A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: WaterofLove on April 04, 2016, 07:42:10 AM
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And when?
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The last Tunnel of love live was performed probably in Milan or Florence 1992.
Mark after his father died (Tunnel of love was a favourite song by his father) decided to not never play it.
I know this.
Bye
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Last performance was probably 2nd October 1992; I have a bootleg from this date with ToL on it. I have a few other bootlegs after this date too and they all have TR so unless it was performed in Madrid, 6th October then Barcelona, 2nd October was the final performance.
I doubt his Father's death had any influence. I don't know him (obviously) but he doesn't appear the sentimental type to me. It is more likely to be that he doesn't feel he could do the song justice any more, certainly in terms of the energy the singing requires. Even on the OES tour it sounded quite lifeless. Also, the 96ers are more Nashville than Rock 'n' Roll, the very reason he has never performed the song in his solo career. As Ed rightly said - The Dullards. Worthy musicians, but dull for the music of DS.
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thanks dmg for update me :) :) :)
Bye
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I have explained this several times
in 1995 before any solo tour someone from Management told me that MK was not going to perform Tunnel of Love live again because it was the fav song of his father.
Initially I didn't know what to think. after so many tours and years I guess it is the truth.
So whenever someone close to him dies he won't play their favourite song of his? I think this is unlikely and perhaps Mark or his management is using it as an excuse. One could turn it around as say to him he could play it as a tribute to his father. I think the who idea is a nonsense.
Personally I don't want him to play it now anyway because I don't want to even think about how my favourite song would sound.
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I have explained this several times
in 1995 before any solo tour someone from Management told me that MK was not going to perform Tunnel of Love live again because it was the fav song of his father.
Initially I didn't know what to think. after so many tours and years I guess it is the truth.
So whenever someone close to him dies he won't play their favourite song of his? I think this is unlikely and perhaps Mark or his management is using it as an excuse. One could turn it around as say to him he could play it as a tribute to his father. I think the who idea is a nonsense.
Personally I don't want him to play it now anyway because I don't want to even think about how my favourite song would sound.
It would probably have some cittern and flute.
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I think you are right, dmg. I don't think his father is the reason. Some of his songs, like Sultans, can be slowed down, but i think ToL would be ruined so maybe that is the reason. He doesn't play MFN anymore either, I think?
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Telegraph Road has exactly the same problem but it was played in every tour...
MFN was played for more than 1 solo tour...
There must be a really big reason for a sudden and complete disappearance... I 100% believe the father's reason
Maybe he gradually decided to choose another path musicwise? From rock to country, ballades, blues and folk? Sultans, Brothers in Arms, TR and Romeo and Juliet works. But MFN, ToL, Lady writer, Calling Elvis and others doesn't?
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I think you are right, dmg. I don't think his father is the reason. Some of his songs, like Sultans, can be slowed down, but i think ToL would be ruined so maybe that is the reason. He doesn't play MFN anymore either, I think?
Telegraph Road has exactly the same problem but it was played in every tour...
MFN was played for more than 1 solo tour...
There must be a really big reason for such a sudden and early disappearance...
I 100% believe the father's reason and it perfectly fits the timing...
There are maybe a few reasons but I believe the fact he started playing with the Dullards is the main one. Also, I don't think the OES tour versions quite hit the spot during the lyrics section and he was even struggling with the solos early on in that tour. It would only sound even more weary from '96 onward. TR is a song where he can take breaks every so often and only has to stretch out in the final solo, which he can improvise more on if he makes greenies. Now he's even stopped playing that!
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I have explained this several times
in 1995 before any solo tour someone from Management told me that MK was not going to perform Tunnel of Love live again because it was the fav song of his father.
Initially I didn't know what to think. after so many tours and years I guess it is the truth.
So whenever someone close to him dies he won't play their favourite song of his? I think this is unlikely and perhaps Mark or his management is using it as an excuse. One could turn it around as say to him he could play it as a tribute to his father. I think the who idea is a nonsense.
Personally I don't want him to play it now anyway because I don't want to even think about how my favourite song would sound.
It would probably have some cittern and flute.
+1
;D ;D ;D
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I think you are right, dmg. I don't think his father is the reason. Some of his songs, like Sultans, can be slowed down, but i think ToL would be ruined so maybe that is the reason. He doesn't play MFN anymore either, I think?
