A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: schmonka on September 26, 2013, 01:08:19 AM
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To save me an age of internet trawling and because one of you knowledgeable types is going to know straight away - is there in existance a soundboard recording from the OES Tour which has TOL? I have several audience recordings, some cut off the end of TOL and others where the quality isnt fantastic - but does a perfect recording exist? Seeing as we dont get TOL live anymore i would LOVE to own a soundboard copy of this epic song - just to re-live for old times sake! ;D
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No
:'(
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:-X
Yes Jbaent beat me to it. All SB's from that tour feature TR.
Try Waldo's Birmingham 1991 2nd night. My fave for the "Newcastle Interlude" intro was Milan 2nd night 92.
SL1
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Dutchessy asked for the best sounding version in this thread :
http://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php/topic,3296.0.html (http://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php/topic,3296.0.html)
I sent him the following recordings :
Dublin 25/8/91
Dublin 27/8/91
Birmingham 8/9/91
Wembley 18/9/1991
Dortmund 25/9/91
Paris 3/10/91
Zurich 14/10/91
frankfurt 91
dallas 14/2/92
i can send them to you to, if you want
dmg said :
"LA 08.02.92 is excellent sound and perhaps the best version of the tour IMHO.
East Rutherford and Hamburg 16.07.92 are also bootlegs with very nice sound quality."
and Jeroen said on his site that Wembley 18/9/1991 is a "Very good sounding recording" (but it's not complete...)
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No soundboard recording from 1991/1992, schmonka, sorry
LE
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Or just forget them all and listen to the far superior '85 versions instead - much more powerful, more energy and faster (certainly in the lyrics part anyway).
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"far superior"... not sure about that.
No doubt that '85 had a better and longer intro, the OES tour was not good to intros, see TR and MFN as well.. (but in that case '83 versions were even longer with a nice sax solo by Mel Collins, making the transition with Portobello Belle).
But for the end solo, I belong the the very few here who really love the pensa sound and the "romantic" approach. Munich'81 is my favourite of all times.
So this would be really worth getting on soundboard.... but we don't have. As if Mark already knew at the time that he was going to put the song to sleep (to death ?) and took care that eveytime they played on TV/Radio, as well as the song selection for On the Night, TOL would not be there.
A shame, really.
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"far superior"... not sure about that.
No doubt that '85 had a better and longer intro, the OES tour was not good to intros, see TR and MFN as well.. (but in that case '83 versions were even longer with a nice sax solo by Mel Collins, making the transition with Portobello Belle).
But for the end solo, I belong the the very few here who really love the pensa sound and the "romantic" approach. Munich'81 is my favourite of all times.
So this would be really worth getting on soundboard.... but we don't have. As if Mark already knew at the time that he was going to put the song to sleep (to death ?) and took care that eveytime they played on TV/Radio, as well as the song selection for On the Night, TOL would not be there.
A shame, really.
Personally, I think he was a little shaky with it. There aren't that many versions that are 100% perfectly played. Sure, there are great versions, but listen carefully and there are always bits that don't quite come off and it always sounded a bit of a struggle toward the very end. I have always thought that that's why there isn't a soundboard - he didn't want that on record.
There's even a mistake in the Munich 11.10.91 version I'm afraid. Just before Alan's piano part at the very end of the final solo.
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'85 versions are far superior, especially the ones from the US leg.
OES versions have a very very poor intro. In that kind of songs it's a disaster.
Maybe Mark did it on purpose to have a good reason to kill the song ...
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as i mention all the time, uniondale on 11.10.85 up to the november concerts in Europe are the best ever :-)
also wasn't it played in brussels on 01.10.91 as well, of which a superior zimmy21 recording popped up this year?
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as i mention all the time, uniondale on 11.10.85 up to the november concerts in Europe are the best ever :-)
also wasn't it played in brussels on 01.10.91 as well, of which a superior zimmy21 recording popped up this year?
I agree, but I would take it back to September! I think perhaps Seattle 20.09.85 and SF 13.09.85 are my favourites. Maybe because they both have great sound quality but I think they are very well performed. Helsinki and Berlin are nice too and some of the early versions like Toulouse have some fine different playing in them. Come to think of it, they're all great! ;D
Worst period (in '85 that is) was probably July/August when the playing was a little less inspired maybe, hence the versions were shorter, but I'm being hyper critical here!
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I'm being hyper critical here!
