A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Millionaire Blues on April 11, 2012, 07:54:16 PM
-
Have just seen this on Alan's website...am fairly shocked.......Alan strikes me as a bit of a cock to be honest!!
"While the vast majority of people support what I'm doing with The Straits, there's been one person who's written some quite aggresive emails etc to my and other websites, Guy Fletcher's for one, saying how disgusted he was that we were sullying the legacy of Dire Straits etc. Of course, he hadn't actually seen The Straits, so, I wrote back to him and invited him to a gig. Well, he came along, loved the gig, we met backstage and hugged each other, and now he's a friend of mine"
Apologies is this is old news!!!
MB
-
Hey MB, this was not posted before, thank you! But another quote from Alan Clark's site was, and both of them give a very good picture of this man.
LE
-
Hi LE, glad i aint repeated anything.....after a few beers asnd contemplation i am actually stunned by Alans comments........
MK and DS stand for modesty, humbleness and dignity.....Alans comments fly in the face of this...why make such a comment public....i am astonsihed!!!
x
-
It seems John Illsley wanted to join The Straits but was turned down. How the fuck does that happen. The worlds been turned on its head.
-
So this was someone who wrote to GFs site, not GF himself. Well good on you Alan, winning your fans one by one..'haha!
Banjo, as I mentioned on the other Alan thread, I'd bet my old guitar strings that the rejection went the other way!
-
Lol, at first I also read it as being about guy, but now I assume it is about a fan, also writing to guy
-
Is it really true that Illsley wanted in THE STRAITS but was turned down? I had understood that PCM were unhappy about the formation of THE STRAITS (for which read MK, I guess) on the basis that they were trading on the Dire Straits name. Also, that some people attending might have thought that it was Dire Straits and that MK would be playing. As Illsley was (is?) a "co-owner" of the Dire Straits name, I had assumed that he was of the same view. Maybe I was wrong.
As for Alan Clark (and you folk know much more about this than I do), was he not of the opinion that he had contributed more to the DS sound and to some of the arrangements than he was given credit for?
Finally, I think I've attended three concerts by THE STRAITS (it was to have been four but the house move obviated our attendance at the Newcastle City Hall show, which could have been interesting). I thought they made a very good fist of it, all in all. I'd've said that it would have been impossible to find someone who could replicate the MK sound (and most of you would say it still is, I'm sure) but I thought the guy they found does pretty well. As I've said before, this is not really my favourite style of MK's music but those attending who do like it really responded well. That first major show at the RAH brought an audience response that surprised me (and, I suspect, THE STRAITS themselves). I was close to the front and probably the only person still sitting at the end. OK, it cannot ever be the "original" sound of DS (or even one of the later incarnations of that band) but, with three, and sometimes four, members of one or other of Mark's touring bands in the line-up, that sets them apart from most tribute acts. One could therefore aver that THE STRAITS are a more than a tribute act - more "authentic" in a way.
To be even more contentious on this subject, "The principal may not be there but the musical principles are. Discuss."
-
Alans words about John Illsley - "yes, I did briefly consider using former DS people when I put this band together - John Illsley told me he would "dearly love" to join our band - but I wanted to make the best noise possible and have a nice time while doing so, so I handpicked these guys".
Maybe he felt John being a founder member and I think co owner of the name Dire Straits would be a threat and distraction. Who knows, but if he was part of it could they have used the proper name?
-
My guess is that both Mark and John must consent to the use of the name Dire Straits.
-
Alans words about John Illsley - "yes, I did briefly consider using former DS people when I put this band together - John Illsley told me he would "dearly love" to join our band - but I wanted to make the best noise possible and have a nice time while doing so, so I handpicked these guys".
Maybe he felt John being a founder member and I think co owner of the name Dire Straits would be a threat and distraction. Who knows, but if he was part of it could they have used the proper name?
If this was actually to have been quoted by John Illsley himself, then Alan Clark's response has proven once again what god damn numpty he really is...
-
In fact for a while I could just let them get on with their little project but when you hear such rubbish as this, it really starts to grind on me. Let's remember everyone, DS is nowhere near the same without Mark Knopfler or John Illsley. I hope these guys are happy pretending to be something they are not.
-
TWM, As we all know you are a huge fan of Bob Dylan, it would be interesting to hear how you would feel if some well-known ex members of Bob's band did the same thing that The Straits have done, ie formed a band, played Bob's songs, with BD replaced by a kind of soundalike/lookalike and then hear them state publicly that they can do it better than Bob, etc.....? Would you be comfortable about that? Would you attend their concerts and be as enthusiastic about them as you are about Bob and his current band?
