A Mark In Time
Previous Albums => Privateering (2012) => Topic started by: herlock on September 05, 2012, 05:57:05 PM
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I cannot express how disgusted I feel.
I did not want to buy this SD box because of the low value we discussed.
Nonetheless, being still a MK gem, I could not resist buying it in a FNAC shop, for an infamous price - 30
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I understand your anger. It seems there are legal/rights reasons for this?
Herlock, you will probably know that there is a recording available from Digital TV, which is perfect quality so to say. I have this DVD, made with a nice menu AND complete! If you are willing I can send you a copy?
LE
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LE, you're very sweet and you made my day. Yes, I'm quite willing if you can do it, that's wonderful. Thank you so much !
But it will not change the fact that I won't be an official release, and that things are not what they are advertised to be... "FULL CONCERT" they said !! without TR - the longest and possibly the most impressive song ever made !!!!!!
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I don't know for the documentary but the "full concert" is a very serious contractual issue that must be fixed !
>:( :o
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PM me your postal address if you like. It might take a time but I will send it to you...
You are right about "full concert". Well, this and recent releases of Mk are all done without much or no love at all or care... It is only business and money making and it is sad that it is so obvious. Mark is not interested in this the slightest which is a pity. Somebody who takes so much care about everything should learn that at the other end, the people who buy his stuff want his personality reflected in his production. Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel or David Gilmour seem to be people that are different to that.
LE
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PM me your postal address if you like. It might take a time but I will send it to you...
You are right about "full concert". Well, this and recent releases of Mk are all done without much or no love at all or care... It is only business and money making at it is sad that it is so obvious. Mark is not interested in this the slightest which is a pity. Somebody who takes so much care about everything should learn that at the other end, the people who buy his stuff want his personality reflected in his production. Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel or David Gilmour seem to be people that are different to that.
LE
Thank you LE you're so sweet ! you've got mail :)
I 100% agree with everything you've just said.
I think AMIT (not only one or two individuals) should raise a formal complaint to Guy's forum and to PC. What do you all think ? by not saying that the documentary is edited and advertising "full concert" I think they are breaking the law. All the more than the item is super expensive. What do you guys think ?
Another thing - Pottel are you listening ? :) I think you said that some parts of the Privateering EPK have been embedded in the documentary... well I've just been wathching the documentary in full (for what that means with this censored version) and I've seen no trace of the EPK... ????
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PM me your postal address if you like. It might take a time but I will send it to you...
You are right about "full concert". Well, this and recent releases of Mk are all done without much or no love at all or care... It is only business and money making at it is sad that it is so obvious. Mark is not interested in this the slightest which is a pity. Somebody who takes so much care about everything should learn that at the other end, the people who buy his stuff want his personality reflected in his production. Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel or David Gilmour seem to be people that are different to that.
LE
I am also surprised that Mark does not use more control on this side of the biz.
What is put out is done with his approval. I may understand his desinterest for the Dire Straits part but regarding his new album?
Privateering being a double album sounds a bit like ending his contract faster. Time will tell.
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PM me your postal address if you like. It might take a time but I will send it to you...
You are right about "full concert". Well, this and recent releases of Mk are all done without much or no love at all or care... It is only business and money making at it is sad that it is so obvious. Mark is not interested in this the slightest which is a pity. Somebody who takes so much care about everything should learn that at the other end, the people who buy his stuff want his personality reflected in his production. Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel or David Gilmour seem to be people that are different to that.
LE
Thank you LE you're so sweet ! you've got mail :)
I 100% agree with everything you've just said.
I think AMIT (not only one or two individuals) should raise a formal complaint to Guy's forum and to PC. What do you all think ? by not saying that the documentary is edited and advertising "full concert" I think they are breaking the law. All the more than the item is super expensive. What do you guys think ?
Another thing - Pottel are you listening ? :) I think you said that some parts of the Privateering EPK have been embedded in the documentary... well I've just been wathching the documentary in full (for what that means with this censored version) and I've seen no trace of the EPK... ????