Not at all... that's not your style ;)
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I'm being hyper critical here!
Not at all... that's not your style ;)
Of course not - I always sugar coat things or close my eyes to things I don't want to see! ;)
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'85 versions are far superior, especially the ones from the US leg.
OES versions have a very very poor intro. In that kind of songs it's a disaster.
Maybe Mark did it on purpose to have a good reason to kill the song ...
Maybe, after all, there is a rationale for the unbelievable decision of not releasing Sultans, TOL, TR and TYL on "On the Night".
Maybe mark REALLY thought, in all humility, that newer does not necessarily means better, and that Alchemy versions were better.
After all, on the OES tour:
-Sultans has great guitar and sax solo, but Chris drumming is quite terrible, Terry's was way better, especially on Alchemy.
-TOL is great, but poor intro as already pointed out.
-TR has an out-of-this-world-and-never-done-again-since kind of end solo, but was otherwise ruined by lack of intro, atrocious pedal steel, "Kenny G-style" sax solo, and overall rush feeling.
-TYL is a bit dull compared to the great Alchemy version with Mel and Hal's fantatisc guitar solo.
What do you think ?
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I think Mark never really cared about live-recordings at all. I guess in his eyes, a "live" "recording" is something paradox if you know what I mean. Live is live, in terms of being there, enjoying "the moment" the same on stage and in the audience. To record something that exists for creating "the moment", or as he called it once, "a shared musical experience", is just not right. For monetary reasons, maybe documenting the status of a group, yes. For that, we have aLCHEMY, played by the Rock'n Roll Orchestra. And as the market is demanding (if it is), and as Paul Crockford said so, and because it is so easy these days, and for having material for new band members to brief them, they do recordings of every show today.
So I don't think he never gives so much thought about live versions or if they are good enough for release or not, at least not as much as WE do !! Pity, but maybe true. ("It has to fit on a CD if a double CD is too risky, so just get out the longer tracks. Ah, we had Sultans on Alchemy, hadn't we (can't remember)... ??") The good side of this is, he really is a "live" musician in the best sense of the word. It means really something to him, not just promoting a new product, playing live is really important for him it seems. Thank god!
I think the mp3-sticks and/or downloads are a standard now, also for future tours. So we will have them on a continuous base, which is more than I dreamed about let's say, 15 years ago.
LE
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:) Yes the 85 versions were great. Agree with Pottel both Uniondale 85 & zimmy21's recordings were brilliant versions.
Here they are:-
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ommcqt5lxsbpzy9/1991.10.01%2C%20Vorst%20National%2C%20Tunnel%20of%20Love%20-%20Zimmy21%20rec.flac
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zlyv542p36gxbs0/1985.10.11%2C%20Uniondale%2C%20NY%20-%20Tunnel%20Of%20Love.flac
:wave
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:) Yes the 85 versions were great. Agree with Pottel both Uniondale 85 & zimmy21's recordings were brilliant versions.
Here they are:-
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ommcqt5lxsbpzy9/1991.10.01%2C%20Vorst%20National%2C%20Tunnel%20of%20Love%20-%20Zimmy21%20rec.flac
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zlyv542p36gxbs0/1985.10.11%2C%20Uniondale%2C%20NY%20-%20Tunnel%20Of%20Love.flac
:wave
Isn't uniondale the one with over 20 some minutes. It's the ultimate best for me. :)
SL, thanks for the link. I'll listen again. it's been a while.
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I think schmonka wanted a TOL fro OES since it was the most recent version. I guess after all the lengthy discussions here, everybody knows which TOL versions are considered best. Thanks SL for the links!
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I think schmonka wanted a TOL fro OES since it was the most recent version. I guess after all the lengthy discussions here, everybody knows which TOL versions are considered best. Thanks SL for the links!
Well as i started out wanting the last version from OES, but as some of the 85 versions have been heavily reported as fantastic versions - is there any way i can get my hands on a copy of Uniondale perhaps??
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I think schmonka wanted a TOL fro OES since it was the most recent version. I guess after all the lengthy discussions here, everybody knows which TOL versions are considered best. Thanks SL for the links!
Well as i started out wanting the last version from OES, but as some of the 85 versions have been heavily reported as fantastic versions - is there any way i can get my hands on a copy of Uniondale perhaps??
Look at the top of the page, SL1 has given two links, for the track you are looking for!
