A Mark In Time

Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: shangri la 1 on July 25, 2009, 01:00:00 AM

Title: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: shangri la 1 on July 25, 2009, 01:00:00 AM
K2GC was unlistenable.  :-X

Came across this other forum discussion about "Get Lucky" and one poster states that K2GC was unlistenable.
 
http://www.imwan.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=50031

What do our members think? I know there has been a lot of discussion about MK's musical direction and more emphasis on his song writing/story telling and with folk and blues replacing more up tempo stuff, but "unlistenable"?  :-[
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Love Expresso on July 25, 2009, 07:56:28 AM
After having listened to KTGC about 200 times more or less I can report it IS VERY listenable! ;D
(Nearly two years since release - 100 weeks, at least two times a week - I think it could even be about 300 times...)

I admit when I first read the header of this new topic I thought you might refer to some technical aspect - and was alarmed! That the CD maybe stops
playing after the 350th time... ;D ;D

Just kidding.

But don
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: superval99 on July 25, 2009, 09:20:52 AM
Unlistenable!!!   I love it and keep finding new aspects springing out at me the more I listen.    :)  You can't please everyone though and the same will happen with "Get Lucky".
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Pottel on July 25, 2009, 10:01:55 AM
1st commandment, not the 11th.
1st and only...
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Tally on July 25, 2009, 01:42:31 PM
For me, the problem is not as simple as Mark not producing rock songs anymore. He has always written a lot of slow material. It's just that fewer and fewer of his songs really catch my attention these days, or are written in styles I don't enjoy. Some songs, like Secondary Waltz and Heart Full of Holes, sound like lullabies to me.

On KTGC, there are a handful of songs I really enjoy, primarily We Can Get Wild. In the Sky is great too.

I find that there are several aspects combined that make albums like SL and KTGC less interesting for me than some older stuff.

1. I find that all the storytelling songs have resulted in a loss of emotion and energy compared to more personal songs on, say, OES.
2. I generally prefer his finger-picking to his flat-picking.
3. The albums are too slow and lack groove.

Of course these factors are not absolute. I love the solo on Don't Know You're Born and I think Bonaparte is a great tune. But overall, Mark has gone in directions lately that have not been favourable to his music as far as I'm concerned. SL, for example, which is famous for having been recorded 'live' sounds incredibly dull to my ears. The live arrangements of Boom, Like That and Sonny Liston really showed what power these songs have. This is also true of Postcards, which benefited greatly from McCusker's flute and Danny's drumming. It sounds kind of flat on the album.
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: dustyvalentino on July 25, 2009, 03:16:57 PM
Well, opinions, as they say, are like arseholes...

It's certianly my least favourite MK album by some distance. I find In The Sky pretty much "unlistenable", in that I never listen to it. It think it's a terrible, awful, cheesy, boring song.

Just my opinion!
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: superval99 on July 25, 2009, 04:38:48 PM
Although Tallgren and myself have different opinions about KTGC, surprisingly "We Can Get Wild" and "In the Sky" are my favourites from the album too!   :)  Oh and "TLWNF" but I prefer hearing it live.   ;)
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: knopfling on July 25, 2009, 08:14:46 PM
K2GC is not my favorite MK album, but it's not my least favorite, either.
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Pottel on July 25, 2009, 11:52:48 PM
same here
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Pottel on July 26, 2009, 02:20:34 AM
same for the first part i mean, as it is my least favorite solo album
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: superval99 on July 26, 2009, 09:54:40 AM
I'm a bit like knopfling - it is not my favourite MK album, but not my least favourite.  I do love it, though.   :)
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Fletch on July 26, 2009, 01:37:09 PM
I hope i don`t offend, but i find a few the tracks on OES boring and cheesy too. My Parties is terrible. Heavy Fuel has that god awful middle 8 "..i love the chicks..." bit that ruins the song for me. I think Iron Hand is a tad dull? I hardly ever play OES, the stand out track i`d say is Planet Of New Orleans.

I really appreciate the advice given to me on this forum regarding what solo work to buy, I love all the recommendations... Don`t You Get It, You Don`t Know Your Born, Summer Of Love etc.....

It sort of urks me that there will be a deluxe box set of Get Lucky but no one can be bothered releasing a top quality deluxe DVD of Alchemy!

There i`ve said it!!!  :) What were we talking about?
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Fletch on July 26, 2009, 01:45:57 PM
Having just re-read my above post i think Mark was talking to me when he sang,
"Don`t You Get It, I don`t wanna live dream your dream?"
 ;D

Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Ian Lewis on July 26, 2009, 07:30:33 PM
I must be the odd one out then!  Don't get me wrong, I dont't think KTGC is MKs best work, but I have no difficulty listening from start to finish.

The thing that annoys me alittle is people saying MK could do better just because THEY don't  like it. I think we have to accept the direction MK wishes to go. If you don't like it don't listen to it! 

Do people really expect Get Lucky to rock the world?  If you do I think you might be disappointed.

Why does MK not play TOL?  Because he doesn't want to.  Why does MK not make more up tempo songs?  Because he doesn't want to!  I think MK has earned the right to make the music he wants to make, even if it doesn't sell!
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Fletch on July 26, 2009, 10:47:32 PM
Having just re-read my above post i think Mark was talking to me when he sang,
"Don`t You Get It, I don`t wanna dream your dream?"
 ;D


Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Pottel on July 27, 2009, 09:16:08 AM
mmm, just realised that it does make a difference when you listen to something before writing an opinion.
 i do like chunks of KTGC a lot...
true love for me is an instant classic.
heart of gold is top as is madame geneva and Punish...
it just misses a "complete feeling" like ragpicker had, or golden heart...
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: ds1984 on July 27, 2009, 11:54:16 AM
I certainly wouldnot say unlistenable.

For my part this is just not the Mark Knopfler I like...
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: dustyvalentino on July 27, 2009, 01:23:32 PM
it just misses a "complete feeling" like ragpicker had, or golden heart...

Interesting you say that, because even though I don't like KTGC, I do think it sounds "complete" as an album. Whereas both RPD and STP sound more like a collection of songs because all the styles are so varied.
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: IrisRose on July 30, 2009, 05:39:37 AM
I love KTGC, especially Madame Geneva and We Can Get Wild.   But as a favorite:  Ragpicker's Dream, with Golden Heart a close second.   Sacrilege here:   I don't like Imelda and Rudiger.  The songs are brilliant, but I don't like the people they portray.  Imelda was a horrid person and Rudiger--the person-- was both pitiable and sinister.    But Golden Heart and Darling Pretty more than make up for them.   I can never speak of technicalities of the music, because I'm not a musician.   Well, I used to plunk on the piano, but that was years ago.   And I've forgotten all my theory.     I could never even imagine KTGC as 'unlistenable.'     
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: goldenheart96 on July 30, 2009, 12:25:51 PM
I like KTGC although I have a problem with MK's excessive use of the whammy bar on that album. I don't like that Hank Marvin sound, just like I don't like the sound of a wailing pedal steel guitar. I always have to stop the "On The Night" version of "Walk Of Life" after Mark says, "Best pedal steel player in the world, Paul Franklin". Not that I generally hate pedal steel guitar sound, I just don't like it if it sounds too much like a country music clich
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: superval99 on July 30, 2009, 12:30:35 PM
I, on the otherhand listen to TLWNF (live versions) every day, because I LOVE it!   :D  Just goes to show you can't please all of the people....!     ;)
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Pottel on July 30, 2009, 01:02:35 PM
nope, r
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: ingridswing on July 30, 2009, 01:22:46 PM
And opposite to Goldenheart I love pedal steel very much and I really wish Mark invite Paul Franklin again for a tour!
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Waterline Man on July 30, 2009, 02:39:44 PM
And opposite to Goldenheart I love pedal steel very much and I really wish Mark invite Paul Franklin again for a tour!

Didnt he have some ear problems that prevented him from doing a lot of flying & basically ruled him out of tours????
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: superval99 on July 30, 2009, 02:40:44 PM
I think that was Jim Cox.
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Rollergirl on July 30, 2009, 05:26:06 PM
Not my favourite but my mum loves it!

And it's very listenable IMO
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Love Expresso on July 30, 2009, 06:26:20 PM
Hey Rollergirl,

funny enough this was the first MK CD I was NOT carrying to my sister and mother who were always in for MK - and when they heard the CD by the way
nearly half a year after release, they asked me: Hey, what
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: schmonka on July 30, 2009, 06:38:07 PM
IMHO KTGC has some pretty flakey tracks on it - True Love Will Never Fade - is a bit pants as is The Fizzy and the Still

BUT it also has some real corkers - things like Punish the Monkey, We Can Get Wild (you can really picture the era mark was trying to create with the words and tune) and Heart Full of Holes - is another great song - that really provides you with an 'iamge' - i think Mark's ability to write songs that give off era's are becoming more frequent with the most recent releases.  

I do love the Paul Franlin Pedal Steel sound - but it has to be in the right context.  "The best Steel Player in the word" is reached and WOL is skipped - in that context it annoys me - BUT in You and Your Friend - it was a different type of pedal sound sound that made that track!  I also think Jerry Douglas is very talented as what he does - but that 'country' sound as i said has to be in the right context - Hillbillies and some solo stuff yes - When your trying to create a bygone sound and image and trying to sound more like Hank than Hank does - then i cant see that sound working - anyway - wouldnt either Richard or Guy provide all of Mark's potential Lap/Pedel Steel requirements?? ;)

Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: dustyvalentino on July 31, 2009, 11:20:37 AM
IMHO KTGC has some pretty flakey tracks on it - True Love Will Never Fade - is a bit pants as is The Fizzy and the Still

Just goes to show, we all have different views, Fizzy and the Still is, along with Scaffolder's Wife, one of the two really great tracks on the album.

