A Mark In Time

General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: twm on October 19, 2012, 09:16:54 PM

Title: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 19, 2012, 09:16:54 PM
Johnny 'allyday is not my favourite at all (not in any way) but you might find this faintlyinteresting, even faintly amusing. It concerns his recent Albert Hall concert and the piece was written by Melvyn Bragg, who is a radio and TV "culture vulture" in Britain (actually he's very good and takes culture in its widest sense, which is admirable). It is from a circular e-mail:

And on we go. The week's been a very funny one. Andrew Lloyd Webber got a gang together to go and see Johnny Hallyday on his first ever concert in London. This seventy-something French rock star is a phenomenon. The French don't like rock and roll, or they didn't when I first went to Paris to work in the late 50s and then frequently in the 60s, the French loved jazz, especially black jazz, and their own chansons and ballads. Rock and roll they regarded as vulgar. Johnny Hallyday, who had spent part of his early life in America, loved rock and roll and set out to become the leading, in fact the solitary, rock and roller in the whole of France. He dominates France. His concerts are always sold out, but elsewhere in the world he is ignored and sometimes even dismissed.

He's a good old rocker and he filled the Albert Hall with wildly enthusiastic French people who sang along to his songs, and he did the rock and roll thing of holding out the mic so that they could sing while he took a break. He was dressed head to toe in leather. The light show was blinding so that you needed dark glasses just to pick him out on the stage. He has a voice which has the power of a Harley Davidson at full throttle.

Hallyday is actually 69, not 70, but, nevertheless, the idea of him "dressed head to toe in leather" and in front of the likes of Andrew Lloyd-Webber and Melvyn Bragg brought a wry smile  to my lips. Sorry, Francophiles.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: Pottel on October 19, 2012, 10:07:11 PM
Johnny's Belgian.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: herlock on October 19, 2012, 11:15:29 PM
Johnny's Belgian.
As a French I feel ashamed that Johnny is all what we have to offer... I can't understand my fellow citizens queing by thousands dressed up like him. He is a showman, true, but I almost never composed or wrote a song...

As John Lenon put it briefly but efficiently: "French rock'n roll ? this is like British wine".

Music is one of the fields where us French has to give the nod to the Brits. With a few exceptions though... I love Hubert Felix Thi
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 19, 2012, 11:48:06 PM
Wasn't Johnny Hallyday born in Paris? Wiki says so . And it says his father was Belgian and his mother French. I have no idea what Johnny's passport says.

I know that quite a few famous people thought to be French are in fact Belgian. such as Jacques Brel (indeed, I have even gone round the Jacques Brel museum in Brussels).  It#s a bit like all the famous Canadians who are thought of as American.

Also, while a Francophile loves France and the French, doesn't such a person also love French culture? And isn't Johnny Hallyday part of French culture?
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: dmg on October 19, 2012, 11:50:35 PM
Wasn't Johnny Hallyday born in Paris? Wiki says so . And it says his father was Belgian and his mother French. I have no idea what Johnny's passport says.

I know that quite a few famous people thought to be French are in fact Belgian. such as Jacques Brel (indeed, I have even gone round the Jacques Brel museum in Brussels).  It#s a bit like all the famous Canadians who are thought of as American.

Also, while a Francophile loves France and the French, doesn't such a person also love French culture? And isn't Johnny Hallyday part of French culture?

Too late, Pottel's claimed him! ;D
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 20, 2012, 12:00:17 AM
And, herlock, if John Lennon were alive today, he might revise his view of British wine. Some of it is even winning over French wine in international taste tests. It's a pity he might not revise his opinion of French rock'n'roll, however.

But I do have a few Hugues Aufray albums around  (the ones where he covers Dylan songs) and I did see him guest at a Dylan show outside Paris in 1984.

