A Mark In Time

Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Pottel on August 31, 2014, 12:11:45 AM

Title: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Pottel on August 31, 2014, 12:11:45 AM
Hi Guy, i was wondering, is chuck ainley still involved in the latest recording sessions in BG Studios?
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Not on this record I'm afraid.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: 3Strats on August 31, 2014, 09:27:34 AM
We know Mark likes to change things around from time to time. Although we (as mere mortals) probably couldn't tell the difference, Chuck's input would no doubt result in a subtly different final mix on the album, despite Mark knowing exactly what he wants the finished article to sound like.  Presumably Guy has been given full co-production duties with Mark this time.
For me, Richard's replacement with Bruce Molsky is going to have much more of an effect on the sound of the album (although again, it will be hard to quantify unless Richard is called back for the tour and we can make a comparison). It could be that Mark just wanted a different style on a couple of the tracks and has done all the other guitars himself - Time will tell . . .  8)
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: LoveExpresso on August 31, 2014, 10:01:59 AM
Yes, it struck me that MK seems to have a very economical approach to his production sometimes. Guy has done a thing or two on Privateering,
including art work if I remember correctly. So maybe his results were viewed as great.  And he seems to be living at BG anyway. No flights from the US, no restricted time frame... just economical.

LE
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Pottel on August 31, 2014, 01:28:26 PM
thought this to be worth the extra thread.
chuck has been very crucial to the sound of the mark as we know him..
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: LoveExpresso on August 31, 2014, 03:16:08 PM
Yes, he has been on board since On Evey Street, hasn't he. Will be interesting to hear if there is a notable difference soundwise. After all, I guess, Guy and Mark learned a lot from Chuck and are not so opposite to his ideas, but more or less on the same path...

LE
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: dmg on August 31, 2014, 10:37:46 PM
If it is an acoustic album then that may account for Chuck's absence.   :think
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Banjo99uk on August 31, 2014, 11:09:31 PM
It wont be acoustic as I remember MK being negative about the MTV acoustic sessions. Surely as fans for many years we all know that MK does not do concept albums. I bet everyone here it will be a mix of styles as usual.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Jules on August 31, 2014, 11:23:20 PM
I expect a mix between Crimson and Privateering not bluesy songs. I dont expect more bluesy songs as long Guy and Mk did all guitars and keys, and Molsky playing makes me think an approach to american folk, bluegrass or americana, whatever it is  ;D

I know some fans that will be very happy that Chuck its not there, i heard some complaints about bass sounds, compression and general sound since Chuck took the helmet on 1990.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: dmg on September 01, 2014, 11:58:53 AM
I must admit that I can only see Chuck's absence as a positive since we've been going down a very much safe, uninspired road.  However, I doubt it in reality that it will make much difference at all.

Does anyone know how long the Macs were there?  Please say an hour or two!  :thumbsup
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: superval99 on September 01, 2014, 12:13:22 PM
I don't think the Macs were there more than a couple of days and although I do love them, I would like to hear an album more in the NHB style this time and Bruce Molsky being on the album will make the biggest difference imo.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Jules on September 01, 2014, 01:06:37 PM
I think that the folkies were about  a week and Molsky about three days, if I recall correctly what Guy wrote on his diary.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Jules on September 01, 2014, 01:41:04 PM
I don't think the Macs were there more than a couple of days and although I do love them, I would like to hear an album more in the NHB style this time and Bruce Molsky being on the album will make the biggest difference imo.

Tim O'Brienn was on privateering and his style is similar to Molsky...
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: dmg on September 01, 2014, 03:28:23 PM
I don't think there's any doubt about it sounding celtic/folk.  It's sounded that way all through his solo career except for STP.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: superval99 on September 01, 2014, 04:45:10 PM
I don't think there's any doubt about it sounding celtic/folk.  It's sounded that way all through his solo career except for STP.

That's fine for me too!   Just so long as he's still making albums and touring. :)
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: JF on September 01, 2014, 04:56:13 PM
I don't think there's any doubt about it sounding celtic/folk.  It's sounded that way all through his solo career except for STP.