-
TWM, As we all know you are a huge fan of Bob Dylan, it would be interesting to hear how you would feel if some well-known ex members of Bob's band did the same thing that The Straits have done, ie formed a band, played Bob's songs, with BD replaced by a kind of soundalike/lookalike and then hear them state publicly that they can do it better than Bob, etc.....? Would you be comfortable about that? Would you attend their concerts and be as enthusiastic about them as you are about Bob and his current band?
Could not have put it better myself :)
-
TWM, As we all know you are a huge fan of Bob Dylan, it would be interesting to hear how you would feel if some well-known ex members of Bob's band did the same thing that The Straits have done, ie formed a band, played Bob's songs, with BD replaced by a kind of soundalike/lookalike and then hear them state publicly that they can do it better than Bob, etc.....? Would you be comfortable about that? Would you attend their concerts and be as enthusiastic about them as you are about Bob and his current band?
imagine Freddy Koella forming a "Rolling Thunder Never Ending Tour band", together with say,....Jim Keltner, Leon Russel, GE Smith, Kenny Aaronson, Christopher Parker, and then some nobody from the Fiji islands (just as an example) doing the singing...and they would announce to go on a never ending Rolling thunder review, playing all those songs and stating they are as good as the original had ever been, if not even....
-
Before I start, a few preliminary notes:
1. I had anticipated this response
2. I did not exhibit "enthusiasm" (making a "good fist of it" is a bit short of "enthusiasm")
3. Indeed, I have said, in this thread and others, that I do not much care for the DS sound/approach
4. The same therefore applies to THE STRAITS
5. This is not the same as saying that I don't like the songs ...
6. ... nor that I do not appreciate the musicianship involved
Moving now to the comments made, the questions raised and my own response to those.
3. THE STRAITS have not covered MK material post-DS (hence their name, I suppose)
4. Therefore, the comparison is between THE STRAITS and DS, not what followed
5. For simplicity's sake (and at risk of sounding like a journalist), I'll call this the "classic" MK period
6. This classic period was when MK came to fame and acheived his greatest general popularity
7. The comparison should not be with the whole of Dylan's career but with his "classic" period
8. Some would disagree with me but the 1960s is probably the comparable period
9. I have not kept up with THE STRAITS website (maybe once, early on, to check concert times)
10. I was simply unaware of Alan Clark's views
11. I do not intend to look at them now, so will accept the extracts you've cited at face value
12. On that basis, Clark's comments seem pretty foolish to me
13. And unnecessary
14. And also offensive
15. THE STRAITS hold up musically and this is the aspect he should emphasise
16. Infighting and rivalry (if those are the right nouns) will not bolster his case
17. In terms of the music, material performed and the sound, of DS, MK was obviously pivotal
18. John Illsley, in my opinion, was not
19. Perhaps indirectly (organisation, business skills, personal relationship with MK) but not pivotal
20. There are several Dylan tribute acts
21. Unlike THE STRAITS, they do not play large venues or large-scale festivals
22. Some of these acts are well-received by Dylan fans, some are not
23. In terms of Dylan's classic period (see comments above), I have seen several tribute performers
24. Most are not a patch on Dylan but some I have enjoyed greatly
25. Often, it is not the Dylan clone I like but the person who manages to put on their own twist
26. Someone who manages to find something different, or even new, in a song I know well
27. There is a guy called Joel Gilbert who puts on a tribute show called "Highway 61 Revisited"
28. Often, there are former Dylan sidemen (and a sidewoman) in the band
29. No, I've never seen them but, then, they've never played close to me
30. Moreover, on the one occasion I met Mr Gilbert, I was not much taken with him
31. This was before he formed this tribute act
32. Since then, he has produced several DVDs on Dylan's life
33. I bought the first but have bought no others (enough said)
Finally, on attending shows by THE STRAITS, I certainly clapped their performances (as I enjoyed the shows) but not enough to get up and cheer - and certainly not to cheer wildly. Many, many others who attended did, though. You may feel that those people are misguided. They may feel that you're being too purist.
These guys are jobbing musicians. They have not made the sort of money that MK has made. They have to earn a living. If audiences will turn out for shows by THE STRAITS, why would they not go out on stage. In my view, tribute acts are inherently self-limiting and this is true of THE STRAITS. How will they develop, I wonder?
