BIA tour I assumed that this band was "over". And the OES tour did strenghten Mark's decision that all this silly circus was too big for him. On french TV in 2000 Mark once said that DS had become a "big truck to drive".
Much as I enjoy the OES album, I sometimes think it would have been cool if MK had disbanded DS after Brothers in Arms - really going out at the top.
That said, it was the OES album that got me obsessed with DS/MK, so if he hadn't recorded it, I may not be typing this right now!
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Yeah, and would maybe heavily been involved in the Phil Collins fan forum....
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol ;D ;D ;D ;D
LE in the air tonight...
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No, I've always been sensible enough to know that Phil Collins was utter bollocks. Although I must admit, one time I did pretend to like Phil Collins to try to get into a girl's pants.
I was unsuccessful, but it taught me a valuable lesson about women.
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I think the fact that MK is such a complex character is what makes him so fascinating, to me anyway. Other high profile celebrities are pleased to let it all hang out, but MK has always been much too reserved to divulge everything and it just prolongs and preserves the fascination.
That's so true, val. There's something incredibly powerfully charismatic about Mark and his music that penetrate the deepest part of your heart and soul when you listen to him. His voice, the lyrics, the music, the ways he talks, I think it's the combinations of everything that make us get a lifer so obsessed with him.
Mark is the greatest !!!!
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Sweetsurrender - Maybe it has something to do with being female that we feel this way about MK. Do the men amongst us feel the same, I wonder? ;)
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No, I've always been sensible enough to know that Phil Collins was utter bollocks. Although I must admit, one time I did pretend to like Phil Collins to try to get into a girl's pants.
Excuse me, but I like Phil Collins music, solo and with Genesis (although I preffer Peter Gabriel era)...
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Sweetsurrender - Maybe it has something to do with being female that we feel this way about MK. Do the men amongst us feel the same, I wonder? ;)
I'm quite sure that men are obsessed with Mk for totally different reasons. It will be interesting to know.
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No, I've always been sensible enough to know that Phil Collins was utter bollocks. Although I must admit, one time I did pretend to like Phil Collins to try to get into a girl's pants.
I was unsuccessful, but it taught me a valuable lesson about women.
LOL!!! She must have been pretty special!
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No, I've always been sensible enough to know that Phil Collins was utter bollocks. Although I must admit, one time I did pretend to like Phil Collins to try to get into a girl's pants.
I was unsuccessful, but it taught me a valuable lesson about women.
LOL!!! She must have been pretty special!
You didnt get lucky so Dusty :P :P ;D
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I was watching the LOG-tourbook, and funny to see that Paul Crockford was involved as a promotor during that tour! (Page 21)
Regards,
Lars B.
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I was watching the LOG-tourbook, and funny to see that Paul Crockford was involved as a promotor during that tour! (Page 21)
Regards,
Lars B.
He always was in the spotlight.
I recall when someone told me that the new MK manager was the Tears for fears and Level 42 manager, my answer was "I see, he is not busy at all" ;D ;D ;D
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Much as I enjoy the OES album, I sometimes think it would have been cool if MK had disbanded DS after Brothers in Arms - really going out at the top.
That said, it was the OES album that got me obsessed with DS/MK, so if he hadn't recorded it, I may not be typing this right now!
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This is the reason what blew me about for real with DS.. Was only 16 at the time and I got to see the legendary band in Earls Court 1992.
I love the OES Album, it's one of the best of all time.
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oooohhh, how long
my parties
long highway....
Kingdom Come....
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OES is among of my very fave studio album - much more than BIA.
The sound on it is amazing and PONO got me so high.
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oooohhh, how long
my parties
long highway....
Kingdom Come....
Well 50% of those tracks aren't on the OES album. ;)
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OES is among of my very fave studio album - much more than BIA.
The sound on it is amazing and PONO got me so high.
Planet of New Orleans is one of the most underrated Straits songs! I love it, too! That guitar is just... (insert suggestive word here) ;D
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OES is among of my very fave studio album - much more than BIA.
The sound on it is amazing and PONO got me so high.