That aside, glossy monthly rock and pop magazines (maybe I should say "Rock & Folk" magazines) were around in France long before they had started here in Britain (where the pop weekly newspaper format predominated). I commented on this strange difference long ago in one of my Dylan news columns. A little after this, the glossy monthlies started over here. Someone told me that the wife of one of the first editors of Q (or whichever) had read my column and passed my comment along. I have no idea if that is true or false.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: herlock on October 20, 2012, 12:05:49 AM
Wasn't Johnny Hallyday born in Paris? Wiki says so . And it says his father was Belgian and his mother French. I have no idea what Johnny's passport says.

I know that quite a few famous people thought to be French are in fact Belgian. such as Jacques Brel (indeed, I have even gone round the Jacques Brel museum in Brussels).  It#s a bit like all the famous Canadians who are thought of as American.

Also, while a Francophile loves France and the French, doesn't such a person also love French culture? And isn't Johnny Hallyday part of French culture?
I love French culture a lot, that's why I don't like Johnny. Massively overrated to me.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: herlock on October 20, 2012, 12:08:40 AM
And, herlock, if John Lennon were alive today, he might revise his view of British wine. Some of it is even winning over French wine in international taste tests. It's a pity he might not revise his opinion of French rock'n'roll, however.

But I do have a few Hugues Aufray albums around  (the ones where he covers Dylan songs) and I did see him guest at a Dylan show outside Paris in 1984.

That aside, glossy monthly rock and pop magazines (maybe I should say "Rock & Folk" magazines) were around in France long before they had started here in Britain (where the pop weekly newspaper format predominated). I commented on this strange difference long ago in one of my Dylan news columns. A little after this, the glossy monthlies started over here. Someone told me that the wife of one of the first editors of Q (or whichever) had read my column and passed my comment along. I have no idea if that is true or false.
Interesting...
Anyway, even though there are a few top quality artists in France, a lot of them underground, how to compete with our best ennemy, the UK, which cannot produce decent food, but produced tons of stellar musicians such as The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Led Zep, DS,... the list is too long.... the UK won the music battle, really, I hate to admit it but I have to.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 20, 2012, 12:09:13 AM
Pottel can have him, dmg.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 20, 2012, 12:27:07 AM
You don't really "hate" to admit it, you embrace it. That's wonderful. Your contributions to AMIT are testament to that.

Food in British restaurants has much improved in recent years. Fine French food, on the few occasions I've indulged, has not much grabbed me. More common-a-garden French restaurant food, in fairly ordinary restaurants that are less than fashionable, has certainly been a cut above their equivalents over here, in my experience.  But, even there, there has been a step up over here in recent times in many restaurants. A less extensive and less adventurous menu than in France, perhaps, but a reasoanbale standard of food..

I think that, despite the recession, we still eat out a lot, lot more than we used to do here.

As for traditional rivalries, yes they still exist but more in fun these days (apart from football, le rugby and so on, perhaps). And, anyway, mrs twm and other Brits on AMIT are Scottish and the "Auld Alliance" prevails up in Scotland.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: herlock on October 20, 2012, 12:33:48 AM
You don't really "hate" to admit it, you embrace it. That's wonderful. Your contributions to AMIT are testament to that.

Food in British restaurants has much improved in recent years. Fine French food, on the few occasions I've indulged, has not much grabbed me. More common-a-garden French restaurant food, in fairly ordinary restaurants that are less than fashionable, has certainly been a cut above their equivalents over here, in my experience.  But, even there, there has been a step up over here in recent times in many restaurants. A less extensive and less adventurous menu than in France, perhaps, but a reasoanbale standard of food..

I think that, despite the recession, we still eat out a lot, lot more than we used to do here.

As for traditional rivalries, yes they still exist but more in fun these days (apart from football, le rugby and so on, perhaps). And, anyway, mrs twm and other Brits on AMIT are Scottish and the "Auld Alliance" prevails up in Scotland.

Yeah, of course, I embrace it :)
We always had a love-hate relationship... Since the 100 years war we are said to be ennemies. We are so close yet so different. And yet, I believe there is a huge respect on both sides. When the French say how much they "hate" the Brits, there is a great part of tease in the statement. And jaleousy maybe... the UK has a culture, as deep and rich as France, albeit very different; and there is this character... during WWII UK did not fall, did not surrender, the bombs were falling on London but the Brits and their queen chose to "never complain, never explain" and resist. The good side of France was operating from London. This is something than cannot be forgotten... De Gaulle and Churchil almost fought physically, but in the end, there was deep and mutual respect.

