A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Love Expresso on July 29, 2010, 10:27:06 AM
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Hi there,
on MKNews there is a link to Alan's new homepage, created together with Terry Kilburn. It is all in the early stages but I found some interesting stuff
at the "Biog" section. Have a read, it seems we all should be lucky to have had Alan join the band apparently otherwise there would not have been another record after Making Movies... A quotation here from Alan's biog section:
People sometimes point out to me that when I joined the band I transformed it into the huge, stadium-filling phenomina people remember it as, and perhaps, without blowing my own trumpet too hard, they're right. Before that, Mark's songs, amazing though they were, were written and performed within a very tight format with only a handful of chords played only on guitars. He'd begun to realise that if the band was going to go the distance he had to introduce another dynamic. He'd done that to a degree on the Making Movies album, by having Roy Bittan overdub some piano and organ parts, and he'd written at least one of the songs on a Prophet V synthesizer. But I brought a whole new musicality to the band by introducing them to new chords, ideas, sounds, moods and arrangements they hadn't experienced, which was immediately evident in the first record I recorded with them, the complex and expansive Love Over Gold album, and every record thereafter.
And another one about being in the band in general:
Let me give you another tip: If you ever get the chance to join a moderately successful band that stands a reasonable chance of becoming a huge, money-spinning global phenomina, be sure to have a manager representing you.
Some interesting stuff here. Anyone who thinks Dire Straits were at their best during the time from 1981 to 1985 must fully agree to these statements,
and of course of lot of us "Die-hard-fans" think that this era was the best one I am sure. That would also mean that Mark's solo career since then was
scaling down (because of the absence of Alan's contributions), and that is something I would not support at all. For my part, I am more happy with his solo releases and the amount of songs he still releases than always remembering one or two "better" albums from the 80's...
Not my cup of tea also is the fact that Alan is joining Marius M
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Let me give you another tip: If you ever get the chance to join a moderately successful band that stands a reasonable chance of becoming a huge, money-spinning global phenomina, be sure to have a manager representing you.
This reminds me of Hal Lindes leaving the band suddenly because of a money issue. Does this mean than Mark was greedy at the time ? ;)
It seems that Mark kept very good relationships with most of ex-DS, except those who left (his own brother, Hal, Pick) and... Alan. They are not seen together anymore, altough the nice pics on Alan's website suggest deep affection between the two. What happened ? musical differences ? fight over money ? or Mark considering Alan not good enough to work with him anymore, as I once read ?
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This reminds me of Hal Lindes leaving the band suddenly because of a money issue.
I never heard about that. Not sure if we should go deeper into this money thing. A band is not a marriage and it is totally normal that sometimes band members come and go - well, at least as you are not U2.
Funny however for me is that since MK is solo, it seems he has found the perfect band. The core of the once called "96ers" is still the same with Guy, Richard and Glen - for 15 years now. So it seems MK is happy with what he does at the moment more than ever. Telling stories from the past or only giving hints here and there is not the best possible way to live with the past in my humble opinion. MK never looks back, that is maybe the best possible way...
LE
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First of all, interesting stuff, but it really does make Alan sound a bit big headed. Doesn't mean it's not true though...
Secondly, there have been a few grumbles here and there in the past that after Pick and David left the other "members" of DS were on fairly basic wages rather than getting a cut of the huge DS pie.
Thirdly, MK played with Alan for the Masterclass TV show, ten years ago? Also at the opening of Alan Shearer's bar, so it seems that if MK is doing something musical in Newcastle he will still work with Alan.
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Of course, some maybe bitter words don't automatically mean that they never talk to each other again. You are right about the collaborations of course, Dusty.
LE
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"...every record thereafter..."
Aren't bia and oes fairly straightforward arrangements with straightforward chords compared with LOG???
I always find these bits from ex band members tantalizing, but of course no one ever goes 'on the record' with any major gripes?
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The Westernhagen part is interesting, because Mel Collins was a member of his band in the in the 90s, and David Knopfler
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He does't overtly criticise MK, but reading between the lines he seems annoyed that he didn't get enough credit or financial reward for his contributions to DS. He also seems pissed off that he left Clapton's band to go back to DS.
