A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Rail King on August 06, 2012, 11:13:05 AM
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I just read this interview with David Knopfler (German): http://www.general-anzeiger-bonn.de/news/interviews/Meister-der-intimen-Stimmung-article546366.html
And I wonder what must have happened between the two brothers. Among other things, David claims that "Mark always was a strange character". He says they don't see each other anymore. And when the interviewer says: "That's sad.", he just says: "Not really".
Now, to treat your brother as if he didn't exist (or to be treated by your brother like you didn't exist) surely IS sad. The two of them must have a serious problem, and I wonder if we'll ever find out what it is.
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This is an old article, but once again that old theme keeps cropping up and David is only too happy to talk about Mark in a not-so-nice way! In any case it is a sad situation.
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I thought meanwhile they solved their difficulties of Dire-Straits-Times...but the article ist from Oct. 2011, so it seems to be still the old problems...very sad
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Fact is that Mark never says a bad thing about David, while David does about Mark at every single possible occasion. So the question is who really is the "strange character"..... :disbelief
LE
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One wonders if even at serious times like MK's motorbike accident if it ever pulls them together... I mean surely he visited him in hospital.
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I have followed DK on his Twitter site from time to time and he is always highly critical of the US. I know, I know, we are a mother lode for criticism over here, but DK always strikes me as a pinecone up your arse kinda guy! (Sorry if this is inappropriate, but he sorta sends me round the bend.)
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Pretty same situation with me and my brother. We don't see each other for about 10 years now. You just can't choose your brother, what can I say. Anyway, I think even if we want to start conversation, there will be not so much to say. C'est la vie!
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Fact is that Mark never says a bad thing about David, while David does about Mark at every single possible occasion. So the question is who really is the "strange character"..... :disbelief
LE
I recall an article from 2000, when STP promo where MK was supposedly talking in a very very angry way about David. I recall something like "He was living of charity (MK was probably talking about the DS rights David still had at that moment from the years he was in the band) but its a very expensive charity and that has to end"
I say supposedly because that article was very rare and a bit suspicious.
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JBaent, I'd love to see that article if it is still around somewhere. I have a hard time imagining that Mark would keep his brother from getting well-earned money (that is, money made from the first two Dire Straits records, which were of course featured on the "Sultans" compilation). I'm wondering how that all went. You can't just "re-arrange" copyrights, either you have them or you don't. Really curious.
By the way, I always wondered if "Pay to Play" was about David.
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"Everybody pays", I meant.
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JBaent, I'd love to see that article if it is still around somewhere. I have a hard time imagining that Mark would keep his brother from getting well-earned money (that is, money made from the first two Dire Straits records, which were of course featured on the "Sultans" compilation). I'm wondering how that all went. You can't just "re-arrange" copyrights, either you have them or you don't. Really curious.
By the way, I always wondered if "Pay to Play" was about David.
David's hardly on poverty row though, is he? Seems like he's playing the sympathy card. :'( ::)
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who said on here that DK's tour was promoted on the MK official site? i looked but could not find it...
as someone higher up mentioned, you cannot simply "rearrange" copyrights?
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everything can be re-arranged but of course not unilaterally. If someone is willing to waive his rights, of course, he will do it only after satisfactory financial arrangements
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who said on here that DK's tour was promoted on the MK official site? i looked but could not find it...
It's still on MKNews:
DAVID KNOPFLER TOUR: During October David Knopfler and Harry Bogdanovs will be doing a number of acoustic gigs in Germany plus one in Switzerland. For dates, etc, click here. (24/06/12)
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surely that would not happen if mark does not approve?
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JBaent, I'd love to see that article if it is still around somewhere.
I remember this article because I translated it from English for Russian fan website. It's article ("Dance of the millions from anti-hero" or like that) by Jip Golsteijn, De Telegraaf, September 2000. But the text is lost.
I just can translate it back to English and Mark's words regarding David were: "He had already eaten his charity bread and butter, a lot, and it was very expensive, but it was charity bread and butter"
P.S. cannot believe it but it's possible to read (Google translation from Russian to English)
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmarkknopfler.ru%2Frus%2Farticles_200009dd_detelegraph.htm
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I found this link: http://home.kpn.nl/jekkie/Mark%20Knopfler/Tel160900.txt
It is easier to read but still doesn't make much sense to me. Is this a legitimate interview? Seems fishy to me.
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sadly enough that journalist died...
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in 2002
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I can never imagine MK saying things like these in this open manner - not because I am a fanboy :disbelief , but because I read so many interviews and statements from MK over the years that I somehow can really recognize his style - this whole stuff seems made up, sorry to say...
LE
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or not correctly translated to begin with (i do not mean you ustas)
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Hmmmm. Still sceptical.. Talking about money in that open way, admitting that they did not speak to each other during the tour for such a long time... critizing in such an open way what the Eagles did...
Is this the only scource where MK talks in a bad manner about David (which was the part that got this interview thing started...) I always thought he might not want to talk about it but never would say anything bad or negative... it was always in the line of "he is doing fine now and does what he always wanted to do, composing his own stuff...")
