A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Ingo on January 10, 2014, 05:28:43 PM
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Does anyone remember the name of the song where the Sultans of Swing chorus-like riff came from (the part after "way on downsouth, London town")?
There was a discussion about it on the old Telegraph Road mailing list.
All I remember is the title was something with "million" (or only "Million")
The artist I think was John something, maybe John Marshal or similar
Year: 1975 (+/- one year)
...
It seems million + John + Marshal are the the worst-case keywords for a successful google search :(
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Robert Marshall? See other topic
:lol
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No, that's the guy who claimed he wrote some of the lyrics (sounds ridiculous to me...)
I even listened to that song from 1975, indeed the riff was coming from it, but do not find it or at least the name anymore
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"Million" by Paul Kantner.
There's something but nothing as obvious as Bird of paradise/BIA. :think
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Thanks, tunnel85, both are right, and it is very astonishing! Never heard about those tracks and the certain part is really identical..
DOT
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WOW! It's even in the same key!
Well, 'Good artists copy, great artists steal' :lol
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ah yes ,indeed,we can hear the similarity between the 2 riffs.
never heard it before
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How about the Amazing Rhythm Aces, "The End Is Not In Sight" (1976). Surely sounds like a great inspiration for MK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0_h_bYe8I
I can hear Down To The Waterline and even some Sultans riffs in there! It could be coincidence but the infamous book by Myles Palmer quotes Dave Pask who claims that Mark was listening a lot of this stuff at that time. This and J.J. Cale.
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Any help with a link to the Katner song? YouTube not helping me.
Fascinating subject. An early guitar magazine described Knopfler as a guitar god who came out of nowhere fully formed.. the truth is always more interesting.
I'd love to have heard Knop playing his style over London cover bands during the mid 70s, must've been quite something if anyone appreciated what they were hearing.
Even Mr David Knopfler says they knew ,"Marks facility on guitar was (paraphrased here) special..."
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How about the Amazing Rhythm Aces, "The End Is Not In Sight" (1976). Surely sounds like a great inspiration for MK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0_h_bYe8I
I can hear Down To The Waterline and even some Sultans riffs in there! It could be coincidence but the infamous book by Myles Palmer quotes Dave Pask who claims that Mark was listening a lot of this stuff at that time. This and J.J. Cale.
I can certainly detect a lot of MK in there, but what struck me most was the similarity to J. J. Cale, especially "City Girls".
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Any help with a link to the Katner song? YouTube not helping me.
Only this, but I don't hear anything like an SOS riff, except maybe at the very beginning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ldvvhs-1hE
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Val you are spot on about City girls! I had the same thought! But I guess the opening lines also reminded me of Down to the waterline. I will have to listen to it repeatedly to make up my mind.
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What song do you think MK was inspired to write after hearing this one :hmm 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR_0nbEzVdY
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Roy Bittan played on Tunnel of Love, and that is why the intro sounds similar/familiar. Jimmy Iovine was the common producer and that might explain the sound as well. But every other compositional similarities are in the intro and that wasn't MK or BS. It was from Carousel by Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein II. Nice catch though! To me it reminded me more of an older song BS has composed, "Sandy".
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R & J, but as vgonis has said, Roy Bittan from The E-Street Band played keyboards on MM and obviously added his own style to the riff.
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Any help with a link to the Katner song? YouTube not helping me.
Only this, but I don't hear anything like an SOS riff, except maybe at the very beginning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ldvvhs-1hE
Val, I am not able to watch that video in Germany, but I managed to get a glimpse of the song from this:
http://www.amazon.com/Million/dp/B001D72XOA
if you listen to it, especially when the vocals stop and the piano part starts, I would go so far and say that this is some real plagiarism by our great man!! :o :o
DOT
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So Dire Straits signature tune is just another Miss You Blues. :'(
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Maybe that pub band played this song and it was remembered by Mark half-consiously... :) The songs itself have nothing in common... but it is really perplexing..
Dear Old Thing
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Maybe that pub band played this song and it was remembered by Mark half-consiously... :) The songs itself have nothing in common... but it is really perplexing..
Dear Old Thing
That's how Mark explained how Bonnie Banks... found it's way into WII, isn't it.
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Dear Old Thing (will I ever get used to it?) My clip is the same as yours, but if I were to hear this song without having to compare it to the SOS riff I would never have recognised the similarity in a "Million" years! :)
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Well, I have that record and although I like it, it never reminded me of DS. If you break it down, pin point and listen again you can most always manage to get something out of it. I haven't, though. >:(
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......however, the piano part does remind me of something that I know very well, but can't bring it to mind right now. I'll keep thinking! ;)
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I've remembered, but it's a very small similarity to "Tangled Up In Blue" in the piano part.
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Yes, that's the one, thank you Tunnel85
Have not heard it for some 15 years, and how wrong I was: Paul instead of John, 1971 instead of 75, only the title was right ;)
I was not to say that SoS is a plagiat or something was stolen, I guess - as some others already said - this is just the way songwriting works: you soak up things from all sides and possibly years later something comes out of your head, maybe even yourself have no idea what came from where, like the Bonnie Banks thing in wii..
