Post by: Knopflerado on November 12, 2018, 07:33:33 PM
https://www.mittelbayerische.de/kultur/musik/kritik/mark-knopfler-down-the-road-wherever-21927-art1718272.html
DTRW gets an excellent rating, concluding with "a great album from the hands of a great musician. Rating: Masterpiece"
I'll be back with an english translation in an hour ...
Post by: Robson on November 12, 2018, 07:45:05 PM
:thumbsup
Post by: Zeraschkulidar on November 12, 2018, 07:52:40 PM
But i wonder how many different types of the album's name i read before. Here they title it "Down the Road Forever" within in the text. Somewhere else i have seen "Down the Road Whenever". There were some more pity mistakes i can hardly remember...it can't be that hard to get the title right one is writing about...<imagine rolling eyes here>
Post by: superval99 on November 12, 2018, 07:57:59 PM
Very nice review!
But i wonder how many different types of the album's name i read before. Here they title it "Down the Road Forever" within in the text. Somewhere else i have seen "Down the Road Whenever". There were some more pity mistakes i can hardly remember...it can't be that hard to get the title right one is writing about...<imagine rolling eyes here>
How about "Down the Road Whatever"! ;D
Post by: hunter on November 12, 2018, 08:02:39 PM
I just discovered the first pure german-speaking Album review/critic.
https://www.mittelbayerische.de/kultur/musik/kritik/mark-knopfler-down-the-road-wherever-21927-art1718272.html
DTRW gets an excellent rating, concluding with "a great album from the hands of a great musician. Rating: Masterpiece"
I'll be back with an english translation in an hour ...
There is a separate thread for reviews. Could you post it there?
Post by: Knopflerfan on November 12, 2018, 08:05:31 PM
Very nice review!
But i wonder how many different types of the album's name i read before. Here they title it "Down the Road Forever" within in the text. Somewhere else i have seen "Down the Road Whenever". There were some more pity mistakes i can hardly remember...it can't be that hard to get the title right one is writing about...<imagine rolling eyes here>
How about "Down the Road Whatever"! ;D
:smack :smack :lol :lol
Post by: vr46mk on November 12, 2018, 08:22:22 PM
Very nice review!
But i wonder how many different types of the album's name i read before. Here they title it "Down the Road Forever" within in the text. Somewhere else i have seen "Down the Road Whenever". There were some more pity mistakes i can hardly remember...it can't be that hard to get the title right one is writing about...<imagine rolling eyes here>
How about "Down the Road Whatever"! ;D
:smack :smack :lol :lol
Or as I said during the Fair Admission process when things were just so unclearly explained and left a lot of questions for all of us:
Down The Confusing Unclear Road Whatever Wherever ;D
Post by: quizzaciously on November 12, 2018, 08:43:47 PM
I just discovered the first pure german-speaking Album review/critic.
https://www.mittelbayerische.de/kultur/musik/kritik/mark-knopfler-down-the-road-wherever-21927-art1718272.html
DTRW gets an excellent rating, concluding with "a great album from the hands of a great musician. Rating: Masterpiece"
I'll be back with an english translation in an hour ...
So they don't even know the name of the album and call it a masterpiece? Why stop it there, call it magnum opus or chef-d’œuvre :lol
Post by: Robson on November 12, 2018, 08:48:31 PM
I just discovered the first pure german-speaking Album review/critic.
https://www.mittelbayerische.de/kultur/musik/kritik/mark-knopfler-down-the-road-wherever-21927-art1718272.html
DTRW gets an excellent rating, concluding with "a great album from the hands of a great musician. Rating: Masterpiece"
I'll be back with an english translation in an hour ...
So they don't even know the name of the album and call it a masterpiece? Why stop it there, call it magnum opus or chef-d’œuvre :lol
Please. This is just a small mistake.
But I understand. This is an extremely different review than your feelings:)
Post by: vr46mk on November 12, 2018, 08:50:40 PM
I just discovered the first pure german-speaking Album review/critic.
https://www.mittelbayerische.de/kultur/musik/kritik/mark-knopfler-down-the-road-wherever-21927-art1718272.html
DTRW gets an excellent rating, concluding with "a great album from the hands of a great musician. Rating: Masterpiece"
I'll be back with an english translation in an hour ...
