A Mark In Time

Previous Albums => Privateering (2012) => Topic started by: Fletch on August 31, 2012, 10:24:53 AM

Title: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Fletch on August 31, 2012, 10:24:53 AM
I'm blown away by just how good the 'sounds' are - for example the acoustic guitar in Privateering is the warmest, loveliest thing. You can really hear Marks fingers snapping at the strings with that special 'popping' that his fingerpicking does. It sounds nicer (to me) than the studio Marbletown recording.

All round, some brilliant sounds, looking forward to Guys diary updates about this.
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Eddie Fox on August 31, 2012, 04:43:33 PM
It's crazy how you can hear the guitar so clearly on this album. You don't usually get it unless you put the guitar volumes up there which ruins the mixing and it's definetely not the case here! British Grove must be the best studio in this planet. Mixing and mastering are superb. I wish I could express myself in English as well as I do in Portuguese, that would be lots of fun to discuss technical stuff here.

Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Pottel on August 31, 2012, 06:09:13 PM
Your English is well above average!
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Eddie Fox on August 31, 2012, 06:39:34 PM
Your English is well above average!

Obrigado, Pottel:) My English is ok but I do have some difficulties to get the message across when it comes to technical stuff... If someone else gets it started I may take the risk lol
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: another brother on August 31, 2012, 09:15:44 PM
the recording is state of art

i am listening with high end loudspeakers and this album is it

i have the feeling they needed 1-2 albums to achieve this sound in the "new" studio, now they got it.

Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Fletch on September 03, 2012, 11:07:44 AM
Any ideas what makes the high squeal noise in Blood and Water ? Synth ?
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: dmg on September 03, 2012, 12:24:41 PM
In Blood and  Water I love the bits that make it sound like it's lifted straight from a 70s Blaxploitation film!  Do you guys know the little bits am talkin' 'bout man? 8)
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: foma on September 03, 2012, 12:38:52 PM
I think it's Paul Franklin defying laws of physics with wah wah :D
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: dmg on September 03, 2012, 12:41:08 PM
I think it's Paul Franklin defeating laws of physics with wah wah :D

Ah, that's it.  Thanks.  I think it's just so cool! 8)  In fact it's sub zero! 8) 8)
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Rail King on September 03, 2012, 02:27:19 PM
Great sounds all around, yes. But am I the only one who thinks that the sound quality varies too much from song to song? I mean, you have things like "Gator Blood", which sounds like it was recorded in a barn somewhere, one band playing it all together, and done. And then you have things like "The Dream of the Drowned Submariner", with all its synth-soaked deep water atmosphere.

Sometimes I'd prefer a more consistent album, sound wise, like the old Dire Straits albums, or like Bob Dylan's recent ones. Or like Shangri-La and Kill to Get Crimson, in fact. Your opinions?
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: JF on September 03, 2012, 02:32:37 PM
I think it's Paul Franklin defying laws of physics with wah wah :D

Yes I think so too, first time I hear lap steel or pedal steel with wha-wha though
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: foma on September 03, 2012, 02:41:57 PM
You can find examples on youtube, sounds just the same.

Sometimes I'd prefer a more consistent album, sound wise, like the old Dire Straits albums, or like Bob Dylan's recent ones. Or like Shangri-La and Kill to Get Crimson, in fact. Your opinions?
Agreed. Also I don't like Mark's "first take" principle with "I'm a h-, I'm a hot or what. Oh, take one!", strange ending of Don't Forget Your Hat, "Chuck, take one", etc. I know it's blues, but A Place Where We Used To Live was a "first take" too. Album of first takes released in more than year after recording.
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: MisterYES on September 03, 2012, 03:01:20 PM
Sometimes I'd prefer a more consistent album, sound wise, like the old Dire Straits albums, or like Bob Dylan's recent ones. Or like Shangri-La and Kill to Get Crimson, in fact. Your opinions?
True, but Gator and Submariner are miles away, style wise. Im not sure that I'd love to hear polished Gator, and vice versa :)
After all, album with 20 + songs will probably sounded quite a boring if they were all similar in sound.
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Rail King on September 03, 2012, 04:55:53 PM
Mark often mentions Dylan's "Blonde on Blonde" as one if his all-time favourite albums. That was a double album too, very long, with a nice diversity of songs. BUT Dylan was  looking to create what he famously called a "thin mercury sound", and that sound runs through the whole album, weaving the songs together. That's what I like, and what I think would work for Mark's albums, too. It seems that Mark, too, likes albums that are done that way, but obviously he's not aiming for it with his own records.
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Love Expresso on September 03, 2012, 07:14:32 PM

Agreed. Also I don't like Mark's "first take" principle with "I'm a h-, I'm a hot or what. Oh, take one!", strange ending of Don't Forget Your Hat, "Chuck, take one", etc. I know it's blues, but A Place Where We Used To Live was a "first take" too. Album of first takes released in more than year after recording.