He does. When he's in the mood. And the mood often coincides with multi billion corporate private gigs (like VW). That's when he opens the DS drawer. Which just goes to show that anyone can be bought. I'm certain that TOL has a price tag too.
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Could any of us in a sane state of mind have imagined On The Night without Tunnel of Love, Telegraph, Sultans and Planet of new Orleans ?
None but MK did
MK is a strange guy, very strange from certain points of view
I think he dropped TOL as a tribute to his father, maybe there was even an arrangement between them, who knows
Stuff like this, like TOL is far beyond his comfort zone.
It's better to stick with the same 14 overly beaten songs and 2 new ones per tour (always the least popular ones) for decades and decades ;)
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And the mood often coincides with multi billion corporate private gigs (like VW). That's when he opens the DS drawer. Which just goes to show that anyone can be bought. I'm certain that TOL has a price tag too.
Before this turns into another setlist debate, I'd like to point out that your looking at MK almost as if he's a hungry wolf searching for money with no morality. On private shows he ofcourse opens up the Dire Straits box of tricks, but what songs are it? The often performed Romeo and Juliet and Sultans of Swing, Going Home and alright, the dropped Walk of Life and Money For Nothing. Rarely playing Brothers in Arms, we could also count that to the last category. Your Latest Trick was played last time, but we could also see that as a dress rehearsal for the tour. The price tag of MK MFN and WOL when asked to play Dire Straits songs is not that high and its not too strange he chooses this songs, he just got tired of playing these and dropped them on his shows (he played MFN over 500 times live and WOL over 450 times). Asking for TOL is different and I'm sure you cannot buy that song, no matter how much you offer. Just like you can't buy a DS reunion and you can't buy MK performing with the Spice Girls. It has only been performed around 230 times and as it is a great song, MK just doesn't want to play it anymore because of his father, which to me seems to be a very plausible reason. If MK would play TOL live for money, he could easily reunite Dire Straits (every ex member but him wants it) and make ten times as much out of playing Sultans once more.
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And the mood often coincides with multi billion corporate private gigs (like VW). That's when he opens the DS drawer. Which just goes to show that anyone can be bought. I'm certain that TOL has a price tag too.
Before this turns into another setlist debate, I'd like to point out that your looking at MK almost as if he's a hungry wolf searching for money with no morality. On private shows he ofcourse opens up the Dire Straits box of tricks, but what songs are it? The often performed Romeo and Juliet and Sultans of Swing, Going Home and alright, the dropped Walk of Life and Money For Nothing. Rarely playing Brothers in Arms, we could also count that to the last category. Your Latest Trick was played last time, but we could also see that as a dress rehearsal for the tour. The price tag of MK MFN and WOL when asked to play Dire Straits songs is not that high and its not too strange he chooses this songs, he just got tired of playing these and dropped them on his shows (he played MFN over 500 times live and WOL over 450 times). Asking for TOL is different and I'm sure you cannot buy that song, no matter how much you offer. Just like you can't buy a DS reunion and you can't buy MK performing with the Spice Girls. It has only been performed around 230 times and as it is a great song, MK just doesn't want to play it anymore because of his father, which to me seems to be a very plausible reason. If MK would play TOL live for money, he could easily reunite Dire Straits (every ex member but him wants it) and make ten times as much out of playing Sultans once more.
Nope, I'm just one of those guys who despises double standards.
Don't say you've grown tired on Dire Straits and then go up in front of 300 people to play what 300 000 fans on a tour wants to hear, but never will.
Where's jbaent when I need him? ;D
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Nope, I'm just one of those guys who despises double standards.
Don't say you've grown tired on Dire Straits and then go up in front of 300 people to play what 300 000 fans on a tour wants to hear, but never will.
I get pretty mad myself when I see the set he plays on these corporate gigs yet he only plays what he wants for the paying fans. >:(
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"So you wanna hear TOL? Well here's an LOL..."
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"So you wanna hear TOL? Well here's an LOL..."
:lol
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I think there's quite a big and valid difference between them paying MK to make him do what they want (and again, he has not gone really far on private gigs) and us paying to see MK do what he likes.
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I think there's quite a big and valid difference between them paying MK to make him do what they want (and again, he has not gone really far on private gigs) and us paying to see MK do what he likes.
I respect your point. But where you see a difference I see a similarity.
