A Mark In Time
Previous Tours => 2013 Privateering World Tour => Topic started by: olazabalrok on April 04, 2013, 02:26:34 PM
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"Given the crackdown by Russian authorities on groups including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, I have regretfully decided to cancel my upcoming concerts in Moscow and St. Petersburg in June. I have always loved playing in Russia and have great affection for the country and the people. I hope the current climate will change soon." MK
http://guyfletcher.co.uk/index.php/page/News
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That's a pity for the fans, I hope some of them will be able to travel abroad to visit a concert elsewhere in Europe. But great caracter from MK!
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Question is why putting them on the schedule at all. So this way it seems just as an alibi for poor ticket sales... The situation was the same when the tour dates where announced and before, wasn't it?
It fits however with his more political statements as of late. Remember the Pussy Riot thing and not at least the rhinos..
LE
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It's fine to have beliefs and principles, but he has a responsibility to his fans (and others) to play there ever since the concerts were first advertised. This stance is only going to affect his fans and have no effect whatsoever on the authorities. Pretty poor show IMO. :thumbsdown
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It's fine to have beliefs and principles, but he has a responsibility to his fans (and others) to play there ever since the concerts were first advertised. This stance is only going to affect his fans and have no effect whatsoever on the authorities. Pretty poor show IMO. :thumbsdown
I agree.
It's a very late and surprising decision.
I don't have the feeling that the situation regarding Human Rights and artists has recently changed.
I mean they knew the political situation a couple of months ago when they were planning the tour.
I think the actual reason is the recent Londongrad murders.
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The concert sticks of Moscow and St. Petersburg are still available for sale :disbelief
I agree, late decision :(
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It's fine to have beliefs and principles, but he has a responsibility to his fans (and others) to play there ever since the concerts were first advertised. This stance is only going to affect his fans and have no effect whatsoever on the authorities. Pretty poor show IMO. :thumbsdown
AGREE!!!
:disbelief
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Maybe the Londongrad murders are the so speaking limit for MK. Something must have happened that he planned to do the tour to Russia mid 2012 and now he changed his mind.
Of course it has no effect on authorities but everyone is free to make a statement. And yes I feel sorry for the fans in Russia.
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I feel very sorry for the Russian fans, because a similar thing happened to us recently when a concert we were due to attend in Amsterdam was cancelled a few weeks prior to the show. I am sure the fans will be very disappointed. :(
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Right now, all my thoughts go to Foma and Ustas and all the fans from Russia or who planned to go there. :-[
That's really sad.
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Right now, all my thoughts go to Foma and Ustas and all the fans from Russia or who planned to go there. :-[
That's really sad.
Here, here. :clap
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Me too! :clap
But what I can't understand is why did he leave it until now? He knew all these things were happening before the concert dates were arranged! :hmm I feel very sad! :'(
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Like LE said the situation in Russia hasn't changed in the last months.
Like I said on the Facebook page: Hungary and Romania aren't paramount examples of democratic countries as well.
Should he cancel these dates, too??? And what about some American regions which seem to be stuck in the 19th century? Double standards?
Mark won't change the politics of Putin et al but he can give joy and strength to the people who live there and have no other choice than to hope for better times. That's his job!
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Like LE said the situation in Russia hasn't changed in the last months.
Like I said on the Facebook page: Hungary and Romania aren't paramount examples of democratic countries as well.
Should he cancel these dates, too??? And what about some American regions which seem to be stuck in the 19th century? Double standards?
Mark won't change the politics of Putin et al but he can give joy and strength to the people who live there and have no other choice than to hope for better times. That's his job!
+1000
Russians fans are the ones that are going to pay for it.
Unfair, very, and useless, a lot. To have principles is great, dissapointing the fans that already had tickets and have little to blame is not nice at all.
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I am also very sad for all the disappointed fans in Russia (and others who planned a trip to see MK in Moscow and St. Petersburg).
Although I may not fully understand the reasons why the shows were cancelled, I really can't imagine that MK has done this lightheartedly.
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I guess "heart" has nothing to do with it.. just business and money. MK (and Guy F.) have made clear over the years that fans don't care that much. They are only accepted.
It would have been better for Mark to use the shows and give a statement, live on stage.
I think it is all about bad ticket sales in those places and finding a "proper" way of announcing it. Very poor.
Pissed a little bit about this. And him.
LE
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This has changed lately:
Russian authorities conducted dozens of what they called
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And cancelling the shows, what they achieve?
I can imagine Puttin very worried at home, thinking "wow, Knopfler cancelled his shows, we must do something right now"
The achievement is Russian fans dissapointed with his tickets in their hands :'(
Why they made to deserve it?
