A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Jules on May 03, 2012, 10:05:28 AM
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I
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What I
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I love Infidels and the demos "Rough cuts"
I don't know if any are interested by who play what, but when you have 2 great guitarist like here, I like searching which part is Mark and which part is Taylor.
Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes it's not.
I have to check it again before listing the songs, but I remember asking myself several times if the sweetheart like you end solo was Mark or Taylor.
I'd say it's 80-90% sure Mick Taylor, but ....
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Completely agree with you JF. I love the Infidels album, and the guitar parts are sublime.
I wonder how Mark would've mixed differently? Probably would add a lute or whistle.
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I always wondered who played that kind-of-reagge guitar in "Man gave name to all the animals" in the Slow train coming record. It may be MK because he´s the only credited guitar player (besides Bob) in that record, but it doesnt sounds like MK...
In Infidels I´d say that all the slide guitars are Mick Taylor, and the rest, if it sounds fingerpicking, you know ;D
I wonder how it would had sounded with Billy Gibbons as MK always says he wanted to propose, but Dylah already had Mick for that sessions...
And now, I copy here some information that TWM posted in other thread that is relevant here:
There had been a short article in THE SUN for 13 June 1983, headlined "Dylan Disc In Dire Straits". It suggested that there been a disagreement between Dylan and Mark, that Mark had walked out to tour with Dire Straits and thatr Dylan was miffed, especially as this project was running late.
In response, Phonogram issued the press release I mentioned. It said that Dylan had approached Mark in January 1983and that Mark's management had cleared some space in his diary by moving seven Dutch dates planned for early May to early June. There was a contract between Dylan and Mark specifying the dates Mark was available and allowing Dylan to take on anyone else if he wanted. It also says that the album was recorded between 11 April and 8 May, that Mark had finished his contribution as required and that Dylan was currently mixing the album in New York.
The contact at the Phonogram Press Office was Mariella Frostrup. I didn't get this information until 25 June. I now wish that I had called her.
Subsequently, Mark was interviewed in a French magazine or on French radio and said he was unhappy with the additional mixing done on the album. It is clear that mark had played the interviewer recordings of his own mix for the album. I can't find the specific source of this information.
Can someone here help with the details of this?
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I always wondered who played that kind-of-reagge guitar in "Man gave name to all the animals" in the Slow train coming record. It may be MK because he
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Some of you may know (though many may not) that I used to write a Dylan newsletter called "The Wicked Messenger"; hence "twm", by the way.
Now "jbaent" has started this thread, I've looked back at what I wrote about it in TWM back then. Each TWM was an A4 page of typed news snippets, about 40 pages in all in 1983. More than half have something on what became "INFIDELS". There had been vague rumours of a new album at the end of 1982. The first "real" mention came on 15 January 1983 and Mark's name first came in on 17 February 1983. Alan Clark is first mentioned on 9 March 1983. And so the story builds, bit by incomplete bit - but there are quite a lot of bits and many words - until November 1983. I actually found it a lot of fun re-reading this material, so many years on. Thanks, "Jbaent" for stimulating me to do so.
There are a few more mentions in 1984, by the way, such as the original artwork with Polaroid snaps of Mark and others, but the bulk of the interesting stuff was in 1983..
If anyone is interested in the history of this album, as the news filtered out to collectors, with a host of snippets, what the participants said and lots more, I am quite prepared to scan the pages and pass the sacns to someone else to post here. I am simply not up to that job technically.
If nobody is interested, I shall not be offended.
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Of course we are interested mr twm!!! I'd love to read pls. :)
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TWM,
If you have the time and patience to scan those pages, that would be amazing. I don't know what kind of scanning software you have, but if you could scan the pages by using OCR software (Optical Character Recognition), then the text will converted into reusable text that can be edited (and then copied and pasted to a website for instance). There is also software (some free ones mentioned here http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/top-5-free-ocr-software-tools-to-convert-your-images-into-text-nb/ (http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/top-5-free-ocr-software-tools-to-convert-your-images-into-text-nb/)) that can convert pages that have been scanned as images into text. Just make sure you scan them well (good resolution and contrast).
If these newsletters don't already exists on the Internet, I suppose a lot of Dylan fans would love get access to them.
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Everything regarding not only the Infidels but also the Slow train coming records are more than welcome and would be of big interest to us, for sure!!!
The Mariella Fostrup "comunicado" that I quoted from you is also of interest if you still have it.
I read someone already offered to receive the scans, I offer myself too if its needed.
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same here.
also, those polaroids you mention, or those "regular" pictures, that have circulated?
Infidels and Slow train were the albums that brought me to dylan, even though my dad had bought me Nashville Skyline as a present earlier. i liked it, a lot even, but i far more like the two other ones, for obvious reasons)
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and i believe it was mentioned before, but it is hilarious how jerry mentions how he would like to use MK and how Bob really knows everything. and bob's reply was "yeah he does me better then anybody" :-)
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part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2icVV5saTY
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part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=bwqesj2v0pk&NR=1
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Scans of TWMs: I'll do these scans but it won't be immediately. Maybe over the next week or two. I have other demands on my time at present, so can't predict when I'll have the time.
OCR: I have a reasonably good scanner but I've never sought to OCR anything, so don't know if it will do that. At the moment, I don't really have the time to find out and then learn. Also, the TWMs are not straight typing but have a masthead, headlines and some illustrations. Having moved house and with masses of "stuff" still boxed, the only TWMs I have available for that period are photocopies - some quite faint. If I scan them, I can almost certainly improve the legibility using a function that is simple and with which I am familiar. This will speed things up.
Mariella Frostrup press release: I am afraid not. It is possible that I may come to write something about INFIDELS for one of the Dylan magazines and it would make an illustration. I'd rather a scan was not yet "in circulation", as it were.
Polaroids: There were four of these, taken in Power Station Studios, and they were intended for the original artwork of the album. I don't know how common they are but one shows Mark and Bob looking at one of the polaroids and I seem to recall that they have been used on bootleg CDs of the INFIDELS out-takes and alternate takes. Was it called OUTFIDELS?
Slow Train Coming: I didn't start "The Wicked Messenger" until late 1980, so it doesn't have the equivalent sort of material as for INFIDELS. I did TWM for something like 28 years and the earlier issues were quite rudimentary in presentation, as you will discover, but the later ones were more "professional" in appearance.
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Just as a test, I've scanned the first 5 issues of TWM that mention a "new" album, that is, up to the first mention of Mark Knopfler.
The way TWM worked was that every single item of news, rumour or whatever was numbered, not just every issue. This meant that, for example, TWM #89 (the one with the first mention of MK in this context) has three items of news or whatever. They are Item Numbers 429, 430 and 431, in a series that went back to Item No.1 in TWM #1. I did it this way to allow easier cross-referencing over the years. It sounds complicated but, in practice, is quite straightforward.
I noticed, as I glanced at other issues that there was a reference to Mark Knopfler going into the studio with Dylan in Item Number 105 (TWM # 14, in April 1981). So I scanned TWM # 14, too.
Anyway, I've done these 6 scans as an experiment. I do not know how to put them difrectly into this thread (or any thread) but I can send them as an attachment to an e-mail. If I did that, is anyone out there able to post them in this thread. Pottel?
I need your assurance that these will not be OCR'd. That is IMPORTANT to me.
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THE problem with that twm is that THE moment Things hit the www, they are out of our hands. So even if all of us stick to your wishes, it will happen somewhere.
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It's not that I'm unhappy with these being seen elsewhere. After all, the TWMs were made generally available but they were circulated a ta time when everything was done by photocopying. They were never written for, or intended for, worldwide circulation. I wrote them for a very specific audience, namely a circle of Dylan friends and their friends, so I was able to make assumptions about what they would already know and which things, however obscure, would be interesting and new to them. In a similar way, they were written at a very specific time, when things were not so easily available through the internet, so that there was a certain "sense of wonder" about people sharing little snippets of knowledge from here and there and about building a picture from those disparate scraps of information. I wouldn't want to lose that. Also, there were quite a few factual mistakes made over the years and views expressed that I no longer hold. These make it all a little difficult for me.
