A Mark In Time
Previous Tours => 2013 Privateering World Tour => Topic started by: dmg on August 04, 2013, 12:33:22 PM
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So it's maybe too soon to draw conclusions from a tour only finished a few days ago, but someone's going to do it soon and I thought it may as well be someone who'll put a negative, controversial spin on it!
To be fair though, I think Mark has seemed quite inspired with his playing this tour while his singing is just up another level. His setlist varied a little at the start of the tour, even though I still think he made some poor song choices and the energy put into the performances was far better than anything since 2005. Speaking of 2005, the performances - and in particular Mark's playing - of TR during this tour was the best since then. But in spite of all that brilliance, this will always be remembered as the tour when Sultans was dropped and I think that's quite sad.
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I share your views, for once :) I even tend to listen to TR more from 2013 than 2005 these days !!
As for Sultans yes it is sad, but:
1/it does not mean that it was dropped forever,
2/take it as a form of gentle provocation to the fans: I can still play it well, but I won't, as it is time for me to free myself of it !
3/anyway I think live should add something to the studio... That's why I far preferred the "bad-ass" versions of Sutans, with keys, sax ad all. I always wonder why people liked Rockpalast'79 so much - not that it is bad, it was indeed an excellent show, but the versions are so similar to the album ones (even more than the earlier live at the bbc, which managed to add some "anger" to the album), that I might as well listen to DS and Communique in a row - same thing with no crowd noise ! I would far prefer Dortmund'80 to be officially released than Rockpalast - for these bad-ass, faster, keyboardized, experimental versions of Lions, News and DTTW !!
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So it's maybe too soon to draw conclusions from a tour only finished a few days ago, but someone's going to do it soon and I thought it may as well be someone who'll put a negative, controversial spin on it!
To be fair though, I think Mark has seemed quite inspired with his playing this tour while his singing is just up another level. His setlist varied a little at the start of the tour, even though I still think he made some poor song choices and the energy put into the performances was far better than anything since 2005. Speaking of 2005, the performances - and in particular Mark's playing - of TR during this tour was the best since then. But in spite of all that brilliance, this will always be remembered as the tour when Sultans was dropped and I think that's quite sad.
Your conclusions weren't TOO negative, though dmg and I agree with most of them! ;D
I have loved TR on this tour and listen to it a lot, but like you I was sad that Sultans wasn't played more times, though not every time, of course. I was sorry that BTT and YTC weren't played at any of my concerts, because I loved the couple of versions I heard on YT and I'm sorry that the set list became rather static and shorter towards the end of the tour. I'm sure that it's not the end for Sultans, but in future tours we must be prepared not to take it for granted that it will be played!
My personal favourites have been TR, Marbletown (sorry dmg), Father & Son/HFB, CBC, Privateering, Postcards and Going Home (with or without Nigel) and I have liked Sonny on the few occasions it was played.
My favourite concert? At the moment I am addicted to the wonderful radio broadcast from Lucca! I love it and everything was so well played - It's great to be able to enjoy the amazing atmosphere of that evening when many of us were listening together! :D
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Seems some of us are in the same mood - I was also thinking about the tour and tried to rank it within my very own MK scale...
-The concerts I attended were great, and London 27.05. probably came close to the most "surreal" experience from all my concerts so far. There was some magic at that venue and at that place that night (for me), hardly to describe. Could just be because of dead center first row, but that sort of thing is hard to describe anyway. All I know is that the recording doesn't reflect that for me - it would be just another one for me if I only knew the recording. That's the thing about "live experience"... And that should be the most important thing. Multi-concertgoers like Ingrid or Pottel or Knopflerized would probably agree in the fact that there is no need in talking too much about it but experience it live instead. But as it is a forum and the tour is over, why not?
-Set list wise I have some things on my mind.. maybe other thoughts than the most common ones. For me, the shows end after "Speedway". To be honest I cannot stand the way they play TR these days.. it is butchered to death in my opinion. Karaoke modus still there, and Mark's way to pronounce the lyrics (""yeah and they say, we gonna have to reap thats been sowed...") is hard to bear for me, and only because of a maybe great solo I can't say I like a song or not. Brothers, So Far, Our Shangri-La and even this years' PTTE are all songs that I hardly ever listen to because I don't like the 2013 renditions at all..
- So I can judge the set lits in two halfs - first one is expectionally good, the first 4, 5 songs were always the same and I think it is right that way because they fit very well together. Father & Son is the big surprise for me and I love it, even though Mark does everything to destroy the magic with his guitar playing on this one some times. I wonder why nobody ever spoke about how often he plays very false and wrong on this one, whereas John and Mike are really shining here. It sounds as if Mark's guitar on this one is too battered and out of tune to deliever the right performance most of the time... Don't kill me, that's just what I think.