The only difference is that we fans don't lend our cars for the band to travel throughout Europe in. Instead, our tickets pay the gas.
(I thrive in these debates :) )
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But in the end we get a happy MK playing Marbletown and they get a not so motivated MK playing Walk of Life :lol
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But in the end we get a happy MK playing Marbletown and they get a not so motivated MK playing Walk of Life :lol
Ah, the devastating rock star life. Being forced and thus not so motivated playing the stuff that got you where you are and the gear you use.
(No I'm no Legacy/Legends type... I just can't get the personality that isn't motivated by seeing cheerful fans)
Take Skydiver this last tour. What motivates you when seeing a whole crowd being turned down from an 8 on the cheering scale to a silent pack of statues?
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I don't understand that money motivates him to play the DS stuff at private events? Isn't he filthy rich? Worth more than £100 million?
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(No I'm no Legacy/Legends type... I just can't get the personality that isn't motivated by seeing cheerful fans)
Take Skydiver this last tour. What motivates you when seeing a whole crowd being turned down from an 8 on the cheering scale to a silent pack of statues?
+1
Well said that man.
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(No I'm no Legacy/Legends type... I just can't get the personality that isn't motivated by seeing cheerful fans)
Take Skydiver this last tour. What motivates you when seeing a whole crowd being turned down from an 8 on the cheering scale to a silent pack of statues?
+1
Well said that man.
Cheers mate! :)
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I think you are right, dmg. I don't think his father is the reason. Some of his songs, like Sultans, can be slowed down, but i think ToL would be ruined so maybe that is the reason. He doesn't play MFN anymore either, I think?
Telegraph Road has exactly the same problem but it was played in every tour...
MFN was played for more than 1 solo tour...
There must be a really big reason for such a sudden and early disappearance...
I 100% believe the father's reason and it perfectly fits the timing...
There are maybe a few reasons but I believe the fact he started playing with the Dullards is the main one. Also, I don't think the OES tour versions quite hit the spot during the lyrics section and he was even struggling with the solos early on in that tour. It would only sound even more weary from '96 onward.
Really ? Imo TOL from the OES tour is fantastic
Indeed it was.
Ok, short intro. But Munich'91 has the most touching outro solo I've ever heard. Don't say it is not well played just because you don't like the pensa sound, it is not fair !
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Last performance was probably 2nd October 1992; I have a bootleg from this date with ToL on it. I have a few other bootlegs after this date too and they all have TR so unless it was performed in Madrid, 6th October then Barcelona, 2nd October was the final performance.
I doubt his Father's death had any influence. I don't know him (obviously) but he doesn't appear the sentimental type to me. It is more likely to be that he doesn't feel he could do the song justice any more, certainly in terms of the energy the singing requires. Even on the OES tour it sounded quite lifeless. Also, the 96ers are more Nashville than Rock 'n' Roll, the very reason he has never performed the song in his solo career. As Ed rightly said - The Dullards. Worthy musicians, but dull for the music of DS.
I think you are both right: initially it must have been the sentimental reason. In 1996 Mark was still very energetic and could have performed TOL with no problems. Now he would probably struggle, so even though 23 years of mourning is enough, he would not play it.
This being said, am I the only one to think that DS songs were very well played in 2015 ?
-Sultans: renewed energy and old licks.
-R&J: sax is back and with a new middle solo
-Brothers:love this version, intro is back, synth is back, and yet not as slow as 96 or 01 (I like it fast)
-OES: love it, I prefer sax over pedal steel
-YLT: superb intro (She's gone), more authentic feel that in 92 where it was kind of robotic
Only TR I think lacks energy, I prefer 2010 or 2013, and actually 96/2001/2005 without the infamous karaoke mode. Although i still love to hear TR, whatever the version.
I find myself listening to the 2015 versions more than any others. Also I love the arrangements of solo songs like Speedway, HFB, KOG (listen to the Manchester versions where the synth can be well heard, very nice !).
Not that bad for so-called "decadent times". My 2 cents.
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Last performance was probably 2nd October 1992; I have a bootleg from this date with ToL on it. I have a few other bootlegs after this date too and they all have TR so unless it was performed in Madrid, 6th October then Barcelona, 2nd October was the final performance.