So they don't even know the name of the album and call it a masterpiece? Why stop it there, call it magnum opus or chef-d’œuvre :lol
Haha, of course here we go again..
Have you said anything POSITIVE about this new album?
Will you even attend any of the concerts next year? :hmm
Post by: quizzaciously on November 12, 2018, 08:56:17 PM
You know, Bob Dylan has an album called "Masterpieces": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpieces_(Bob_Dylan_album) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpieces_(Bob_Dylan_album))
Don't you think it's a little bit too much of a word? I don't even talk about the album itself, just one single word.
Also, I like to be the most hated AMIT member of all times :thumbsdown :lol
From now on I will continue to troll you all just for the fun of it.
Post by: dmg on November 12, 2018, 09:01:51 PM
But it's really funny. No negativity intended. Here goes the album "Down The Road Whatever", it's a masterpiece!
You know, Bob Dylan has an album called "Masterpieces": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpieces_(Bob_Dylan_album) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpieces_(Bob_Dylan_album))
Don't you think it's a little bit too much of a word? I don't even talk about the album itself, just one single word.
Also, I like to be the most hated AMIT member of all times :thumbsdown :lol
I think that was me during the Tracker tour when I was critical of his performances and setlists. Don't worry, it can all turn around! ;)
Post by: Knopflerado on November 12, 2018, 09:02:35 PM
MARK KNOPFLER – DOWN THE ROAD WHEREVER
It almost seems as if nothing in this world could upset this man. Sitting relaxed on his motorcycle, getting inspired by Britain's nature and then entering the studio to form his impressions and passing thoughts on the fly to great songs. The image, conveyed by the video clip for the first single "Good on you Son", is not deceptive: "Down the road forever" is the next stroke of genius by Mark Knopfler.
You'll hardly discover Mark Knopfler in melodramatic newspaper headlines or talent show juries, according to a biography of the guitarist, singer and composer, who has left behind the celebrity life in the spotlight long ago. This kind of life no (longer) fits to the former head of the dire straits, who is very successful as a solo-artist since "Golden Heart" (1996).
Regardless of the high chart positions Mark Knopfler is undoubtedly one of the most important rock musicians. His playing skills are as distinctive as his voice. You expect much, when Knopfler releases a new album, and on "Down the road wherever" you get much:
Accomplished songwriting jewels, presented in the distinctive Knopfler-style.
The ninth solo-output, once more emerged with long-term companion Guy Fletcher, accelerates quickly. After an experienced-rocking kick-off ("Trapper man") "Back On The Dance Floor" is sneaking up from behind with an outrageously catchy refrain. Bit of 80's flair is around - the image of the go-getting star of the past, in terms of fashion slightly disoriented and musically revolutionary, is popping up now and then in the course of the album. Like a mischievous boy, reflected in the eyes of the wise, older man, giving himself modestly.
"My whistle under the archways still echoes down the street and all the way back to Deptford days": Of course, the mention of the place of establishment of “dire straits” breathes nostalgia. The corresponding song is significantly called "One song at a time". You inevitably bob up and down from the first chords, devote yourself to the Knopfler-style seduction-procedure of emotional depth and delicately smoothed melodies and listen spellbound to his story - immediately noticing: He still can do it. Like no other.
Major highlights include again the ballads - getting directly under your skin: "When You Leave" is nothing less than one of the most beautiful love songs of the year. "Slow Learner" appears like a muted statement against the seemingly uncontrollable present-time fast pace. "Matchstick man" deals with an apparently clichéd topic (lone musician at Christmas) in such a wonderful way, that you find yourself remaining delightfully in silence after the end of the song.
A great album. From the hands of a great musician.
Rating: Masterpiece
Teleschau - media service
Post by: Love Expresso on November 12, 2018, 09:03:52 PM
LE
Post by: dmg on November 12, 2018, 09:09:35 PM
Post by: holaknopfler on November 12, 2018, 09:14:17 PM
But it's really funny. No negativity intended. Here goes the album "Down The Road Whatever", it's a masterpiece!
