A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: zeusjazmin on October 04, 2012, 10:01:30 PM
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hello everyone,this is my first post,just looking to see what everyones opinions are regarding mk drummers.
he has used an awful lot in his career,if i remember correctly it was either mark or chris whitten who said "drummers have been slaughtering sultans for years".
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Chris Whitten said that MK said that...
Chris Whitten, that literally killed SOS.
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No I would not agree. I think he did a good job especially during the first part of the tour in 1991... loved the way he got the slow part started...
Drummers - always good to discuss! I think we did not for at least a week!! ;D ;D
Welcome zeusjazmin, don't care about what I say here! How comes I feel very familiar with your nick name? Did you post on MKNews, too?? Nice to see you here! :D
LE
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LE I totally disagree...
Drummers are one of the main things to me when listening to MK music in all his periods, and Chris Whitten, I had bad memories about his playing with Dire Straits, and not long ago I watched the Basel dvd and when they were playing SOS; I had to stop it...
Horrible, nonsense playing, like he was playing a totally different song... I dislike him now more than ever... A good proffesional drummer that playing with DS was the worst of all DS drummers, imho.
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Oh, I know your opinion about Chris Whitten, jbaent!! ;D But I can't help it...
Next thing I can't help is that I think that the best drummer in the history of DS was Pick Withers (obviously), but the best one in Mark's solo career was Chad Cromwell...
AND after that ExtendedancEPlay thread, I suddently felt the urge to listen to Two Young Lovers again, but the Alchemy version, and that drummer was good, too!
I think, Ian Thomas first of all has to play Sultans before I really judge him... but then again, who am I, I have no idea about drumming, I don't even have any sense of rhythm, but I'm a good talker...
LE
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Now its where we agree, LE...
Pick Withers was high quality, and responsible of part of the early Dire Straits sound.
Chad Cromwell is the best drummer that MK ever had, although playing live sometimes was a little heavy drumming.
Terry Williams was not the more technical one but he had a great feeling, very powerful playing, maybe sometimes too much, but really great for live concerts.
Ian Thomas... I always have second thoughts about him. I know how good he is as I saw him playing beautifully with other artists, but with MK... I dont know what happens to me with him when he
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yep i also post on mk news.
i dont want anyone thinking i have joined up just to post negative comments,i am 99% happy with all ds/mk related stuff,however being a drummer myself i like a good discussion ;D
regarding chris whitten,a good drummer but....not in ds,for me he never really got the feel of the songs,quite robotic if you see what i mean.
terry williams really had a feel for the songs that the straits were doing then,a great rock n roll drummer who really beefed the songs up.
great as terry is he just wouldnt be suited to any of mk stuff now,which starts the danny cummings/ian thomas debate :D.
mk wanted a new drummer and hired ian,thats mk choice,ian is one of the most in demand drummers in the world,much as i was very happy with danny im forward to seeing ian do sultans.
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Obviously kiddin' about Chris Whitten. I like his work with Paul McCartney, but as Zeusjazmin said, with DS it looks like he never felt the songs and played so strange and weird...
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Now its where we agree, LE...
Pick Withers was high quality, and responsible of part of the early Dire Straits sound.
Chad Cromwell is the best drummer that MK ever had, although playing live sometimes was a little heavy drumming.
Terry Williams was not the more technical one but he had a great feeling, very powerful playing, maybe sometimes too much, but really great for live concerts.
Ian Thomas... I always have second thoughts about him. I know how good he is as I saw him playing beautifully with other artists, but with MK... I dont know what happens to me with him when he
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I'm by no means expert but I never liked Chads style. If you listen to any (or most) of the bootlegs from the STP tour e.g. during the louder parts he hits his symbols far too often and creates a terrible ringing sound all over the top of Marks solo's in Sultans and TR. Try the Lucca soundboard for his symbol ruining Marks soloing at it's worst. :disbelief
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I fear Ian Thomas playing Sultans...
I tested his playing with Why aye man and Speedway, both tracks where Chad Cromwell and Danny Cummings played their best.