-Hill Farmer's Blues was better in 2010, not one single performance that I heard so far via YouTube and recordings can outshine some of the 2010 versions.
-When the best Kingdom Of Gold for me is the first one from Turin (I think?), I obviously disagree here with Isaac's opinion that this song is getting better and better. For me, Mark never reached the same brilliance of that first 2013 performance, but I do not know all versions. But it might be a hint for him playing it not that much.
-Marbletown is definitely too long - 2010 was more dramatic. Some versions I heard are really great of course (Prague), but it seemed to me like giving Mark's wrists a break for 15 minutes before the big soloing songs Speedway and TR are coming up...
-Biggest issue for me about 2013 concerts in general: The "emotions" are somewhat missing... When I listen to my favourite 2010 versions, WII, STP and PTTE are really giving me goosebumps because Mark (together with Danny) reached really highest emotional touches for me. 2013 Haul Away comes to mind, Romeo & Juliet sometimes, but that's it. Corned Beef City, Gator Blood, I Used To Could are good songs, in fact two of them are my album favourites, but live they are just rhythm and somewhat cool and cold, good to bring some variation to the set but not songs to listen to and wallow in after hundreds of listenings..
-All Sultans versions were not as good as some of the 2010 versions for me - and it is no big deal to drop this one because it cannot get any better obviously. Milan stands out for me, and although I experienced Sultans in Bremen and London as very great live power songs, the recordings somehow dont do it for me. Sounds strange maybe, but true. The way Sultans is played 2013 would mean no great loss for me if skipped forever - same as with TR by the way.
-Ian Thomas is definitely a better drummer than Danny - technically and variationwise. Still I am not 100% convinced whereas Danny's playing never left any doubts for me. Again, Piper 2010 (for example Locarno, or STP from the same show) shows so much empathy with Mark which Ianto never had.
-Biggest joy and biggest surprise for me the rendition of 5:15 A.M. Even in my wildest dreams I would really hever have expected him to play this gem live. If anything else falls apart, this is still the biggest positive thing.
- Mark himself: Photography and filming didn't seem to bother him that much this time which is a sign of a very relaxed and friendly attidude. His voice was good in general (not always THAT good... breathless at times), but better than 2010. He looks better, too, slimmer and just more into it. Very promising for future tours to come.
Very long post: Pottel would proabably say (and in fact, has already) put it in one short sentence as usual "best tour for ages. Period". But as this thread asks for it, I thought some more elaborated thoughts would be fit well.
So conclusion: The live concerts experiences made it clear for me that next time around, I will attend MORE shows than this year's three. But for the pure repertoire virtue, some other shows from former years defended their place as my all-time-favourites, and yes, Locarno 2010 is still among them!
But it will be great to put together a list of gems seldomly played in 2013 maybe one day!
So, where is the darned suncream now... 8)
LE
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LE - regarding TR I understand there is less emotion than Alchemy in the singing, but what makes you think that 2013 would be worse that 2010/2008 an even 2005 ? To me I sounded more energetic and the "karaoke mode", although still here, was quite reduced thanks to Jimbo !!
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Agree DMG, also agree with LE that there was something special on the 27th May, and it doesn't come across on the recording!
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6 shows attended - St Julien was the one worth doing it.
Some nice and enjoyable moments but not as much as it used to be, so very mixed feelings.
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I always enjoy going to the concerts on every tour, but this one was definitely the best ever for me! :thumbsup
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Agree DMG, also agree with LE that there was something special on the 27th May, and it doesn't come across on the recording!
+1000 27th may was magic, both band and audience were on fire
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Falls short of best ever for me, 96 still holds that accolade.
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Right, it cannot top the "Hamburg in the rain experience 1996"... best concert ever for me! But London 2013 follows very close...
LE
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Yes, I will never forget the Golden Heart concert in Leeds! I walked on air for weeks afterwards! RAH 27th May comes very close though! :)
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I enjoyed Glasgow 2001 very much for the best ever. Of course I was too young to recall my DS show of '91 and the Edinburgh '96 shows! ;)
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Just to tell you: I'm in vacation in Avignon, 50 minutes away from Vaison-la-Romaine, and today I made a tribute trip to the antic theatre with my wife, my son and his cousin in memory of this great concert which I did not attend 17 years ago ! :)
LE, if you could answer my question about why TR sucks so much his year compared to previous (2008/2010/2005) years, I would be grateful, I'm very interested in the answer !