Planet of New Orleans is one of the most underrated Straits songs! I love it, too! That guitar is just... (insert suggestive word here) ;D
ultimately jouissive ;D
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Much as I enjoy the OES album, I sometimes think it would have been cool if MK had disbanded DS after Brothers in Arms - really going out at the top.
That said, it was the OES album that got me obsessed with DS/MK, so if he hadn't recorded it, I may not be typing this right now!
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he he he .... I was a huge fan since 1985, but my first stadium concert was the OES tour in Copenhagen, 1996, (2 days with 2 x 25.000 people) and that was the best ever concert he has made here. Simply perfect.
It made me go to every single one of them here since, exactly because of that ;-) there is a first time for everything ;D
MK has also saif a similar thing of DS "touring as the Straits, is like walking with a dinosaur around the world"... ::)
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Much as I enjoy the OES album, I sometimes think it would have been cool if MK had disbanded DS after Brothers in Arms - really going out at the top.
That said, it was the OES album that got me obsessed with DS/MK, so if he hadn't recorded it, I may not be typing this right now!
he he he .... I was a huge fan since 1985, but my first stadium concert was the OES tour in Copenhagen, 1996, (2 days with 2 x 25.000 people) and that was the best ever concert he has made here. Simply perfect.
It made me go to every single one of them here since, exactly because of that ;-) there is a first time for everything ;D
MK has also saif a similar thing of DS "touring as the Straits, is like walking with a dinosaur around the world"... ::)
[/quote]you mean 1992?
;D
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I think a lot of us perhaps slightly think less of the OES album than we should because it falls into the trap of being compared to the BIA album every time. Taken on it's own merits, OES is a great album, was very successful as a seller and followed by a world stadium tour which lasted fourteen months.
It's only unfortunate that it is always compared to BIA because there aren't many albums out there that sold as well as BIA.
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Much as I enjoy the OES album, I sometimes think it would have been cool if MK had disbanded DS after Brothers in Arms - really going out at the top.
That said, it was the OES album that got me obsessed with DS/MK, so if he hadn't recorded it, I may not be typing this right now!
he he he .... I was a huge fan since 1985, but my first stadium concert was the OES tour in Copenhagen, 1996, (2 days with 2 x 25.000 people) and that was the best ever concert he has made here. Simply perfect.
It made me go to every single one of them here since, exactly because of that ;-) there is a first time for everything ;D
MK has also saif a similar thing of DS "touring as the Straits, is like walking with a dinosaur around the world"... ::)
you mean 1992?
;D
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Jesus....... Pottel you are awake ;-) of course its 1992, but 1996 in Forum was also a brilliant show - ;-))
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Hi guys! My first post here. I have been a DS/MK fan since I heard SOS for the first time in '78.
A few comments about this thread, which seems to go off on tangents a bit, which I love! :)
1) The reason Ed was "let go" before STP, was the fact that Mark wanted to continue making solo albums and doing small gigs, while Ed could not adjust to that idea, having been to the "top of the mountain" with DS. As far as the reason for the small arenas and concert halls was simply the fact that it was what Mark wanted. I spoke to a top exec at Warner Brothers during the STP tour, and he told me that Mark does not make any money off these tours. He pays everyone else, but he does it for the love of the music and playing it for the fans. I have been in the front row at a few concerts, a chance I would not have if the concerts were being played at 25,000 seat venues. I just love the intimacy.
2) The reason for OES was strictly a result of contractual obligations to the record companies. That is why The Best of.... was released, as well as the Live at the BBC (IN 1996), which was the final release on the deal. I agree that Mark would have closed up shop after the BIA tour ended in 1986. Who among us didn't have a tear in their eye after the final Austrailian show, with Mark saying "take care, be well, bye bye"?
3) As a guy, responding to the women here, there are times that I am so into the music, that it does go deep into my soul. At the two Get Lucky shows I attended, I felt so into the music during Hills Farmers Blues, Speedway, Monteleone, Brothers in Arms, Piper To The End. To describe it as a high would be an understatement.
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Beautiful speaking. Welcome to the forum!:D I hope you write a lot more!