Ian played them well, but very standard, heartless versions of it. But in other tracks where I didnt expected anything special, he did some things that I really liked, little bits that are technical.
Mixed feelings.
There are some threads where we talk specifically about Ian Thomas, just use the search box. ;)
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I'm by no means expert but I never liked Chads style. If you listen to any (or most) of the bootlegs from the STP tour e.g. during the louder parts he hits his symbols far too often and creates a terrible ringing sound all over the top of Marks solo's in Sultans and TR. Try the Lucca soundboard for his symbol ruining Marks soloing at it's worst. :disbelief
Yes, Chad specially ruined SOS with that hard and heavy drumming, but played very well other tracks. His playing at the end of Speedway was powerful, and his MFN intro as well...
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I'm by no means expert but I never liked Chads style. If you listen to any (or most) of the bootlegs from the STP tour e.g. during the louder parts he hits his symbols far too often and creates a terrible ringing sound all over the top of Marks solo's in Sultans and TR. Try the Lucca soundboard for his symbol ruining Marks soloing at it's worst. :disbelief
Yes, Chad specially ruined SOS with that hard and heavy drumming, but played very well other tracks. His playing at the end of Speedway was powerful, and his MFN intro as well...
Yes, Speedway from 2001 was VERY powerful due in part to Chad.
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Pick Withers was high quality, and responsible of part of the early Dire Straits sound.
Chad Cromwell is the best drummer that MK ever had, although playing live sometimes was a little heavy drumming.
For me (and almost 100% of DS fans), Pick is the best drummer. In MK's solo career, I like Danny Cummings the most.
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It probably has to do with Mark's wishes, but I really think Chad did a lot more stunning things on the album than Danny... The only really great drumming I remember from Danny is on "We Can Get Wild", and that is still very subtle... whereas the complete STP album sounds like a "job application" for Chad. Or just take "Don't You Get It", that song really is a dialogue between Mark's guitar and the drums -aweseome..
LE
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DANNY CUMMINGS !!!!!!!!!!!!! (sorry I can't write it in bigger fonts
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Oh yeah, forgot about CE back in '96 with Chad Nico. Rubbish.
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For me my favourite has to be DANNY CUMMINGS by a fair mile purely for being in the background where the drums should be and also adding 'nice touches' to various tunes.
To be fair Ian sounded good live in Bournemouth last year on the BD/MK tour, so will be very open minded next year.
Chris Whitten/Chad/Terry reminded me of 'Animal' from the muppets in the way they played espeically!
I really don't like Chads drums on 'A night in London' they sound awful!
Not at all Dire Straits for me!
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My opinion on Mark's drummers:
PW: Genius... Mark was so lucky to find that guy. Shame he left.
TW: Great feeling, lots of energy, charisma... However, in terms of technique he's the weakest one so far.
CW: As everyone says, sounds and looks like a robot. Of course he's a great drummer (he must be) but never got it with DS.
CC: IMHO the best one since Mark launched his solo career. His depart is still unclear though.
DC: Great guy but to me it always felt like the rest of the band were another league.
IT: Still adapting. I think we are yet to witness what the man is capable of. Promissing.
Again, it's just my opinion...
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DC: Great guy but to me it always felt like the rest of the band were another league.
Again, it's just my opinion...
And everyone is entitled to it of course
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My opinion on Mark's drummers:
PW: Genius... Mark was so lucky to find that guy. Shame he left.
TW: Great feeling, lots of energy, charisma... However, in terms of technique he's the weakest one so far.
CW: As everyone says, sounds and looks like a robot. Of course he's a great drummer (he must be) but never got it with DS.
CC: IMHO the best one since Mark launched his solo career. His depart is still unclear though.
DC: Great guy but to me it always felt like the rest of the band were another league.
IT: Still adapting. I think we are yet to witness what the man is capable of. Promissing.
Again, it's just my opinion...
I agree with you in every comment, except for Danny Cummings. I think DC was able to capture the needing of a laid-back aproach in some songs.