I doubt his Father's death had any influence. I don't know him (obviously) but he doesn't appear the sentimental type to me. It is more likely to be that he doesn't feel he could do the song justice any more, certainly in terms of the energy the singing requires. Even on the OES tour it sounded quite lifeless. Also, the 96ers are more Nashville than Rock 'n' Roll, the very reason he has never performed the song in his solo career. As Ed rightly said - The Dullards. Worthy musicians, but dull for the music of DS.
I think you are both right: initially it must have been the sentimental reason. In 1996 Mark was still very energetic and could have performed TOL with no problems. Now he would probably struggle, so even though 23 years of mourning is enough, he would not play it.
This being said, am I the only one to think that DS songs were very well played in 2015 ?
-Sultans: renewed energy and old licks.
-R&J: sax is back and with a new middle solo
-Brothers:love this version, intro is back, synth is back, and yet not as slow as 96 or 01 (I like it fast)
-OES: love it, I prefer sax over pedal steel
-YLT: superb intro (She's gone), more authentic feel that in 92 where it was kind of robotic
Only TR I think lacks energy, I prefer 2010 or 2013, and actually 96/2001/2005 without the infamous karaoke mode. Although i still love to hear TR, whatever the version.
I find myself listening to the 2015 versions more than any others. Also I love the arrangements of solo songs like Speedway, HFB, KOG (listen to the Manchester versions where the synth can be well heard, very nice !).
Not that bad for so-called "decadent times". My 2 cents.
I have been listening to the 2010 and 2013 versions of TR quite a lot recently and I agree with you that there are some that are really exceptionally good. I have always loved the Manchester 2010 version, but compared to Liverpool 2013, Carcassonne 2013 and RAH 2013, it now seems pretty sedate, due in some way to Matt's rather polite piano, but the end solo is really fantastic - to me anyway! I think Jim's piano-playing has added extra energy to TR since 2013!
I enjoyed the 2015 concerts very much, especially Manchester, which was especially good with SOS, KOG and also TR played very well. I was sorry to have missed OES and YLT on my concerts, but I enjoyed them on the recordings I have heard:)
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Sorry Herlock, I have to comment that 2015 was by far the worst tour all round for our man IMO. Even resurrected songs one would expect to be full of new life like YLT and OES were performed with little to no energy. His vocal on most songs was awful too, especially YLT and R&J. Best song of the tour was probably KOG but that was soon dropped. I do so wish he would practice playing his guitar when not touring. Just sometimes!
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Sorry Herlock, I have to comment that 2015 was by far the worst tour all round for our man IMO. Even resurrected songs one would expect to be full of new life like YLT and OES were performed with little to no energy. His vocal on most songs was awful too, especially YLT and R&J. Best song of the tour was probably KOG but that was soon dropped. I do so wish he would practice playing his guitar when not touring. Just sometimes!
I really disagee. OES is really nice on the recoedings, si is BIA. and YLT. R&J altough not my fav was played nicely with sax. You yourself that Old licks were resurrected in SoS. Only for TR I feel 2013 had more energy...
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Please keep in mind that these corporate events and sponsoring contracts subsidise the whole tour and in the end our ticket price, too. Maybe we should hire him for an AMIT show?
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Great posts from Border Reiver and dmg in this thread. Very refreshing. Thanks for that.
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Great posts from Border Reiver and dmg in this thread. Very refreshing. Thanks for that.
Cheers!
Well, my opinion is that nobody is flawless to such an extent that some things can't be seen from another perspective. And if you can't see that other angle, well you're basically in a cult.
I gave up on the stargazing North Korean kind of fandom many years ago, and I've never looked back. Still my wife says I spend too much time and money on MK... :)
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Great posts from Border Reiver and dmg in this thread. Very refreshing. Thanks for that.
Thanks! We know Mark sets high standards and I have such high expectations of the great man having listened to him perform over many years. We have all heard such fabulous stuff from him that a drop in his performance level is always disappointing for me. I just say it like it is on this forum because I know it's going to be read by people who understand.
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Sorry Herlock, I have to comment that 2015 was by far the worst tour all round for our man IMO. Even resurrected songs one would expect to be full of new life like YLT and OES were performed with little to no energy. His vocal on most songs was awful too, especially YLT and R&J. Best song of the tour was probably KOG but that was soon dropped. I do so wish he would practice playing his guitar when not touring. Just sometimes!