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And cancelling the shows, what they achieve?
I can imagine Puttin very worried at home, thinking "wow, Knopfler cancelled his shows, we must do something right now"
The achievement is Russian fans dissapointed with his tickets in their hands :'(
Why they made to deserve it?
The same as when DS was SA banned...
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Did Dire Straits ever cancelled a show in SA because of the ban?
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Did Dire Straits ever cancelled a show in SA because of the ban?
I think MK said at the Mandela gig that they were banned in 1979, but I thought he was referring to their albums.
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I do not know the reason for the cancellations of these shows but have no reason to doubt that given by MK.
As one of the earlier posts indicate, the Russian government (which basically means Putin, it seems to me) has become increasingly restrictive and prescriptive over the years and months and MK has commented on the Pussy Riot affair, so MK's statement would be consistent with the view he expressed earlier.
I feel sorry for the fans in Russia but I understand MK's decision. I do not wish to get involved in a political discussion here but, admittedly as an outsider, it seems to me that Russian society has become less and less open in the Putin era. Perhaps MK had hoped that the public protests we saw on TV last year and earlier this year would herald some kind of reversal of that trend. With Putin once again in the driving seat, that is unlikely to happen. I anticipate increasing authoritarianism in Russia, with even greater emphasis on nationalism.
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I can't really believe it. I am sure that 99% of Russian fans are on the same side of mark. And what he does? He punish them cancelling the shows!
He could make a speech during the concert, he could use an interpreter. He could show a video or a poster with a message or a placard or...or...or...NO!
He cancels the shows! Unbelievable. Instead of using music to spread messages and peace. He makes a revenge. And revenges bring only hate...
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Do you think that they would add two dates filling that gaps? Or maybe they would take a free week?
Russia was the first show after the last at the rah, on June 1st. Lots of days.
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I can't really believe it. I am sure that 99% of Russian fans are on the same side of mark. And what he does? He punish them cancelling the shows!
He could make a speech during the concert, he could use an interpreter. He could show a video or a poster with a message or a placard or...or...or...NO!
In the current environment, it appears to be unsafe to make a speech or send an anti-government statement.
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That's right. Apart from my dissappointment in this case, I was always happy that Mark is not another Bono.
LE
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In the current environment, it appears to be unsafe to make a speech or send an anti-government statement.
"The current environment" is the same as the concerts were scheduled. Nothing has changed since then.
There are many ways to do what I suggested and I am sure mark would find his own, I said "music to spread peace" not to spread "anti government statement"...
Please do not use a comment to go in your direction "anti-governement statement", "Mark another Bono" that is not funny. If my opinion is not clear please write it and I explain my point view better. Thanks.
I think that
1) mark was not informed about the situation until today.
2) There is another reason for this decision as suggested by someone else here on the forum, on facebook etc.
I any case I would never cancel 2 shows with that statement.
Cheers.
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I feel sorry for Russian fans too, but think about it this way:
Cancelling shows is a much more powerful message to authorities than not scheduling the shows at all. This may be seen controversial by fans but with this statement Mark attracts more attention than with making any statement from stage, which by the way would be only heard by fans, and fans are not to blame in this case. With cancelling shows, cruel for the fans as it is, he is heard by more than just fans.
I don't believe money is an issue here. Not for MK. Brave decision, but Russian fans have all my sympathy.
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Thanks for your sympathy folks!
However, I 100 percent agree with Mark, it's a great decision. I think it's really hard to find the reason why he cancelled the shows. Deaths in Londongrad is a very good guess. We don't know a larger half of an iceberg in which Mark has involved during all these years. He can be silent, but he's a wealthy and well-known man any way. I can clearly imagine some big-deal-guys giving a buzz to Mark and saying things like "It would be better, Mark Knopfler, if you cancell your Russian dates". Who knows?
But that really bother me, is our people reaction to this. Comments like "You are an old f**got!", "Nobody cares!", "Go back to your ******* Britan!" proves me that upbringing in our country is completely dead. It's really sad to give the tickets back, but that bothers me, is that I almost hate my own country because these rude, uncultured and caddish russian people. And there are more and more of them... shame on you, Russia!
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I just would like to thank the AMIT members for the kind words to me and all Russian fans.
It's too bad decision by Mark. His step does matter nothing for Russian authorities. But Russian fans were strongly punished and a lot of them feel insulted. And they do not understand why.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/9973237/Mark-Knopfler-cancels-Russian-tour-in-protest-at-crackdown.html
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Thanks superval for posting the Telegraph report, which I would otherwise have missed. Ditto, foma, for repeating some of the responses within Russia.