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nice intro shai, where are you from??
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Welcome Shai !
1) The reason Ed was "let go" before STP, was the fact that Mark wanted to continue making solo albums and doing small gigs, while Ed could not adjust to that idea, having been to the "top of the mountain" with DS.
Sounds good, by the way, since 2001 Mark has the wouldwide tours and uses the big arenas. He is one of the top artists who make millions during the tours.
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Nonsense...
Dire Straits was touring for 14 months and used big arenas.
MK is touring for 4 months, using very small venues in the US (sometimes less than 1,000 seats), and when he uses large venues in Europe it is on a dramatically reduced scale (compare the '92 6 nights in Paris vs. the 2010 one night in Paris for instance).
MK charges very cheap prices (in the range of 60
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Thanks, Pottel. I am from New York. Have lived in NYC and Long Island most of my life, so far ;D
herlock is spot on, ustas. Check your timeline.
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Nonsense...
Dire Straits was touring for 14 months and used big arenas.
MK is touring for 4 months, using very small venues in the US (sometimes less than 1,000 seats), and when he uses large venues in Europe it is on a dramatically reduced scale (compare the '92 6 nights in Paris vs. the 2010 one night in Paris for instance).
MK charges very cheap prices (in the range of 60
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I think the point is he would do it for free - just as he did at the start gave up a nice teaching career he did - job for life ;). Actually I do think that once you have a huge fan base who probably have to do things in tour schedules that you normally wouldn't want to - like some interviews media etc but that's just part of show biz.
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Thanks, Pottel. I am from New York. Have lived in NYC and Long Island most of my life, so far ;D
herlock is spot on, ustas. Check your timeline.
Welcome to the best MK forum in the world Shai,you'll enjoy your time here. NYC, oh man what a city, if I was 20 again ::) ::)
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It's hardly a secret that MK ticket sales in the US are weaker than in Europe, thus the smaller venues. I'm sure they'd play bigger venues if they could.
And playing medium-sized arenas (which can be like ice hockey halls!) is pretty big for most artists ;D
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Dire Straits was touring for 14 months and used big arenas.
I would like to meet a 60 old star is touring 14 months.
MK is touring for 4 months, using very small venues in the US (sometimes less than 1,000 seats), and when he uses large venues in Europe it is on a dramatically reduced scale (compare the '92 6 nights in Paris vs. the 2010 one night in Paris for instance).
Every 2 years. 14 months during latest 6 years. The same result for latest Dire Straits tour.
MK charges very cheap prices (in the range of 60
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It's hardly a secret that MK ticket sales in the US are weaker than in Europe, thus the smaller venues. I'm sure they'd play bigger venues if they could.
And yet they were bigger venues in 08, Red Rocks etc. This time smaller venues but higher prices.
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I would like to meet a 60 old star is touring 14 months.
Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson are two straight off the top of my head without thinking about it. They both tour pretty much constantly. Kris Kristofferson too, and he plays a two hour solo acoustic show every night.
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I would like to meet a 60 old star is touring 14 months.
Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson are two straight off the top of my head without thinking about it. They both tour pretty much constantly. Kris Kristofferson too, and he plays a two hour solo acoustic show every night.
I'm not familiar with their schedule's so feel free to correct me but surely they have breaks of about a month off every so often to keep them fresh and also I think the travelling from city to city every night is one of the most tiring aspects of touring. Also, perhaps other artists have a couple of days off in between dates to recover from travel exhaustion. Perhaps this would be a better idea as Mark gets older. :-\
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I would like to meet a 60 old star is touring 14 months.
Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson are two straight off the top of my head without thinking about it. They both tour pretty much constantly. Kris Kristofferson too, and he plays a two hour solo acoustic show every night.
I'm not familiar with their schedule's so feel free to correct me but surely they have breaks of about a month off every so often to keep them fresh and also I think the travelling from city to city every night is one of the most tiring aspects of touring. Also, perhaps other artists have a couple of days off in between dates to recover from travel exhaustion. Perhaps this would be a better idea as Mark gets older. :-\
Mark does not try to do like others he do like he wants/feel it.