But hey, today is ok, today is just fine.... :lol :lol :lol :lol
LE
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Fact is that Mark never says a bad thing about David, while David does about Mark at every single possible occasion. So the question is who really is the "strange character"..... :disbelief
LE
Naaaah, that's not entirely true... I visited more than one DK show and once and a while DK announced Wild West End as a song "well, this one was written by Mark... ehm... Knopfler I suppose" (after he made the same joke about a Springsteen song). Imo the articles are a bit biased...
Anyway, in general I think DK does a great job and in this type of business, you can't be someone else's slave if you have your own music. He would have killed himself when it comes to creativity when he'd have been playing with MK over the years without having his own stuff. :)
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I read the original article in english, found it in google news at that time. Never asked myself if it was fake, but I was surprised about how he talked about David. I thought that maybe he was pissed off by the interviewer...
I suppose that Mark was angry - if I remember David had a claim against Mark regarding royalties from SOS compilation release. This conflict was in 1999 or 2000.
P.S.
http://web.archive.org/web/19990427152800/http://www.knopfler.com/scam.html
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Strange interview, hard to believe.
But if the song Let's See You isn't about Dave then I'm the son of a Privateer!
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After reading the text by Anna Knopfler (David's wife?), I wonder if the same situation applies to Pick Withers as he'd be the "fourth quarter" of the early DS lineup:
And all this when David has an iron clad contract obliging their company to pay him
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It's certainly not nice to bring a family dispute into the public domain. Whoever is to blame, it is none of our business but very much a personal matter and should be kept as such. Publishing things such as this on an official web site is not the way to go. Poor show.
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It's certainly not nice to bring a family dispute into the public domain. Whoever is to blame, it is none of our business but very much a personal matter and should be kept as such. Publishing things such as this on an official web site is not the way to go. Poor show.
I totally agree with you, dmg! Let's also remember there are always two sides to these matters, but in any case it is no business of ours!
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It's certainly not nice to bring a family dispute into the public domain. Whoever is to blame, it is none of our business but very much a personal matter and should be kept as such. Publishing things such as this on an official web site is not the way to go. Poor show.
I totally agree with you, dmg! Let's also remember there are always two sides to these matters, but in any case it is no business of ours!
Totally agree with you both:
1. It's none of our business
2. Publishing stuff like this is not nice
3. Story has 2 sides
4. If something is going on, we can't judge. You have to be a lawyer with knowledge of all contracts and even then it's hard to find out what's legal or not, and what's someone's right or not
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It's certainly not nice to bring a family dispute into the public domain. Whoever is to blame, it is none of our business but very much a personal matter and should be kept as such. Publishing things such as this on an official web site is not the way to go. Poor show.
I totally agree with you, dmg! Let's also remember there are always two sides to these matters, but in any case it is no business of ours!
Totally agree with you both:
1. It's none of our business
2. Publishing stuff like this is not nice
3. Story has 2 sides
4. If something is going on, we can't judge. You have to be a lawyer with knowledge of all contracts and even then it's hard to find out what's legal or not, and what's someone's right or not
Laws on copyright/rights for royalties are very, very difficult. You have to consider a million of things, and maybe then there are a few things you might forget. I am studying Laws, since a few months but officially in september and I can tell you: It is not easy. The band members, label, record company, managers, engineers in studio's.. Everybody wants their part. And as Ingrid says: We don't know the story. We can talk about it, but you can't say if you don't have the contracts: It is Mark/David his fault. Luckily we won't do that either :)
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everybody missed this sentence?
"I disagree profoundly with the way Mark is dealing (or rather not dealing) with this but I still love him to bits. As our father always said ... where there's a will there's a way. .."
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his reply is actually very well written i think.
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From the moment one or more of the person involved did speak about it I think we can discuss and to try to understand what happened, how and why.
Like I'd like to understand what happened to Pick and Alan.
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It doesn't matter if it's well written or not, it's a matter of bad taste of his wife (first) to talk in public about private matters and later he also wrote something about it, but way more sensitive than his wife did. I suppose he didn't have a choice, his wife already made a mess of it so he had to calm it down a little.
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his reply is actually very well written i think.
He's very adept at putting himself in a good light, I would say - making himself Mr Good Guy!
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I did an interview with David for some years ago. And he did answer about his relationship with Mark and about the years in Dire Straits.
Check out this link: http://mknorge.com/intervjuer/david-knopfler
Greetings from the norwegian MK fanclub :)
Kay
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I did an interview with David for some years ago. And he did answer about his relationship with Mark and about the years in Dire Straits.
Check out this link: http://mknorge.com/intervjuer/david-knopfler
Greetings from the norwegian MK fanclub :)
Kay
From the above listed interview:
What person/s do you look up to?
Anyone taller than me.
Sounds pretty arrogant to me!
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I did an interview with David for some years ago. And he did answer about his relationship with Mark and about the years in Dire Straits.