You don't think he practice between tours? :o
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I think you are right, dmg. I don't think his father is the reason. Some of his songs, like Sultans, can be slowed down, but i think ToL would be ruined so maybe that is the reason. He doesn't play MFN anymore either, I think?
Telegraph Road has exactly the same problem but it was played in every tour...
MFN was played for more than 1 solo tour...
There must be a really big reason for such a sudden and early disappearance...
I 100% believe the father's reason and it perfectly fits the timing...
I think so too Pensa but as we don't know the truth and we will probably never be able to find out, I have no argument to add. And besides I tend to think that his Father's death can be an reasonable explanation....
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Sorry Herlock, I have to comment that 2015 was by far the worst tour all round for our man IMO. Even resurrected songs one would expect to be full of new life like YLT and OES were performed with little to no energy. His vocal on most songs was awful too, especially YLT and R&J. Best song of the tour was probably KOG but that was soon dropped. I do so wish he would practice playing his guitar when not touring. Just sometimes!
You don't think he practice between tours? :o
Certainly not as much as he should. He is always rusty at the start of the tours and only gets up to speed a month or so into it. He admitted in an interview that he doesn't practice as much as he should. I believe him! :)
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Sorry Herlock, I have to comment that 2015 was by far the worst tour all round for our man IMO. Even resurrected songs one would expect to be full of new life like YLT and OES were performed with little to no energy. His vocal on most songs was awful too, especially YLT and R&J. Best song of the tour was probably KOG but that was soon dropped. I do so wish he would practice playing his guitar when not touring. Just sometimes!
You don't think he practice between tours? :o
Certainly not as much as he should. He is always rusty at the start of the tours and only gets up to speed a month or so into it. He admitted in an interview that he doesn't practice as much as he should. I believe him! :)
That's the autopilot's fault. The comfort zone is always the comfiest :)
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I don't think this has anything to do with practise.
Just that Mark is ageing as everybody do, and really physically struggle to keep his ability to play as he used to could.
C'est la vie
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Sorry Herlock, I have to comment that 2015 was by far the worst tour all round for our man IMO. Even resurrected songs one would expect to be full of new life like YLT and OES were performed with little to no energy. His vocal on most songs was awful too, especially YLT and R&J. Best song of the tour was probably KOG but that was soon dropped. I do so wish he would practice playing his guitar when not touring. Just sometimes!
You don't think he practice between tours? :o
Certainly not as much as he should. He is always rusty at the start of the tours and only gets up to speed a month or so into it. He admitted in an interview that he doesn't practice as much as he should. I believe him! :)
The Manchester 2015 concert was only the second and it was certainly one of the best of that tour that I have heard ! :)
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Certainly not as much as he should. He is always rusty at the start of the tours and only gets up to speed a month or so into it. He admitted in an interview that he doesn't practice as much as he should. I believe him! :)
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The Manchester 2015 concert was only the second and it was certainly one of the best of that tour that I have heard ! :)
[/quote]
I agree, but I think he was playing with full concentration on the first few gigs so as not to make too many mistakes. Manchester was a stand-out concert last year.
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I don't think this has anything to do with practise.
Just that Mark is ageing as everybody do, and really physically struggle to keep his ability to play as he used to could.
C'est la vie
So true ds1984. He is a normal human being and he is going to be 67 in August this year. I don't expect from him to play and sing like he did before... As you said in French, that's life!! So happy to have seen him perform Live one time last year..
Sorry Herlock, I have to comment that 2015 was by far the worst tour all round for our man IMO. Even resurrected songs one would expect to be full of new life like YLT and OES were performed with little to no energy. His vocal on most songs was awful too, especially YLT and R&J. Best song of the tour was probably KOG but that was soon dropped. I do so wish he would practice playing his guitar when not touring. Just sometimes!
You don't think he practice between tours? :o
Certainly not as much as he should. He is always rusty at the start of the tours and only gets up to speed a month or so into it. He admitted in an interview that he doesn't practice as much as he should. I believe him! :)
The Manchester 2015 concert was only the second and it was certainly one of the best of that tour that I have heard ! :)
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Live TOL is a long song, over 12 minutes, he picked Telegraph road instead
Both song are played in the same key D minor
I believe, he gave it up because of sentimental causes, his father death
This song final solo forward me to start playing the guitar by 2005
regards
ybot