A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: vgonis on March 02, 2012, 12:27:23 AM
-
Maybe there is a thread devoted to this already, or the information is rather daft but here it is: somebody is so fed up with MKs guitar playing that in 1989 he recorded and released this song! From the land of Basques.
http://youtu.be/Hsm68VBDUhA
MARK KNOPFLER NERE ATZETIK DABIL
(El cansino de Mark Knopfler me persigue)
Goizero esnatu ahal irrati piztu eta hor dago Mark.
Egun osoa lan ta lan eta ez inoiz nekatzen antza.
Bere kitarra nola ez entzun, jainkoa legez dago edonon,
bulego, pub, aurrezki kutxa, abio, kotxe eta trena.
Knopfler, zer egin dut, zergatik zaitut beti atzetik?
Knopfler ez jarraitu, gizajo bat naiz, ez besterik.
Erotu ote naiz?
Ezin da erreala izan, hau ametsgaiztoa.
Kalera noa kopetilun, taberna ikusi eta sartu,
kafea eskatu bezain prontu hor daukat berriz nere aiduru.
Knopfler, ez jarraitu mesedez, hautsiko dizut kitarra,
alde egin hemendik, zoaz, zoaz!
MARK KNOPFLER Nere ATZETIK TTC
(The Cansino of Mark Knopfler pursued me)
You can wake up every morning and turn on the radio is there, Mark.
I work a full day of work and never seems to tire.
Do not listen to his guitar, as God is everywhere,
office, pub, savings bank, boot, car and train.
Knopfler, what I do, why you always behind?
Knopfler does not follow, I am a wretched, only.
I would go crazy?
Can not be real, this nightmare.
Kopetilun I'm going to the street, and into bars,
I once asked my coffee as there prontu aiduru.
Knopfler, please do not continue, I'll beat the guitar,
for now, go, go!
-
a knopfler fan i s'pose?
-
I know that, while I'm banging a drum here, there are many readers who will not hear it. Nevertheless, I should point out that there are lots of songs written "for" Dylan or mentioning him by name. If you add those songs that make allusion to him or his songs, the number increases again.
-
This is a list of "Dylan" songs from 10 years ago:
http://expectingrain.com/dok/edlis/barf20011111.html
The "Dylan" listing is known as "The Barf List". I believe that it was originally compiled by someone I know but, from the title, you can tell that it was undertaken as a piece of fun.
Talking of fun, here are some Dylan satires and similar:
http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gasarch/dylan/dylan.html
Meanwhile, here are some links to songs mentioning other performers in general:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=6226828&mesg_id=6230929
-
Here are the Barf List rules:
The Rules:
1) No songs written by Bob Dylan.
2) Only officially released songs.
3) No spoken introduction that mention Bob Dylan (or Bob, or Mister D., or
Zimmerman, etc.) on live recordings.
4) If the Bob Dylan (or Bob, etc.) mention appears more than once in a song's
lyric, only the first line with this name mention is cited.
The Categories:
a) Songs that mention Bob Dylan (or Bob, or Mister D., or
Zimmerman, or Dylan etc. - they have to be the Bob Dylan) in their title.
b) Songs that mention Bob Dylan (or Bob..., see above) in their title and their lyrics.
c) Songs that mention Bob Dylan (or Bob..., see above) in their lyrics.
d) Songs about Bob Dylan that do not specifically mention his name.
e) Comedies & Parodies
f) Tough Cookies
-
I know that, while I'm banging a drum here, there are many readers who will not hear it. Nevertheless, I should point out that there are lots of songs written "for" Dylan or mentioning him by name. If you add those songs that make allusion to him or his songs, the number increases again.
well, I am not one to get upset when threads take different directions, but that was a thread about a song written about MK, so changing the subject on the first reply is a bit much, even for me... ;D
-
Just adding a bit of perspective, that's all. No intention to offend nor to divert others from commenting on the song that started the thread. Please go ahead.