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Thanks superval for posting the Telegraph report, which I would otherwise have missed. Ditto, foma, for repeating some of the responses within Russia.
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Another disgusting comments among good ones (fortunately, there is enough of it): "Old fool, why the hell are you going into politics?!", "Mediocre country-guitarist have too high an opinion of oneself!", "I no longer respect Mark Knopfler", etc.
BUT! Some of erupean folks got angry and wrote something like "Russians have got what they are deserved!", "It serves you rght!", etc.
Many people have showed their dark sides, it's what, again, really bothers me. Mark are 100% correct. It's a great decision, because organisations, supported by him, got blamed for nothing! It's like they [authorities] would say to Mark
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foma and ustas, thank you so much for your insider-comments ! You have all my sympathy and I hope that the political climate will be better soon !!!
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22038958
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22038958
oh come on BBC, try a better research next time:
"Knopfler released his seventh solo album, Pioneering, last year " :disbelief
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22038958
oh come on BBC, try a better research next time:
"Knopfler released his seventh solo album, Pioneering, last year " :disbelief
Oh my God, I literally rolling on the flour laughing! Thanks for point this out! :D
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22038958
oh come on BBC, try a better research next time:
"Knopfler released his seventh solo album, Pioneering, last year " :disbelief
Oh my God, I literally rolling on the flour laughing! Thanks for point this out! :D
Ha, well spotted, I didnt notice that. What a bunch of muppets.
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Sad for the fans, but Mark is very strong in his views re the reasons he gave. His brother David seems to also hold similar views and they are both strong enough to stand by their views.
It even made news in my little sleepy Hollow:- http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/breaking-news/mark-knopfler-cancels-russian-tour-dates/story-e6frea7u-1226613599512
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I feel sad for the russian fan.
I have not enough knowledge to say if it was the thing to do or not but I am only guessing that for Mark it was the right decision to take.
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However, I 100 percent agree with Mark, it's a great decision. I think it's really hard to find the reason why he cancelled the shows. Deaths in Londongrad is a very good guess. We don't know a larger half of an iceberg in which Mark has involved during all these years. He can be silent, but he's a wealthy and well-known man any way. I can clearly imagine some big-deal-guys giving a buzz to Mark and saying things like "It would be better, Mark Knopfler, if you cancell your Russian dates". Who knows?
Good point, foma, maybe there is some truth in it. You guys in Russia have all my sympathy.
But what bothers me most is the question, in which country he still could play considering his motivation and statement regarding the Russian shows.
<irony>
So maybe there would be only one show in one country: Bhutan, where maximising the people's happiness index is considered more important than the desperate struggle to increase the gross national product like in "our" countries.
</irony>
To cut it short, I think it is a very bad decision and his real reason keeps obscure. I'm deeply disappointed by his move.
It only affects the fans in Russia very badly as the government won't care anyway.
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However, I 100 percent agree with Mark, it's a great decision. I think it's really hard to find the reason why he cancelled the shows. Deaths in Londongrad is a very good guess. We don't know a larger half of an iceberg in which Mark has involved during all these years. He can be silent, but he's a wealthy and well-known man any way. I can clearly imagine some big-deal-guys giving a buzz to Mark and saying things like "It would be better, Mark Knopfler, if you cancell your Russian dates". Who knows?
Good point, foma, maybe there is some truth in it. You guys in Russia have all my sympathy.
But what bothers me most is the question, in which country he still could play considering his motivation and statement regarding the Russian shows.
<irony>
So maybe there would be only one show in one country: Bhutan, where maximising the people's happiness index is considered more important than the desperate struggle to increase the gross national product like in "our" countries.
</irony>
To cut it short, I think it is a very bad decision and his real reason keeps obscure. I'm deeply disappointed by his move.
It only affects the fans in Russia very badly as the government won't care anyway.
It's not really for me to say but it's perhaps more the principle rather than for anything else.
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the reason why i think it is the one and only reason, is that i have never, ever, since the straits days, seen mark being in so many news outlets then this time, he was litterally in every newspaper (did not check tv or radio)
somehow struck me. any plans and possibilities to go to other shows Foma and Ustas?
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the reason why i think it is the one and only reason, is that i have never, ever, since the straits days, seen mark being in so many news outlets then this time, he was litterally in every newspaper (did not check tv or radio)
somehow struck me. any plans and possibilities to go to other shows Foma and Ustas?
Well, it's certainly a lot of free publicity for him and it will no doubt sell a lot of tickets for his remaining shows!