As for Chris Whitten, it's impressive how he could manage to do a great, great job on McCartneys's "Flowers in the dirt" (one of the few PM's albums I do own), fitting amazingly with the amazingly enough Paul and Costello's compositions, or before, in Paul's intergalactic tour from the very ending of the 80's, but couldn't reproduce it a couple of years latter on OES tour. "My brave face", for instance, is pure Beatles, much of it for the chorus but also because of the drumming jog he did.
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Hey how about Ed? He played with the Notting Hillbillies and he did a fine job. ;D
I never liked CW, even with McCartney. His sound was hallow and cheap, like a drum machine.
PW is by far my favourite. I miss his playing.
TW was great, but fitted in a rock'n'roll band.
But, I think that since MK is moving around the music idiom (folk, rock, jazz, country etc), he has to either chose different drummers for each recording and live, or take a good steady one, to cover all bases. So this is the reason nobody is happy with the latest drummers. And from the last three I much prefer DC. I don't know about his league but he fitted better and played with heart and soul.
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Hey how about Ed? He played with the Notting Hillbillies and he did a fine job. ;D
I never liked CW, even with McCartney. His sound was hallow and cheap, like a drum machine.
PW is by far my favourite. I miss his playing.
TW was great, but fitted in a rock'n'roll band.
But, I think that since MK is moving around the music idiom (folk, rock, jazz, country etc), he has to either chose different drummers for each recording and live, or take a good steady one, to cover all bases. So this is the reason nobody is happy with the latest drummers. And from the last three I much prefer DC. I don't know about his league but he fitted better and played with heart and soul.
That's a good point there; we often forget that Mark's music covers so many different fields these days, some of them never before ventured! This represents a problem for a drummer who plays in all songs where other instruments can come in and out. Danny was pretty good at this due to his great percussion experience - maybe it would be better to have Danny on percussion with a drummer like on the OES tour to cover the wide range of Mark's music. They needn't play together all the time like they did back then but drift in and out as required. :-\
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I've often thought that it is hard to compare all the drummers, because they haven't all had the same opportunity to play the same kind of material, and some played mostly or only live (Terry Williams, Chris Whitten), and some played mostly or only in the studio (Omar Hakim, Jeff Porcaro).
Personally I like Pick best, but I think Omar and Jeff are probably the best drummers MK has played with. I think Danny did a great job, and wish he would have gotten more of a chance to show his chops on the two albums he played on.
A year from now we'll all have a clear opinion of Ian, I'm sure!
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Tell me, who does better than this man ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNU2VLIEeK4
No one. And Speedway is an example among others of course.
(In Jack Bauer's style) : CALL HIM BACK NOW !! That's what I decided to name "The Ice Field Effect"
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I've often thought that it is hard to compare all the drummers, because they haven't all had the same opportunity to play the same kind of material, and some played mostly or only live (Terry Williams, Chris Whitten), and some played mostly or only in the studio (Omar Hakim, Jeff Porcaro).
Personally I like Pick best, but I think Omar and Jeff are probably the best drummers MK has played with. I think Danny did a great job, and wish he would have gotten more of a chance to show his chops on the two albums he played on.
A year from now we'll all have a clear opinion of Ian, I'm sure!
I think the drums at the end of Why Bother on the album are great.
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I love Ian Thomas' drumming on the new album very much. Don't Forget Your Hat, I Used To Could, and above all Today Is Okay are all great. Only failure is the "drumming" on the song Privateering itself. That's just a joke compared to the live versions from 2011... Just listen to Hannover 2011 for example and you know what I mean.
LE
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I've always enjoyed how all the drummers have brought something different to the table. They each have their own unique way of playing and their styles make the songs sound totally different. I personally really loved Whitten and his style was so good on Sultans. I also thought Cummings was brilliant at the start but tailed off a little on his last tour with MK. The cream of the crop for me most definitely would be Terry Williams..... he is just outstanding as a drummer. His energy and style on stage was unparalleled in my opinion
As always, each to their own.