Oh, and I was not really serious about the food ;)
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 20, 2012, 12:56:42 AM
Mais oui. Bien s
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: Pottel on October 20, 2012, 11:04:06 AM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yjNbcKkNY
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: Pottel on October 20, 2012, 11:04:27 AM
Simply brilliant. Holy grail.....
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: herlock on October 20, 2012, 11:59:09 AM
Simply brilliant. Holy grail.....
Indeed.
Humour is one thing we are more on par - Bristish humorists are excellent, but we've a few outstanding ones. Well, at least in the past.... Inconnus anyone ? ;)
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: Pottel on October 20, 2012, 01:02:28 PM
Simply brilliant. Holy grail.....
Indeed.
Humour is one thing we are more on par - Bristish humorists are excellent, but we've a few outstanding ones. Well, at least in the past.... Inconnus anyone ? ;)
les inconnus, memories from when I was much younger......aaaahh
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: JF on October 20, 2012, 11:19:12 PM
well Johnny is...Johnny ;D

Jimi was his support act at the Olympia in late 66, and Jimmy Page played on one of his records (don't know which one, 'cause I don"t have any Jhonny in my collection ;D

about the "french culture", to me it's  Brassens, Trenet, Montand, Piaf, Ferrat, Ferr
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: vgonis on October 21, 2012, 12:00:30 AM
Oh, I just love these conversations that start from music and end with food and wine!  ;D Even mentions about wars!  I have always thought that the language barrier was the reason I never searched French music, and therefore never found any. But I know that GB must be the biggest music exporter of the world, even bigger than the USA, (and I much prefer the UK music) both in relative and real numbers. I have heard of JH, but never invested time to listen to his music. 
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 21, 2012, 01:32:32 AM
(1) Some of those French singers you mention, jf, are known in Britain - Piaf (of course, of course); Charles Tr
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 21, 2012, 01:54:03 AM
From The Band website:

http://theband.hiof.no/albums/joe_flood_sings_georges_brassens.html
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: vgonis on October 21, 2012, 08:43:16 AM
Replying to your last but one post twm, I should mention that the names  of French speaking-singing artists are the common and easy to find ones, because I have records of most of them and then some like Adamo, Julien Clerc, Gilbert Becaud, Christophe, Art Sullivan, Michel Fugain. But as I said these are only names with a few songs attached. No other connection. And of course the many lighter hit songs like Mesie Cannibal (excuse my French  ;D ) , that I have heard numerous times on the radio. And what about the artists that have sung in almost every language like Demis Roussos, or the newer acts like Air that I really like, but usually have English lyrics-if any.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 21, 2012, 09:50:53 AM
.... or Nana Mouskouri.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: JF on October 21, 2012, 03:11:02 PM
it's LEO Ferr
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 21, 2012, 03:47:34 PM
Of course, it is, jf. And, do you know, when I quickly jotted down the names of French singers that came to my mind, it was "Leo" that I wrote. Why "Jose" popped into my "fingers" rather than the "Leo" that was in my brain, I'll never know. It was the end of a very long day, involving a family gathering I had organised for my mum, and a few hours travelling too, and so on, but that's no excuse. 

My mental picture of Leo Ferrer was of a balding head and a shock of grey-white hair framing the sides and back of his head. He also looked a bit like one of the principals of La Mama Troupe, a theatre group in Greenwich Village in the 1960s, but his name eludes me.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: JF on October 21, 2012, 04:53:53 PM
Sorry to insist, but it's Ferr
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: Pottel on October 21, 2012, 05:24:36 PM
I am very fond of Carla bruni's first cd, really liked it
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 21, 2012, 05:25:07 PM
Sorry. I'm obviously having a very bad day, all in all.

