A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Mona Dee on January 12, 2013, 05:50:29 PM
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Hi,
this is my first "new topic" :)
I`m thinking about the name Freuder ...I`ve never heard this name before... is it a first name...or a second family name ? How is it pronounced in England , I mean the "eu" ?
Question after question :hmm , but I
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Hi Mona! I believe that Freuder is a German word which means "joy" and eu is pronounced oi!
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Hi superval,
this was a really fast answer :) . But the German word for joy is "Freude", without the r ... I
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Hi Mona! Here is a family tree provided by suprlinda from Silvertown Blues Forum, which may be helpful:
Michael (Mihaly) Knopfler
m. Maria
Jozef Knopfler
b. about April 24, 1874, Budapest, Hungary
d. New Bedford, Massachusetts
m. Selma Freuder
daughter of Elchanan (Elkan) Freuder and Julie (Jentel) Stern
Elkan b. 1818, Vienna, Austria
d. December 13, 1906 Deutschkreutz, Burganland, Austria
Julie b. February 1, 1836 in Papa, Hungary
d. January 26, 1915, Vienna, Austria
Alfred Knopfler
Erwin Knopfler
b. December 2, 1908, Miskolc, Hungary
d. 1993, London, Greater London, UK
m. Louisa Mary
Children as we know them, and perhaps 2 that died, as well (another David and another Ruth)
Marcus Knopfler
b. Miskolc
Olga Knopfler
It seems that Freuder is a surname from one of the ancestors - maybe that is where Mark's middle name comes from. Perhaps Austrian? ???
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Oh, thanks a lot , this is VERY interesting for me, because I love genealogy (concerning my family).
So he got the name Freuder in memory of an ancestor (his grand-ma), and it was a family-name. But I don`t understand the names Marcus and Olga Knopfler... children of Erwin too ? A first marriage maybe ? Or do I misunderstand the family-tree ?
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I don't understand who Marcus and Olga are either! :hmm
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I found it :
http://www.geni.com/people/Marcus-Knopfler/6000000009145370154
Olga and Marcus are sister and brother of Erwin. Good detectice work, isn
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Thanks Mona - very good detective work! ;D
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It is good work. Thanks. Very interesting.
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Thank you, Mona for teaching me something new today! All these years I have thought that Mark's middle name meant joy, but now I know that it is actually from the family name of one of his ancestors! :)
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Mona - our very own Inspector Derrick! ;D
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Mona - our very own Inspector Derrick! ;D
Who's Inspector Derrick? ???
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Mona - our very own Inspector Derrick! ;D
Who's Inspector Derrick? ???
Who's Inspector Derrick! Oh, Val. :disbelief Only the most famous German detective EVER!!! ::)
;)
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Mona - our very own Inspector Derrick! ;D
Who's Inspector Derrick? ???
Who's Inspector Derrick! Oh, Val. :disbelief Only the most famous German detective EVER!!! ::)
;)
So that's the second new thing I have learned today! Thanks! ;D
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Mona - our very own Inspector Derrick! ;D
Who's Inspector Derrick? ???
Who's Inspector Derrick! Oh, Val. :disbelief Only the most famous German detective EVER!!! ::)
;)
So that's the second new thing I have learned today! Thanks! ;D
I just looked it up too but shh, don't tell anyone. ;) It was apparently a very famous TV show exported to many countries but we didn't get it here in the UK. :(
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:lol I won't tell a soul! ;D
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hmmm, Inspector Derrick....that was long ago... was very famous, yes, I heard it was translated even in chinese, but my 23years-old daughter doesn`t know him. The most famous detectives in Germany are the detectives of the series "Tatort". And they are more charming and good-looking than Derrick ;) ;) ;) Every sunday afternoon at german channel ARD :)
Talking about TV , I think about : Why Ay Man...I read it was the title-melody of an english series about english people in Germany... Anybody here, who watched it ? I hope, that the Germans don`t come out so badly.....
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Haha! Now I do know that one! It was "Auf Wiedersehen Pet"! :)
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Mona - our very own Inspector Derrick! ;D
Who's Inspector Derrick? ???
Who's Inspector Derrick! Oh, Val. :disbelief Only the most famous German detective EVER!!! ::)
;)
So that's the second new thing I have learned today! Thanks! ;D
I just looked it up too but shh, don't tell anyone. ;) It was apparently a very famous TV show exported to many countries but we didn't get it here in the UK. :(
You didn't miss much...
Derrick is still broadcasted here in France, and well...it's hard to not fall asleep while watching it....
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so MK is jewish, was this ever a topic of discussion on here? never thought about it, but seeing all those family first names on geni (isabella is on there too...)
and who is Avrom? he seems the one maintaining it ...
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so MK is jewish, was this ever a topic of discussion on here? never thought about it, but seeing all those family first names on geni (isabella is on there too...)
and who is Avrom? he seems the one maintaining it ...
I actually work with someone who is a little bit younger than MK but commutes from Geordieland to London during the week, he told me that MK grew up in a very jewish area. In fact he was the one who first told me MK was Jewish. That was in 2001. Hes also a fan.
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Just remembered my colleague is from the same village as Rowan Atkinson.