I am 200% sure i did.
will check again, or can someone else confirm?
oh and LE, this dvd you mention, is this your own creation? if so, why not torrent it on Spanish city?
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Maybe this DVD editing issue is due to the fact that there are in fact 2 versions and that explains the so-called "quality assurance" reasons for delaying postage.
Remember the Life In Songs programme was a BBC production, but the excerpts you mention that were cut were from another broadcaster (Wembley '85 was on The Tube, Channel 4) and would presumably require further permission. After realising their mistake, they suddenly stopped posting the SD boxes and edited out the appropriate bits. Now there are 2 versions of the DVD in circulation depending on when you received it.
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Maybe this DVD editing issue is due to the fact that there are in fact 2 versions and that explains the so-called "quality assurance" reasons for delaying postage.
Remember the Life In Songs programme was a BBC production, but the excerpts you mention that were cut were from another broadcaster and would presumably require further permission. After realising their mistake, they suddenly stopped posting the SD boxes and edited out the appropriate bits. Now there are 2 versions of the DVD in circulating depending on when you received it.
What a nightmare if it's true...
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???
It is not my own creation at all.
I always thought this was to common knowledge? It from JvT'S site, you find it there when you scroll down the updates down to February 2011.. Strange enough I am not able to capture a link, please have a look yourself...
I got it from that site. As I am not into Spanish City and torrent stuff at all, I would be happy to send you Pottel, a copy, too and let you decide what to do with it..
LE
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I am 200% sure i did.
will check again, or can someone else confirm?
Apologies Pottel, you are right, there are indeek some parts of the EPK at the end of the DVD which I had skipped - as I was so disgusted. This is very small though - just to say hey, yes, ok, this is privateering....
Regarding the rights issue: we should note that there are still some parts of Wembley'85 (small extracts from WOL and MFN). So, why should Going Home more of a problem ? Because of Henk B. Marvin's management ? But then we have the sequence of Henk in the 60s !! So I don't think it is a right issues, I think it's just butchering things as usual... :( :( :(
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Like leaving SoS from on the night and other examples...
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I'm sure many of you are aware of its existence, but there is a very useful freeware program call aTube Catcher for all those little things you would like keep closer to home. A quick Google will find it for you, but remember to do a custom install so that you don't install the Ask toolbar, or whatever they bung in with it.
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300% agree with all said, but I think the best complaint to the record company would have been to not buy the SD box set....
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300% agree with all said, but I think the best complaint to the record company would have been to not buy the SD box set....
You hit me where it hurts...
I cannot blame myself enough.
The normal double CD is great value.
The deluxe edition has way less value than it should have, a full 2011 concert was what we needed here - but at least, the price increment is very small, so the package is still good value.
The SD thing has almost no value. The only significant item is the 3 extra song CD. Which is a disguting way of ripping fans off... for GL it was the same, just keep 3 songs out of the album, which at least one very good one, so that people will have to buy the expensive stuff. We had Home Boy in 2009 and Occupation Blues now. But at least in 2009, you got what you paid for. No lies in the advertisement. No censored DVD and no so-called "full concert" at a lowest bitrate than Simfy.
Shame on me for buying it. Shame on me ! and above all: shame of them !
Mark, you are God in your universe, you could stop the shame by just lifting your little finger, why did you give up on us ??
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So...
If I got it right... There are two versions of the dvd. The first one that arrived to the stores (And probably the one that Pottel has) and the one that was delayed because they deleted parts due to copyright issues?
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So...
If I got it right... There are two versions of the dvd. The first one that arrived to the stores (And probably the one that Pottel has) and the one that was delayed because they deleted parts due to copyright issues?
That was an hypothesis, but I seriously doubt it.
I personnally think there was only one version, the butchered one, and that the censorship has nothing to do with any rights issue, and more to do with the fact that they just dirty everything they touch...
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So...