Finally, perhaps the title of this thread should be corrected.
-
Many thanks twm! Just to clear up one point (2) - I didn't intend to infer that you were enthusiastic about The Straits, merely asking if you would be as enthusiastic about a Dylan tribute-type band with Dylan ex-band members as you are about Bob and his current band! :)
-
In my view, tribute acts are inherently self-limiting and this is true of THE STRAITS. How will they develop, I wonder?
I remember reading here that Alan on his site wrote that the Straits will record their own material.
-
Yeah, read that, too.
I suggest this album title :"Strai(gh)t into the bin"
LE
-
My question was, in a sense, rhetorical. These are professional musicians. Incidentally, I suspect that most Dylan tribute acts are not professional (in the sense that they play music as a living) but may be semi-professional, doing the Dylan tribute bit in their spare time and largely for fun. Anyway, THE STRAITS is made up of professional musicians. There is a difference between what they were doing in their DS days [backing MK who, as I said before, was pivotal in DS] and going out as a band in their own right [playing MK's songs and emulating the DS style].
Maybe Clark does see THE STRAITS as a vehicle for promoting his own songs. I guess his success or otherwise will depend on the quality of the songs and the style of the music. It would certainly be a risky strategem. On balance, I suspect that, even if he is able to make a career of that, he would have to build a following in his own right, because the number of DS fans attending would decline.
I'm not sure just how relevant this is but I met at least one person attending a show by THE STRAITS (not my good lady, incidentally) who was there to see Chris White.
-
Must have been our very own Slavi, then! :-*
LE
-
I guess the distaste comes from the perceived "dismissal" of the significance of Marks (incredible) songwriting, his (unique/tasteful/mindblowing) guitar playing and his (sublime/subtle) vocals.
It's distasteful that Alan should suggest he should champion this era of Marks genius and there is even a hint of belittling what Mark achieved. Of course it's also frustrating that Mark tends to ignore the whole DS era too, as though the songs aren't worthy of revisiting or reinventing occasionally.
I'm finding it hard to articulate what I mean - but - the Bob Dylan example is a good one.
What annoys me the most, is i think there will be subliminal effect whereby Mark/Guy will be even less inclined to perform the older songs, and that's a shame.
-
Gosh, how these things come round! Since my last post, this has come to my attention:
http://www.jambands.com/news/2012/04/11/rolling-thunder-revival
It looks like it's a tribute to one phase of Dylan's career (1975-76 and maybe up to early 1978, the years when Stoner played the Tony Garnier role) and it involves just the one member of Dylan band - Stoner himself.
Incidentally, when Stoner left, in roughly mid-1978, his place was taken by Jerry Scheff, formerly of Elvis presley's touring band
-
Finally, perhaps the title of this thread should be corrected.
I just saw you meant that in the literally way! Or is dIRE sTRIATS another cover band I never heard of? ;)
LE
-
hi again... name me another tribute act that would actually get air time on a radio show performing an acoustic track of someone else's song, other than The Straits?
He's performing it as if he wrote the damn thing... It's mental.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odPfXYpVinw
I'm sure these guys think they are more than a tribute.
-
hi again... name me another tribute act that would actually get air time on a radio show performing an acoustic track of someone else's song, other than The Straits?
He's performing it as if he wrote the damn thing... It's mental.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odPfXYpVinw
I'm sure these guys think they are more than a tribute.
Got to admit, he did seem a tad self obsessed, & a little over confident! ::)
Cheers. BBB
-
I just saw you meant that in the literally way! Or is dIRE sTRIATS another cover band I never heard of? ;)
LE
I actually think it is! I believe I saw a tribute band on Youtube calling themselves that.
-
hi again... name me another tribute act that would actually get air time on a radio show performing an acoustic track of someone else's song, other than The Straits?
He's performing it as if he wrote the damn thing... It's mental.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odPfXYpVinw
I'm sure these guys think they are more than a tribute.
If any, this guy (he sure can sing and has a great voice, that's out of question) sounds more like David K. than MK to me. I cannot say anything bad about him, apart from the whole thing with the Straits annoys me from day one. If they should start recording new songs, they should NOT call themselves The Straits anymore.
LE
-
Corrected to what you propose? Also, what do you think of my band proposal? :lol
-
I really cannot accept that there is anything in the way the guy sings or plays that suggests he wrote the song. I fear you are projecting your own thoughts on to what seems, on the surface, a perfectly straightforward rendition of the song.