Cheers
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I guess I wrote it already in my sermon above - just don't like it. ::)
LE
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I guess I wrote it already in my sermon above - just don't like it. ::)
LE
Ok, but I have just listened to the following versions of TR, among the most praised:
-Alchemy 83
-Vaison 96
-Lyon 05
-London 13
And all of them seem to have the verse you mentioned properly said - Alchemy has more emotion but that's it.
I don't get when the actual "butchering" took place - not obvious to me that it is this year. In fact I find Mark's voice clearer than in 96 (quitting smoking must have helped)...
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I didn't attend any 2013 show, so my opinion is not representative, but :
- I agree about 96 being the "best" solo tour, at least my fav one, and my fav live MK experience (setlist, song arrangements, surprises, interaction with the crowd, my distance to Mark, etc....)
- the last verse in TR si sung in the same was as the studio version only during the LOG tour, so only on Alchemy if we count soundboard versions. he change his way of singing this verse since 91 until now, adn I never liked it. Idem for the middle solo (the "slow one") he play a lick since 96 (6'06-6'09 in the YT link below) that he didn't play in 83 and 92, and I don' like it neither. That's why I will always prefer Alchemy, even if there are nice parts on all other tours.
- Herlock I agree with your thoughts about rockpalast. I never understood why the SH version is called "fantastic" (on Jeroen's site and many more). I far prefer late 79 (amsterdam) or late 80 (boston, emerald city...). But what makes Rockpalast sultans version special, is that Mark played the wrong solo, and so played it again "properly".
And indeed I remember when Pottel made the "best live versions" list on MK news, it appeared that most of the time people choosed the most well known gigs, mainly soundboard and video, which gave Rockpalast79, Basel92, Wembley85, whereas there are versions far far better, but less known, even by the fans....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7yXnMUJqP4
edit : I forgot to add the YT link for that special lick...
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Thanks again JF, very informative !
My point about Rockpalast was not the Rockpalast gig especially but the general feeling that the first 2 DS tours had the songs played very similarly as the albums. So although there were quality gigs I don't listen to the recordings that much. On other words I would have felt privileged to attend one of these gigs physically (but I was 6 years old in 79, so a bit tough) but as far as recordings are concerned I find it more interesting to listen to 80/81 gigs where lots of experiments were made... Lions and News from Dortmund 80 are perfect examples of little unassuming tunes being turned into epic masterpieces !
Wembley 85 may be well known but it is a hell of a show... I love it... My first candidate for an off i release... Second one being Dortmund 80 :)
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That's a very good point JF - we always refer to the best versions using the popular bootlegs, usually soundboard broadcasts, because everybody knows them but often the very best versions are from other bootlegs in worse quality. ::)
Also, we always refer to the wonderful and famous Wembley '85 show, but they did do a run of shows there from 4th - 16th of July! We talk like it was a one-off show but it was the night of the 10th that was actually recorded! ;D I think the 8th was also a very good show, indeed all the available shows were well played.
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. Father & Son is the big surprise for me and I love it, even though Mark does everything to destroy the magic with his guitar playing on this one some times. I wonder why nobody ever spoke about how often he plays very false and wrong on this one, whereas John and Mike are really shining here. It sounds as if Mark's guitar on this one is too battered and out of tune to deliever the right performance most of the time... Don't kill me, that's just what I think.
LE
I agree on that one, I found that bit F&S leading into HFB so "messy", not melodic right if you know what I mean. For instance Je Suis Desol
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SAN was not a full time this year, charing the slot with Haul Away.
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What I also found very strange that was said, I think by GF, Ianto trying to confuse MK in the intro of CBC.
With irregular drumming it was supposed to be hard for MK to start his first note, but isnt it our GF who clickstarts with the prerecorded guitar loop?? MK starts his (slide)notes after his sings the first lines, right?
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If I heard and saw well, Ian was trying to confuse GF with this drumming. And they had a good laugh about it all the time
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Ianto is a fun guy.
But the Paraguay incident at the end of the tour may reveal how demanding it can be for a drummer touring with Mark playing runs of 5 consecutive nights in a six days cycle. And remember Chad leaving after the first leg of 2005 or even Chris Whitten about the OES tour.
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Father & Son is the big surprise for me and I love it, even though Mark does everything to destroy the magic with his guitar playing on this one some times. I wonder why nobody ever spoke about how often he plays very false and wrong on this one, whereas John and Mike are really shining here. It sounds as if Mark's guitar on this one is too battered and out of tune to deliever the right performance most of the time... Don't kill me, that's just what I think.
