A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Kidd on February 27, 2014, 06:59:18 AM
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as I know, there exists many versions of DS' cd, e.g. the LOG album, i've seen 4 different kinds of west germany versions, and i believe they were all made in 1984. The target CD ?the blue swirl with blue text ?the blue swirl with black text and the orange swirl , they may share the identical mastering, my question is which one came first? and which last? thx ;D
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I think the blue swirl is the first one to come out from West Germany, in 1984. Then the red swirl. And the target ones later in the USA.
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I have no idea but, if you look in the central area of a CD, you will see some words/numbers/letters in a circle around the middle - sometimes clear, sometimes less so. You may need to turn the disc to catch the light in the middle area of the CD. Anyway, these words/numbers/letters can, on occasions, give clues as to origin and when the discs were made (or, at least, which came before which in a given sequence). They may offer some clues to you.
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as I know, there exists many versions of DS' cd, e.g. the LOG album, i've seen 4 different kinds of west germany versions, and i believe they were all made in 1984. The target CD ?the blue swirl with blue text ?the blue swirl with black text and the orange swirl , they may share the identical mastering, my question is which one came first? and which last? thx ;D
nice pic, but not updated: I've added also the "missing piece" ;)
(http://s11.postimg.org/argmnr8cz/comm_bs.jpg)
The first kind of blue swirl (on the left in the pic) represents the first european (and world) release, dated early 83 (or late 82).
The second kind of blue swirl is the second european release (late 83? 1984?): for each title there are 2 variations: Made in West Germany (earlier) and Made in West Germany by Polygram, at 8 o'clock.
Then came the red swirls (Made in West Germany by Polygram, Made in W.Germany, Made in France, Made in Korea, Made in Germany,....)
Those with the target design are the first US releases (1983? 1984?): for each title there is a West Germany and a Japan release, but I can't say which came first (probably they are coeval)
For completeness: for Making Movies there isn't any "target"; for Alchemy there isn't the first kind of blue swirl nor the Japan target
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Most importantly are there any differences in the content! Is the sound equally good? Are there differences in tracks and lengths?
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Hmm...interesting info. I had seen these blue swirls before but thought they were maybe just from different markets. I had the red swirl on all up to and including Alchemy, but when the remasters came out in '96 I gave the red swirl MM and LOG to a friend. Regret it now.
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as I know, there exists many versions of DS' cd, e.g. the LOG album, i've seen 4 different kinds of west germany versions, and i believe they were all made in 1984. The target CD ?the blue swirl with blue text ?the blue swirl with black text and the orange swirl , they may share the identical mastering, my question is which one came first? and which last? thx ;D
nice pic, but not updated: I've added also the "missing piece" ;)
(http://s11.postimg.org/argmnr8cz/comm_bs.jpg)
The first kind of blue swirl (on the left in the pic) represents the first european (and world) release, dated early 83 (or late 82).
The second kind of blue swirl is the second european release (late 83? 1984?): for each title there are 2 variations: Made in West Germany (earlier) and Made in West Germany by Polygram, at 8 o'clock.
Then came the red swirls (Made in West Germany by Polygram, Made in W.Germany, Made in France, Made in Korea, Made in Germany,....)
Those with the target design are the first US releases (1983? 1984?): for each title there is a West Germany and a Japan release, but I can't say which came first (probably they are coeval)
For completeness: for Making Movies there isn't any "target"; for Alchemy there isn't the first kind of blue swirl nor the Japan target
thank you very much that's help me a lot ;D
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b.t.w. the collection picture shown above is not mine it's from the link http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/vertigo-blue-swirl-cd-version-of-communique-by-dire-straits-is-coming-to-me.245219/ :P
and i've found another explaination for the blue and red swirl label problem see the link: http://www.keithhirsch.com/the-many-faces-of-phonogram-cds-part-4-the-vertigo-label ;D
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So the first DS album, Communique and Love over gold not only have different mastering for Europe, USA and Japan, but they also have different track lengths and drop -outs (different from fade outs?) . Communique in almost all songs is longer at the Japanese for US WB targets! Total over 40 sec! Stunning! But is it a longer track to fade out or slightly different speed?
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Thanks Kidd and Rudiger! I know rudiger is an avid collector :wave , and I was glad to see his signature at Hoffman's site. I knew about the longer SOS, but not about the longer Lions and Communique. And I really don't get what they mean drop-out at 3:38 at Telegraph road.
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Forget CDs - vinyl original (2nd hand not re-issues) is the real deal. + phono amp & best speakers you can get...