All of which may be true, but if he's so great, how come he hasn't done anything of note since DS finished?
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Agreed Dusty, although it must irk somewhat if the one time of your life you had a massive creative surge you weren't paid well for it. Thank goodness for artistic integrity - at least alan knows the truth... ;D
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And let's not forget about DK saying in a 2005 inverview, to the question "Which DS songs have you written ?" he answered, evasively and sarcastically: "yes, it's strange that there are no credits for me on Dire Straits and Communiqu
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I wonder to what extend the "Live at the BBC" release in 1995, featuring the one and only recording of one song co-written by the two brothers ("What's The Matter Baby?") was an attempt by MK to make it up for his brother...
I would say zero extent, it just so happened that What's The Matter Baby was part of teh show that was being released.
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true, mark didn't even "know" i was being released. i remember something like that in an interview back then.
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Let me give you another tip: If you ever get the chance to join a moderately successful band that stands a reasonable chance of becoming a huge, money-spinning global phenomina, be sure to have a manager representing you.
This reminds me of Hal Lindes leaving the band suddenly because of a money issue. Does this mean than Mark was greedy at the time ? ;)
It seems that Mark kept very good relationships with most of ex-DS, except those who left (his own brother, Hal, Pick) and... Alan. They are not seen together anymore, altough the nice pics on Alan's website suggest deep affection between the two. What happened ? musical differences ? fight over money ? or Mark considering Alan not good enough to work with him anymore, as I once read ?
You forget Terry who said that while whith DS he earned far less money than people though. Sid McGinnis was replaced by Hal because of the fee he asked to go on road with them.
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Let me give you another tip: If you ever get the chance to join a moderately successful band that stands a reasonable chance of becoming a huge, money-spinning global phenomina, be sure to have a manager representing you.
This reminds me of Hal Lindes leaving the band suddenly because of a money issue. Does this mean than Mark was greedy at the time ? ;)
It seems that Mark kept very good relationships with most of ex-DS, except those who left (his own brother, Hal, Pick) and... Alan. They are not seen together anymore, altough the nice pics on Alan's website suggest deep affection between the two. What happened ? musical differences ? fight over money ? or Mark considering Alan not good enough to work with him anymore, as I once read ?
You forget Terry who said that while whith DS he earned far less money than people though. Sid McGinnis was replaced by Hal because of the fee he asked to go on road with them.
Maybe that's why Guy writes film scores in his spare time! ;)
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I like the fact that Alan says he showed mark some 'new' chords.... oh thankyou so much. I doub't that. Why don't these people just acknowledge the genius that MK is? He was bounds and leaps against so many other musicians of the time and now. There is no other Mark Knopfler :)
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I like the fact that Alan says he showed mark some 'new' chords.... oh thankyou so much. I doub't that. Why don't these people just acknowledge the genius that MK is? He was bounds and leaps against so many other musicians of the time and now. There is no other Mark Knopfler :)
Actually famous walk of life keyboards chords were created by Alan himself, but as the song was written by MK he never had his credit for that. According to Guy "Its something you add to the songs as part of your job"
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I like the fact that Alan says he showed mark some 'new' chords.... oh thankyou so much. I doub't that. Why don't these people just acknowledge the genius that MK is? He was bounds and leaps against so many other musicians of the time and now. There is no other Mark Knopfler :)
Actually famous walk of life keyboards chords were created by Alan himself, but as the song was written by MK he never had his credit for that. According to Guy "Its something you add to the songs as part of your job"
Right but some still think that a genius will never have the need help from someone else to write some parts...
And regarding WOL it is IMO its worst contribution to a DS song, had'd better stayed in bed on that day.
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Right but some still think that a genius will never have the need help from someone else to write some parts...
And regarding WOL it is IMO its worst contribution to a DS song, had'd better stayed in bed on that day.
Hmm, the keyboard part is the "hook" of that song, to be honest I don't think it would be a hit without it.
Indeed our friend Bobby Valentino had a court case that suggests AC may in fact be due some cash for his contribution?
http://www.bobbyvalentino.co.uk/bluebells-court-case-press.html
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If memory serves me right, Guy a.k.a. Doc once stated that Mark wrote the WOL riff, be it true or not.