Check out this link: http://mknorge.com/intervjuer/david-knopfler
Greetings from the norwegian MK fanclub :)
Kay
From the above listed interview:
What person/s do you look up to?
Anyone taller than me.
Sounds pretty arrogant to me!
Haha, it's just British humour ;D
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him being a big dylan fan makes me wonder if he went ot check them out last november??
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him being a big dylan fan makes me wonder if he went ot check them out last november??
And probably will go backstage to say Hi!
:lol :lol :lol
Anyway, after all that happened, David was interviewed by the BBC for a special programma about brothers in rock bands and when asked about MK, David mentioned that they see each other in weddings, funerals etc etc and they salute each other.
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Nothing wrong with discussing this
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You've probably seen this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muo7bm3Ax68&feature=related) already, but it's funny how he imitates Mark at 2:02. "Hello David ..."
By that way, I've writtten do David yesterday and got a very nice email back. I don't want to post it here for privacy reasons, and David didn't want to go into (legal) details anyway, but he seems to regret the fact very much that they hardly talk to each other and he still hopes for a "Hollywood ending". He says he really doesn't know why that's not on the table for Mark.
Personally, I wouldn't want them to reanimate Dire Straits or anything, I'd just want them to get along with each other.
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It isn't any of our business and there is more to life than worry about whether Mark and David are going to be friends again.
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It isn't any of our business and there is more to life than worry about whether Mark and David are going to be friends again.
couldn't agree more :)
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It isn't any of our business and there is more to life than worry about whether Mark and David are going to be friends again.
couldn't agree more :)
Wise words Val!
I think we better close this discussion, as it's none of our business. We agreed not go into private lives/matters of MK and bandmembers (check the AMIT-rules) and I think it's going to far now. We don't know what exactly happened, we will never know. Every single word written/spoken about it by the ones involved will be politically correct and doesn't have to be (totally) true.
So discussion closed, we keep it online for some time. If it goes on, we will remove it from here.
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!
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Ingrid, if you really (and the rest of mods too) consider that this thread talks too much about their private life, why leave it here closed?
What makes sense according to it its to delete it totally.
Anyway, its a delicate matter, so if its consider an intrusion in their private life, delete the whole thread. That would make more sense that closing it to discussions.
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Agree with jbaent. Leave it here for discussion, or delete it completely
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It isn't any of our business and there is more to life than worry about whether Mark and David are going to be friends again.
I disagree, this part of the Story.
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for he moment i locked the topic. need to talk to the other editors.
imho as long as no addresses or phone numbers are being posted, or band members are being insulted i see no reason to delete this, but this is a community effort so it ain't mine to decide.
Editors? (let's meet in the Bat cave! :lol )
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I voted that it stays open.
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From what I can see we are discussing topics which are close to the bone, but are about information which is in links to freely available public domain information. I think we should keep it open until one or more of the interested parties asks us to close the thread. I appreciate everyones view and their right to express it. If we close it then we lose part of what made us different from what went before us.
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just that no one forgets!
Discretion/Respect
Although it is A.M.I.T.'s aim to be more accepting and tolerant of "controversial" topics than other MK forums, we ask that you use discretion when posting a message. This forum is read by many Mark Knopfler/Dire Straits/Notting Hillbillies fans from around the world daily, so what you say will be seen and read by many people. Please keep it civil, and always respect Mark and his band members, family and his associates. All discussions that are deemed by the Administrators/Moderators, to venture too far into Mark or his band members' personal/family matters will be considered inappropriate and promptly removed from the A.M.I.T. forum. The Administrators/Moderators also reserve the right to remove any posts which may in any way, be considered defamatory, and or cannot be substantiated.
the thread is now reopened.
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just that no one forgets!
Discretion/Respect
Although it is A.M.I.T.'s aim to be more accepting and tolerant of "controversial" topics than other MK forums, we ask that you use discretion when posting a message. This forum is read by many Mark Knopfler/Dire Straits/Notting Hillbillies fans from around the world daily, so what you say will be seen and read by many people. Please keep it civil, and always respect Mark and his band members, family and his associates. All discussions that are deemed by the Administrators/Moderators, to venture too far into Mark or his band members' personal/family matters will be considered inappropriate and promptly removed from the A.M.I.T. forum. The Administrators/Moderators also reserve the right to remove any posts which may in any way, be considered defamatory, and or cannot be substantiated.
the thread is now reopened.
Amen brothers and sisters, let's all be friends.
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just that no one forgets!
Discretion/Respect
Although it is A.M.I.T.'s aim to be more accepting and tolerant of "controversial" topics than other MK forums, we ask that you use discretion when posting a message. This forum is read by many Mark Knopfler/Dire Straits/Notting Hillbillies fans from around the world daily, so what you say will be seen and read by many people. Please keep it civil, and always respect Mark and his band members, family and his associates. All discussions that are deemed by the Administrators/Moderators, to venture too far into Mark or his band members' personal/family matters will be considered inappropriate and promptly removed from the A.M.I.T. forum. The Administrators/Moderators also reserve the right to remove any posts which may in any way, be considered defamatory, and or cannot be substantiated.
the thread is now reopened.