-
twm, you have banged the drums of war! ;D No wonder there are so many songs about Dylan. In fact if they are in the same vein as this "Knopfler" one, no wonder at all. ;D He's been around longer and there are so many things to complain about. From his peculiar attitude in the 60ies, the born again thing, his voice, his keyboard-harmonica-guitar skills, his 80ies-90ies period and last but not least the price of his vinyl records. ;D
Thank you for the links, I had no idea it was so big!
Even John Cleese's name is used by Human League for a tune! (Of course this is just a tune and the reference is only in the title "John Cleese, he is not that funny"-or something)
Back on the original topic. I have also located this but haven't been able to find a youtube video snippet.
Dire Straits Plays Nuremberg - Mike Ladd
-
lol, lighten up folks.
-
Lol, I can imagine someone writing a song because they want to play like Mark, but not because they're sick of him!! ;D
-
I think there is a song from Jean Jacques Goldman where he mentions Mark Knopfler
-
I think there is a song from Jean Jacques Goldman where he mentions Mark Knopfler
Yes, the song is "Des Vies" by Jean Jacques Goldman, Carol Fredericks and Mickael Jones.
Here is the text:
P
-
I think there is a song from Jean Jacques Goldman where he mentions Mark Knopfler
can't see which one, but JJ Goldman isn't my cup of tea :)
-
Yes, the song is "Des Vies" by Jean Jacques Goldman, Carol Fredericks and Mickael Jones.
Here is the text:
P
-
Pulp - Last Day Of The Miners Strike
I assume he is referring to MK when he sings the following:
Well my body sank below the ground, it became as black as night,
Overhead the sound of horses' hooves, people fighting for their lives.
Some joker in a headband was still getting chicks for free
And Big Brother was still watching you, back in the days of '83
-
Someone should start a list of songs that are lyrically linked to MK in some way, perhaps using the "rules" for The Barf List as a guide to the criteria to be applied.
-
Nice one Banjo! And from the social conscious and still very artistic Pulp!
Of course there are some historic inaccuracies and time inconsistencies , maybe Mr. Jarvis did it for the rhyming part!
Released for the first time in 2002 as a bonus unreleased song in the "Hits" compilation. Burt Bacharach is also credited as a co-writer!
Joker? I don't think so...
Anyway maybe he should reconsider the Common people lyrics as well...
And what a coincidence, MK releasing Iron Hand a decade earlier, a song about the miners written circa 1983!
http://youtu.be/LYbSIYSdHSs
twm, that was sort of the idea of this thread, but you are right. Some of these rules must apply in order to make it better. But first let's do the collecting!
-
I thought the year was changed to make it rhyme as well. Also along the same theme, but not a song, is the Irish punk band Sultans Of Ping FC named after the obvious. I dont think its a tribute more of a mocking. Which to me is rather ironic. Punk coming back and mocking Dire Straits who probably sold more records than all punk bands put together.
-
I think there is a song from Jean Jacques Goldman where he mentions Mark Knopfler
I went to this topic just to write about "Des Vies" by my beloved Jean-Jacques, and this happened to be mentioned here already:)
-
Maybe there is a thread devoted to this already, or the information is rather daft but here it is: somebody is so fed up with MKs guitar playing that in 1989 he recorded and released this song! From the land of Basques.
http://youtu.be/Hsm68VBDUhA
MARK KNOPFLER NERE ATZETIK DABIL
(El cansino de Mark Knopfler me persigue)
Goizero esnatu ahal irrati piztu eta hor dago Mark.
Egun osoa lan ta lan eta ez inoiz nekatzen antza.
Bere kitarra nola ez entzun, jainkoa legez dago edonon,
bulego, pub, aurrezki kutxa, abio, kotxe eta trena.
Knopfler, zer egin dut, zergatik zaitut beti atzetik?
Knopfler ez jarraitu, gizajo bat naiz, ez besterik.
Erotu ote naiz?
Ezin da erreala izan, hau ametsgaiztoa.
Kalera noa kopetilun, taberna ikusi eta sartu,
kafea eskatu bezain prontu hor daukat berriz nere aiduru.
Knopfler, ez jarraitu mesedez, hautsiko dizut kitarra,
alde egin hemendik, zoaz, zoaz!
MARK KNOPFLER Nere ATZETIK TTC
(The Cansino of Mark Knopfler pursued me)
You can wake up every morning and turn on the radio is there, Mark.
I work a full day of work and never seems to tire.
Do not listen to his guitar, as God is everywhere,
office, pub, savings bank, boot, car and train.
Knopfler, what I do, why you always behind?
Knopfler does not follow, I am a wretched, only.
I would go crazy?
Can not be real, this nightmare.
Kopetilun I'm going to the street, and into bars,
I once asked my coffee as there prontu aiduru.
Knopfler, please do not continue, I'll beat the guitar,
for now, go, go!
Oh, what a coincidence, I'm from the Basque Country and I do speak the Baque language, so I think that I can make a better translation than what google does. I'm afraid that they don't are fans... well I'll translate it ;)
MARK KNOPFLER IS CHASING ME
As soon as I wake up I turn on the radio and Mark is there
He works night and day and he never gets tired, it seems
How can I avoid listening to his guitar, he is anywhere
office, pub, bank, airplane, car and train
What have I done Knopfler, why are you chasing me?
Stop it, I'm just an unfortunate person
Am I crazy?
It can't be true, what I nightmare
I go down to the street crestfallen, I see the pub and I go inside
As soon as I ask for coffee he is already there
knopfler please stop it, I would break your guitar
go away, go away!!!
Enjoy it!! ;D
-
Thank you so much Ibai!
-
I rather liked the line, "like God, he is everywhere" (or, at least, that's what I thought the Google-translation meant ot say). Oh, for someone to discover the real Babel Fish!
-
" What have I done Knopfler, why are you chasing me? "
;D
Thanks Ibai!!!
-
I rather liked the line, "like God, he is everywhere" (or, at least, that's what I thought the Google-translation meant ot say). Oh, for someone to discover the real Babel Fish!
twm, it is really a nice line. And since it is a mistake, free for grabs!
It was a bit peculiar at first, since it is too big a simile for such an occasion, and rather flattering.
On the other hand I remembered how faithful and God fearing Spaniards are considered and I guess that the ultimate comparison (with a load of poetic justice) would be God.
On the other hand (I never mentioned the first hand ;D ) for exactly the same reason it would be considered a blasphemy.
On the other hand (yes, I have three hands-or use my wife's hand) I think that I over did it.
Like Zappa's "Flakes" (one of the Dylan references I had in mind from "Sheik Yerbouti" album) you bring them in to fix it and they wreck it some more, and then charge you double because it is Saturday!
Anyway back to the original topic. This comes from Greece, from a very popular artist. It is a peculiar situation, because there is not a reference to MK or DS, but the lyrics are sung very closely to a DS song (won't tell you which I might be wrong)and the lyrics are very similar to the song I mean. There is some rapping, so skip to 00:53. And please tell me if I am right!
http://youtu.be/cHhPSnfqQuU
English
My Brother
My brother you were carved by sick schemes
you saw hope fading in flames
of civil wars, of economic crises
your land is now dead in the hands of crazy generals
Instead of people you saw insecure ghosts
crumbled cities and barricades
bloody eyes and persecution is forced
my brother, your persecution is enforced.
What to see in the fog, what homeland is this?
But your home isn't there, you are now in another land
Someday you'll come back and everything will be different
there will be no fire, wrath and smoke.
Upon you is carved the baptism of fire
as everything lengthens and you change
and I think your fears and the alerts
that so many you've faced , my brother
Instead of people you saw insecure ghosts
crumbled cities and barricades
bloody eyes and persecution is forced
my brother, your persecution is enforced.
Everything was in vain, everything went wrong
how much can I take, with what heart?
But it's written up there, above the stars' light
that somewhere there's a land for us, my brother..
http://lyricstranslate.com
-
I can definitely hear BIAs in it.
-
Even without hearing/watching the YouTube clip, the references to "brother" and "fog" (= mists) near the start alerted me and the "baptism of fire" phrase had to be a clincher.
Is it Plagiarism? Is it Inspiration? Is it Homage? Is it "Love And Theft"? This has been a hot topic amongst Dylan fans in recent years.
-
Is it Plagiarism? Is it Inspiration? Is it Homage? Is it "Love And Theft"? This has been a hot topic amongst Dylan fans in recent years.
As we seem to have returned to Dylan once more on this thread, I was wondering, do you mean plagiarism on Dylan's part, twm? On most of the songs from "Modern Times" I can hear the melodies from other songs, especially:
"Beyond the Horizon" - "Red Sails in the Sunset"
"When the Deal Goes Down" - "When the Blue of the Night Meets the Gold of the Day"
"Rollin' and Tumblin"
"Thunder on the Mountain" - "Ma Rainey"
"Someday Baby" - "Trouble No More" or " Worried Life Blues"
etc.........
I sometimes wonder how Dylan got away with this, as it states on the liner notes "All songs written by Bob Dylan"! Well he may have changed the lyrics, but the melodies, to me, are very recognisable from other songs!
Now, back to the original MK/DS thread - yes it is obviously BIA and some might also say that BIA itself came from "Bird of Paradise" ! So back to twm's question - is it plagiarism, inspiration or homage?;)
-
Yes, I did mean Dylan - and some people could add dozens of examples to that list.
And, yes, please get back to MK.
-
Yes it is a mystery to me as well, about Dylan. I don't mind so much his obvious "borrowing" as his denial to reveal what is due to the liner notes of each CD, in order for the listener to search for the original. And yes, it is strange that Led Zeppelin, John Lennon, George Harrison and many other musicians had to pay dearly for some of their inspirations (Whole lotta love is miles away from you need love / or Come together using two lines from a Chuck Berry song or My sweet Lord similarities to the Chiffons etc.) And Dylan fans think that it is only natural!
But back to MK!
The Greek song is by Philippos Pliatsikas, no mention of MK or BIA. Actually, I couldn't care less, but a friend of mine has provided lyrics for another song in the album and that is how I came to listen to it. My wife was so convinced it was a plagiarism, that she went as far as reporting it to the MK management, in 2009. She got a reply that they will look into it, but of course I don't know if anything, at all, happened. The CD is still in circulation.
-
Personally I don't see this song as plagiarism...there are so many songs about the horrors of war that to call it plagiarism is walking a fine line. And lets face it the phrase "baptism by fire"..or as Mark used it.."baptisms of fire" is such a common catch-phrase that it just doesn't seem right to refer to it's use as plagiarism (not to mention the phrase 'brothers in arms'). The portrayal of the foggy homeland is a different usage as well...the writer in this song is referring to a war-ravaged landscape..where as Mark is referring to the downed soldier returning to his homeland..his mist-covered mountains..as his final resting place.
As far as "Knopfler is chasing me" goes..I get the impression that the writer heard MFN everywhere he went..that can get on ones last nerve..even an ardent fan's. ;)
-
Hophead, the translation in English of the lyrics came from an "original" source. Upon hearing the song in the original language, Greek, the similarities were more obvious and striking. The careful choosing of the words for the English translation, almost convinces me that the similarities were obvious to at least the translator! In some points the effort to use different words is extremely obvious!
But anyway, we are not here to judge, but how about the music?
-
As far as "Knopfler is chasing me" goes..I get the impression that the writer heard MFN everywhere he went..that can get on ones last nerve..even an ardent fan's. ;)
Yes, I remember very well, it was blasting out of every other car that passed by. I didn't mind too much, because I really liked the song at that time - still do! :)