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I live in a very Jewish area and I have many Jewish friends. According to them, the Jewish religion has to pass through the mother, so if the mother is not Jewish the line doesn't continue. Therefore, because MK's mother isn't Jewish, MK isn't either. He does have Jewish blood, though! ;)
Maybe a Jewish member of the forum could enlighten us further? :)
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I don't know if this has been posted before, but if you scroll down the page, there is a picture of the girls' Christening dress and Jewish people, obviously, are not Christened! It's a nice article in any case! :)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/article-2168140/Emotional-Ties-novelist-Kitty-Aldridge.html
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Forgive me if I express surprise. I am not that much of an MK fan but I have "always" known about his Jewish background. Since I became aware of DS and MK, it has never really been in doubt.
My understanding, however, is that, in the Orthodox Judaism, the line passes through the female side not the male line. It is different for the Reform Judaism. In addition, I seem to recall mrs twm saying that Mark's father was something of a radical and not a practicising Jew anyway.
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Yes, twm, I have always known about MK's Jewish background, but have never thought of Mark as being Jewish, probably because of his mother being a non-Jew, also Mark's daughters are even further removed since Kitty is also not a Jew - I'm pretty sure the twins' mother wasn't either.
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MK Jewish! Who nose? ;D. I guess that explains the nose then but like most of you I knew his background, but didn't really bother much about it. I didn't know that it only passed down the female line though; religion is none of my business.
@JF. So you're still watching Derrick then? ;)
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I know this is old but I assume MK was complicent in this exhibition.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13525922
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The jewish background was new to me, but I don`t care about religions, I grew up evangelical (or do you say protestant) but am not religious.
And is it true, is there anybody out there who still watches Derrick ;-) , unbelievable !
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Hi, all. This is my first post on this forum, but I have been reading it since the close of the 'red pages.' I was urged by SuperVal to contribute a bit to this post, since we had discussed it a bit after reading the thread this morning. I also supplied the info concerning Mark's grandparents. I'm sorry it was hard to figure out - I lost my indents to separate generations when I went to post it. I think you all probably figured it out though.
Anyway, here is some information that may be helpful concerning the Knopfler's Jewishness. When I first started delving into Mark's music, I did quite a bit of internet research on him. (I understand there is an official biography, but so far have not run across it.) What I found in some articles on this side of the pond was that his second wife, Lourdes, was probably Jewish. Her father was Alphonse Salamone, a high up executive in the Hilton Hotel chain, and she grew up in their apartment in, I think, the Plaza Hotel in New York City. An exerpt from a publication on line called eNotes in the mid-80s, I think, says:
Knopfler, Mark
Singer, songwriter, guitarist
Knopf ler is married to Lourdes Salamone, the daughter of a Hilton Hotels executive. They divide their life between two residences, in New York's Greenwich Village and London's West End. On the future of Dire Straits, Knopfler told Tucker he has no definite plans: "I don't know what Dire Straits will do after this. Who knows? We might come back a year from now with a choir and a couple of trombone players, but it'll still be Dire Straits." Whatever the future, Knopfler already has envisioned his last days: "I think it's England. I'd like to die with my boots on. I don't see myself dying in some place where they play dominoes. It'll probably be in a little club. I'll be playing guitar, an old walking stick hung up over me amp."
When I looked up Lourdes' father, I found his obituary, listing Lourdes Knopfler as his daughter, so knew I found the correct father. I also found that then New York Mayor Ed Koch, a prominent Jewish figure, had allowed his speeches to be placed on file with the City of New York University. In a memorandum of Koch, he was going to be participating in an awards ceremony by the American Jewish Committee on April 9, 1986, , with Alphonse Salamone, Hilton Hotel executive being part of the group of presenters. I kind of inferred from that that Salamone was probably high up in the New York Jewish community, and Lourdes was probably raised in that faith.
I know that Mark has said they spent half their time in an apartment in New York, where he got the idea for Money For Nothing. From some things I since can't now find (I think they have been removed from the net) I think the twins were raised Jewish, also, and that one, I think it was Joseph, is a practicing Jew.
I also suspect that David may be a practicing Jew, as well, based on the lyrics to a lot of his songs.
I hope this is useful to your discussions. I have noticed that apparently the search criteria on the search engines seem to vary depending on where in the world one is, as when I have tried to research something, I seem to come up with different entries than do people in England.
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Hi suprlinda, welcome to the forum :wave! And thank you for your help and interesting post.
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Indeed welcome and a big thanks for your information.
I got a bit of a shock when I saw your location was Livingston; there's a Livingston only about 20 miles from where I live!
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=polmont+and+livingston&ie=UTF-8&hl=en
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Hi Suprlinda! Welcome to AMIT - it's great to see you here! :) :wave
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Thanks for the greetings! :D dmg, that is kind of funny about towns. We have any number of towns and cities in this country which were originally named after ones in Europe, or people there, but my particular one was named after a railroad executive. The railroad effectively started the town, so although there had been a name given to our spot on the map, it was changed in honor of him.
I'm glad you found the information interesting. Knowing Mark's reticence about his family, it seems to take quite a bit of effort to dig out more than just the basics.
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Thanks for the greetings! :D dmg, that is kind of funny about towns. We have any number of towns and cities in this country which were originally named after ones in Europe, or people there, but my particular one was named after a railroad executive. The railroad effectively started the town, so although there had been a name given to our spot on the map, it was changed in honor of him.
I'm glad you found the information interesting. Knowing Mark's reticence about his family, it seems to take quite a bit of effort to dig out more than just the basics.
Livingston, Scotland is actually a "new town" built in the 60s so you most certainly did not get the name from there. Before the 60s it was just a baron wasteland, home to a few junkies - in fact, not much has changed! ;D
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Quote Superval: