A Mark In Time

Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: the visitor on November 02, 2016, 06:40:30 PM

Title: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: the visitor on November 02, 2016, 06:40:30 PM
For those of you in the UK the event which inspired Mark to pen the song Iron Hand is featuring strongly in the press at the moment due to the Government refusal to open a Public Inquiry into the event.

Read more here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37826507

No matter where you stand on the event, the song is undoubtedly Mark's most overtly political song in which he compares the clash between Police and Miners to a battle of ancient times. Here is what MK said on the song in an interview around the time of the release of On Every Street album which the song can be found on:

MK: But it was a kind of riot, I suppose, that was a few years ago, during the miners' strike. I just happened to come home one night, and saw it on television; and I just got, er... I was shocked. And the BBC said that night that the Queen was said to be 'shocked by today's scenes', and I thought 'well I'm shocked as well'. And the cavalry...it was the cavalry, it just seemed like an old-fashioned, an ancient battle scene. And it just seemed to me that that's not the way to resolve confrontations or disputes that, er... in Britain we have a tradition of resolving those kind of things in another way. And I hope that we haven't had five hundred years of democracy for nothing. And it seemed to me to be a terrible shame to see men being damaged that way in such an ancient fashion - I mean it was medaeval. I'm not taking a left or a right view on it at all. Maybe there were some people there who wanted to 'overturn democracy', but there would have been no chance of doing that. But most of those men were miners, just ordinary coal-miners, and miners have got one of the best industrial records going - they've only been on strike two or three times in their entire history. I'm not blaming individual policemen, because if you're a policeman you do what you're told - but it just seemed to me to be a shameful situation, to charge a bunch of coal-miners like that with horses; and it was such a military, militaristic operation, these foot-soldiers with shields, and parting in the middle and these horses just coming right through the gap. There's really got to be no place in our society, it seems to me, for anything like that - end of speech





Interesting stuff and a very powerful song.
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: straitsway75 on November 02, 2016, 07:13:19 PM
 :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: Love Expresso on November 02, 2016, 08:19:56 PM
I remember with a happy heart that Iron Hand was played at my first Dire Straits concert Sept. 26th in 1991 in Bremen, after a furious Sultans and around five minutes or more storming applause. It was just Mark and his guitar if I remember correctly. It seems this song was not played live very often. I always loved it from the first listen on the Calling Elvis single.

LE
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: quizzaciously on November 02, 2016, 08:27:42 PM
I must say that slide guitar work on this song is one of the best examples of such in Mark's discography. Tonality, atmosphere is great, too.
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: Pondlive on November 02, 2016, 08:40:59 PM
Very interesting, you learn something new every day.

Thank you.

Pondy.
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: dustyvalentino on November 02, 2016, 08:41:45 PM
I must say that slide guitar work on this song is one of the best examples of such in Mark's discography. Tonality, atmosphere is great, too.
Pretty sure it's all Paul Franklin.
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: Jules on November 03, 2016, 08:41:18 AM
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucv3JIasPCQ
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: Masiakasaurus on November 03, 2016, 01:34:52 PM
I agree about the lapsteel, it's brilliant!

Btw, I seem to remember Mark saying in an interview that he was sick when he recorded it and he didn't seem excited about it at all. Does this sound familiar to you? Then again, during those days he normally wasn't that cheerful.
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: Love Expresso on November 03, 2016, 03:38:11 PM
Not sure what you are referring to?

LE
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: olazabalrok on November 03, 2016, 07:33:19 PM
I agree about the lapsteel, it's brilliant!

Btw, I seem to remember Mark saying in an interview that he was sick when he recorded it and he didn't seem excited about it at all. Does this sound familiar to you? Then again, during those days he normally wasn't that cheerful.

I thought he said that about recording Fade to black.
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: dmg on November 03, 2016, 07:34:57 PM
The version from the Tim White Sessions is great!

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luqokiv3Ab0&list=RDluqokiv3Ab0#t=24
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: shangri la 1 on November 03, 2016, 09:44:39 PM
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGh0Vx2eYyo
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: schmonka on November 03, 2016, 10:10:21 PM
Get it back out on tour.....Im sure the whistle twins will add a heavy dose of Celtic schmooze.

There are actually quite a few from OES that would suit well today....this....and How Long, maybe it even YAYF - its a slow builder and MK could take things nice and steady on the Pensa.... 
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: Banjo99uk on November 04, 2016, 06:25:40 AM
I thought the Timothy White session version was way better than the final one. Its a classic case of MK trying less is more. Sometimes that works but for me on this occasion it failed. I think its why I prefer his music live. Its bigger and better normally.
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: Masiakasaurus on November 04, 2016, 09:11:10 AM
I agree about the lapsteel, it's brilliant!

Btw, I seem to remember Mark saying in an interview that he was sick when he recorded it and he didn't seem excited about it at all. Does this sound familiar to you? Then again, during those days he normally wasn't that cheerful.

I thought he said that about recording Fade to black.
That's possible  :think . I'll see if I can find the interview again.
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: Tobben on November 04, 2016, 09:46:05 AM
Get it back out on tour.....Im sure the whistle twins will add a heavy dose of Celtic schmooze.

There are actually quite a few from OES that would suit well today....this....and How Long, maybe it even YAYF - its a slow builder and MK could take things nice and steady on the Pensa....

Couldn't agree more ??👍
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: the visitor on November 04, 2016, 07:29:20 PM
There is also a version performed by Alan Clarks outfit which in my view is also tremendous and very haunting from around 2011. Look it up on YouTube if you can stomach it : great Chris White intro
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: Vesper on November 05, 2016, 12:50:12 PM
There is also a version performed by Alan Clarks outfit which in my view is also tremendous and very haunting from around 2011. Look it up on YouTube if you can stomach it : great Chris White intro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv_DLzyylcM

This one?
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: the visitor on November 05, 2016, 09:34:48 PM
That's the one. Nice arrangement to my ear
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: boriszhukov on June 03, 2023, 08:57:53 AM
Anybody knows what guitar Mark uses on the performance from Paris (YouTube clip posted earlier)?  Looks like a Taylor but I strongly doubt it would be…
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: 2manyguitars on June 03, 2023, 09:48:17 PM
Anybody knows what guitar Mark uses on the performance from Paris (YouTube clip posted earlier)?  Looks like a Taylor but I strongly doubt it would be…

Good question Boris, i 'd like to know too. After listening to the vid closely, some of the other better quality versions, and studying pixelated headstock images ;-) lol, if I had to guess I'd say it sounds very Martin like.

Anyone else want a turn on the speculationometer?  ;D
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: Jules on June 03, 2023, 11:26:41 PM
I think it's the Godine that Palmer uses for WOL.

I recall seeing pictures of Mk with that guitar

http://www.oneverybootleg.nl/MK_guitars_godin.htm
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: 2manyguitars on June 04, 2023, 12:08:22 AM
I think it's the Godine that Palmer uses for WOL.

I recall seeing pictures of Mk with that guitar

http://www.oneverybootleg.nl/MK_guitars_godin.htm

Too thin. The guitar is definitely a full body guitar. I'm sticking with my Martin guess!
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: quizzaciously on June 04, 2023, 12:54:30 AM
I think it's the Godine that Palmer uses for WOL.

I recall seeing pictures of Mk with that guitar

http://www.oneverybootleg.nl/MK_guitars_godin.htm

Too thin. The guitar is definitely a full body guitar. I'm sticking with my Martin guess!

With all due respect, what exactly one can use information about the guitar used in this song for? It's a simple strumming song, Mark can play it on everything that has strings, basically. It's not like it has a particularly magic sound to it or something. Was it the only acoustic guitar song in the set by the way? Apart from Romeo and Investigations.
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: Jules on June 04, 2023, 01:18:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucv3JIasPCQ

This?
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: cannibals on June 04, 2023, 07:14:02 PM
Anybody knows what guitar Mark uses on the performance from Paris (YouTube clip posted earlier)?  Looks like a Taylor but I strongly doubt it would be…

Ask Guy, he wil answer this one…
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: MK_live on June 04, 2023, 09:07:34 PM
See here; http://oneverybootleg.nl/MK_guitars_taylor.htm
Title: Re: Iron Hand : Battle of Orgreave
Post by: dustyvalentino on June 05, 2023, 10:27:52 AM
See here; http://oneverybootleg.nl/MK_guitars_taylor.htm

Yep, definitely not the Godin in the video, although I have a vague recollection in one of the guitar magazines of the day that MK tried the Godin for Iron Hand.