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I'll also add that Thomas is very promising....... just listen to him on Privateering. Excellent. Can't wait to hear him unleash himself live :)
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Tell me, who does better than this man ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNU2VLIEeK4
No one. And Speedway is an example among others of course.
(In Jack Bauer's style) : CALL HIM BACK NOW !! That's what I decided to name "The Ice Field Effect"
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Well, of course drumming, like all music, is subjective.
Pick Withers: absolutely LOVE his drumming on the first 2 albums. Perfect fit for MK's style at the time.
Terry Williams: wonderful high energy rock drummer; I think his playing coaxed a lot of MK's playing; especially on AlChemy. However, he was a bit of a bull in a china shop on some of the mellower pieces.
Omar Hakim: One of the finest drummers in the world; some wonderfully subtle playing on BIA
Jeff Porcaro/Manu Katche: Wonderful session drummers, would've loved to have seen one of them on the OES tour.
Chris Whitten: Good player, just never really did anything for me. (Danny Cumming's percussion playing was fantastic on that tour)
Chad Cromwell: Good player, capable of coaxing some high energy performances out of MK.
Danny Cummings: Never did it for me as a drummer. Wonderful percussionist, just not a good enough kit player for an artist of MK's stature.
Ian Thomas: Awesome player, big improvement on Danny. Love his groove and looking forward to seeing him on Wednesday.
IMHO high energy drummers seem to illicit more high energy performances out of MK. In a live setting, the drummer is SO important!
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100% agree with last 2 posts
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Chris Whitten said that MK said that...
Chris Whitten, that literally killed SOS.
Can't agree more...!
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After 2 2013 attended shows I can start to make my minds about Ian in the place of Danny.
I am not a drummer nor a real musician so my words may be not 100% technicaly accurate but I rely on feeling during SOS.
During the Danny's years, SOS was the highlight of drumming, I could just concentrate on his palying and enjoy it.
One thing to do such a thing is as a quite big MK concert goer I could have the luxury to concentrate on one instrument without feeling spoiling my pleasure of the song, I had enough nights to attend that I could mute in my mind on one or too night the rest of the musicians.
The second reason is that SOS turned to be not as enjoyable as it used to be, so let take pleasure were you can.
So although not academic drum playing I had real joice listening the sole Mr Horsepower on that song, it was "a show in the show". Really fun to witness and to listen.
On the other side Ian's drumming sounds quite different than Danny's, I did not have the same pleasure to only concentrate on it, there is not the same entertertaining feel.
BUT what a drummer, because the result for the song as a whole sound just better. I mean that the 2013 drum part, strong tempo, is really to serve the song, so what you a are loosing in the "fun swing" is rewarded by an overall better performance of SOS.
I put Ian in the category of player that you won't particulary notice when he is in but you will notice the absence when is isn't.
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Although Ian
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Although Ian
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But it's the way Sultans had to be played ins't it?
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No, the way its mean to be its smooth, like Pick Whithers used to play. It adds to the groove.
The way Whitten and Thomas play it, adds noise.
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No, the way its mean to be its smooth, like Pick Whithers used to play. It adds to the groove.
The way Whitten and Thomas play it, adds noise.
I had contrary fellings about this.
at first I alwasy prefered the alchemy version, with more power, more up-tempo, more "rock"
but my friend-drummer made me listen carrefully the studio version, and indeed, the Pick style fits more to the song.
A strange thing is that we (mostly) all love when sultans is "energic" "up-tempo" "fast", with power"...
but this song is about a little jazz band. it's about SWING. the music should be "laid back", smooth, cool, "pub style", not the stadium-rock-tune as it evolved in 80-81, and 82-83.
I think that the way it has been played during 80ies and 90ies (althgought I love it ) is in contradiction with that this song is all about
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No, the way its mean to be its smooth, like Pick Whithers used to play. It adds to the groove.
The way Whitten and Thomas play it, adds noise.