If I got it right... There are two versions of the dvd. The first one that arrived to the stores (And probably the one that Pottel has) and the one that was delayed because they deleted parts due to copyright issues?
That was an hypothesis, but I seriously doubt it.
I personnally think there was only one version, the butchered one, and that the censorship has nothing to do with any rights issue, and more to do with the fact that they just dirty everything they touch...
I always thought that do it wrong, as they do, is more difficult that do it right...
Do you want to put a concert for download? Just put something unreleased, like a 2011 tour
No, they put something that they already sold, and taking off one song
Do you want to add a dvd? Just put unreleased material, a live dvd or at least the Privateering EPK, something worth
No, they put a documentary broadcasted and rebroadcasted every now and then
Do you want to put a cd with extra songs? Ok, lets do it
But leave out two tracks for digital stores apart, that you have to buy not individually, but with the whole record...
Do you want to include the cd version in the box? Of course, if you buy the box you may have all there, so put the 3cd version
No, put the standard, so people will have to buy at least two versions to have everything...
And go on...
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Psychology. Simple as that. If you are a fan you have to have a proof of that. You buy an artifact, may that be a record a t-shirt or a book. You are in the state of mind that all these have to be "official" and that since they are limited, more expensive. So if you don't buy them, you do not belong to the chosen few best fans. If you allow yourself to look at it from outside, you will realize that only a tiny bit has to do with the real issue here, which is music. Or is it economics? Or maybe the very core of the human being, sanity.
I am in if we can prepare a formal complaint. I surely hope someone with good skills in English and law helps us with it. And I don't even mind leaving the law outside. It has a logic of its own. We are fooled fans.
So lean from your windows and shout:"I am mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore"
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Psychology. Simple as that. If you are a fan you have to have a proof of that. You buy an artifact, may that be a record a t-shirt or a book. You are in the state of mind that all these have to be "official" and that since they are limited, more expensive. So if you don't buy them, you do not belong to the chosen few best fans. If you allow yourself to look at it from outside, you will realize that only a tiny bit has to do with the real issue here, which is music. Or is it economics? Or maybe the very core of the human being, sanity.
I am in if we can prepare a formal complaint. I surely hope someone with good skills in English and law helps us with it. And I don't even mind leaving the law outside. It has a logic of its own. We are fooled fans.
So lean from your windows and shout:"I am mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore"
Damn right! I wish you every success with your complaint because it has 100% validity and no one can deny that.
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dmg, there are several issues to face before a complaint. The problem here is that the one solid thing we can pursue is the TR/full concert thing.
As I mentioned way before the release, the regular answer that cover their asses is:"Don't want, don't buy"
The fact that we have been stating that this is a rip-off, even before we bought it, doesn't make things better.
But a formal complaint is in order, and I really wait PMs from those that wish to join me. Help is also needed!
And even if I don't find supporters, I will go on by myself, but first I have to get a bloody copy of the album!!!! Can't do it without having evidence first hand. ;)
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Today I received my first physical copy and it was the free copy from Universal! Still waiting for my 3CD deluxe version from HMV. >:(
I never looked at the MK.com site but if it said it was a full concert then that is a breach of the trade descriptions act 1968: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/29/pdfs/ukpga_19680029_en.pdf
Of course, they aren't stupid so may have covered themselves on this with some legal loophole; perhaps it is not implemented on internet descriptions...
In any event, they may be willing to perform some sort of customer relations exercise with you.
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I'm willing to contribute.
I agree that the TR/Full Concert is the only legal item. Although... I think we could also talk about the terrible communication which led some distributors (including FNAC in France, the #1) to WRITE that the SD box included the 5-song CD, moreoever presented as "Live tour 2011", whereas it is really rehearsal and not "live"...
The letter could adress the legal stuff but also the moral one.
Also the business one: forcing the fans to buy two boxes to have everything is not moral, but it makes perfect sense expressed in dollars and cents (as RW would say); but putting there a 2010 show without TR instead of a 2011 is just plain stupid, because it costs nothing more and it would sell more boxes !!