I have no doubt that Alan brought some new "chords" and musical ideas to the band. I'm not so sure that that made the hits and the band big, though.
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Everybody who was interested in music and read the relevant magazines/newspapers around the year 1980 (when Alan joined DS) should have been able to know what this band was about, referring the decisive role MK played. From the earliest beginnings every article stated clearly that MK was the "Boss", writing, playing and composing everything. And that was the point for me to open this thread: Why taking everything in, joining both the BIA and OES tour, but then 20 years later starting to complain. I am sure Mr. Clark never would have been asked to play with Tina or Eric if Mark would have chosen another keyboard player instead of him.
Quoted from Alan's page again:
One of the songs we recorded during the Love Over Gold sessions was Private Dancer, which didn't make the album (it sounded strange being sung by a bloke) but I later recorded it with Tina Turner for her album of the same name. ...
... after MK gave his OK for using HIS song . Also all the other DS members were there, too! But of course, HE, Alan, recorded it. This is the some kind of arrogant sounding tone that is annoying me.
However, how annoyed I should ever be by his style, it is interesting to see what comes up any more. It seems he has a lot more to tell.
LE
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Everybody who was interested in music and read the relevant magazines/newspapers around the year 1980 (when Alan joined DS) should have been able to know what this band was about, referring the decisive role MK played. From the earliest beginnings every article stated clearly that MK was the "Boss", writing, playing and composing everything. And that was the point for me to open this thread: Why taking everything in, joining both the BIA and OES tour, but then 20 years later starting to complain. I am sure Mr. Clark never would have been asked to play with Tina or Eric if Mark would have chosen another keyboard player instead of him.
Quoted from Alan's page again:
One of the songs we recorded during the Love Over Gold sessions was Private Dancer, which didn't make the album (it sounded strange being sung by a bloke) but I later recorded it with Tina Turner for her album of the same name. ...
... after MK gave his OK for using HIS song . Also all the other DS members were there, too! But of course, HE, Alan, recorded it. This is the some kind of arrogant sounding tone that is annoying me.
However, how annoyed I should ever be by his style, it is interesting to see what comes up any more. It seems he has a lot more to tell.
LE
Very sad that Alan is coming across this way in his manner as some of MK's best work was done when Alan was in the band IMO. :(
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I am honestly sure that there was some creative and inspiring atmosphere in the band after David left and Alan and Hal joined in. And you can hear it in some of the songs of course very clearly. That is not my point. The high quality of Alan Clarks contributions to Dire Straits is free of doubt and should be regarded as valid for sure. But sometimes it seems better to remain silent.
LE
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Making Movies was done without Alan, sounds pretty damn good to me and was step forward in terms of production and dynamics too.
I think saying that Roy Bittan "just overdubbed some parts" does him a disservice.
That said there is no doubt that the LOG album had some great arrangements, same with that tour and no doubt Alan played a big part in that. Of course we know that GF also moved things forward on BiA, by suggesting the intro on MFN for example (according to Neil Dorfsman), but Guy himself would never take credit I'm sure.
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I am honestly sure that there was some creative and inspiring atmosphere in the band after David left and Alan and Hal joined in. And you can hear it in some of the songs of course very clearly. That is not my point. The high quality of Alan Clarks contributions to Dire Straits is free of doubt and should be regarded as valid for sure. But sometimes it seems better to remain silent.
LE
Seems strange that this stuff is coming out now. Perhaps the text is ghost written by someone who used to hold some influence in MK's set up but holds a grudge after being sidelined.
Also amusing his tip about those joining a "moderately successful band" - DS had already sold about 10 million albums by that point! Not so moderate IMO. :)
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With time things are changing and some claims were made well long after the recording and acknowledged : Procol Harum's "Whiter shade Of Pale" or Pink Floyd's "The Great Gig In The Sky" both ended in front of the High Court and saw revised credits.