I don't understand F&S. Single notes of Mark's guitar are sometime very quiet, sometime louder. It's difficult for me to follow the melody, because it is not fluent, but like broken in bits and pieces. I am not sure, if it something wrong here or is it just the way, that Mark wants to play it.
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What I also found very strange that was said, I think by GF, Ianto trying to confuse MK in the intro of CBC.
With irregular drumming it was supposed to be hard for MK to start his first note, but isnt it our GF who clickstarts with the prerecorded guitar loop?? MK starts his (slide)notes after his sings the first lines, right?
If I heard and saw well, Ian was trying to confuse GF with this drumming. And they had a good laugh about it all the time
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as you attended so many shows youre probably right, i must have seen it wrong :-)
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Ianto is a fun guy.
But the Paraguay incident at the end of the tour may reveal how demanding it can be for a drummer touring with Mark playing runs of 5 consecutive nights in a six days cycle. And remember Chad leaving after the first leg of 2005 or even Chris Whitten about the OES tour.
Dont think I ever learned about the reason for Chads leaving of the band :hmm What was it really?
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Ianto is a fun guy.
But the Paraguay incident at the end of the tour may reveal how demanding it can be for a drummer touring with Mark playing runs of 5 consecutive nights in a six days cycle. And remember Chad leaving after the first leg of 2005 or even Chris Whitten about the OES tour.
Dont think I ever learned about the reason for Chads leaving of the band :hmm What was it really?
No-one knows
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I must agree with most that has been said already and can't really add to it.
Bournemouth 1996 was storming but the 27th May at the RAH was unbelievable!! Again it's not captured on the recording but we were all blown away by this concert, the look on each others faces after the show was a picture. When I messaged Guy about the concert - he and the band had agreed that this particular concert had been good!
I have to say that having copied some of the shows to disc (primarily for the car) I have found myself listening to nothing but MK's solo material only. (Mr Pottel will be pleased because I find myself skipping R&J as to be honest I'm not keen on it now!)
It was good also to meet the fellow regulars of AMIT in London too!!
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Knopflerfan - It was great to meet you and mrs knopflerfan too!
I agree with what you all have said about the RAH stick - the atmosphere we experienced at the concert is somewhat missing on the recording. Perhaps this is why I much prefer listening to the Lucca radio broadcast so much - it is as exciting listening to it now as it was on the evening it was broadcast and it is definitely my favourite concert of the ones I have heard, even though I wasn't physically present and there was no SOS either! The lady introducing the concert added to the general excitement too, as did the audience! :D
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Knopflerfan - It was great to meet you and mrs knopflerfan too!
I agree with what you all have said about the RAH stick - the atmosphere we experienced at the concert is somewhat missing on the recording. Perhaps this is why I much prefer listening to the Lucca radio broadcast so much - it is as exciting listening to it now as it was on the evening it was broadcast and it is definitely my favourite concert of the ones I have heard, even though I wasn't physically present and there was no SOS either! The lady introducing the concert added to the general excitement too, as did the audience! :D
Good to have met Mr and Mrs Superval too!!! ;)
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He guys, is this also not the first MK tour he did not play BIA every night?? :think
I was looking at setlists of the GL tour in 2010 and BIA was in the set every night..
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He guys, is this also not the first MK tour he did not play BIA every night?? :think
I was looking at setlists of the GL tour in 2010 and BIA was in the set every night..
It was omitted a few times in 2001 - Guy said they got a bit bored of it. They even played it at different speeds on that tour if I recall to try and keep it interesting. Denver 2001 was played faster than normal for the tour I think. Time to check Guy's diaries! :hmm
Edit: they don't seem to be complete for the STP tour.
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So if you take a look at the average setlist of the last years we can say that of DS songs BIA and SOS are not for sure anymore.
MK solo WAM, STP and DWB are dropped. Although DWB was played a few times whis tour.....
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So if you take a look at the average setlist of the last years we can say that of DS songs BIA and SOS are not for sure anymore.
MK solo WAM, STP and DWB are dropped. Although DWB was played a few times whis tour.....
Speedway at Long Beach..? Surely he won't drop Speedway there!
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I did not say he dropped speedway although also that one was left out a few times this tour!
I'm not so in the venues but i believe he is playing small ones LA and a lot bigger in Long Beach... :think
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Sat through 2 Bob tours, but this year I was finally able to get my ROMEO & JULIET :)