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Another disgusting comments among good ones (fortunately, there is enough of it): "Old fool, why the hell are you going into politics?!", "Mediocre country-guitarist have too high an opinion of oneself!", "I no longer respect Mark Knopfler", etc.
BUT! Some of erupean folks got angry and wrote something like "Russians have got what they are deserved!", "It serves you rght!", etc.
Many people have showed their dark sides, it's what, again, really bothers me. Mark are 100% correct. It's a great decision, because organisations, supported by him, got blamed for nothing! It's like they [authorities] would say to Mark
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I feel for the fans who have made plans to attend the 2 shows in Russia. I would be absolutely upset if it were to happen to me. >:( I respect Mark's decision, but frankly, punishing fans by making political statements makes me wonder how effective it is or will it ever be??? I doubt things will change just because MK or other artists decide not to play in Russia ????
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Over the years, musical boycotts may not have had a profound effect on whatever the politics prevailing in the country subject to the boycott but it isn't just a case of the impact. If performers feel uncomfortable (or more) about performing in that country, then it is their right not to perform there. That refusal may be on an individual basis or as part of an organised campaign. It doesn't matter. It doesn't even matter whether I agree with that stance or not. That is the performer's right, as long as it is a decision made freely.
The difference here is that the shows were contracted, advertised and tickets sold. For MK to have gone back at this stage in the process suggests that it is something about which he feels strongly. It is not a decison that he would take lightly. You guys will know more about his previous career than I do but I seem to recall that he has played concerts in support of Amnesty International in the past. If my recall is accurate, then it would hypocrisy on his part to go ahead with the concerts given the change in that organisation's legal status in Russia and the subsequent pressure applied to it by the authorities there.
Sure, those authorities are hardly likely to change their law just because MK has cancelled a couple of shows (or the way in which they apply that law) . They will hardly be quaking in their boots. They will probably regard MK as a "foreign agent" from now on and, for as long as these policies and practices continue, it is unlikely that MK will again get permission to stage concerts in that country.
I feel sad for the Russian fans about both this cancellation and its likely effect on the prospects for shows in the future but that's the way I see it. An action leads to a reaction and the result is a different stasis. I'd like to think we get a new song out of it but I doubt this will happen.
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twm, I wonder if one could carry it further, too. With Mark's comments over the girls and now this, I have been wondering if he would now be considered a "foreign agent" and also subject to these inspections? I can picture it, at some future time they play a concert in Russia, but then can't leave as they were detained as foreign agents! :smack That could disrupt a tour pretty badly, as well as being a less than pleasant experience for anyone in the band. :thumbsdown
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Well, MK seems to have at least gotten under the skin of Putin et al.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/130405/mark-knopfler-cancels-russia-tour-over-rights-crackdown
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"Let him go to hell... Who does he think he is?" Kobzon told Kommersant FM radio station. "If it was Elton John, that would be another matter."
In some way, there is some truth in it...
LE
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Oh Nikita you will never know..........
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I respect Mark's decision, but frankly, punishing fans by making political statements makes me wonder how effective it is or will it ever be??
It's not a political statement at all.
It's a statement for humanity, justice and consequence.
That's as anti political as can be.
Mark is definitely not a hypocrite. (unlike politicians)
Great decision, Mark!
Don't worry too much about the fans.
Most will forget soon and see other artists...
Fans who lose their respect for him due to that aren't "fans" anyway.
Mark isn't doing "business as usual".
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"Let him go to hell... Who does he think he is?" Kobzon told Kommersant FM radio station. "If it was Elton John, that would be another matter."
In some way, there is some truth in it...
LE
Well...Sir Elton just happens to be playing 2 dates in Russia in December... wouldn't it be fitting if he decided to cancel after a comment like that?
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I have been wondering if he would now be considered a "foreign agent" and also subject to these inspections? I can picture it, at some future time they play a concert in Russia, but then can't leave as they were detained as foreign agents! :smack That could disrupt a tour pretty badly, as well as being a less than pleasant experience for anyone in the band. :thumbsdown
Just to be correct:
Foreign agent is an local non-profit organization receiving money or other aid from outside Russia. Russian parliament approved in 2012 a law very similar to The Foreign Agents Registration Act in U.S. which "requiring that agents representing the interests of foreign powers in a "political or quasi-political capacity" disclose their relationship with the foreign government and information about related activities and finances"
Of course Mark is not "agent" and never will be.
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http://www.aol.co.uk/video/bemused-vladimir-putin-confronted-by-topless-protesters/517736719/
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I have been thinking about it for some days, even though my initial reaction was that nothing's changed in Russia in the last few months, and that he could do greater good by going there.