If I wished to be philosophical about it, I would say that I look for a singer to seem as if he or she owns the song that they are singing. That is not the same as seeming to have written it.
In my field of interest, it is well-known that, while Dylan wrote "All Along The Warchtower", Jimi Hendrix did a version that became more well-known. I can remember, in 1981, being in Mannheim for a Dylan concert. The venue had changed from an outside stadium to the Eisstadion. I went with a German friend, who stood on one side of me, with two young Americans, soldiers on leave, on the other. When Dylan played "Watchtower", one said to the other, "Hey, he's playing a Hendrix song". He probably added "Far out!" or something similar. When I pointed out that Dylan had written the song, the one nearer to me asked, "Really?". On being told that this was so, he said "Wow!" and told his friend. Dylan had adopted and adapted the Hendrix version for his own live shows. Dylan may have written the song but Hendrix "owned" and Dylan had responded to that.
The guy in that video sang it competently but there is no way that he "owned" the song.
-
Let's remember everyone, DS is nowhere near the same without Mark Knopfler or John Illsley. I hope these guys are happy pretending to be something they are not.
+1
So true in fact, that during the record run of concerts in Sydney during 1986, John actually said words to that effect himself. The TV reporter asked him about where the band would be if Mark wasn't part of it. And John's reply was along the lines of 'what do you mean if Mark wasn't in it - There wouldn't be a band without Mark' - or similar. But that is exactly what he meant.
This whole saga was part of the motivation for starting AMIT TV, and releasing the material in a chronological order as we have proposed to do. People in any doubt about where the drive/life/success of the band, came from over time, can see it evolve, as we all did back in the day.
-
A proposal about AMIT TV? I'd never seen that mentioned before. Sounds pretty cool
-
http://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php/topic,2351.0.html
:)
-
Very cool ! :) When will AMIT TV be officially launched?
-
Saturday 14th April 2012
-
I don't mind that some former members of DS play together with others, why not? They are good musicians (especial Chris White) and they don't have to sit at home because Mark doesn't want to regroup DS anymore. It would be nice if they write and play their own music and sell their own albums, there sure will be people who will buy them! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Fieneke2/Emoticons/band.gif) BUT........I don't like the fact that they use the name The Straits! It is confusing and misleading! >:(
I was a few weeks ago at the barbershop and the lady which always cut my hair and knows I am a big fan of Mark said "Hey that is wonderful news that Mark is coming soon to our country to perform again!"....I thought what? ....... What is she talking about and why don't I know about this!! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Fieneke2/Emoticons/w00t.gif) Then suddenly I remembered that The Straits would be here for a performance and told her that Mark wasn't involved! I have the feeling there are people attending a concert of The Straits without knowing that Mark won't be there!
Without Mark, The Straits is just a good cover band!(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Fieneke2/Emoticons/confused01-1.gif)
Fieneke
-
The vitriol that I've seen on You Tube in reaction to postings of the The Straits set at the RAH in May 2011 and subsequent appearances is somewhat understandable given some of Alan's comments and the what appears to be an undercurrent of resentment that he, Chris and Phil aren't entitled to perform the compositions that generated their reputation and fame without MK's permission. That said, there is some precedence for bands or their offshoots touring successfully and finding a great depth of fan acceptance of live sets that consist entirely of back catalogue. Fleetwood Mac comes toured as kind of mini Mac for a number of years without Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham. Fans loved the music but left venues with a sense of longing or wistfulness that the FMac in its complete form would find a way to tour together.
CSNY was held hostage from touring a number of times because of Neil Young's refusal to tour because he didn't hear the muse. Does anyone feel Crazy Horse should refrain from playing Neil Young penned songs which they recorded with him because he doesn't tour with them anymore ? Bruce Palmer and Dewey Martin the drummer and bass player from Buffalo Springfield tried to tour playing back catalogue under the band's name without Young and Stephen Stills. Young and Stills weren't bothered: if fans wanted to hear Bluebird and Mr. Soul performed by the band without them it was fine by them, they'd moved on to solo work and later CSNY. If you attended either a solo or CSNY performance of that era there was a deafening absence of Springfield tunes. Maybe a concession to the crowd by playing Mr. Soul, but nothing else.
Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker suffered financially and musically because Eric Clapton refused to entertain a reunion first when he sullied himself playing with Delaney and Bonnie, and even later when he toured with his studio band and rendered canned pop like performances. Would have been interesting if the two had toured as Cream with someone else as lead guitar. Actually, Bruce tried to play some Cream in live performance with Mountain and West, Bruce and Lange. I heard them play Crossroads and it was great. Despite a world wide appetite for a reunion it took until Ginger and Jack were in their 70's and of ill health for Eric to realize that the fan base that had supported him for almost 50 years wanted to hear Cream again.
FMac, Savoy Brown, Pink Floyd, Foghat and other bands missing key members were able to tour under their iconic band monikers because they had legal rights to a name not because their musicianship was necessarily the core of the sound of the back catalogue. I'm wondering if the The Straits would generate such harsh criticism if they limited their sets to tunes where they had significant composition rights. Did anyone hold their nose when Squeeze continued performing without Jools Holland ? How about when they toured without Chris Difford ?
The irony of Steve Ferrone handling the drum kit is that he'd love to tour regularly with Tom Petty. Mike Campbell had to cool his heels while Petty toured with the Wilburys. Difford is producing a new show about him and Squeeze that doesn't include Glenn Tilbrook. Are Squeeze fans throwing rocks at Difford ? Is Jools Holland's nose bent out of shape ?
The Straits aren't like Australian Pink Floyd which make every effort hit every note, movement and look like the Floyd. Tribute bands attempt in every way to mimic the 'real' act on stage. Terence Reis doesn't wear a headband and red Reebok workout shoes. His natural voice is similar to MK's in timbre and its hard to detect mimicry in the way he sings, or for that matter plays the DS standards. Three members of the band (although Phil Palmer wants to stay home rather than tour) were part of DS and recorded and performed the tunes that we so love. Their rendition of the DS catalogue is outstanding and after the RAH performance appears to be getting better and tighter. It's not a question of closing your eyes and believing that its 1985 and MK is effortlessly running the fingerboard of a Schecter Strat. The essence is the music and playing it right and with integrity. The Straits seem to employ that spirit, and frankly its a joy to hear such great music played with new energy by really capable musicians who are passionate about the DS legacy.
MK found far more artistic passion in his solo work, and always has starting with his movie compositions (Local Hero) in 1983. The man is brilliant, a blessing to those who love his music and his artistry. That said, he doesn't want to tour performing the DS classics, doesn't want to play with his old bandmates. Frankly, those of us who have seen MK since the Sailing to Philadelphia tour, and this may be blasphemy to this lot, have seen a mellowness in MK and his playing (like all of us he's aged) that really isn't a fit for the way we remember the DS sound; The Straits are preserving the sound and keeping it bright. Whatever animosity MK might feel in the vein that his former "sidemen" are capitalizing on his work, or "his" band while understandable is really a bit dismissive of his three colleagues, their competency and the fond desires of the DS fans to hear the music played passionately.
-
It seems John Illsley wanted to join The Straits but was turned down. How the fuck does that happen. The worlds been turned on its head.
I actually don't believe that ever happened. I reckon it was more like JI wanted to join the band but found out MK wouldn't, so of course realised it was a meaningless and pointless.
**** Fordie runs off and hides ;)
-
It seems John Illsley wanted to join The Straits but was turned down. How the fuck does that happen. The worlds been turned on its head.
I actually don't believe that ever happened. I reckon it was more like JI wanted to join the band but found out MK wouldn't, so of course realised it was a meaningless and pointless.
**** Fordie runs off and hides ;)
never EVER would john be turned down, that is a shame that someone would even consider coming up with a lie like that. why not ask the man himself?
-
It seems John Illsley wanted to join The Straits but was turned down. How the fuck does that happen. The worlds been turned on its head.
Yeah, it sounds like "It seems Mark Knopfler wanted to join The Straits but was turned down" ;D
-
I found this video at YT. As I said in my comment, it is my opinion that they are a cover band, but it seems "The Straits" have another opinion! :o
Also at about 5.07 Alan makes a false comment and please watch his unpleasant grin! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/Fieneke2/Emoticons/w00t.gif)
v2vyQklU458
Well if Alan thinks they are as good as Dire Straits, then let them stop playing Mark
-
LOL! They're laughing and suggesting that "Maybe Mark wasn't such a big part of DS after all". I think Alan is being disrespectful here. I don't see what he gets out of saying something like that, but he looks satisfied when he say it, so I suppose he is...
-
We already discussed this some time ago and the usual suspects told that "alan is just joking" and the other usual suspects told that "he