The guy I was thinking of, by the way, was Julian Beck of the Living Theatre in New York City. I hope you can see an image of Julian Beck here. Does he not look a little like Leo Ferr
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: JF on October 21, 2012, 05:49:12 PM
Sorry. I'm obviously having a very bad day, all in all.

The guy I was thinking of, by the way, was Julian Beck of the Living Theatre in New York City. I hope you can see an image of Julian Beck here. Does he not look a little like Leo Ferr
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 21, 2012, 06:05:07 PM
Yes, indeed. It seems it was a style that's been adopted by a number of these creative people.

My mind seems to be doing cartwheels at the moment. One of the plays first done by the Living Theatre was "The Connection", later made into a film with a jazz soundtrack by Jackie McLean. It wasn't a big budget film and I think it had some problems even being shown but I did get to see it in London once, way back when, possibly when at college.

In terms of having difficulty with being shown publicy, I may be getting mixed up with another film, "Dutchman".This had also originally been a play, first put on in this case by another theatrical set-up in Greenwich Village at the time, the Cherry Lane Theatre. The place was a hotbed of artistic endeavour in those days.

Good grief, how did I get here from Johnnee 'alliday?
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: vgonis on October 21, 2012, 09:06:59 PM
.... or Nana Mouskouri.

I know that you probably are aware of it, but Mouskouri did a cover of Why worry and included in the album of the same name!
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: dmg on October 21, 2012, 09:52:00 PM
.... or Nana Mouskouri.

I know that you probably are aware of it, but Mouskouri did a cover of Why worry and included in the album of the same name!

... or Nana Mascara.  Why bother! ;D
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: herlock on October 21, 2012, 09:53:40 PM
.... or Nana Mouskouri.

I know that you probably are aware of it, but Mouskouri did a cover of Why worry and included in the album of the same name!

... or Nana Mascara.  Why bother! ;D
I don't like her at all, but the WW cover is not bad at all actually
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: Banjo99uk on October 21, 2012, 10:48:26 PM
and you cant beat a good croque madame.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: twm on October 22, 2012, 12:58:46 AM
I didn't know Nana M had recorded "Why Worry".

In the summer of 1980, Dylan wrote "Every Grain of Sand" and, soon after, recorded a demo of it, apparently so that he could send it to her and get her to do it - which she did, I understand. The two of them had met during the course of Dylan's 1978 tour. Anyway, the interesting thing to Dylan collectors is that the demo and her version had a slightly different lyric from Dylan's later recording.

She was reasonably successful in Britain in the early 1970s - she had a TV series here for quite a few years, on the back of which she had a fair amount of success in the album charts, too. She's not really my cup of tea, I'm afraid, but somebody must have liked her. Coincidentally, Demis Roussos was successful here in broadly the same sort of time period.  Again, not my cup of tea but there it goes ...

Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: JF on October 22, 2012, 08:11:14 AM
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8vSybrww5c

not my cup of tea too, but I must admit me and my parents wre listening to her on cassette in the car back in the early 80's

In France, I think her most successufl song is "je chante avec toi libert
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: vgonis on October 22, 2012, 10:45:12 AM
Every grain of sand is on the Why worry album, together with Yesterday, (beatles), Sweet surrender (John Denver) Song for Liberty (from Nabucco-Verdi) Love me tender, Missing (Vangelis/Tim Rice) Only Love (V.Cosma/N.Gimbell) and Time in a bottle (Jim Croce). Issued in 1986 by Philips-Phonogram.
At a best of in 1991, she included two songs from this album, WW and `Love me tender.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nana_Mouskouri

She would be a great export for Greece if she issued her records from a Greek company!
I grew up listening to her fantastic voice, but I moved on!Then I returned.
Title: Re: Johnny Hallyday
Post by: ds1984 on October 24, 2012, 06:23:20 PM
Johnny Hallyday is a real star in france, aduled by one half, execrated and mocked by the other half.

The day he will pass away, half of the France will deeply cry, the other half, blinded until that by its extra artisitic side, will think that after all he was not all that bad.

At 69 and after the life he has gotten it is a true miracle that he is still able to sing that loud.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpdDsFcdXq8

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMbSPY-x_Y0