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Fletch, I am with you. Rudiger knows that I collect mainly vinyl, but it is the collector bug that makes me participate here! I wouldn't buy the blue swirls with the money they usually ask at discogs and ebay, but I am interested if the versions are different, longer, other mastering, etc.
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Hi Vassilis, with "drop out" they mean a sudden drop in volume or a break (but we are talking about 1 second), but honestly I've never noticed it in Telegraph road.
With regard to the different masterings, I don't own an audiophile equipment and I can't notice substantial differences between West Germany and Japan releases. From a brief analysis of the preferences gathered around, there seems to be a larger appreciation for the West Germany versions, but not everyone agrees.
With regard to the different lenght of some songs, mostly it's a matter of seconds divided between music fading and a longer pause between songs. The only consistent (if one can use this term) difference is appreciable in SOS, where the final solo is a few seconds longer in the Warner Bros Japan and. IIRC, in the later "Made in USA" releases
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Thanks for the explanations Rudiger! Do you know if this longer version is available in the remastered ones, or any other release? Which version is used for the vinyl editions?
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I have the made in USA version and have it listed here:
http://www.oneverybootleg.nl/officially_owned_DS6.htm
On two songs, a bit longer tracktime.
Jeroen
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Vassilis, I've checked only SOS and I can confirm that in the Vertigo remaster this track is longer than in the first issue. I presume the same for Lions.
Vinyls are a world apart and I can't be of help.
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Thanks MK_Live and Rudiger! I will check with my vinyl editions and get back to you!
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Hi Vassilis, with "drop out" they mean a sudden drop in volume or a break (but we are talking about 1 second), but honestly I've never noticed it in Telegraph road.
With regard to the different masterings, I don't own an audiophile equipment and I can't notice substantial differences between West Germany and Japan releases. From a brief analysis of the preferences gathered around, there seems to be a larger appreciation for the West Germany versions, but not everyone agrees.
With regard to the different lenght of some songs, mostly it's a matter of seconds divided between music fading and a longer pause between songs. The only consistent (if one can use this term) difference is appreciable in SOS, where the final solo is a few seconds longer in the Warner Bros Japan and. IIRC, in the later "Made in USA" releases
As for the quality of mastering, I have read on audophiles forum that Dire Straits did not escape the very stupid "loudness war" of the 90s, and that the remasters suffer from (not as much as others, but still) compression (not in lossy vs. losseless terms of course, but in terms of dynamics being compressed, "brickwalled", so that the records sounds loud even in the quiet passages). Making Movies remaster is the most heavily criticised.
After years of reading on sound quality, I came to the following conclusions:
1/Plain,old, 16/44 standard redbook CD is more than adequate to store sound with utmost quality. Ultrasound can't be heard by definition, period, and 16 bit depth is more than enough for every level of sound the human ear can deal with. "High-resolution" 24/192 music, be it Neil Young's pono,SACD, DVD-A, or more recently "pure audio Blu Ray" are nothing but COMPLETE BULLSHIT. Differences in sound lies in the mastering, not the format. Even 320kb/s MP3 are just as good as CD when done right.
2/Nonetheless, a CD must be done right to sound great, and that's not often the case. Early CDs in the 80s suffered from bad A/D convertion process and bad D/A playbak systems. People put the blame of the format for music sounding "cold" and invented things like HDCD, with was bullshit as it required a propriatory decoding to sound "better". Unfortunatly some MK CDs, including GH and STP, were recorded with HDCD, and almost no HDCD player can be found now. Modern recording processes, such as the ones used in British Grove Studio, are way better than HDCD and do not require any special decoding.
3/So, the latter the better for CDs ? Not quite, because of the above mentionned "loudness wars". Even MK Cds are impacted...
So, it's complicated. Look for great mastering first, the format is not important !
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Vassilis, I've checked only SOS and I can confirm that in the Vertigo remaster this track is longer than in the first issue. I presume the same for Lions.
Vinyls are a world apart and I can't be of help.
And the remaster doesn't play at same speed.
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Thanks Herlock and ds1984. I had a deja vu, with this analysis of sound systems. I am only interested academically, since my audio system is a 20 years old Hi-Fi, so pretty beaten up by time and use. In the beginning and comparing with a previous cheap system I had, it was really a vast improvement, but now I can do it only by comparing with other people hi-fi. The only thing I have noticed is the compression of the new CDs-that you refer as brickwalled. I hate their sound, even if the music contained is fine. So thank you once again!