I had contrary fellings about this.
at first I alwasy prefered the alchemy version, with more power, more up-tempo, more "rock"
but my friend-drummer made me listen carrefully the studio version, and indeed, the Pick style fits more to the song.
A strange thing is that we (mostly) all love when sultans is "energic" "up-tempo" "fast", with power"...
but this song is about a little jazz band. it's about SWING. the music should be "laid back", smooth, cool, "pub style", not the stadium-rock-tune as it evolved in 80-81, and 82-83.
I think that the way it has been played during 80ies and 90ies (althgought I love it ) is in contradiction with that this song is all about
I understand what you say, but it isn't about what we should like (because that's what the song's about), but what we do like! Isn't that the main thing? :)
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No, the way its mean to be its smooth, like Pick Whithers used to play. It adds to the groove.
The way Whitten and Thomas play it, adds noise.
I had contrary fellings about this.
at first I alwasy prefered the alchemy version, with more power, more up-tempo, more "rock"
but my friend-drummer made me listen carrefully the studio version, and indeed, the Pick style fits more to the song.
A strange thing is that we (mostly) all love when sultans is "energic" "up-tempo" "fast", with power"...
but this song is about a little jazz band. it's about SWING. the music should be "laid back", smooth, cool, "pub style", not the stadium-rock-tune as it evolved in 80-81, and 82-83.
I think that the way it has been played during 80ies and 90ies (althgought I love it ) is in contradiction with that this song is all about
But how much Mark does care with the meaning.
He saw musical potential in that song and developped it (especially during the 198/1981 era when almost everything DS has done before had been re arranged) and then went back to the recorded form. I don't know if it was conciously done or that just it hapened but Mark did adapt the song to the fact they had become big and then huge, ending by louding it with a sax part. And the "rock oriented" drumming part, on a pure musical level, also fit the the song.
After it is a personnal matter of taste, I like both but my fave goes to 91-96 versions, all with heavy drumming mode. Now I miss the piano break (although what Jim did in '96 was sort "uuh") and then the interplay with the guitar and don't get with the keyboard addition on the first part as featured between 1980-1989.
About Ian use of cymbals, to my ears I have more memories of Danny using them than Ian..
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Errr
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I've been to the concert in Berlin a few days ago and I was really angry about Ian's drumming. IMHO he butchered "What It Is" and particularly "Telegraph Road". The latter one sounded like a marching band during the outro :disbelief
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To date I did not pay attention on the drumming for TR. Was too occuped with Mark during the end solo. Chad was great on it.
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To date I did not pay attention on the drumming for TR. Was too occuped with Mark during the end solo. Chad was great on it.
I love Terry's crash cymbals during the outro the Alchemy version
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To date I did not pay attention on the drumming for TR. Was too occuped with Mark during the end solo. Chad was great on it.
I love Terry's crash cymbals during the outro the Alchemy version
:thumbsup
Almost iconic!
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To date I did not pay attention on the drumming for TR. Was too occuped with Mark during the end solo. Chad was great on it.
I love Terry's crash cymbals during the outro the Alchemy version
:thumbsup
Almost iconic!
Alchemy is TR's reference version, I really cherish it, it is powerful, emotional, and we have it on Blu-Ray (the only one !).
Still it is not my absolute favourite. It is a bit too "rough" for my taste, and I would like some synth in the instrumental part after "3 lanes moving slow"... I think nothing can beat the 1996/2001/2005 versions, this was the pinacle of TR.
Next would be Alchemy, or the gorgeous first 1981 versions, so fresh...
The OES versions are getting on my nerve, fantastic end solo but all the rest is ruined, shortened intro, too much rush, horrible pedal steel, Kenny G guitar...
As for the 2008/2010/2013 versions, 'nuff said about the karaoke mode... even if I like the renewed energy of this year's end solo, Instanbul is quite awesome.
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To date I did not pay attention on the drumming for TR. Was too occuped with Mark during the end solo. Chad was great on it.
I love Terry's crash cymbals during the outro the Alchemy version
:thumbsup
Almost iconic!