Don't know if you have another version of the album?  ;D I had a listen again, but have not heard none of the two mentioned things. In "Don't Forget Your Hat" though I says "Take one, Kim..." to start the harmonica solo... And the "take one" in Hot Or What might refer "I take a(nother) card"...
Sometimes songs that sound like first takes have been more worked on as one would think on the first sight. I once asked Guy about "Secondary Waltz" (album version). I would say that one sounds like a typical "take one", but in fact it had a lot of work...

LE
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: dmg on September 03, 2012, 07:29:26 PM

Agreed. Also I don't like Mark's "first take" principle with "I'm a h-, I'm a hot or what. Oh, take one!", strange ending of Don't Forget Your Hat, "Chuck, take one", etc. I know it's blues, but A Place Where We Used To Live was a "first take" too. Album of first takes released in more than year after recording.

Don't know if you have another version of the album?  ;D I had a listen again, but have not heard none of the two mentioned things. In "Don't Forget Your Hat" though I says "Take one, Kim..." to start the harmonica solo... And the "take one" in Hot Or What might refer "I take a(nother) card"...
Sometimes songs that sound like first takes have been more worked on as one would think on the first sight. I once asked Guy about "Secondary Waltz" (album version). I would say that one sounds like a typical "take one", but in fact it had a lot of work...

LE

If it did take a lot of work though wouldn't it sound awfully contrived?  In some songs I think Mark's guitar playing seems rather uninspired/restrained as though it is a one take.  Hot Or What, for instance.  As a result the harmonica rules that song and Mark is firmly back seat.  Live, without harmonica, and it leaves room for good improvisation.
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Eddie Fox on September 03, 2012, 07:34:05 PM
It's very unlikely that's Paul Franklin with the wah wah. That sounds pretty much like an ordinary guitar, probably played by Richard Bennett, unless Mark himself recorded some overdubs.

Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: foma on September 03, 2012, 07:39:12 PM
What about very high notes? To clear for regular guitar I think. And who plays rhythm?

When I listened Hot or What I clearly heard that "I'm a h-, I'm a hot or what" was not planned by Mark :)
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Eddie Fox on September 03, 2012, 07:48:52 PM
What about very high notes? To clear for regular guitar I think. And who plays rhythm?

When I listened Hot or What I clearly heard that "I'm a h-, I'm a hot or what" was not planned by Mark :)

You can reach high notes through an octave pedal. My guess that's an overdub played by RB.
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: MisterYES on September 03, 2012, 10:11:29 PM
It's very unlikely that's Paul Franklin with the wah wah. That sounds pretty much like an ordinary guitar, probably played by Richard Bennett, unless Mark himself recorded some overdubs.
At first few listenings (iTunes samples) I also thought that is just a regular guitar, but after closer "look" with better quality files (FLAC) and other parts of Blood And Water, it really seems that is, as strange as it might been, mr. Paul with wah-wah pedal on lap steel.  ??? The reason I think that is the case, is 2:43-48 time on Blood and Water. If it is, an ordinary (even overdubbed) guitar, than is some weird logic works going on, because that guitar is panned/placed and colored identically as lap steel. Why would they do it that way?
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: foma on September 03, 2012, 10:14:44 PM
Yeah, Mister. And Richard plays rhythm in left channel. His sound is very recognizable, as well as Mark's.

I mean no overdubs. Maybe it's even first take, who knows! ;D
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: MisterYES on September 03, 2012, 10:25:37 PM
Even thou, it not necessarily means that actual pedal is popular wah-wah for guitars -  it might be some strange way of playing lap steel, about which we don't know.
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: border_reiver on September 03, 2012, 11:22:16 PM
Just a shot in the dark here but isn't that high note coming from the organ?
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: MisterYES on September 04, 2012, 12:04:54 AM
Hm...than the organ has the same pan position and tone as lap steel, or there is no lap steel at all and all those tones coming from organ  ???

But again...@time 2:43-48 on BAW is hardly an organ  :disbelief
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: JF on September 04, 2012, 10:01:01 AM
it's clearly steel guitar here, no fret playing. I vote for PF with wha-wah.
the wha-wah is also sometimes used with a clavinet, or an organ, e.g. Rick Wright on Money.


about first take / overproduced recordings :

you can have a tune played live in studio with no overdubs, but it's the 15th take, or first take recorded, but after many rehersals

it's the case for many blues players. e.g. SRV's first album is obvioulsy recorded live, with the 3 guys playing together, but how many times had they played the tunes before record it ? (jams, live in pubs, rehersals, etc...)

And then, you can have a tune with many overdubs and arangements, but an overdub just played one take. e.g. the wonderful Page's solo on Since I've been loving you. The solo is first take, (recorded in the studio corridor !) but all others intsruments might have been re-recorded many times.

In this case, which one is more "spontanous" ? which one can we call "live" "first take" ? The one recorded just one time, but rehersed or played live in pubs million times before, or the one "over-produced" (with keyboards, reverb on the voice, maybe several takes on vocals, etc...) but with a fresh solo just played one time with inspiration coming at the time ?

I must admit I don't have the answer, but the difference between "first takes" and "polished" tunes is not simple as that
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Love Expresso on September 04, 2012, 10:11:26 AM
It is never really "honest". If you remember: Guy was obviously proud to report that Mark "played and sang at once" during the recording of the song Privateering. But he also says in the same sentence that afterwards the vocals were comped - as I understood it: Several takes were checked and then the best result was "mixed". Of course, every single one was sung by Mark, maybe together with playing, but it is not exactly what you expect from "one take recording". Or am I wrong here?

LE
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: goon525 on September 04, 2012, 10:28:18 AM
Talking of sound quality, is Privateering available as a high res download (I mean better than CD) anywhere? (Sorry if this has been answered, but I couldn't find it quickly.)
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: MisterYES on September 04, 2012, 10:38:19 AM
Talking of sound quality, is Privateering available as a high res download (I mean better than CD) anywhere? (Sorry if this has been answered, but I couldn't find it quickly.)
There is a FLAC leak out there. Im not sure what you mean by "better than CD"?
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: goon525 on September 04, 2012, 10:54:20 AM
CD is 16 bit 44.1kHz. Increasingly, music is available at 24/96 or better. FLAC is just a format, can be available at different resolution levels. Given the care taken by Guy and others with the sheer sound quality of this album, it really should be available at 24/96.
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: JF on September 04, 2012, 11:30:25 AM
It is never really "honest". If you remember: Guy was obviously proud to report that Mark "played and sang at once" during the recording of the song Privateering. But he also says in the same sentence that afterwards the vocals were comped - as I understood it: Several takes were checked and then the best result was "mixed". Of course, every single one was sung by Mark, maybe together with playing, but it is not exactly what you expect from "one take recording". Or am I wrong here?

LE

yes exactly.
he sinf and play at the same time, but what you hear is'nt a single take, but a comp of several takes, as it is most of the time in modern recordings (that was not the case back in the 50s or 60s)
most of the time the "one take" things doesn't really mean what you would expect
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: MisterYES on September 04, 2012, 01:59:31 PM
CD is 16 bit 44.1kHz. Increasingly, music is available at 24/96 or better. FLAC is just a format, can be available at different resolution levels. Given the care taken by Guy and others with the sheer sound quality of this album, it really should be available at 24/96.
Ah OK, thanks for explaining ;)
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Eddie Fox on September 04, 2012, 09:20:10 PM
You guys might be right. I will ask GF, hope he can shed light on this... :lol

Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: MisterYES on September 05, 2012, 11:32:19 AM
You guys might be right. I will ask GF, hope he can shed light on this... :lol
It's answered ;)
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Eddie Fox on September 05, 2012, 01:28:37 PM
You guys might be right. I will ask GF, hope he can shed light on this... :lol
It's answered ;)

Yeah, and as he said, PF is a little genius! Never thought you could do that on a pedal steel!
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: ingridswing on September 05, 2012, 01:33:02 PM
Paul Franklin really is a genius. Wish he came along on the tour
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: dmg on September 05, 2012, 02:01:43 PM
Paul Franklin really is a genius. Wish he came along on the tour

Absolutely.  Just think of the possibilities.  That could really shake up the set list...
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Rail King on September 05, 2012, 04:15:15 PM
Oh yes. Oh yes. Paul Franklin's solo in "When It Comes to You", played at Snape with the Notting Hillbillies, is the best guitar solo I've ever heard in my life. Ever. By anyone, including Mark Knopfler. It's simply not possible to create something cooler than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8ppQ2_5WsY

(And make sure you listen to the whole song, just to prepare for it.)
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: MKSwing on September 05, 2012, 09:09:34 PM
It's already great to have Jim Cox touring if you add Paul Franklin maybe I'll have a little orgasm...
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Pottel on September 05, 2012, 10:14:54 PM
Oh yes. Oh yes. Paul Franklin's solo in "When It Comes to You", played at Snape with the Notting Hillbillies, is the best guitar solo I've ever heard in my life. Ever. By anyone, including Mark Knopfler. It's simply not possible to create something cooler than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8ppQ2_5WsY

(And make sure you listen to the whole song, just to prepare for it.)
not Paul's best part IMHO. But I DO like mark as of 4:58!!!!!
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Pottel on September 05, 2012, 10:17:37 PM
Way better is his part in I fink I wuv u 2 much.. As of 2:11
Title: Re: The Recording - The Sound
Post by: Rail King on September 06, 2012, 07:58:19 AM
Oh yes. Oh yes. Paul Franklin's solo in "When It Comes to You", played at Snape with the Notting Hillbillies, is the best guitar solo I've ever heard in my life. Ever. By anyone, including Mark Knopfler. It's simply not possible to create something cooler than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8ppQ2_5WsY

(And make sure you listen to the whole song, just to prepare for it.)
not Paul's best part IMHO. But I DO like mark as of 4:58!!!!!

Well, I don't really feel like arguing here. Let's just say these solos (and others) prove that there must be a good, after all, okay? Or two gods, rather.  :o :o