I would say that Shangri-la is the less celtic album
even STP has a little bit "celtic" flavour with WII

but I agree that all other albums have more "folk-acoustic" stuff than STP

BTW, folk-acoustic doesn't always mean celtic, while celtic can be sometimes electric (WII, going home...)
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: yontwocrows on September 01, 2014, 05:10:59 PM
All the songs must have been well prepared by Mark and Guy. The whole range is possible: Rock/Blues/Roots music with the rhythm overdubb that Guy has mentioned, folk/celtic with the folkies, trumpet and sax swing etc. with Nigel etc. Everything is possible, but the rhythm overdubbs and folkies were short time in, so everything was well prepared and prerecorded. Just curious a.) how many songs are on the new record b.) which style is more focussed on c.) if the three songs like Bonfire night etc. are on it d.) the name of the record (new album is boring) e.) the topic of the songs and the lyrics
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Jules on September 02, 2014, 03:29:50 PM
Answer to C is no, according to Guy.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: yontwocrows on September 02, 2014, 08:10:20 PM
Answer to C is no, according to Guy.
Two skinny kids, right. But i thought always that Bonfire night would be a new song for this record? Was it recorded for another album? Have i missed something?
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: the visitor on September 02, 2014, 10:26:12 PM
I am interested to hear an album without Chuck involved. In fact it would be interested to hear an album by MK produced by someone different altogether who challenges his approach, e.g Clapton at the helm would be interesting, or a more contemporary producer, like Rick Rubin with Johnny Cash for example. The results could be interesting.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: dustyvalentino on September 02, 2014, 10:39:51 PM
I am interested to hear an album without Chuck involved. In fact it would be interested to hear an album by MK produced by someone different altogether who challenges his approach, e.g Clapton at the helm would be interesting, or a more contemporary producer, like Rick Rubin with Johnny Cash for example. The results could be interesting.

Agreed,  I would go for T Bone Burnett.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: dustyvalentino on September 02, 2014, 10:40:27 PM
Or Daniel Lanois.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: border_reiver on September 02, 2014, 10:42:49 PM
I am interested to hear an album without Chuck involved. In fact it would be interested to hear an album by MK produced by someone different altogether who challenges his approach, e.g Clapton at the helm would be interesting, or a more contemporary producer, like Rick Rubin with Johnny Cash for example. The results could be interesting.

Agreed,  I would go for T Bone Burnett.

I second that opinion!
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: dmg on September 02, 2014, 11:41:56 PM
I am interested to hear an album without Chuck involved. In fact it would be interested to hear an album by MK produced by someone different altogether who challenges his approach, e.g Clapton at the helm would be interesting, or a more contemporary producer, like Rick Rubin with Johnny Cash for example. The results could be interesting.

Agreed,  I would go for T Bone Burnett.

I second that opinion!

Mark wouldn't trade his yakety axe for a T-bone!  ;D
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Banjo99uk on September 03, 2014, 12:09:33 AM
I'd get rid of GF as a producer as well. MK's albums are over produced and too highly polished for my tastes these days. Most of his songs only come alive played live.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: LoveExpresso on September 03, 2014, 07:54:56 AM
Yes, example for the bad, polished thing is the Privateering track, with this industrial sound and the "intellectual" clapping, which goes on my nerves, why are they changing the clapping in the second going, too complicated for a seaman's song.. plus the band part sounds as you say, polished...

Examples for songs which I like the way they are produced:
Wanderlust, What It Is, 5.15 am, Boom Like That, Sucker Row especially, Fish And the Bird, Secondary Waltz, NOT Punish the Monkey, Before Gas & TV, Get Lucky, Redbud Tree, Gator Blood, Today is Okay...

Some songs need a "polished" approach like the phantastic track Hard Shoulder which is perfectly produced from my point of view..

How much I would love another "rough" sounding recording like Making Movies. Also Love Over Gold sounded, as tricky as it was, very live recorded.

LE
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Jules on September 03, 2014, 08:59:42 AM
Answer to C is no, according to Guy.
Two skinny kids, right. But i thought always that Bonfire night would be a new song for this record? Was it recorded for another album? Have i missed something?

Two skinny kids is from Stp sessions, Bonfire night from Get Lucky sessions.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: superval99 on September 03, 2014, 09:22:50 AM
Most of his songs only come alive played live.

Agreed!   After I've heard a song played live, I prefer to listen to the live recordings, rather than the studio version.   :)
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: border_reiver on September 03, 2014, 10:03:06 AM
Most of his songs only come alive played live.

Agreed!   After I've heard a song played live, I prefer to listen to the live recordings, rather than the studio version.   :)

Maybe it's an equipment issue in my case, but when comparing the "Corned Beef City" studio vs. live version I find that the studio one sounds muffled and too bassy. Listening to the live version it opens up a bit more. Is it just me or..?

But in defense to the Privateering-album, there are still some nicely produced rough cut tracks like "Got to have something" or "Gator Blood".
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: superval99 on September 03, 2014, 10:13:37 AM
Most of his songs only come alive played live.

Agreed!   After I've heard a song played live, I prefer to listen to the live recordings, rather than the studio version.   :)

Maybe it's an equipment issue in my case, but when comparing the "Corned Beef City" studio vs. live version I find that the studio one sounds muffled and too bassy. Listening to the live version it opens up a bit more. Is it just me or..?

But in defense to the Privateering-album, there are still some nicely produced rough cut tracks like "Got to have something" or "Gator Blood".

No, it's not just you BR.  I find a lot of MKs albums too bassy for my liking.   One example, from TRD, "A Place Where We Used to Live" is really bass heavy.   Maybe it's an equipment issue for me too!    :think
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: holaknopfler on September 03, 2014, 10:43:13 AM
Go Love is an excellent example as well
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Jules on September 03, 2014, 12:59:33 PM
Bass sounds and compression are the complaints I always hear about Chuck's work.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: yontwocrows on September 03, 2014, 04:48:02 PM
Answer to C is no, according to Guy.
Two skinny kids, right. But i thought always that Bonfire night would be a new song for this record? Was it recorded for another album? Have i missed something?

Two skinny kids is from Stp sessions, Bonfire night from Get Lucky sessions.
Thanks Jbaent, didn't know that.
---
Just my 2 cents to the producer discussion: I always prefered the live versions even in Dire Straits days. So i don't know if it is really a recording matter. I like Guy being co-producer and i think it's not a good suggestion replacing him. He is the person who has the longest experience in collaborating with Mark on the whole planet. They are a good team, they have a good spirit and i don't think that a new producer can influence Mark that much you all seem to suppose. I can also understand that they are eager to experiment with all the equipement. They have at least the flow to keep on working. And i think Mark wants to have the control over the production and don't want to be dependent on another person. Guy has been supporting Mark for such a long time now, he has been playing such a centre role in all the producing questions and they do a good job (Privateering is a well produced record). Why don't you respect this?
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Tally on September 03, 2014, 07:53:10 PM
Polished albums have always been MK's thing it seems to me, possibly with the exception of of Making Movies like someone mentioned. One reason many people never "got" DS was probably because they only heard studio versions of songs (which were great, but live was so much more "alive").
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: dmg on September 03, 2014, 08:08:32 PM
Mark always has a great loyalty to people in his band, well most of the time anyway.  This leads me to believe that he has chucked Chuck aside merely due to the style of song on the new record and not because he wants something fresh.  Chuck will be back for the next again one I'll bet.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: LoveExpresso on September 03, 2014, 08:11:19 PM
Just my 2 cents to the producer discussion: I always prefered the live versions even in Dire Straits days. So i don't know if it is really a recording matter. I like Guy being co-producer and i think it's not a good suggestion replacing him. He is the person who has the longest experience in collaborating with Mark on the whole planet. They are a good team, they have a good spirit and i don't think that a new producer can influence Mark that much you all seem to suppose. I can also understand that they are eager to experiment with all the equipement. They have at least the flow to keep on working. And i think Mark wants to have the control over the production and don't want to be dependent on another person. Guy has been supporting Mark for such a long time now, he has been playing such a centre role in all the producing questions and they do a good job (Privateering is a well produced record). Why don't you respect this?

Hey, Yontwocrows, now we know it: You are Guy!!  ;D (And The Visitor is TK..  :wave)  just kidding..
I think wanting a change does not automatically mean "we" are not respecting Guy. Sometimes it brings some fresh air to change some things. Mark tends to do his changes only careful and slightly, mostly drummers  ::).. and you are right about the fact that Mark wants to have the control over the production and doesn't want to be dependent on another person.
My theory: Maybe the loong recording run last time was a little bit difficult to handle for the Americans. Chuck is maybe not able to stay at BG as long as Mark wishes him to be, same with Richard. Remember, when they recorded RPD or Shangri-La, it was clear that they were in those studios for a certain number of weeks. Now Mark has obviously this open approach, maybe he cannot book Richard and Chuck forever. Playing drum and bass parts might be easier to handle, so Glen comes over, plays his parts and goes back to the US.
So Mark kills two birds with one stone in letting Guy do  the producer's job, he is there anyway. Pretty pragmatic if you wish. Just a theory of course.

LE
 
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: dustyvalentino on September 03, 2014, 09:52:59 PM
Maybe a cost thing too, the records don't sell many copies these days, especially when they don't even get released in the world's biggest marketplace.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Jules on September 03, 2014, 10:58:04 PM
LE, remember that Chuck Ainlay was at BG around january or february for the ezdrummer presentation, and MK was already wirking at BG...
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: yontwocrows on September 04, 2014, 12:13:51 AM
Quote
Hey, Yontwocrows, now we know it: You are Guy!!  ;D


Damn it! Was it really that obvious?  ::)

Back to the speculations:

1.) Costs: Yes, i think they're trying to optimize it. (Mark plays Richard parts / Guy plays Jim parts and replaces Chuck / The other musicians involved, are in the studio as short as possible).
2.) Americans: LE, your theory is somehow convincing.

Quote
This leads me to believe that he has chucked Chuck aside merely due to the style of song on the new record and not because he wants something fresh.
- Yes, but what style do we aspect now(polished, clear sound, Celtic Folk blended with americana?)



Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: border_reiver on September 04, 2014, 10:27:17 AM
I'm crossing fingers that MK's going for the "Transatlantic Sessions"-kind of sound. If so, maybe Ainlay isn't the perfect match? (Wildly speculating of course)
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: LoveExpresso on September 04, 2014, 10:35:08 AM
A mix of all, as usual. Mark never does one-style-albums - everyone who maybe expected him to do a proper "blues album" has to live with Privateering. Not sure why he does it.. every aspect of his musical career is always incorporated - the roots stuff, the tricky, soundtrack-like stuff, the "funny songs", the one rocker song, the war song theme, the song with strings in it and so on. Listening to a new MK album for the first time rarely gives surprises, but always "ah, now that's the xy song variation"...  The last time I was really surprised was when I heard the heavy loud slide guitar part on Gator Blood!

So - high class musical variation with great sound, great lyrics and the unmistakable MK touch - yes, a lot! Surprises - not too much I'm afraid..

 ;)

LE

Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: superval99 on September 04, 2014, 10:35:46 AM
I'm crossing fingers that MK's going for the "Transatlantic Sessions"-kind of sound. If so, maybe Ainlay isn't the perfect match? (Wildly speculating of course)

A lot of MK's album band are connected with Transatlantic Sessions - so many, in fact, that it is almost TS!   :think
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: LoveExpresso on September 04, 2014, 10:48:16 AM
I am sure Mr. Molsky will add some nice and positive things to the new album, the same as I liked very much what Tim O'Brien added to Privateering.
Just little parts, not more, but giving a special flavour to the sound.

LE
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: border_reiver on September 04, 2014, 12:56:40 PM
I'm crossing fingers that MK's going for the "Transatlantic Sessions"-kind of sound. If so, maybe Ainlay isn't the perfect match? (Wildly speculating of course)

A lot of MK's album band are connected with Transatlantic Sessions - so many, in fact, that it is almost TS!   :think

Yes, true. But what I meant to say was that the TS isn't overproduced, the whole musical setup is crystal clear and not lost in the mix.

I hope I was clear enough  :)
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: vgonis on September 05, 2014, 11:39:34 AM
Lanois for me! Or Brian Eno. Let's get some new sounds.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: ds1984 on September 05, 2014, 09:57:31 PM
Maybe a cost thing too, the records don't sell many copies these days, especially when they don't even get released in the world's biggest marketplace.

Which one ?

Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: dmg on September 05, 2014, 10:36:35 PM
Maybe a cost thing too, the records don't sell many copies these days, especially when they don't even get released in the world's biggest marketplace.

Which one ?

Presumably N Korea.  ;)  Joking, it's most likely the US isn't it?  Well, not for about a year after everywhere else anyway!
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: ds1984 on September 06, 2014, 07:40:16 PM
Maybe a cost thing too, the records don't sell many copies these days, especially when they don't even get released in the world's biggest marketplace.

Which one ?

Presumably N Korea.  ;)  Joking, it's most likely the US isn't it?  Well, not for about a year after everywhere else anyway!

All album by Mark are releasad on US market.
Priveteering was an exception as there was obviously something going wrong between MK and WB at the time of release.
Since, WB is contract has not been renewed and is no more distributing any MK related stuff in the US as UMG has taken over.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: dustyvalentino on September 06, 2014, 08:15:43 PM
Yes, US. They were touring the States promoting an album that people couldn't even buy, a la Spinal Tap.

Yes, some people might have waited a year to buy but a lot probably just illegally downloaded.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: Tally on September 06, 2014, 10:42:21 PM
It probably sold about 50 copies in the US. The money's in the live shows these days.
Title: Re: chuck ainlay not on new record?
Post by: vgonis on September 07, 2014, 09:15:49 AM
I think that they could still buy imported and from MK.com.