So:
1) Illegal stuff
2) Unethical stuff
3) Plain stupid stuff
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I never looked at the MK.com site but if it said it was a full concert then that is a breach of the trade descriptions act 1968: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/29/pdfs/ukpga_19680029_en.pdf
Of course, they aren't stupid so may have covered themselves on this with some legal loophole; perhaps it is not implemented on internet descriptions...
In any event, they may be willing to perform some sort of customer relations exercise with you.
It's not only an internet description... It's even written on the backside of the box:
(http://85.imagebam.com/download/8FwxGwYR4YLGWSQLeUx8tA/20953/209523666/MKP_Back.jpg)
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I never looked at the MK.com site but if it said it was a full concert then that is a breach of the trade descriptions act 1968: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/29/pdfs/ukpga_19680029_en.pdf
Of course, they aren't stupid so may have covered themselves on this with some legal loophole; perhaps it is not implemented on internet descriptions...
In any event, they may be willing to perform some sort of customer relations exercise with you.
It's not only an internet description... It's even written on the backside of the box:
(http://85.imagebam.com/download/8FwxGwYR4YLGWSQLeUx8tA/20953/209523666/MKP_Back.jpg)
Does the word "full" means "complete" or "uncut" ?
Is the answer is yes then...
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Caveat emptor.
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If TR was played at the encore it is not part of the set. Oh, bollocks. I shall complain for everything even for not making it clear. Logic is on our side. And on the next release they will know that we won't bite.
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Telegraph is usually the last song of the regular set I would presume. It is the grand finale - whereas from thereon, everything like Brothers, So Far and Pipers are so called "encores", but of course MK never really played a "real" encore in the last 15 years for sure.
LE
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Exactly. I always asked myself why they call it encores, when its on the setlist since the start...
For me, an encore is songs they play at the end that were not planned to be played.
And I
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I never looked at the MK.com site but if it said it was a full concert then that is a breach of the trade descriptions act 1968: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/29/pdfs/ukpga_19680029_en.pdf
Of course, they aren't stupid so may have covered themselves on this with some legal loophole; perhaps it is not implemented on internet descriptions...
In any event, they may be willing to perform some sort of customer relations exercise with you.
It's not only an internet description... It's even written on the backside of the box:
(http://85.imagebam.com/download/8FwxGwYR4YLGWSQLeUx8tA/20953/209523666/MKP_Back.jpg)
Does the word "full" means "complete" or "uncut" ?
Is the answer is yes then...
Do you mean "fool" ?
Mickey Bricks is Mercury's new hero.
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LE and jbaent you are both right of course. I was just trying to find the excuse they might use, but I knew all along that it's not the case.
About encore, I believe that they always leave at least a couple of well known songs-requests, that have rehearsed-in order to be able to perform, and even if it is on the set list, they are considered encore. Some times two encores. Maybe i has to do with the band leaving the stage and coming back again. So if they do it after each song you might consider having 15 encores. ;D
Rolling stones have a poll before the gig, and find out the favourite song of the fans, and perform it even if it is not on their regular set list. Greeks voted for She's a rainbow.
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If there was a poll, TOL would obviously come out 1st and SB 2nd.
:P
it cant be !
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If there was a poll, TOL would obviously come out 1st and SB 2nd.
:P
it cant be !
Agree. We are going to do a poll, TOL is going to come first by far, then we'll get maybe OES, SB, Punish the Monkey, oldies like WDYTYRG or Lions or OUATITW, and we are just going to piss Mark off...
I think Mark is perfectly aware that we all want TOL back, and that the audience would go hysterical the moment the first notes of the Carrousel Waltz would be played. I think he might do it again (cf. my previous posts), but with a poll we may reduce the chances from "very slim" to "absolutely zero".
I would like to quote MK himself on this now infamous Life in Songs documentary: "I think I've not been playing MFN for a while. I might play it again, I might not, but for sure I would hate to think that I -have- to play it"....