Amen brothers and sisters, let's all be friends.
and Banjo is not the messiah people, he's just a very naughty boy! ;)
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No he isn't!
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hush!
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Thanks for reopening the thread. I would never have thought about posting David's email here, or give away any confidential information without him agreeing. But there was no chance of that, anyway. His reply was quite long and very friendly
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I just have found my book with the copyright laws. It is from Holland so I don't really know how things are done in other countries than Holland. IF and only IF the record company or whoever has the right to make a contract has excluded David from getting his money out of the things he has played on, he could make a case at court of it. It doesn't seem very trustable that he doesn't get his money, because nearly all laws on copyright state that you have to right to get your part if you don't 'give away' the copyright. But we don't know the real facts so I give only an example on David, how it might have happened.
What the thing is what happens in the music business these days is that record companies have very clever lawyers who are extremely specialised in copyright laws, that they will find a little 'short cut' in the law and run away with the money to South America! What you get is that the recording artist or band get themselves a lawyer as well and search for those little holes in the contract that they're going to sign with the record company. In the end you get a very frustrating juridical game between the artists and the record companies, that's why it is harder these days to get signed up and bring out music. Not the only factor, but it is a part of the game. I wouldn't say that it happens to everyone but it happens more and more.. Maybe we can make a seperate topic on copyright laws, I find it a very intresting discussion.
Lars
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Remember the Beatles and Klein case? And countless other artists that signed what in fact were slave contracts. They were given a big advance to hass them up and then they had to pay even for the cup of coffee they had while recording in the studio.
By the way the Uncut "story" (hardly can call it interview, and so does the author) was like reading AMIT. Nothing new, only boring old stories. Like re-introducing (with not so bright colours) the story and legacy of MK and DS. It is a shame of course, and Uncut had never been just to MK.
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Remember the Beatles and Klein case? And countless other artists that signed what in fact were slave contracts. They were given a big advance to hass them up and then they had to pay even for the cup of coffee they had while recording in the studio.
By the way the Uncut "story" (hardly can call it interview, and so does the author) was like reading AMIT. Nothing new, only boring old stories. Like re-introducing (with not so bright colours) the story and legacy of MK and DS. It is a shame of course, and Uncut had never been just to MK.
Hmm Hmmm.. So reading AMIT is reading nothing new, only boring old stories??? ;D ;D :-\
LE
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LE and jbaent you have just created a mental picture when I read your posts: the two nagging old men at the muppet show! ;D
Of course you got what I was saying, that I have already read them before on AMIT. Have you read the article?
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LE and jbaent you have just created a mental picture when I read your posts: the two nagging old men at the muppet show! ;D
Of course you got what I was saying, that I have already read them before on AMIT. Have you read the article?
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaah, boring, as that people from AMIT
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Well I have dared to call you boring and what do I get in return? Farcical boring remarks. I have to find some other way to pep things up. ;D
How about some unconfirmed gibberish Mark's third cousin said while he was sleeping?
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Well I have dared to call you boring and what do I get in return? Farcical boring remarks. I have to find some other way to pep things up. ;D
How about some unconfirmed gibberish Mark's third cousin said while he was sleeping?
Show some respect, I
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I read the Uncut story and not all of it was old and boring. The Sonny Liston story about Today is okay was new to me for example, also some facts about Corned Beef City. That's what we do anyway, scanning journalistic pieces for some little news snippets to fulfill the MK puzzle in our heads...
Muppets, eh?
LE
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I read the Uncut story and not all of it was old and boring. The Sonny Liston story about Today is okay was new to me for example, also some facts about Corned Beef City. That's what we do anyway, scanning journalistic pieces for some little news snippets to fulfill the MK puzzle in our heads...
Muppets, eh?
LE
Yeah, baby, yeah!
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What happens when I reach post 2500 tonight? :P
LE
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New name maybe??? :P
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New name maybe??? :P
Little Puppet
;D
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Very interesting, Lars, thanks. And JBaent, you may very well be right about the old Dire Straits contract having expired by the time the "Sultans" collection came out. But still, if David Knopfler owns part of the copyright for those old songs, I can't see how they could take that away from him. It's only fair that he doesn't get paid for songs from the MM/LOG/BIA/OES era, of course, but he should have gotten something for the the early ones. And he probably did, I don't know. Ed Bicknell may be very smart, and Mark may just not care, but neither of them are evil, I guess.
Another thing was discussed here and there was the song "Wild West End". Not sure if I'm correct, but didn't David sort of claim that he had co-written or even written that one? And that the record sleeve should have said so? Even if that's true, he should have complained back then, of course ...
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don't think i set a change on 2500....think the next step is 3000, ask Jbaent :-)
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I was just making fun. I like Titanium much more than puppet master anyway... ;D
LE
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I know we ladies are minority here 1:4 the statistics say, but do we get different name Pottel :P
Come on LE, 2 posts and we know for sure if your name will change :D
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no ingrid, i can only set the names on postcount, not on gender..
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Very interesting, Lars, thanks. And JBaent, you may very well be right about the old Dire Straits contract having expired by the time the "Sultans" collection came out. But still, if David Knopfler owns part of the copyright for those old songs, I can't see how they could take that away from him. It's only fair that he doesn't get paid for songs from the MM/LOG/BIA/OES era, of course, but he should have gotten something for the the early ones. And he probably did, I don't know. Ed Bicknell may be very smart, and Mark may just not care, but neither of them are evil, I guess.
Another thing was discussed here and there was the song "Wild West End". Not sure if I'm correct, but didn't David sort of claim that he had co-written or even written that one? And that the record sleeve should have said so? Even if that's true, he should have complained back then, of course ...
I believe that the original Dire Straits contract expired after Live at the BBC album in 1995 which was essentially a release to satisfy a certain number of albums. So any arrangement after that would have been a new one and drawn up under new terms.
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don't think i set a change on 2500....think the next step is 3000, ask Jbaent :-)
What about a new thread instead of taking this one off topic....
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I believe that the original Dire Straits contract expired after Live at the BBC album in 1995 which was essentially a release to satisfy a certain number of albums. So any arrangement after that would have been a new one and drawn up under new terms.
That is my understanding as well. And it came as a surprise to see only ONE song from the first two albums on the latest compilation PI.
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Plus I remember reading about band leaders that erased and re-recorded all instruments played by others for all the re-releases in order to NOT pay performers, a dime.
I also know about Zappa re-recording for the CD editions many drums and bass, so the original editions are quite different, but I guess that was because he was not satisfied.
Another reason is contractual bindings. Pink Floyd, re recorded Money for the Collection of dance songs, because in the USA the old contract had rights over the Dark side of the moon original recording.
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just my 2 cents about the Mark/David thing :
In the Oldfield book, J. Illsely says something like that : "I think that it has always been clear that Mark was the leader, and that the band was just here to carry his songs"
and I think that the difference between John/Pick and David is that John and Pick had immediately understood this, but not David.
An now a funny anecdote, but do not laugh at me ;)
on the first 2 DS albums, Mark is credited as "vocal, lead and rhythm guitars" which means of coirse that he sings, and on most of the songs that he plays 2 guitar parts : a lead one, and a rhythm one
but I must admit that at my first reading of these booklets, some 25 yeras ago, I understood that he was credited for :
1) vocal
2) lead
3) guitars
:o
OK I've never been good in english, so maybe it's just me....but I think that this lapsus can be seen as the way Mark wanted to be understood ::)
Serioulsy, its' rather rare that guitarists are credited for lead and rhythm guitars. Most of the time, if guitarists are playing several parts they are credited for guitars....
I think that Mark really wanted to specify that he was playing most of the parts, and so that he was the leader...
It's another subject, but I've never understood why he needs other guitarists in studio, because, they always play just few uninteresting parts, Mark plays all parts you can hear at the first listen, so why don't he record all his albums just like he did for MM and KTGC ?
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It's another subject, but I've never understood why he needs other guitarists in studio, because, they always play just few uninteresting parts, Mark plays all parts you can hear at the first listen, so why don't he record all his albums just like he did for MM and KTGC ?
Mark is the greatest guitarist I know, but don't underestimate Richard Bennett, JF! He brings a flavour to a lot of the songs that they wouldn't otherwise have - and one that Mark couldn't just produce himself. That's the great thing about the guitar: It won't ever sound the same in the hands of somebody else, no matter how talented they are. I like Kill to Get Crimson, but I was glad he brought Richard back after that (and now Paul Franklin, too!).
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Was Ktgc without Richard? Can't remember that?
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Was Ktgc without Richard? Can't remember that?
Yup Mark did all the guitars himself
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JF I like the way you think! I can only add that the mixed dymamics, between Mark and David, as musicians and as siblings, can not be underestimated. And the fact that the leader is at the same time the bigger brother, sometimes adds to the frustration. I can only say, that I would have loved to listen to David's composition with the band. But it is already history that can't be changed.
As for the guitar parts, no matter how I love MK, I think that every guitarist has his unique tone, that adds to the music. I think when MK interacts with other talented musicians, the result is much better.
By the way, I don't think that the reason he is credited for rhythm guitars as well, is because he plays rhythm guitars and adds overdubs as well. But David and Hal has contributed greatly and it is a shame to think otherwise.
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now i understand why it is my least favourite album, it misses that little extra...
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JF I like the way you think! I can only add that the mixed dymamics, between Mark and David, as musicians and as siblings, can not be underestimated. And the fact that the leader is at the same time the bigger brother, sometimes adds to the frustration. I can only say, that I would have loved to listen to David's composition with the band. But it is already history that can't be changed.
As for the guitar parts, no matter how I love MK, I think that every guitarist has his unique tone, that adds to the music. I think when MK interacts with other talented musicians, the result is much better.