Alchemy is TR's reference version, I really cherish it, it is powerful, emotional, and we have it on Blu-Ray (the only one !).
Still it is not my absolute favourite. It is a bit too "rough" for my taste, and I would like some synth in the instrumental part after "3 lanes moving slow"... I think nothing can beat the 1996/2001/2005 versions, this was the pinacle of TR.
Next would be Alchemy, or the gorgeous first 1981 versions, so fresh...
The OES versions are getting on my nerve, fantastic end solo but all the rest is ruined, shortened intro, too much rush, horrible pedal steel, Kenny G guitar...
As for the 2008/2010/2013 versions, 'nuff said about the karaoke mode... even if I like the renewed energy of this year's end solo, Instanbul is quite awesome.
as for the "synth" atmosphere, I think that noone can't beat the studio version. It's of course the most produced, with so many guitars (7 ! check i there : http://www.mk-guitar.com/gear-on-all-songs-for-all-albums-wiki/gear-on-album-love-over-gold/#Track%201%20-%20Telegraph%20road (http://www.mk-guitar.com/gear-on-all-songs-for-all-albums-wiki/gear-on-album-love-over-gold/#Track%201%20-%20Telegraph%20road)), gorgeous tone, ambient effects, and.. it doesn't end !
I love the intro beacuse it' so "envelopped" with strings, synths and so one.
as for live versions, I agree for 96 (I love RAH 23/05), but my fav is Alchemy I think, and I love 81 versions too.
about 91, I agree about shortened intro, and about pedal steel, BUT I like the sax solo, can't explain why, but I remember feelin very surprised when I it heard live. I found it sounds "romantic" like you said for TOL Munich 91, I find it "etheral", "aerian", and I find it fit to the song. But of course, I do love the guitar solo on other versions too.
And I love some licks on final solo (especially on basel or Nimes) that he never played again.
after 2008, I must admit I skip TR when I listen to bootlegs. Or sometimes, I have a short listen for the final solo. The show end (from SAN to last encore) doesnt' really bother me, as it is the same since 3 tours.
Endly, as for 2001 and 2005 versions, I heard it live, but don't really remember it. I know you often quote Lyon 2005. Funny, I was there, and I don't remember being impressed (well not much more than in 96). The only thing that surprised me was that I saw TR played on a red strat for the first time !
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To date I did not pay attention on the drumming for TR. Was too occuped with Mark during the end solo. Chad was great on it.
I love Terry's crash cymbals during the outro the Alchemy version
:thumbsup
Almost iconic!
Alchemy is TR's reference version, I really cherish it, it is powerful, emotional, and we have it on Blu-Ray (the only one !).
Still it is not my absolute favourite. It is a bit too "rough" for my taste, and I would like some synth in the instrumental part after "3 lanes moving slow"... I think nothing can beat the 1996/2001/2005 versions, this was the pinacle of TR.
Next would be Alchemy, or the gorgeous first 1981 versions, so fresh...
The OES versions are getting on my nerve, fantastic end solo but all the rest is ruined, shortened intro, too much rush, horrible pedal steel, Kenny G guitar...
As for the 2008/2010/2013 versions, 'nuff said about the karaoke mode... even if I like the renewed energy of this year's end solo, Instanbul is quite awesome.
as for the "synth" atmosphere, I think that noone can't beat the studio version. It's of course the most produced, with so many guitars (7 ! check i there : http://www.mk-guitar.com/gear-on-all-songs-for-all-albums-wiki/gear-on-album-love-over-gold/#Track%201%20-%20Telegraph%20road (http://www.mk-guitar.com/gear-on-all-songs-for-all-albums-wiki/gear-on-album-love-over-gold/#Track%201%20-%20Telegraph%20road)), gorgeous tone, ambient effects, and.. it doesn't end !
I love the intro beacuse it' so "envelopped" with strings, synths and so one.
as for live versions, I agree for 96 (I love RAH 23/05), but my fav is Alchemy I think, and I love 81 versions too.
about 91, I agree about shortened intro, and about pedal steel, BUT I like the sax solo, can't explain why, but I remember feelin very surprised when I it heard live. I found it sounds "romantic" like you said for TOL Munich 91, I find it "etheral", "aerian", and I find it fit to the song. But of course, I do love the guitar solo on other versions too.