Let's Mark move by himself ! again I think 2013 will be a very special year with special anniversaries a good conditions... let him be !!
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herlock, I am not pro or against a poll. If someone, like the Rolling stones do it, it is to please the fans. I believe MK has this in mind as well, when he states that he willingly plays old songs because fans like them (See one of the tour books-Shangri-La maybe?) So he is halfway there. He plays old songs, usually the ones people remember fondly, but hates requests. ;)
I really don't miss any songs from MK at his tours. I like each and every one of them. Then again, I would love to have a special 5 hour concert where he can play everything!
TOL would be 2nd. I would prefer a new edition of the more obscure songs from the DS catalog, like It never rains. ;D
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herlock, I am not pro or against a poll. If someone, like the Rolling stones do it, it is to please the fans. I believe MK has this in mind as well, when he states that he willingly plays old songs because fans like them (See one of the tour books-Shangri-La maybe?) So he is halfway there. He plays old songs, usually the ones people remember fondly, but hates requests. ;)
I really don't miss any songs from MK at his tours. I like each and every one of them. Then again, I would love to have a special 5 hour concert where he can play everything!
TOL would be 2nd. I would prefer a new edition of the more obscure songs from the DS catalog, like It never rains. ;D
Yes, Mark often says that the old songs are milestones for people. His choice of milestones is actually pretty good... except that I'm sure that he knows that we are all tired of R&J and would by far prefer the return of TOL to represent the MM period. But for reasons only known to him (his dad ? his ability to play it without going out of breath ?) he does not want to play it any more. But... this has been 20 years know... time for a change ? :)
I agree though that whatever he plays, a MK concert is so good that it does not really matter...
It never rains is a gem, I agree with you. Actually everything in the DS catalog is a gem, except Les Boys and Walk of life :)
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I agree though that whatever he plays, a MK concert is so good that it does not really matter...
If the nightmare came true : DWB - WOL - The Fish and the Bird - Sony Listen -... Edit : Waltzing Mathilda - Monteleone.
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I agree though that whatever he plays, a MK concert is so good that it does not really matter...
If the nightmare came true : DWB - WOL - The Fish and the Bird - Sony Listen -...
Well, we could be positive about it:
- As a Frenchman like me, don't you like DWB ? it's a good one actually, a good analysis of a rich period of French History. I never understood why this triggered so much hatred, I think Mark is right to elect this (and Rudiger, and ANISLO) as a good representative of GH.
- WOL: ok, enough of it...
- The Firsh and the Bird: it's not a bad song at all ! it is slow paced but the melody is quite haunting. And it is good to represent a bit poor KTGC album that has been treated so unfairly by both the critics and the live representation....
- Sony Liston: hum.... I could never like this one. Very boring to me. Some people love it. Can't understand why Marks wants this to represent Shangri-La, instead of the rocky BLT or the beautiful Postcards from Paraguay...
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Rolling stones have a poll before the gig, and find out the favourite song of the fans, and perform it even if it is not on their regular set list. Greeks voted for She's a rainbow.
Do you really believe it?
Clue : how can you explain that Waitin' On A Friend won "just" the day Joshua Redman was invited on stage by the Stones to guest on it? I litterally pissed my pants witnessing this live. Just another rock n roll swindle IMHO.
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- As a Frenchman like me, don't you like DWB ? it's a good one actually, a good analysis of a rich period of French History. I never understood why this triggered so much hatred, I think Mark is right to elect this (and Rudiger, and ANISLO) as a good representative of GH.
Nada there are much better song on this album. The title song to start with, AWITN, Don't you get it, Je Suis D
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- As a Frenchman like me, don't you like DWB ? it's a good one actually, a good analysis of a rich period of French History. I never understood why this triggered so much hatred, I think Mark is right to elect this (and Rudiger, and ANISLO) as a good representative of GH.
Nada there are much better song on this album. The title song to start with, AWITN, Don't you get it, Je Suis D