But now I have two theories:
1. The obvious one, probably too in our faces to consider it. That all the world noticed and talk about it for a whole week already! Raising awareness is the best thing. And he did that simply by cancelling. Now I have been talking with a friend of mine about Putin's popularity in Russia and he's been telling me that he is extremely popular and it is genuine.
2.If "follow the money" is the explanation for many things, I guess that people getting their money back when returning the tickets, will also deprive the state from a considerable amount of VAT and taxes. And believe me, MK loses money with this decision so it was not taken lightly.
So bravo Mark! Maybe he should cancel some more tours for similar reasons in Europe and of course in the UK.
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When I wrote that MK might be regarded as a "foreign agent", I did put those two words in "inverted commas", as I have done again. It was not to suggest that MK might be regarded as a spy.
Yes, maybe Putin is popular in Russia but, as far as I can gather, less so in metropolitan areas, such as Moscow, than in places further from the cities. However, in societies that are less open, popularity can be difficult to judge.
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It's not a political statement at all.
It's a statement for humanity, justice and consequence.
That's as anti political as can be.
Mark is definitely not a hypocrite. (unlike politicians)
Great decision, Mark!
Don't worry too much about the fans.
Most will forget soon and see other artists...
Fans who lose their respect for him due to that aren't "fans" anyway.
Mark isn't doing "business as usual".
:thumbsup :clap Agree 100% moat. Describes Mark and his stand & this situation to a T!!
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I have been thinking about it for some days, even though my initial reaction was that nothing's changed in Russia in the last few months, and that he could do greater good by going there.
But now I have two theories:
1. The obvious one, probably too in our faces to consider it. That all the world noticed and talk about it for a whole week already! Raising awareness is the best thing. And he did that simply by cancelling. Now I have been talking with a friend of mine about Putin's popularity in Russia and he's been telling me that he is extremely popular and it is genuine.
2.If "follow the money" is the explanation for many things, I guess that people getting their money back when returning the tickets, will also deprive the state from a considerable amount of VAT and taxes. And believe me, MK loses money with this decision so it was not taken lightly.
So bravo Mark! Maybe he should cancel some more tours for similar reasons in Europe and of course in the UK.
And come play instead in NA !! :)
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One date went to the Netherlands. And after the cut backs of Social security announced by POTUS, MK might reconsider playing the US. :smack
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One date went to the Netherlands. And after the cut backs of Social security announced by POTUS, MK might reconsider playing the US. :smack
I wish for nothing in this world, really !!!!! ;) There are so many fans here in NA that are so sadddddddd :'( that we don't get to see MK this year !!
And I couldn't even get a ticket to The Stones on May 5th ! :'( :disbelief
Not the price I want to pay $600 some ??????? >:(
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Sweetsurrender, I wish for a world. For a better one, I hope.
You are lucky in a way. Canceling a tour is worse than not announcing one. ;D
About the Rolling stones, it is not my cup of tea, but they are fossils in a way. And even though I am into the 60ies, they have become too perceivable and common to like their new work anymore. 600$? :o Who's going to pay such amounts? :P And does it include meeting with the band for photos and autographs, or just a VIP (Vast Individual Pockets) seat? :P
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vgonis, You 're right about every point you wrote. when you had a chance, go to ebay and just out of curiosity search the Stones ticket for Oakland Oracle Arena May 5th, You would be shocked. Then tell me what you think. :)
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Sweetsurrender they are raving mad! Not only the ones buying but the ones selling as well!
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Everything-Else-/99/i.html?_sac=1&_from=R40&_nkw=rolling+stones&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_okw=&_oexkw=&_adv=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=600&_udhi=&LH_Auction=1&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&LH_SubLocation=1&_fsradio2=%26LH_LocatedIn%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=200
Do they really believe that they will sell a 1400$ ticket? Are they sold out or something? You can buy your own strat with this kind of money and start your own band. ;)
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Sweetsurrender they are raving mad! Not only the ones buying but the ones selling as well!
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Everything-Else-/99/i.html?_sac=1&_from=R40&_nkw=rolling+stones&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_okw=&_oexkw=&_adv=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=600&_udhi=&LH_Auction=1&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&LH_SubLocation=1&_fsradio2=%26LH_LocatedIn%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=200
Do they really believe that they will sell a 1400$ ticket? Are they sold out or something? You can buy your own strat with this kind of money and start your own band. ;)
some of the tickets are $6000 and up and I even saw some are for $10,000 on a different ticket site. You're right again ! it's unbelivably crazy !!! ??? :thumbsdown. Stones's fans have to be either super rich or super dumb . Again, how could they have the audicity to charge that much ?????