By the way, I don't think that the reason he is credited for rhythm guitars as well, is because he plays rhythm guitars and adds overdubs as well. But David and Hal has contributed greatly and it is a shame to think otherwise.
sorry disagree here :)
I don't think that the straits albums would have sound MUCH different if Hal or David have never been there
of course each guitarist has his unique tone, and of course interact with others is nice
I love Richard's playing on live roadrunning, but sorry to say : on studio albums like shangri-la or STP, there's only few songs where you can hear him distincly
an exemple : on Boom like that, Mark "allowed" Richard only to play just strumming chords on the chorus. All other three guitars (lead LP, rhythm silvertone, rhythm tele with THAT lick) are Mark.
same for David : all "notables" parts are payed by Mark.
If you listen to setting me up or southbound again , what do you hear ? David's guitar ?......I don't think so...
What I say isn't against peoples or musicians, it's just the fact that the typical guitar parts are ALMOST all played by Mark.
another example on clenaning my gun : Guy says that Richard plays the rhythm on 12 strings. Yes, but Marks is playing a rhythm part too, on 12 strings...so what brings Richard's "contribution" here ?
If Mark wanted absolutely to play the rhythm part, he could have played it on both channels, not just let Richard a "mimic" part.
A little bit the same with Gilmour : do you notice a notable difference on the wall because Lee Rotenour played a rhythm part on ONE song ?
do you notice a notable difference on Animals because Snowy White played some guitar ?
BUT, of course if you listen to Infidels, you can hear that 2 great guitarists are playing together, it's obvious to your ears,
but as far as MK studio albums...I don't thnki so IMHO
now i understand why it is my least favourite album, it misses that little extra...
would you say the same thing about Making Movies ? ;)
My opinion is that Mark could have played all guitars in studio, and have hired musicians for tours, and I think it wouldn't have changed his studio records sound at all, especially during DS days, as it was really the case
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Mark has mentioned in interviews that he likes to get he odd lesson from Richard, which I always understand as meaning - Richard is strong on his music theory and Mark doesn't mind absorbing some new theory in small doses ?
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whatever, just do not like KTGC :-X
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JF your point about rhythm guitar is well put. But I still wonder then, why David was ousted during the MM rehearsals, for not trying enough. It means that something was expected of him, which he has probably delivered on the two previous albums. And the demos, of the first album, that I absolutely adore, were recorded more or less live, and who's playing what is obvious.
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It means that something was expected of him, which he has probably delivered on the two previous albums
Yes you are right, and I wonder too, because I don't understand what was exepected of him, as Mark could have played all parts since the beginning
so maybe the fact that he wasn't trying enough was just a pretext for Mark to oust him, something he wanted to do since the beginning... ::)
Ok it's a bit harsh, but we all know that David wasn't ousted just because he couldn't or didn't want to play some guitar parts...
the REAL reason is of course more than that
And the demos, of the first album, that I absolutely adore, were recorded more or less live, and who's playing what is obvious.
Yes and no, it depends on which demos ;D
remember they weren't recorded at the same time, in the same way
several songs have 3 guitars with Mark playing rhythm and lead (e.g. setting me up or eastbound train), so before the album recording, it was already a Mark's habitude
Mark has mentioned in interviews that he likes to get he odd lesson from Richard, which I always understand as meaning - Richard is strong on his music theory and Mark doesn't mind absorbing some new theory in small doses ?
I agree. Richard's influence is maybe more in human interaction, giving ideas and advices or such things, than in "real" playing and adding his tones or sounds to the songs.
but of course there's some exceptions :
summer of love (who would have bet it was him playing the lead if we haven't seen on video ?)
sucker row (yes I know many people believe that it is Mark on lead, but Chuck Ainlay had listed Mark on acoustic and Richard on MK-sig-strat on this song....)
let's see you (the driving rhyhtm, I like it !)
Daddy's gone to Knoxville (the lap steel)
bouzouki on many songs
...
and of course live !
ok ok ok...I posted arguments against myself ! ;D
In fact, my opinion was more about DS days than solo days.
this is the MK paradox : his band was more a solo thing, and his solo albums are more collaborative ! ;D
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I like how David sounds on the live recordings such as Rockpalast.
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Well, if the credit says MK: lead guitar & rhythm guitar, it doesn't mean there was nothing left for DK. In many songs there are more guitar parts than guitar players, so you have to record an additional track.
... It's another subject, but I've never understood why he needs other guitarists in studio, because, they always play just few uninteresting parts, Mark plays all parts you can hear at the first listen, so why don't he record all his albums just like he did for MM and KTGC ?
Not really. When you look at live songs (I'm sorry DutchEssy for using this example), the reckognizable melody of done with bonaparte is played by RB. MK plays rhythm on the national which you can hardly pick out. The melody, especially the '96 versions you hear it well, is played by Richard on his Bouzouki. :)
And if you want to hear the impact of rhythm guitar, listen to BIA recorded on the 16th of April 2005 (Amsterdam). You'll see what happens when a capo is in the wrong position. ;)
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summer of love (who would have bet it was him playing the lead if we haven't seen on video ?)
I just purchased this vid on iTunes, it's been so long since I've seen it. God I love Richards solo, it's perfect!
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I think I was misunderstood
David guitar on DS and Communiqu
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When you are a strong player on both rhythm and lead guitar, in studio there are not a lot of room left for another guitarist.
David Gilmour did that job perfectly on many PF albums.
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When you are a strong player on both rhythm and lead guitar, in studio there are not a lot of room left for another guitarist.
David Gilmour did that job perfectly on many PF albums.
totally agree, that's exactly why I don't see the point for Mark to bring another guitarist in studio, except to ask him to play the "boring" parts.....
And I find that's the role devoted to 2nd guitarist all along DS/MK studio albums, especially during DS days
BTW, did I already say I love DG's playing ? ;D
he's a really great player, and what is nice on PF albums is that you don't have to wonder who plays what ;D ;D ;D
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He truly is one of the greats, and him and mark know/admire each other..if only one day...
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He truly is one of the greats, and him and mark know/admire each other..if only one day...
+1
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He truly is one of the greats, and him and mark know/admire each other..if only one day...
+1
Gilmour recorded some parts of his last cd "On an Island" in MK
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Really? Even though he has his own wonderful boat? (checking booklet...)
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Really? Even though he has his own wonderful boat? (checking booklet...)
I always thought it was for the orchestral sessions but I think Air Studios are in the credits as well... And these are well known studios to record orchestras... well, now British Grove too :)
Edit: Sorry, its not Air Studios but Abbey Road... so probably the strings were recorded in BG...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Knopfler
LOL who put the Kill To Get Crimson in his Solo discography? :D
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Knopfler
LOL who put the Kill To Get Crimson in his Solo discography? :D
:smack
BTW, David is tweeting here: https://twitter.com/davidknopfler
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Seems to have much time left for that.
LE
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David is and old twitter user, also in facebook.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Knopfler
LOL who put the Kill To Get Crimson in his Solo discography? :D
Maybe Mark disowned it! ;D
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Is it still there? I erased it last night!
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Is it still there? I erased it last night!
No, it's gone now! Thanks vgonis! :thumbsup
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Is it still there? I erased it last night!
If only it was so easy to erase Kill to get crimson from our collective memories.
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Is it still there? I erased it last night!
If only it was so easy to erase Kill to get crimson from our collective memories.
That was brutal! ;D
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Bahhh! Time is the healer and second hand record shops the proof. I find all MK CDs with the same regularity, so KTGC is not considered bad from fans. Or maybe they just destroy it? ::)
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Ktgc is one of my favourite MK records, honest!
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Bahhh! Time is the healer and second hand record shops the proof. I find all MK CDs with the same regularity, so KTGC is not considered bad from fans. Or maybe they just destroy it? ::)
Very few people bought it in the first place!
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Yes, but those who did buy it, they bought it several times believing that they had a defective copy...
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Wow, I think it's a great album!
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I love KTGC... :wave
For me, it is full of beautiful songs: Madame Geneva's, Heart Full Of Holes, In The Sky, The Scaffolder's Wife, Let It All Go, We Can Get Wild...
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"Heart Full Of Holes" is strange and beautiful at the same time.
"I
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OK, Rollergirl some years ago convinced me that it is a fine album and I should give it another try. I spent about a week with this constantly on my player. The voice was there the guitar was there and I was almost thrilled to discover a new favourite album. Alas, the number of times I listened to it after that period can be counted on the fingers of my one hand even if I missed a couple of fingers...
Maybe it has something to do with MK producing fresh work, or my family growing, or with so many great musicians being discovered ( Mona Dee has some great suggestions) or maybe because I have grown and listened to it in the wrong time, but yes it still is the album I listen to rarely. Calling it bad would sound to "objective" so I will only call it my least favourite. ;)
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OK, Rollergirl some years ago convinced me that it is a fine album and I should give it another try. I spent about a week with this constantly on my player. The voice was there the guitar was there and I was almost thrilled to discover a new favourite album. Alas, the number of times I listened to it after that period can be counted on the fingers of my one hand even if I missed a couple of fingers...
Maybe it has something to do with MK producing fresh work, or my family growing, or with so many great musicians being discovered ( Mona Dee has some great suggestions) or maybe because I have grown and listened to it in the wrong time, but yes it still is the album I listen to rarely. Calling it bad would sound to "objective" so I will only call it my least favourite. ;)
Dear vgonis,
please listen to the "Scaffolder's Wife" or "Madame Geneva", for example. Classic MK storytelling. And the - at first sight - dull "True Love Will Never Fade" is rescued by the strange but mellow guitar. It's a quiet album, I find myself listening to it during autumn and winter. Perhaps it was the time when his new studio played the major role and not the guitar.
But I'm strange sometimes, so for example I'd like to listen to "All The Roadrunning" without EH.....It's all down to personal taste, I suppose.