@Foma: not the same key but almost (C#m instead of Dm)
While talking about similarities: Randy Newman's bad news from home (Land of Dream album) / Iron Hand (melody and chord structure)
In this case Mark even stated how much he liked this song, he even produced it
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Years ago we used to run SOS into Fleetwood mac 'you can go your own way', again the chorus has the identical chord structure. But with western musical scales, and a limited set of notes people are bound to 'copy' one and other either intentionally or not.
Another one I noticed is One world off BIA, its Dylan's Blind Willie Mctell to a note!
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Great work ladies and gents! I have a knack for similar songs, because I find out about other great songs and artists! As for the similarities, I guess lifting a pattern is fine if you create a much better song!
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As for the similarities, I guess lifting a pattern is fine if you create a much better song!
agree. My sweet lord is far better than he's so fine IMHO
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JF, if it was a flop they wouldn't have raised claims...They wouldn't even know about it. It was a success and they went after it. Great song indeed.
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It's Similar but certainly not the same....
Same could be said for thousands of songs, Every chord and their structures have been used a million times. It's unavoidable.
I know which is the better song out of Sultans and Million though lol
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Hi there
I'm ressurecting this post cause I was listening to Rosanne Cash's "Oh yes I can" and the intro is way too similar to Sultans of Swing's intro. Anyone else noticed the same?
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There is a resemblance there, but it is more of a nod to a song, rather than a copy cat! The guitar sound is not very close. Anyway, while I was searching the net I stumbled across this page, from Charlie Gillett. See at the end of his first reply! http://www.charliegillett.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2037
I have many records by the amazing rhythm aces and I always liked their guitar sound, probably because it reminded me of DS.
http://youtu.be/et6YPgxUdAo
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There is a resemblance there, but it is more of a nod to a song, rather than a copy cat! The guitar sound is not very close. Anyway, while I was searching the net I stumbled across this page, from Charlie Gillett. See at the end of his first reply! http://www.charliegillett.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2037
I have many records by the amazing rhythm aces and I always liked their guitar sound, probably because it reminded me of DS.
http://youtu.be/et6YPgxUdAo
yes indeed :
http://www.mk-guitar.com/2008/08/25/recommended-listening-amazing-rhythm-aces-the-end-is-not-in-sight/ (http://www.mk-guitar.com/2008/08/25/recommended-listening-amazing-rhythm-aces-the-end-is-not-in-sight/)
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And do the first notes remind you anything ? ;D
RwqX1LuRg0E
The very first notes - Behind With The Rent? :think
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end of TR intro ... (National + piano)
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It is all about inspiration.
Copy and and make it better is base for inventing.
Elvis, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones did that millions of times.
This was the game between John and Paul, when one played his song to the other if he would recognize where the song came of it was said "song not good enough"...
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It is all about inspiration.
Copy and and make it better is base for inventing.
Elvis, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones did that millions of times.
This was the game between John and Paul, when one played his song to the other if he would recognize where the song came of it was said "song not good enough"...
I don't get the comparison; Mark is better than The Beatles.
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It is all about inspiration.
Copy and and make it better is base for inventing.
Elvis, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones did that millions of times.
This was the game between John and Paul, when one played his song to the other if he would recognize where the song came of it was said "song not good enough"...
I don't get the comparison; Mark is better than The Beatles.
Excuse me but The Beatles ARE history.
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Yes, MK made sure they are history! ;D dmg was joking. Obviously! :wave (But I guess it is OK comparing to Stones or Elvis ;) )
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ds1984 coolest avatar in ages ;D
LE
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ds1984 coolest avatar in ages ;D
LE
I'm a froggy after all...
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It is all about inspiration.
Copy and and make it better is base for inventing.
Elvis, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones did that millions of times.
This was the game between John and Paul, when one played his song to the other if he would recognize where the song came of it was said "song not good enough"...
I don't get the comparison; Mark is better than The Beatles.
wrong, mark is more famous then jesus (or what did John say back in the day??)
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It is all about inspiration.
Copy and and make it better is base for inventing.
Elvis, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones did that millions of times.
This was the game between John and Paul, when one played his song to the other if he would recognize where the song came of it was said "song not good enough"...
I don't get the comparison; Mark is better than The Beatles.
wrong, mark is more famous then jesus (or what did John say back in the day??)
John who?
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John the Baptist. And by the way he seems to be correct. Very few people spend time for Jesus. Which is a shame. His words are not a cliche like most rock songs.
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It is all about inspiration.
Copy and and make it better is base for inventing.
Elvis, The Beatles and The Rolling Stones did that millions of times.
This was the game between John and Paul, when one played his song to the other if he would recognize where the song came of it was said "song not good enough"...
I don't get the comparison; Mark is better than The Beatles.
wrong, mark is more famous then jesus (or what did John say back in the day??)
John who?
Please take care of spelling
John Woo!
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Thist thread made me look for Snowy White stuff. IMO, he is a good guitar player, indeed, but not so good in writing songs.
I'm still astonished by the similarities between BiA and "Bird of paradise", but I've listened to another of his songs which remotely reminded me of "Love over gold". It's an instrumental called "Softly", from 2002's restless. It was just some licks, though, not a case of twin songs like the above mentioned.
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Oh, one more thing, the arrangment a 2004 studio version of "Bird of paradise" is totally different from the original. There's just a residual echo of BiA in it.