I do love the Paul Franlin Pedal Steel sound - but it has to be in the right context.  "The best Steel Player in the word" is reached and WOL is skipped - in that context it annoys me - BUT in You and Your Friend - it was a different type of pedal sound sound that made that track!  I also think Jerry Douglas is very talented as what he does - but that 'country' sound as i said has to be in the right context - Hillbillies and some solo stuff yes - When your trying to create a bygone sound and image and trying to sound more like Hank than Hank does - then i cant see that sound working - anyway - wouldnt either Richard or Guy provide all of Mark's potential Lap/Pedel Steel requirements?? ;)

On YAYF, Paul Franklin is playing a "ped-Dobro", a specially built pedal version of the Dobro type guitar that Jerry Douglas is famous for playing. Richard and Guy can do a dobro type "lap" steel, but not a full pedal steel, that's a different beast that has a whole load of pedals to control bends and volume swells.
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: schmonka on July 31, 2009, 11:32:20 AM
Agreed - I recall reading an article on Paul some years ago in it was explained the Pedabro - A.K.A The Box (I think??) was designed by Paul's father.  This sits on a 4 legged frame as opposed to the standing up instrument and style used by Jerry Douglas.  Your right though - Lap steel I think Guy or Richard would have a fighting chance of accomplishing - but full on Pedal Steel with its necessary Pedal Action- now that
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Best Brown Baggies on August 01, 2009, 11:19:26 PM
Love them all, but IF i had to pick a clear winner, it would definately be KTGC.
I would be VERY happy if GL continued in the same vein.

Cheers   BBB
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Mossguitar on August 02, 2009, 10:47:00 PM
I don't think K2GC is any worse than any of the other albums of MK. I just can't stand Punish the monkey, but think The scaffoldes wife and the fizzy and the still are classics. I also love Heart Full Of Holes and In the sky. True Love Will Never fade is ok, but it's a Springsteen rip off (Dry Lightning from The Ghost Of Tom Joad).

I love the way MK's music has evolved throughout his carriere. But I never listen to MK if I feel for rock or other music with punch. There's so much other music out there. And if I want that old DS feel, I put on some DS.

 ;)
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: dustyvalentino on August 02, 2009, 11:29:11 PM
Welcome Moss, nice to have you with us. :)

Good to see so many of our old friends have made it over here.
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Mossguitar on August 03, 2009, 08:17:33 PM
Thank you, Dusty! Nice to be here! And nice to see you all again. I wondered where you all went, and then I found you here. Feels a bit like the old days on the MK News fan forum :)

Morten
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: superval99 on August 03, 2009, 08:25:16 PM
Nice to see you with us again, Morten!   :)
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: pjh3121 on August 10, 2009, 12:54:05 AM
I think Scaffolders Wife is one of the best things he's ever done and the vivid imagery in the song is great - but maybe you have to be English to really appreciate it. Northern Sky is beautiful too.

As for the rest of it, it's very well crafted but the overall effect is 'pleasant' and er....that's about it. There wasn't nearly enough lead guitar on it (with the possible exception of Scaffolders Wife). A lot of the tracks on there remind me of the sort of thing you'd get on the soundtrack to ITV's Heartbeat, largely because of the horribly dated Hank Marvin sound.
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: dustyvalentino on August 10, 2009, 10:54:22 AM
I think Scaffolders Wife is one of the best things he's ever done and the vivid imagery in the song is great - but maybe you have to be English to really appreciate it. Northern Sky is beautiful too.

No, I'm Scottish and I really appreciate it too. :)

Seriously, we have scaffolders and their wives here as well and I can really picture her, I've known a lot of people just like that. In fact, I can also picture the scaffolder himself in my head.
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: pjh3121 on August 10, 2009, 11:50:55 AM
I think Scaffolders Wife is one of the best things he's ever done and the vivid imagery in the song is great - but maybe you have to be English to really appreciate it. Northern Sky is beautiful too.

No, I'm Scottish and I really appreciate it too. :)

Seriously, we have scaffolders and their wives here as well and I can really picture her, I've known a lot of people just like that. In fact, I can also picture the scaffolder himself in my head.

Yep, sorry. Should have said British.  :)

But, primarily, when I think of this song I think of Essex, for some reason...
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: dustyvalentino on August 10, 2009, 12:33:08 PM
Yep, sorry. Should have said British.  :)

But, primarily, when I think of this song I think of Essex, for some reason...

Yeah, I can see her as being from Essex as well, but really you get people like that all over Britain. Very good song, probably my fave from KTGC, between that and Fizzy and the Still.
Title: Re: K2GC - unlistenable
Post by: Pottel on August 10, 2009, 12:55:35 PM
mine must be so far from the clyde
but tis can change within seconds