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I think schmonka wanted a TOL fro OES since it was the most recent version. I guess after all the lengthy discussions here, everybody knows which TOL versions are considered best. Thanks SL for the links!
Well as i started out wanting the last version from OES, but as some of the 85 versions have been heavily reported as fantastic versions - is there any way i can get my hands on a copy of Uniondale perhaps??
Look at the top of the page, SL1 has given two links, for the track you are looking for!
...Cheers - but as the whole concert has been highly recommended - i was wondering about the whole thing?? ;)
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Log in the tracker above at links and search for uniondale. It is up and running! :wave
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After years of associating the name pottel with Uniondale ;D I finally gave it a listen thanks to this thread - it's a great version, and boy, Sanborn really
is a great sax player. Much more profile and format than for example what I heard from Nigel Hitchcock (but that was only that from the MK tour).
Long versions are not automatically always the best ones, but this Tunnel is really cool. Some cool and never heard licks in it me thinks. But still, I prefer
the TOL versions of 1991.. love them. It's a matter of taste. :wave Really a pity not to have a soundboard of the 1991 versions. I listen very much to the Zurich 91 version which was also really great. Paul Franklin did a lot to make it really sound great. Especially the band introduction part has some nice music and effects.
LE
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After years of associating the name pottel with Uniondale ;D I finally gave it a listen thanks to this thread - it's a great version, and boy, Sanborn really
is a great sax player. Much more profile and format than for example what I heard from Nigel Hitchcock (but that was only that from the MK tour).
Long versions are not automatically always the best ones, but this Tunnel is really cool. Some cool and never heard licks in it me thinks. But still, I prefer
the TOL versions of 1991.. love them. It's a matter of taste. :wave Really a pity not to have a soundboard of the 1991 versions. I listen very much to the Zurich 91 version which was also really great. Paul Franklin did a lot to make it really sound great. Especially the band introduction part has some nice music and effects.
LE
Sanborn also played in the version from New York 12.10.85.
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Well, this has not got much to do with the opening post, but I always liked the little riff MK played halfway TOL.
In this clip its played at 6'11 but I cant recall where its from.... Bonanza?? :think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Vr6XxGvPo
Also I was wondering what MK sings later on in the song at 5'57 something like "And I wonder, where she's gonna stay"... etc etc :hmm
(and that certain riff is also present at 6'26)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FmByQHVjhM
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first riff : ghost ryders in the sky tehre is a version by Johnny cash, don't know if it's the original or not
2nd riff (sung) : runaway by Del shannon
these are music lines from the 60ies, reference to Mark's youth, at the spanish city
both were already in 85 versions. and the 85 version have far more muiscal quotes than 91 ones :
- riders on the storm (doors)
- in the name of love (supremes)
- don't let me misunderstood (animals)
....
I love the uniondale version, especially when Mark is saying to Jack : "no no don't play reggae !..."
of course the longest is not always the best, but this time, I think it's the case
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Not Bonanza but The Shadows' Riders In the Sky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vft1hF-5p-w
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first riff : ghost ryders in the sky tehre is a version by Johnny cash, don't know if it's the original or not
2nd riff (sung) : runaway by Del shannon
these are music lines from the 60ies, reference to Mark's youth, at the spanish city
both were already in 85 versions. and the 85 version have far more muiscal quotes than 91 ones :
- riders on the storm (doors)
- in the name of love (supremes)
- don't let me misunderstood (animals)
....
I love the uniondale version, especially when Mark is saying to Jack : "no no don't play reggae !..."
of course the longest is not always the best, but this time, I think it's the case
I think Burl Ives did the original Ghost Riders In the Sky and that's the "yippee-aye-ay" tune he played sometimes.
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Thnx a lot DMG and JF for helping me out.
Youtubing at the moment.....
:wave :wave :wave
:worship. (Couldt find the emoticon)....
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Indeed I was asking myself since 1991 what riff that Riders In The Sky one was. Now I know. Thanks very much! :lol I never had the idea to ask someone here though! :disbelief
LE
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You're very welcome LE
:P
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Don't be so shy! It was my late Grandmother who noticed it and told me many years ago.
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I ended up spending a good quality time listening to TOL on YT last night. I love them all ! I think it's Mark's best song and best guitar solo ever. :)
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I ended up spending a good quality time listening to TOL on YT last night. I love them all ! I think it's Mark's best song and best guitar solo ever. :)
Co-incidently, it was on as background music when I was in Jessops this afternoon. I remarked to the guy serving me that it was my favourite song and he said that they were listening to DS the other day and reminiscing.