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Justme, I know it is a matter of mood and taste. I like it as I like any MK work, (somehow) but I guess not being in the mood to listen to it after so long just proves I am not listening to it! ;D
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I love KTGC too! :)
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I like scaffolders wife, fizzy and the still, secondary waltz and let it all go, so it has its moments.
But I can't see how anybody could make a case against this being his "least worst" album.
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I like KTGC very much.
Not my very favourite (this would be STP, TRD or P, depending on my mood), but I like it way better than SL, for instance...
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OK, Rollergirl some years ago convinced me that it is a fine album and I should give it another try. I spent about a week with this constantly on my player. The voice was there the guitar was there and I was almost thrilled to discover a new favourite album. Alas, the number of times I listened to it after that period can be counted on the fingers of my one hand even if I missed a couple of fingers...
Maybe it has something to do with MK producing fresh work, or my family growing, or with so many great musicians being discovered ( Mona Dee has some great suggestions) or maybe because I have grown and listened to it in the wrong time, but yes it still is the album I listen to rarely. Calling it bad would sound to "objective" so I will only call it my least favourite. ;)
It's my least favourite MK album too, despite some highs. "True love..." was the oppening tune in my wedding ceremony, three years ago. I also enjoy "Heart full of holes", "We can get wild", "Punish the monkey" and "In the sky". But "The scaffolder's wife", "The fizzy and the still" and "The fish and the bird" are ever-present in my bottom five MK's songs.
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SL is one of my favourites, if this proves anything. I like the sound of his guitar!
BTW, punish the monkey intro reminds me very much of a Chris Rea number" On the beach". Not a bad thing of course. Anyone else thought the same?
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SL is one of my favourites, if this proves anything. I like the sound of his guitar!
BTW, punish the monkey intro reminds me very much of a Chris Rea number" On the beach". Not a bad thing of course. Anyone else thought the same?
I like Chris Rea very much - have every album of his in my HD , but never noticed this tune before. I've just listened to the song again and sorry, greek wizard, didn't find much similarities, both 1986 and 88 versions.
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Will not insist on any particular similarities! I was just reminded of it! The intro (the guitar playing the main - backing riff) is slowed and toned down.
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Will not insist on any particular similarities! I was just reminded of it! The intro (the guitar playing the main - backing riff) is slowed and toned down.
Well, both songs have a light-sounded chorused rhythm guitar, both have a laid back and light-sounded lead guitar, both have an intro without bass and rhytmic percussion. Much more similarities than I thought. Rea's voice is something beyond my understanding, though. One of the best voices I ever heard, sounds like a quoir singing.
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This estrangement between the two brothers reminds me of Ray and Dave Davies. Originally it was Dave who was commandeering the group, then Ray came along, and the rest is history. I remember reading that they rarely saw each other except the usual weddings, funerals...
Evidently since Dave had his stroke, Ray has made more of an effort.
I'm finding that, since I've gotten older, tension among siblings is not uncommon at all. Sometimes outright loathing. :(
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Kinks, is the true English group from the 60ies. Their music has in its core the essence of englishness, and since they express this so good, it is univesal at the same time. The Beatles only touched this in some occassions, while the other big names the Stones, Who, Faces etc. missed it, sounding more like the best US music of the day.
And Ray was the mastermind. In Something else by the Kinks Dave offers two of his greatest compositions (included) and the album is a triumph of pop music. Somehow his compositions stick due to being excellent and don't quite fit due to being somehow different from the Ray compositions.
But Ray and Dave kept going for so many years together...
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Kinks, is the true English group from the 60ies. Their music has in its core the essence of englishness, and since they express this so good, it is univesal at the same time. The Beatles only touched this in some occassions, while the other big names the Stones, Who, Faces etc. missed it, sounding more like the best US music of the day.
And Ray was the mastermind. In Something else by the Kinks Dave offers two of his greatest compositions (included) and the album is a triumph of pop music. Somehow his compositions stick due to being excellent and don't quite fit due to being somehow different from the Ray compositions.
But Ray and Dave kept going for so many years together...
Not the essence of Englishness - more the essence of London! The Beatles were an entirely different cup of tea! ;)
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I really am not in the position to judge! I only say this as a foreigner. But one of their crowning achievments, their "Village green preservation society" is far from being just for London, me thinks.
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I really am not in the position to judge! I only say this as a foreigner. But one of their crowning achievments, their "Village green preservation society" is far from being just for London, me thinks.
Yes of course - brilliant song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3nvJ2hmaUI
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Wonderful version Val! And the album of the same name is superb and about the old ways! :)
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I saw The Kinks last year in Glasgow at The Royal Concert Hall! Last Friday I saw The Hollies at the same venue!
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This estrangement between the two brothers reminds me of Ray and Dave Davies. Originally it was Dave who was commandeering the group, then Ray came along, and the rest is history.
the same thing happened to the Fogerty brothers I believe
At the start of the the band Tom was the lead singer, but then John started to sing, and his powerfull voice was choosen for lead, and the rest is also history
I'm not sure, but I think that the Fogerty brothers also rarely saw each other.