As usual afficionados we don't know what happens in the studio but speaking with musician, author, composer you learn a lot about some uses in the music buissness. Then we reach to some point that are hard to define : from what exact point a contribution should end to credits. This is no secret that sometime some musicians receive an extra wage for written comp but without public aknowledgment nor credit.
Interesting, regarding AC involvement in DS, is to compare how arrangments had grown between the actual MM recording and the following tour - stunning.
Speaking of the post 70's era I can't think of a DS reunion that would not include Alan as his influence on the sound signature of the band was so important. We all know that MK don't share writing credits (the only one being co-credited was because it was so much inspired by another song that it would be obvious plagiat) and he is now working with musician that stick with this but seeing some DS tune co-credited by Alan (as David previously struggled to) would have been no surprise to me. Just that to draw an absolute line that determine when a contribution is or is not elligible to credit is nearly impossible.
The Rolling Stones themselve have had some dispute and part reason that Mick Taylor left is also because he was fed up to write some stuff that ended credited only to Jagger/Richards.
Doing valuable contribution doesn't mean neither that you come with the core song or the idea, just that you give additional value to it and sometime with a blowing effect.
It does not sound well to hear Alan being not that enthusiastic about his DS era but it was no secret that he and Mark were not inclined to work together after the OES recording.
And sometimes things work and sometime not. Alan to my hear has never had the acurate "blues" feeling within EC's band and the best things that happend is when he left to be back on record with DS. With the exception of the revised arrangment for the slowered WT tempo that highlighted the Mandela gig. But for the rest he was years lights of the late Billy Preston...
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... but it was no secret that he and Mark were not inclined to work together after the OES recording.
I Never heard about that. Do you know some details? Or any source? Just curious... ;)
LE
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I started to read report from Alan dissatisfaction circa 1996, he was not that happy during the OES tour and in a more recent interview (circa KTGC - of course I can't put my hand on) he also confirmed difference taste about the music he likes to play and the one currently made by Mark.
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The AC website lists a contact email. Perhaps someone could email him and ask what he means about his contributions, dissatisfaction and showing MK new ideas, etc. He might answer.
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Somebody invite him to come and join us, he would be very welcome. :)
Of course we don't know if the website email actually gets through to him...
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Yeah, you will probably end up talking to TK...
... too much fun,
LE
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UPDATE on Alan's site! He told the Redonda surfing story, interesting. I think Guy has it also on his site. It is mostly about happy days on Montserrat.
And then in the final part, he keeps on with his already discussed "style"...
but the reason we were there - recording the album - was a different story. For one reason or another we spent the first month getting nowhere, until I suggested we bring in Omar Hakim - who I'd seen and heard recording David Bowie's Let's Dance record - to lay down the drum tracks. He and I then recorded most of the backing tracks for that album, and the rest of the guys overdubbed their parts later.
Would be interesting to know if MK was there at all... :disbelief
LE
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About BIA recording, Neil Dorfsman and Jack Sonni have already spoken about and agreed, to say the less, that the process did not get on a smooth way and the band ended to be in a real hurry as the planned tour was coming on and the mix were not finished. And BIA's huge success has been acknowledged afterwards as a real surprise for the band.
(reminds me a bit of Pink Floyd's WYWH history)
Link to Neil Dorfsman interview : CLASSIC TRACKS: Dire Straits 'Money For Nothing' (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may06/articles/classictracks_0506.htm)
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but the reason we were there - recording the album - was a different story. For one reason or another we spent the first month getting nowhere, until I suggested we bring in Omar Hakim - who I'd seen and heard recording David Bowie's Let's Dance record - to lay down the drum tracks. He and I then recorded most of the backing tracks for that album, and the rest of the guys overdubbed their parts later.
Would be interesting to know if MK was there at all... :disbelief
give him a break, there is no denying his contribution to the sound of DS and it's quite human to want to boost it up on his own webpage. Anybody who has ever cared about a job has contributed to the company they are working for and most of us would embelish the story on our CVs...
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The BIA recording is very interesting although I personaly don't like - and actualy never liked - the finished product as an album. The more I listen WW performed by the NHB in 99 for example the more I think DS just f....d it up when recording it, making it the longest track on the album but was going to nowhere else than being a good music for lift.