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I ended up spending a good quality time listening to TOL on YT last night. I love them all ! I think it's Mark's best song and best guitar solo ever. :)
Co-incidently, it was on as background music when I was in Jessops this afternoon. I remarked to the guy serving me that it was my favourite song and he said that they were listening to DS the other day and reminiscing.
Also co-incidently, I was walking by a local coffee shop this morning when I heard SOS blaring on the radio. So, I did what a good Knopler's fan would do. I went in to listen to the rest of the song. It made my day ! :) Never ever heard TOL on radio here.
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...Also co-incidently, I was walking by a local coffee shop this morning when I heard SOS blaring on the radio. So, I did what a good Knopler's fan would do. I went in to listen to the rest of the song. It made my day ! :) Never ever heard TOL on radio here.
Ugh! Sweet... we live in a DS/MK desert. :disbelief
:'(
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I ended up spending a good quality time listening to TOL on YT last night. I love them all ! I think it's Mark's best song and best guitar solo ever. :)
Co-incidently, it was on as background music when I was in Jessops this afternoon. I remarked to the guy serving me that it was my favourite song and he said that they were listening to DS the other day and reminiscing.
Also co-incidently, I was walking by a local coffee shop this morning when I heard SOS blaring on the radio. So, I did what a good Knopler's fan would do. I went in to listen to the rest of the song. It made my day ! :) Never ever heard TOL on radio here.
It wasn't the radio but the shop's own playlist. Alas, I've never heard TOL on the radio here either!
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Amazingly I heard Telegraph Road once on the radio... In a pub about 12 years ago... was awesome :)
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Somewhat around 1986 I heard the complete TOL album version on the radio - and after a few seconds silence, Romeo & Juliet began - both songs were
played right one after the other, around lunchtime, I was sitting in a car, 15 years old, and had goosebumps over goosebumps because from radio, some songs sound better than others, and Dire Straits always sounded very great through the radio! :D The other people in the car were not aware of that spectacular moment and kept on talking and talking...
LE
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Ken Bruce played TOL in full on BBC Radio 2 the other week.
A colleague and I were in the car and about to go into a meeting but I made him wait until the solo was finished.
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I've heard Tol on the radio many times. You must all be listening to the wrong stations..
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A colleague and I were in the car and about to go into a meeting but I made him wait until the solo was finished.
I'm pretty sure that Mark could write a song about this situation :)
It's strange, most heard song by me in Russia is Ticket To Heaven.
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I've heard Tol on the radio many times. You must all be listening to the wrong stations..
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
The most heard songs on radio here is of course SOS and walk of life. One time I heard Ride Across the River and What it is at grocery stores.
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Somewhat around 1986 I heard the complete TOL album version on the radio - and after a few seconds silence, Romeo & Juliet began - both songs were
played right one after the other, around lunchtime, I was sitting in a car, 15 years old, and had goosebumps over goosebumps because from radio, some songs sound better than others, and Dire Straits always sounded very great through the radio! :D
LE
And maybe DS music sound even better on radio because they are actually our songs! They don't belong to anyone else.
It touches us in a way we can't even explain, so we don't expect that anyone else may undersand.
When I accidentaly listen to any MK/DS song, it's almost the same feeling as it is running into, by accident, someone I'm acquainted with.
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Somewhat around 1986 I heard the complete TOL album version on the radio - and after a few seconds silence, Romeo & Juliet began - both songs were
played right one after the other, around lunchtime, I was sitting in a car, 15 years old, and had goosebumps over goosebumps because from radio, some songs sound better than others, and Dire Straits always sounded very great through the radio! :D
LE
And maybe DS music sound even better on radio because they are actually our songs! They don't belong to anyone else.
It touches us in a way we can't even explain, so we don't expect that anyone else may undersand.
When I accidentaly listen to any MK/DS song, it's almost the same feeling as it is running into, by accident, someone I'm acquainted with.
nababo,
You put it really well. It's soooo true in some mysterious ways. Only us here seem to understand the impact Mark's music has in our lives.
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I ended up spending a good quality time listening to TOL on YT last night. I love them all ! I think it's Mark's best song and best guitar solo ever. :)
Co-incidently, it was on as background music when I was in Jessops this afternoon. I remarked to the guy serving me that it was my favourite song and he said that they were listening to DS the other day and reminiscing.
Also co-incidently, I was walking by a local coffee shop this morning when I heard SOS blaring on the radio. So, I did what a good Knopler's fan would do. I went in to listen to the rest of the song. It made my day ! :) Never ever heard TOL on radio here.
It wasn't the radio but the shop's own playlist. Alas, I've never heard TOL on the radio here either!
Never? In the Netherlands there was a radio station who played it ocassionally. And there is every year de top 2000 at an other station. Its in there too :) no all time hitlist in other countries when nearing 31-12?
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In the store where I work they play MK/DS often. Last week I heard the last laugh, what it is, sailing, sultans. In 1 week! Any amiters working at ahold?;D I couldn't stop singing along and having a big smile on my face, every time I hear Knopfler!
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In the store where I work they play MK/DS often. Last week I heard the last laugh, what it is, sailing, sultans. In 1 week! Any amiters working at ahold?;D I couldn't stop singing along and having a big smile on my face, every time I hear Knopfler!
Lucky you. Where I live, it's rare to listen even to SoS, BiA, WoL, MfN, YLT, SFA, WW, which are the songs made the greatest impact. I guess the only solo song I've ever listened to in radios was Darling Pretty.
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I always thought that radio playlists (except for specila programms) were based only with singles.
TOL was released as a single in many country, so it's not surprising that it has been aired on radios, but the last laugh ?
AFAIK, this song was never released as a single. So it means that sometimes radio broadcast tracks from original albums ?
I believe it's not very usual, but I might be wrong
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If I remember correctly, (I think I have it) The last laugh was issued as a 7'' single with wide center for juke boxes. Also another song from STP was issued, but I have to look
http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=179342
Also some promo CD singles from all albums and two from Kill to get crimson.
It is not unusual to hear ONLY LP tracks. Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin and many more never issued singles in their home land, but of course they were wildly popular and Stairway to heaven is the most played song in the US radio without being issued as a single even there .
AFAIK? which one is this? Stuck mind>
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Ah ok thanks for the info vgonis
I know that stairway is the most played song in the US, but I thought it had been released as a single ?
Same for Floyd : I believe that most of their known songs were released as singles : money, us and them, Time, another brick..., wish you were here, etc... No ?
AFAIK is for "as far as I know " sorry for being too lazy to write the whole thing ;D
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Led Zeppelin's contract prohibited any UK singles, but atlantic US issued some, before Peter Grant intervened. Stairway was never issued as a single, at least not back then.
Pink Floyd just didn't care to promote single songs, since they thought that they were working on concept albums and seperating them spoilt the overall effect. However on albums such as dark side, the wall and final cut the extrordinary success led to many seperate releases on different countries, some of them are quite collectible. Perhaps the only single they released on purpose was another brock 2, due to their being in dire straits. ;-)
Of course Rogerless floyd issued many singles in order to overcome the issue of Roger.
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This is a bit off topic but another great live song from OES tour was of course Planet of New Orleans. I remember reading years ago on the TR mailing list that there existed a video clip where was a part of the song recorded at the tour rehearsals and the audio was soundboard. The video was a mix of the band playing and some striptease ;D
Anyway, I forgot about it and today I came across it on the Youtube! Here it is (NSFW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnSY_zQjXek
Would be great to have the whole song but it's better than nothing I guess.
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Great version but the video is rated X!
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It is a great version...but something tells me that if you asked her..she wouldn't know who Mark Knopfler was :think
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I got that as a bonus in a trade donkeys years ago! Nice to watch, I mean listen to it again! :smack
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Umm.. Anyone know the story on that clip? Was the band in on it, as a promo or something?
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This is a bit off topic but another great live song from OES tour was of course Planet of New Orleans. I remember reading years ago on the TR mailing list that there existed a video clip where was a part of the song recorded at the tour rehearsals and the audio was soundboard. The video was a mix of the band playing and some striptease ;D
Anyway, I forgot about it and today I came across it on the Youtube! Here it is (NSFW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnSY_zQjXek
Would be great to have the whole song but it's better than nothing I guess.
Wov great stuff, thanks ! I did not know that a soundboard version of pono existed ! With some nice hot stuff ! :D
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Maybe a late night TV show, in the nineties? Combining two of the producer's greatest loves...
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That's just bonkers, would love to know how that came about
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Maybe a late night TV show, in the nineties? Combining two of the producer's greatest loves...
DS 'n tits!
I wonder what the band would think of it?