Perhaps I should limit it to the parts of any TWM that relate to MK and what became INFIDELS, rather than all the other stuff, which probably would be of much less intereste to AMIT readers anyway, especially those who will not be enthralled by the prospect of seeing Dylan's name so prominent on this site.
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We are happy to read about Dylan, most of us when its related to everything he and MK did together, about what Bob did, do or will do alone, well, some people will be happy as they could be fans, but not everybody. :)
However, feel free, we have specific threads to not related MK topics, and you can use them for everything you need, and of course, some bits here and there are welcome, just try to made links between the conversation and the bits about Dylan ;D
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... which is what I try to do.
And, actually, what I said was about the TWMs. I think it would sensible to limit things to the INFIDELS-related items. I'll see what I can manage.
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... which is what I try to do.
And, actually, what I said was about the TWMs. I think it would sensible to limit things to the INFIDELS-related items. I'll see what I can manage.
Did you have anything about The Bootleg Series 1-3 and Down in the groove, where MK plays too?
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I actually wrote a 42-page booklet on BOOTLEG SERIES VOL.1-3 ("Back of the Tapestry") but it was a private project so not generally available, although it sold out (and that was several hundred copies). However, it was about the whole box set in general, including a track-by-track commentary.
DOWN IN THE GROOVE was a bit of a hotch-potch in terms of its recording sources, so didn't really lend itself to the sort of coverage that INFIDELS got.
Thinking about INFIDELS, I rather favour limiting what I scan to just the bits about that album, not the whole of each issue of TWM, because the rest of the content will be "Dylan-heavy" and of much less interest to most AMIT-ers. Once I've sorted out how I'm going to do that, I'll pass the material to jbaent to arrrange to post it here, if that's OK with him and everyone else.
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I've sent the first "episode" and await developments.
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am feverishly awaiting those scans..
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The first few are not necessarily the most interesting. And .....
>>>> As a reader, you should not assume that everything in TWM was 100% accurate. The content was based not only on news reports but also rumour and, to a much lesser degree, speculation. Generally, the rumour and speculation had some basis in fact (the past accuracy of the source, Dylan's known way of doing things - even if occasionally wayward or "off the wall" - and how they fitted with "pointers" from those thought to be close to Dylan's circles) but they were just rumour and speculation.
>>>> This was all a very long time ago. Younger AMIT-ers in particular may need to adjust for the passage of time. There was no instant communication between fans. You simply could not turn on a device such as this computer and be intouch with others. It was all done by "snail mail", by telephone and by fax. There were no mobile (or cell) phones. There were almost no home photocopiers.
>>>> These early TWMs were all composed on a typewriter, so the opportunity to correct typing errors or to revise the text was very limited indeed. When I read some of these early issues now, I wince inwardly. And that's just the "technical side".
>>>> When I re-read them now, I am struck by some of the attitudes expressed and views held. It is very instructive . "I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now".
Please treat me gently.
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Hope this works Ok...
(http://s2.subirimagenes.com/otros/previo/thump_7678427infidels-evolvespage.jpg) (http://www.subirimagenes.com/otros-infidelsevolvespage-7678427.html)
(http://s2.subirimagenes.com/otros/previo/thump_7678429infidels-evolvespage.jpg) (http://www.subirimagenes.com/otros-infidelsevolvespage-7678429.html)
(http://s3.subirimagenes.com:81/otros/previo/thump_7678431infidels-evolvespage.jpg) (http://www.subirimagenes.com/otros-infidelsevolvespage-7678431.html)
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it took a while (10 to 20 seconds) but then it shows and works just fine, thnx jbaent!
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Thanks TWM for doing this! I think it's interesting. It's written in a journalistic and ever-so enthusiastic style :)
Do I also detect a certain suspicion regarding Mark's involvement in the Infidels production? Hehe. I guess with the success of Dire Straits in those days, Mark Knopfler was the epitome of slick capitalism, a bit hard to swallow for 68ers and Dylan fans.
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There's more to come - quite a bit more, actually.
I'm not sure whether to take the "journalistic" tag as a compliment or the opposite. I am not a journalist by profession.
