A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: herlock on March 06, 2013, 05:47:54 PM
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Yesterday I walked through a second-hand CD shop and managed to find all the original DS Vertigo swirl CDS ! So far I only had the '96 remasters by Bob Ludwig... but after reading on Steve Hoffman's forum that the remasters were not that great because they dyanamic range had been compressed, and that the original sounded much better, I wanted to give it a try (although so far I had no problem with the remasters... but neither my equimement nor my ears are good references !) I especially read that Making Movies remaster was horrible, so I wanted to try the original.
They sound fantastic, to be honest I am not sure I could tell the difference... but one thing I am shocked by is that the S/T album and Communiqu
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I used to own all of the original "swirl" CD's but when the remasters came out I bought MM and LOG and gave these two away to a friend! Now I wish I had kept them as I do like to have my hands on the original documents, the way they sounded rather than someone's remaster. I know what you mean by the longer versions on the remasters but it's usually only a few seconds. Do you get the whole final solo of Sultans on the remaster?
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Yes, the big advantage of the remasters is that the versions are the longest, even longer than the US/Japan WB originals. On MM for instance, Skateway is 10 seconds longer than both the Vertigo and WB original discs.
If you want the unremastered complete version of sultans, you need to go either for the US/Japan orginal discs of the MFN 1988 compilation (which I own too :) ).
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Herlock - S/T album? :hmm
BTW I have the rare 2-disc Ragpicker's Dream too! :)
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Val, S/T is simply the Self-Titled album (the first one) :)
So you are also the proud owner of this great 2-disc edition of TRD... too bad it is so rare... :( I prefer the 2002 WAM to the 2011 one on the Privateering deluxe edition... much more energetic... and a "quasi-DS" band, save for M. Clark...
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Val, S/T is simply the Self-Titled album (the first one) :)
So you are also the proud owner of this great 2-disc edition of TRD... too bad it is so rare... :( I prefer the 2002 WAM to the 2011 one on the Privateering deluxe edition... much more energetic... and a "quasi-DS" band, save for M. Clark...
Thanks Herlock! :wave
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Val, S/T is simply the Self-Titled album (the first one) :)
So you are also the proud owner of this great 2-disc edition of TRD... too bad it is so rare... :( I prefer the 2002 WAM to the 2011 one on the Privateering deluxe edition... much more energetic... and a "quasi-DS" band, save for M. Clark...
the 2cd one is awesome, especially for the best stp on it, but I far prefer the rehearsal why aye man to the 2002 one, it sounds fresher, different. And yes, I own it too, never knew it was rare ;)
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Val, S/T is simply the Self-Titled album (the first one) :)
So you are also the proud owner of this great 2-disc edition of TRD... too bad it is so rare... :( I prefer the 2002 WAM to the 2011 one on the Privateering deluxe edition... much more energetic... and a "quasi-DS" band, save for M. Clark...
the 2cd one is awesome, especially for the best stp on it, but I far prefer the rehearsal why aye man to the 2002 one, it sounds fresher, different. And yes, I own it too, never knew it was rare ;)
You surprise me, Pottel... I thought you once said that the 2002 WAM was second to none ? Actually I also like the 2011 rehearsal one, especially the violin part in the end is quite nice, but it is sooooo slow compared to the speedy 2002 one... and I love the way they SHOUT "Why Aye man !" rather than quietly sing on all the other versions... I can't understand why they never shouted again... it is a yelling song ! :) This 2002 band was almost like a resurrection of DS, with Sax and all... only Alan was missing... so awsome. I really wish these charity concerts had been released on DVD. They featured an energetic WII as well...
The 2-CD disk might be common to find in Holland, but I can promise you: In France I had been looking for it for years with no success at all. It was a UK/Canada release only, so not that easy to find !
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I bought it in a Fnac in Paris, on Release Day ( coincidence that i was there)
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The 2-CD disk might be common to find in Holland, but I can promise you: In France I had been looking for it for years with no success at all. It was a UK/Canada release only, so not that easy to find !
??? ??? ??? ??? ???
I bought it in a Fnac inLlyon when it was released, and it wasn't rare. It was easily avalaible, for some months I think
And of course, after, it became out of print, so rare.
but in september 2002, there's was no problem to find some.
It has always been the case with many releases : RLRR special edition, GL special edition, SL et KTGC dvd editions....
always the same : special edition avalaible for some weeks or months, and then only the standard edition...
what is special with the ragpicker's dream ?
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Do you get the whole final solo of Sultans on the remaster?
on the original LP, it was fade out during THAT final lick, and the first CD masters use the same masters, with same fade out.
it's only in 88 on the MFN comp, we discovered some additional bars, with a fade out a bit later.
then the 96 remasters used this "new" lenghth version.
if you really want to hear the "whole" final solo without fade out, listen to the guitar hero version :
http://www.mk-guitar.com/2009/12/13/sultans-of-swing-studio-version-vocals-alone-karaoke-track-plus-the-last-seconds-unheard-before/ (http://www.mk-guitar.com/2009/12/13/sultans-of-swing-studio-version-vocals-alone-karaoke-track-plus-the-last-seconds-unheard-before/)
http://www.mk-guitar.com/?s=never+heard+before&x=26&y=5 (http://www.mk-guitar.com/?s=never+heard+before&x=26&y=5)
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I think that the word "rare" is inappropriate (although everything is relative) for the TRD 2-disc: probably it's not easy to find now, after 10 years, in stores, but if you seek online you find as you like. Nevertheless, I understand your satisfaction to have found something you have been looking for a long.