And I love some licks on final solo (especially on basel or Nimes) that he never played again.
after 2008, I must admit I skip TR when I listen to bootlegs. Or sometimes, I have a short listen for the final solo. The show end (from SAN to last encore) doesnt' really bother me, as it is the same since 3 tours.
Endly, as for 2001 and 2005 versions, I heard it live, but don't really remember it. I know you often quote Lyon 2005. Funny, I was there, and I don't remember being impressed (well not much more than in 96). The only thing that surprised me was that I saw TR played on a red strat for the first time !
The studio version is great but as MK himself said, it is too cold - the vocals are way less emotional than live...
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As for the much lauded Lyon 2005 TR, although full of energy I found many other versions favourable from the same tour such as: Amsterdam 16th, Milan, Vancouver and also Sydney.
I think 2001 was the pinnacle because the intricate playing between verses was superb too which added a little bit more power and kept it flowing, keeping the attention.
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Sorry for the necro thread revival, but since this is the "drummers" thread, I thought you'd like this. Here's an interview with Chris Whitten. I think it sheds some light on why Chris wasn't a great fit.
Who the hell is Chris Whitten? by Darko.Audio podcast | Free Listening on SoundCloud (https://soundcloud.com/johnhdarko/chriswhitten)
DS: Starts at about 40:00
Basically: a) He didn't like the music of DS, b) he wasn't motivated to go on a world tour again after the McCartney tour, c) he was very much into electronic music at the time, not guitar-driven rock, d) he had heard that MK was a tyrant and really hates drummers (!) (on tour he thought MK was hard to deal with, that he was a perfectionist and particularly hard on drummers), e) it was crazy loud on stage, etc.
Kind of hard to pour your soul into the music when you join the band just to do a job and you have an unpleasant time on the road, which lasted 1.5 years.
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Sorry for the necro thread revival, but since this is the "drummers" thread, I thought you'd like this. Here's an interview with Chris Whitten. I think it sheds some light on why Chris wasn't a great fit.
Who the hell is Chris Whitten? by Darko.Audio podcast | Free Listening on SoundCloud (https://soundcloud.com/johnhdarko/chriswhitten)
DS: Starts at about 40:00
Basically: a) He didn't like the music of DS, b) he wasn't motivated to go on a world tour again after the McCartney tour, c) he was very much into electronic music at the time, not guitar-driven rock, d) he had heard that MK was a tyrant and really hates drummers (!) (on tour he thought MK was hard to deal with, that he was a perfectionist and particularly hard on drummers), e) it was crazy loud on stage, etc.
Kind of hard to pour your soul into the music when you join the band just to do a job and you have an unpleasant time on the road, which lasted 1.5 years.
It all makes sense, actually. What I don't understand is the criticism towards the sound of drums on On Every Street tour, even Mark has said something unpleasant about it. And I don't hear a thing, I think the drums sound pretty professional and good enough. I think the tour generally was extremely tough to pull off, so bashing single musicians is kind of pointless to me, I think after OES tour there's was no winners, only survivors.
You can say, how you can't love DS music? My wife once said, "not everyone loves MK and his music", and that's certainly true. My mum is not a fan of MK either. So people not loving DS is completely normal, especially if that's a session musician we're talking about.
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Plus you have to remember that from the release of BIA and a few years onwards, Dire Straits were everywhere, on radio, in lifts, in shopping malls, on MTV, etc. And, even though they were popular, they were not "hip".
As for the drum sound, I think it is pretty harsh compared with what we are used to hearing today. However, that hard snare drum thing was quite popular at that time, so nothing unusual in that respect.
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MK just wasn't happy in the OES era and it filtered down to everyone.
A lesson for any "leader", CEO, football manager etc...
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MK just wasn't happy in the OES era and it filtered down to everyone.
A lesson for any "leader", CEO, football manager etc...
A lesson, which Mark seems to learn only in parts even till today. He often says in interviews that "kids nowadays" won't ever think to do a 100-shows tour, while he, an old man, can do it no problem. I never understood that. I never understood why his biggest tours had to be THAT long, I mean a year and a half of playing same songs over and over again — man! I know in theater people can play the same role for decades, but this is not theater as far as I'm concerned.
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MK just wasn't happy in the OES era and it filtered down to everyone.
That too, of course. On top of all the other factors that Chris mentions in the interview.
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I always loved Chris Whitten's drums on Sultans at the first indoor tour part 1991. I think that Chad Cromwell copied that for his 1996 Sultans or at least used it as a model for his version. I hate it to use the word really but I think Chris Whitten's drumming within MK's world is very underrated among fans. And for not being into it, he made a very good job. Much better than Ianto in 2013 I might add.
LE
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I always loved Chris Whitten's drums on Sultans at the first indoor tour part 1991. I think that Chad Cromwell copied that for his 1996 Sultans or at least used it as a model for his version. I hate it to use the word really but I think Chris Whitten's drumming within MK's world is very underrated among fans. And for not being into it, he made a very good job. Much better than Ianto in 2013 I might add.
LE
You nailed this LE. Somebody needed to say that, and you did.
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I need to revisit to On The Night and have a listen to Chris' drumming.
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Listening to Calling Elvis as I type. Chris' playing for sure is extremely tight, almost machine-like.
By the way, Mark's voice then time sounds as if Mark now had a cold LOL
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Listening to Calling Elvis as I type. Chris' playing for sure is extremely tight, almost machine-like.
By the way, Mark's voice then time sounds as if Mark now had a cold LOL
Yes, tight is the word. I can't say that he's a machine, his playing is pretty musical to my taste, he certainly serves the song well. You'd never tell he's not into this music, a sign of the real professional.
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MK just wasn't happy in the OES era and it filtered down to everyone.
A lesson for any "leader", CEO, football manager etc...
MK may not have enjoyed that era likely for all sorts of personal reasons, but back then during the '91/'92 tour his guitar playing made up for it was definitely on point at this time.....perhaps as good as it got for skill/speed/generally noodling?
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I play drums, and always thought that Whitten playing, specially in "Sultans" didn't match with the feeling of the song, he added many toms and crash here and there,.
The most apropiate one, in my opinion as drummer, was Pick, that served the song like the song asks, Terry added more power and speed, but it was also deserved as the song when Terry was playing was more fast and with more energy. The drummers that MK had during his solo career, I think only Danny got to play what "Sultans" needed, the rest did more or less ok, and to my taste, I liked them more than Whitten that, I like him playing with Macca or with Presuntos Implicados (a Spanish band in which Whitten also played).
Pick Whiters was perfect for the first incarnation of DS, Terry was perfect for the rock and roller Straits, and Jeff Porcaro or Manu Katché would had been perfect for the OES tour, but they said no unfortunately. :(
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There is new Q&A with Pick Withers on the MK fans worldwide -page, under the Announcements section
https://www.facebook.com/groups/mark.knopfler.fans/announcements
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I'm by no means expert but I never liked Chads style. If you listen to any (or most) of the bootlegs from the STP tour e.g. during the louder parts he hits his symbols far too often and creates a terrible ringing sound all over the top of Marks solo's in Sultans and TR. Try the Lucca soundboard for his symbol ruining Marks soloing at it's worst. :disbelief
Haha, funnily enough did I read somewhere years ago that MK was fed up with too much cymbal playing from Chad and also Danny. Got a feeling there is clips of MK giving both Chad and Danny 'looks' when they are smashing the living daylights out of their Cymbals - pretty sure the stares can be seen on the 'golden heart' (Jools Holland) dvd and the 'all the road running' dvd
Can I add my four pence wirth and say I wasn't too keen on Chris Whitten as a drummer for DS. A good drummer but not for DS....