I guess I was a bit suspicious of MK's involvement but much less than I would have been, had Mr Bob gone for Frank Zappa or David Bowie. Elvis Costello, perhaps but the other two reeked of near-desperation to me. Or, knowing Dylan as I think I do, maybe he was simply looking for some radical shift in his musical perspective.
Most likely, my concern was about the possibility of "over-production" in the studio. As a very broad generalisation (and the "Spector sound" and the "Sgt Pepper era" Beatles sound notwithstanding), I generally prefer simpler production. That was harder to achieve in that period. Studios were becoming increasingly complex. Sometimes it seemed as though the technology determined what took place rather than the technology serving the artist. I had a feeling of uneasiness.
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Journalistic was meant in a positive way. Didn't say "journalese" :)
Know what you mean by "over-production". The most "produced" Dire Straits album was Love Over Gold, that came out not so long before Infidels, so your fears at the time were justified. Nevertheless, Dire Straits kept a pretty sparse production style overall through their time compared with a lot of other artists. I too prefer simpler production. Or, it can be complex, but not so polished. A few rough edges only add to the charm.
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Strange, I had expected "on every street" in your post jackal...
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I've now compiled Part 2 of the contnuing saga of INFIDELS and passed it along to jbaent.
Along the way, I've had to do a bit of editing, as some individual "Items" included thoughts that were sparked by something I'd written about INFIDELS but not actually to do with that album. I believe I have included those elements that might just be of interest to AMIT readers (and possibly some things that are of less interest).
I should also say that, in 1983, we were beginning to hear about a 5-LP set of archive Dylan material that was being compiled. This became BIOGRAPH, released in 1985, but, at the time, we didn't know its title or when it would appear. For a good deal of 1983, we didn't know that the album with Mark would be called INFIDELS, either. Consequently, I used "NEW ALBUM" as a heading for items dealing with both. Sometimes, I headed one as "NEW ALBUM - ONE" and the other "NEW ALBUM - TWO". You'll find an example in Part 2 of "INFIDELS EVOLVES".
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I tried to insert the images as last time but they were too big and resized the forum, so I
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Polaroids: There were four of these, taken in Power Station Studios, and they were intended for the original artwork of the album. I don't know how common they are but one shows Mark and Bob looking at one of the polaroids and I seem to recall that they have been used on bootleg CDs of the INFIDELS out-takes and alternate takes. Was it called OUTFIDELS?
One version was indeed called "Outfidels Intakes", the other "Rough Cuts". I'm not sufficiently tech savvy to be able to attach the images directly but these 2 links will give you the two that I have seen- not great quality admittedly, but may be of interest.
http://www.bobsboots.com/CDs/r-27f.jpg
http://www.bobsboots.com/CDs/r-27b.jpg
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I managed to remember how I did with the TWM files last time...
Here you have them, enjoy, and thanks to TWM!!!
Click on them to make them bigger and readable :)
(http://s2.subirimagenes.com/otros/previo/thump_7697463infidels-evolves2pag.jpg)
(http://s3.subirimagenes.com:81/otros/previo/thump_7697464infidels-evolves2pag.jpg)
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Hey fat bob, not seen you around before. Welcome!
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I don't collect bootlegs but I have a (very) few. "ROUGH CUTS" is one that I have. In fact, MK signed the reverse of one of those inserts for me, though he probably didn't realise it at the time.
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Sorry for the delay, folks, but "INDIDELS EVOLVES #3" has now been done. I will send it to jbaent shortly.
Incidentallly, I couldn't read either method of displaying "INFIDELS EVOVLES #2", though I could read "INFIDELS EVOLVES #1". This may be something that only affects me (an e-mail took so long to reach me today that the sender telphoned to ask why I hadn't responded) but, if anyone else is having trouble, please let jbaent know.
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Twm, do you have any inside info (Bob or otherwise) on the MK/Emmylou sessions and tour?
Seeing as both these artists kicked their early days around with the Bob, I wonder if they did much reminiscing?
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I'm afraid not. We did catch the MK/ELH concert in Manchester and I enjoyed that.