Regarding the "swirls", I own all the versions (WG, USA, Japan) you mentioned and, even if it's pleasant to listen few more seconds, I can tell you that the overall difference is minimal
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Ok, ok, you are all right, I got it wrong. I thought it was rare because it was written somewhere UK/Canada and that I could never find it before. But I have to admit that I have not been looking for it since 2002, but since 2008. That makes a big difference :)
Still, too bad that all these singles/bonus CD/special editions cannot be found after a few months. I was fortunate enough to get the "why aye man" 4-title single (with Speedway live) and the "darling pretty" one; but I could never get the "What it is" and STP ones, with lovely extra tracks (especially Camerado).
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Do you get the whole final solo of Sultans on the remaster?
on the original LP, it was fade out during THAT final lick, and the first CD masters use the same masters, with same fade out.
it's only in 88 on the MFN comp, we discovered some additional bars, with a fade out a bit later.
then the 96 remasters used this "new" lenghth version.
if you really want to hear the "whole" final solo without fade out, listen to the guitar hero version :
http://www.mk-guitar.com/2009/12/13/sultans-of-swing-studio-version-vocals-alone-karaoke-track-plus-the-last-seconds-unheard-before/ (http://www.mk-guitar.com/2009/12/13/sultans-of-swing-studio-version-vocals-alone-karaoke-track-plus-the-last-seconds-unheard-before/)
http://www.mk-guitar.com/?s=never+heard+before&x=26&y=5 (http://www.mk-guitar.com/?s=never+heard+before&x=26&y=5)
Thanks for the info !
But I am a bit surprised with two things:
1/I thought the original LP had the complete SoS version ?
2/I thought the japan/US original WB CDs had the complete version, and that they pre-dated the 1988 MFN compilation ?
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.....I thought it was rare because it was written somewhere UK/Canada.....
no, it has been also released in the rest of Europe
Still, too bad that all these singles/bonus CD/special editions cannot be found after a few months. I was fortunate enough to get the "why aye man" 4-title single (with Speedway live) and the "darling pretty" one; but I could never get the "What it is" and STP ones, with lovely extra tracks (especially Camerado).
I guess the word ebay is unknown to you :)
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I guess the word ebay is unknown to you :)
The word ebay is perfectly known to me, thank you very much. The thing is, I could never find what I wanted at the time I looked for, and above all, call me old-fashion, but I like to buy things in a physical shop :)
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I was only joking of course :)
Unfortunately physical shops are becoming less and less provided: we are now (unfortunately, for my tastes) in the era of liquid music and even cd-singles are disappearing (the last MK cd-singles are promotional CD-R)
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Yes... I talked to the guys in a few second-hand CD shows and they told me that they don't sell singles, for the very simple reason that they don't buy them !! When I told them that some singles are highly sought after, they told me yes, but now the people who wanted them have got them and will not sell them at any price, all those for sale would be crappy ones, so they are not interested !
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however, aside from ebay, on this forum there is a section for sales/purchases: you may try to use that to find what you are looking for :wave
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Do you get the whole final solo of Sultans on the remaster?
on the original LP, it was fade out during THAT final lick, and the first CD masters use the same masters, with same fade out.
it's only in 88 on the MFN comp, we discovered some additional bars, with a fade out a bit later.
then the 96 remasters used this "new" lenghth version.
if you really want to hear the "whole" final solo without fade out, listen to the guitar hero version :
http://www.mk-guitar.com/2009/12/13/sultans-of-swing-studio-version-vocals-alone-karaoke-track-plus-the-last-seconds-unheard-before/ (http://www.mk-guitar.com/2009/12/13/sultans-of-swing-studio-version-vocals-alone-karaoke-track-plus-the-last-seconds-unheard-before/)
http://www.mk-guitar.com/?s=never+heard+before&x=26&y=5 (http://www.mk-guitar.com/?s=never+heard+before&x=26&y=5)
Thanks for the info !
But I am a bit surprised with two things:
1/I thought the original LP had the complete SoS version ?
2/I thought the japan/US original WB CDs had the complete version, and that they pre-dated the 1988 MFN compilation ?
well I'm not sure about the original LP, never heard it, but my cassette bought around august 1988 did'nt have the complete ending, that's why I guess it was the same on the original LP. When I bought the MFN cassette in december 1988, I discovered the "complete" version.
Never heard the japan/US versions, so maybe you're right.
Has someone ever heard the original LP ?
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My Australian LP is an old original, and has the longer solo fade.
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Thanks JF for bringing them to our attention!
There is a peculiar sound flactuation in the last unedited part of SOS from here:
http://www.mk-guitar.com/2009/12/13/sultans-of-swing-studio-version-vocals-alone-karaoke-track-plus-the-last-seconds-unheard-before/
at 5:45, like speeding up for a second.
The "naked" guitar part is just fantastic, exhibiting both lead and rhythm, in a peculiar combination.
The vocals are also great! They sound a bit un-natural on their own, but how well they blend with the guitar though! (This echo...) That little vocal phrases between verses are almost funny! And hearing the breathing on the mic is something else!
Recording is an art!
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All LP versions (I have at least 8-9 from aroung the world, are the long ones fading at around 5:45 (the exact time I noticed the sound speeding up, at the complete version from here: http://www.mk-guitar.com/2009/12/13/sultans-of-swing-studio-version-vocals-alone-karaoke-track-plus-the-last-seconds-unheard-before/ ) .
Really it is better that it faded there, the next lick is rather weak and would be bad to end the song in a low.