A Mark In Time
Previous Albums => Privateering (2012) => Topic started by: stratmad on September 06, 2012, 08:26:54 PM
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Am I looking over it, or has no-one yet begun to analyze the songs? I remember a thread on "Redbud Tree", but can't find another one...?
Well, you've just started one :-) Great idea - let's hope it'll be as inspiring as the one on the late and lamented (?) Red Forum.
Most of the songs _seem_ pretty straightforward - but maybe the tricky bits will start to show only after a while...
One song I can't make much sense of at the moment is the Submariner thing - where, what, why, who's dead and who's alive? And how can be "drowned" when he is "cast away on the water"?
Surprisingly, I can't see much more clearly now than ten minutes ago - can anyone else NOT see a reference to Coleridge?
Does it make sense to think that the guy is dead, or dying / hallucinating, after a battle ("far away from the slaughter")?
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wow spooky, I just started a link 1 min before but heres my tuppence worth:
Along with Rebud tree, Yon two crows, Kingdom of gold, Bluebird & Miss you blues I am really loving Dream of the Drowned Submariner due largely to the lyrics/tune and am wondering what others feel about this particular one?
What with a beautiful tune and haunting lyrics this makes for a perfect show ender I hope.
I interpret the lyrics as if this is the final thoughts of a submariner moments before his submarine plunges downwards after maybe being shot at and his last thoughts are of his wife/even girlfriend moments before the impending death?!
And the 'cast away on the water' lyrics are his dreams drifting into time?
I am also wondering if there is a link with a distant relation of MK here just like PTTE?
'The Slaughter' I reckon could be reference to a battle going on ie: World war or simular
Discuss....
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OK, I just posted this in another thread. Didn't notice there is a new one dedicated to Submariner.
Immediately when I heard Dream of the Drowned Submariner I was curious if MK was inspired by this tragic event: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_submarine_Kursk_explosion
I bet there were quite a few fathers down there... I love this song because it does seem like a dream. It is ethereal and gives and impression that anything can happen. He (the father) is trapped down there in the vault (damaged submarine) and he dreams about his little daughter who runs toward him "on the grass" and he catches her... But in the end it is only a dream because he is at the edge of life and death. They are drowned.
The choice of clarinet playing the main theme is so fitting to this song, so soothing. Electric guitar fills on the other hand add the dramatic feel which in the end takes over... Love it.
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Lovely thoughts there koobaa. Im with you on this one....
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"so went the dream of the drowned submariner"... is at the end of every paragraph.. dreaming of his beautiful daughter, the sunlight, the grass... .for me there are parallels to the lines in 5:15 am,
eighteen sixty-seven
my angel
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wow spooky, I just started a link 1 min before but heres my tuppence worth:
Along with Rebud tree, Yon two crows, Kingdom of gold, Bluebird & Miss you blues I am really loving Dream of the Drowned Submariner due largely to the lyrics/tune and am wondering what others feel about this particular one?
What with a beautiful tune and haunting lyrics this makes for a perfect show ender I hope.
I interpret the lyrics as if this is the final thoughts of a submariner moments before his submarine plunges downwards after maybe being shot at and his last thoughts are of his wife/even girlfriend moments before the impending death?!
And the 'cast away on the water' lyrics are his dreams drifting into time?
I am also wondering if there is a link with a distant relation of MK here just like PTTE?
'The Slaughter' I reckon could be reference to a battle going on ie: World war or simular
Discuss....
Thruppence at the very least, I'd say!
I like the "dreams drifting into time", very poetic!
Actually I'd thought along these lines, like in the other posts, too, but then the "daughter" is odd if it's the wife or girlfriend? But then again, who knows if a soldier's last thoughts aren't with his daughter - like so many young soldiers in the wars who never even had a chance to see their children? I think it's timeless song, could be anywhere, anytime with all the conflicts going on all over the world.
On the other hand, I'm not sure if it couldn't be the happy oppposite: the guy is alive, dozing off on his submarine, which has done a runner from the crazy battle (as in "Done with Bonaparte"), and he's just dreaming that he's drowning?
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I think Kobaa could be close. MK often has inspirition by news, things that happen and books.
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(...) I think it's timeless song, could be anywhere, anytime with all the conflicts going on all over the world.
On the other hand, I'm not sure if it couldn't be the happy oppposite: the guy is alive, dozing off on his submarine, which has done a runner from the crazy battle (as in "Done with Bonaparte"), and he's just dreaming that he's drowning?
Absolutely, I also think it may be anytime anywhere, but I do think there is some intense drama going on there, like they are trapped in the damaged submarine which can't go back up on its own and hypoxia is starting to take its toll. They are gradually losing consciousness... Is it still real or is it just a dream...?
Of course it would be great to know what inspired MK for this one but it's also great to speculate and interpret it our own way. In the end this is probably author's wish.
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The song brings to my mind a German warfilm I once saw. It was about the crew of a German submarine on the Atlantic in the 2nd WW. After having destroyed several enemy ships their vessel was hit and damaged so they couldn't get back home, they were "cast away on the water". All they could do was either surrender to the enemy or hide deep down waiting for death. I don't remember how the film ended, if they actually drowned. In the song the soldier is either dreaming when he's sleeping in his cold bunk in the trapped, "drowned" ship, in the "vault", or at the moment of death he sees his life as a series of flashes. One flash is a peaceful image of the submarine at the start of their journey, smoothly gliding through the sunlit water just below the surface. Another is a horrified glimpse at the devastation their torpedoes caused, "the slaughter". But more than anything his last thought, or his dream, is about his little fair-haired daughter to whom he reaches from his "grave". If this is what the song is about, I'm once again dazzled by Mark's skill in expressing so much with so few words!
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The song brings to my mind a German warfilm I once saw. It was about the crew of a German submarine on the Atlantic in the 2nd WW. After having destroyed several enemy ships their vessel was hit and damaged so they couldn't get back home, they were "cast away on the water". All they could do was either surrender to the enemy or hide deep down waiting for death. I don't remember how the film ended, if they actually drowned. In the song the soldier is either dreaming when he's sleeping in his cold bunk in the trapped, "drowned" ship, in the "vault", or at the moment of death he sees his life as a series of flashes. One flash is a peaceful image of the submarine at the start of their journey, smoothly gliding through the sunlit water just below the surface. Another is a horrified glimpse at the devastation their torpedoes caused, "the slaughter". But more than anything his last thought, or his dream, is about his little fair-haired daughter to whom he reaches from his "grave". If this is what the song is about, I'm once again dazzled by Mark's skill in expressing so much with so few words!
Very well written!
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Is it that film?
(http://ws.assoc-amazon.com/widgets/q?_encoding=UTF8&Format=_ML100_&ASIN=0767802470&MarketPlace=US&ID=AsinImage&WS=1&tag=storchar-20&ServiceVersion=20070822)
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"Das Boot" makes perfect sense..a tremendous movie about the horrors of life aboard a diesel-powered sub. The 'slaughter' that they bore witness to..whether it was the destruction caused by their torpedoes..or the death that surrounded them on board the ship as it was being torn apart by depth charges. The stale air..constant stench in the air..and grease and oil from the diesel everywhere..it's a wonder how submariners coped with it. Did anyone notice the sound of the wind at the opening of the song....one gets the feeling of a tormented soul finally finding peace as it is "cast away across the water". What a gorgeous song!
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"Das Boot" was a wonderful film - very claustrophobic. In Britain it was a mini-series and it was compulsive viewing! The Captain, was very charismatic, played by the wonderful Jurgen Prochnow. I don't remember any of the submariners dreaming about their daughter, but it was a long time since I last saw the film.
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It is one of my favourite movies - have watched all versions several times - and I can assure you that no daughter is in no dream at all - the only stuff the crew dreamed about was stuff that I am not allowed to post here - which was a typical sign for pure existential fear...
LE
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I meant that maybe Mark got the idea for the song from this film, not that the song would strictly follow the plot. Who knows? He has said that bits and pieces from here and there go to the "junkyard" of his head and he may use them in a song later. But don't you agree that when he puts these bits and pieces together with a melody, it becomes a gem!
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I meant that maybe Mark got the idea for the song from this film, not that the song would strictly follow the plot. Who knows? He has said that bits and pieces from here and there go to the "junkyard" of his head and he may use them in a song later. But don't you agree that when he puts these bits and pieces together with a melody, it becomes a gem!
I whole-heartedly agree...he stated in the interview that accompanied the deluxe set that "Haul Away" was inspired by a scene from a Patrick O'Brian book..said scene is also in the movie based on the book..."Master and Commander..the far side of the world". He does seem to take bits and pieces from different influences..and craft them into a real beauty!
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I do love this song. And, I enjoyed Hop's question to Guy today and hope to find more 'hidden sounds'.
My first listen to this song--and you know how first listens go--I thought it was the daughter imagining her father's last thoughts. I think it was in part the sing-song, innocent like quality of Mark's voice, the melody is haunting, eerie and beautiful--it can also seem a little demented OR innocent--which makes it especially beautiful to me. Anyway... I imagined a conversation sort of like: " how did daddy die" Mom: " he drowned in a submarine"...daughter " what is drowning like " Mom" like going to sleep " ...and so she imagines his last thoughts were of her.
But, on subsequent listening I came to the same conclusion the rest of you here did...that he did in fact drown, and dreamt of his daughter.
These atmospheric songs are always awesome.
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Sorry to bring up this old topic again.. but it struck me while listening to the Stuttgart Live version (several times in a row) what we know about the meaning of this great song.. Kursk and the date of his birthday..
as it was usual back in GUS days, maybe news were reporting a few days later about the catastrophe, and Mark just had celebrated a beautiful birthday in August with his (then) two years-old daughter (Isabella). He might have thought back to that sunny day in the garden, thinking, my god, that day I was so happy, in the garden playing with my "darling, my beautiful daughter", these poor guys were sitting there, in the vault... hope you get the picture. Some sort of sorrow and sadness. Both pictures, the beautiful and the sad, maybe let the idea of the song going... how close it all sticks together, being happy and being sad..., and of course as a happy dad, feeling with other fathers, being sure that those guys in the Kursk had left family members, too...
Maybe naive and a little broad interpretation, it might come from my curiousness about what the heck Mark is doing on his birthdays...
;)
LE
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Sorry to bring up this old topic again.. but it struck me while listening to the Stuttgart Live version (several times in a row) what we know about the meaning of this great song.. Kursk and the date of his birthday..
as it was usual back in GUS days, maybe news were reporting a few days later about the catastrophe, and Mark just had celebrated a beautiful birthday in August with his (then) two years-old daughter (Isabella). He might have thought back to that sunny day in the garden, thinking, my god, that day I was so happy, in the garden playing with my "darling, my beautiful daughter", these poor guys were sitting there, in the vault... hope you get the picture. Some sort of sorrow and sadness. Both pictures, the beautiful and the sad, maybe let the idea of the song going... how close it all sticks together, being happy and being sad..., and of course as a happy dad, feeling with other fathers, being sure that those guys in the Kursk had left family members, too...
Maybe naive and a little broad interpretation, it might come from my curiousness about what the heck Mark is doing on his birthdays...
;)
LE
LE - You've done it again! :clap
Ever since your interpretation of Marbletown, I have had a mental picture, every time I listen to the song, of the hobo resting on the gravestones, then pricking up his ears when he hears the next train coming and then his frantic running to catch the train!
Now, thanks to you, I have another picture, this time to accompany DOTDS, of Mark, thinking back to that beautiful sunny day in the garden, playing with baby Isabella.
It's a really beautiful song and I think Stuttgart is probably my favourite performance.
Just one thing - what is GUS? :think
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Val, my mistake (another again today, too much holiday it seems... ) GUS is the German Abbreviation of what you should have called CIS (?) I googled it and found out about my mistake - what I mean is the then usual name of the bigger part of the former Soviet Union - that's at least what I connected with the Kursk... I could have said "Russia" instead... ;D but was not completely sure about the political constellations then..
Nice that you are willing to follow my picture. :)
LE