You know, Bob Dylan has an album called "Masterpieces": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpieces_(Bob_Dylan_album) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpieces_(Bob_Dylan_album))
Don't you think it's a little bit too much of a word? I don't even talk about the album itself, just one single word.
Also, I like to be the most hated AMIT member of all times :thumbsdown :lol
I think that was me during the Tracker tour when I was critical of his performances and setlists. Don't worry, it can all turn around! ;)
Oh is that so DMG?? ;D Well you might want tot sit down for this..
Joking of course.
It always amazes me that journalists review an album and don't even manage to get the title correct.
Post by: quizzaciously on November 12, 2018, 09:16:23 PM
Written by a fan obviously. Or wait... :hmm
LE
"Stroke of genius" :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Excuse me, I just can't stop laughing. I don't hate the album, I love it actually. But this review is like a morning radio show — everyone's happy, there's sunshine and love around, Mark Knopfler gives the world his stroke of genius, everything's amazing and the author is the happiest man in the world.
See, that's what I'm talking about. Too much praise is as good as the two words review using curse words.
Post by: Knopflerado on November 12, 2018, 09:17:33 PM
Post by: quizzaciously on November 12, 2018, 09:39:24 PM
It's only a typo - the album-title is written correctly twice within the article ...
You quickly forget about this typo because later on you're getting dazzled by the intense overwhelming sun-like positivity of the reviewer and his review. In fact I can hardly type on my laptop, because I still can barely see after such an experienced and detailed analysis. Nothing and nobody can upset this guy, not even Chuck Norris.
Post by: dustyvalentino on November 12, 2018, 09:49:45 PM
I'm looking forward to the album but does anyone expect it to be MK's masterpiece?
Post by: Love Expresso on November 12, 2018, 09:50:04 PM
LE
Post by: Robson on November 12, 2018, 09:53:57 PM
Why not ? :)
Post by: Robson on November 12, 2018, 09:54:47 PM
It's only a typo - the album-title is written correctly twice within the article ...
You quickly forget about this typo because later on you're getting dazzled by the intense overwhelming sun-like positivity of the reviewer and his review. In fact I can hardly type on my laptop, because I still can barely see after such an experienced and detailed analysis. Nothing and nobody can upset this guy, not even Chuck Norris.
With more joy I read positive reviews than whining. A different point of view than our own will always annoy us :)
Post by: Love Expresso on November 12, 2018, 10:00:50 PM
I'm looking forward to the album but does anyone expect it to be MK's masterpiece?
Why not ? :)
Because he is in the last part of his career since around 2012 or so when it became pretty obvious that quantity was trying to replace quality.and he started to "clean up". We tend to close our eyes but it's as it is. Masterpiece? Sailing To Philadelphia. Many other great albums and many might love others more, but that one will it be - solo. Sad that generally it will be Brothers In Arms. History tells us.
LE
Post by: quizzaciously on November 12, 2018, 10:11:53 PM
I'm looking forward to the album but does anyone expect it to be MK's masterpiece?
Why not ? :)
Because he is in the last part of his career since around 2012 or so when it became pretty obvious that quantity was trying to replace quality.and he started to "clean up". We tend to close our eyes but it's as it is. Masterpiece? Sailing To Philadelphia. Many other great albums and many might love others more, but that one will it be - solo. Sad that generally it will be Brothers In Arms. History tells us.
LE
I'd like to ask Mark this question so much. He brags in pretty much every interview that he writes today more than he would ever write in his life, because clocks is ticking. I get that, but why one should diminish the quality only to gain so many songs? As one of our Russian songwriters said, "to write 1 good song you have to write 100 bad ones". And seems like Mark instead of carefully choosing the songs just puts on table everything he has.
Post by: Eddie Fox on November 12, 2018, 10:26:07 PM
I'm looking forward to the album but does anyone expect it to be MK's masterpiece?
Why not ? :)
Because he is in the last part of his career since around 2012 or so when it became pretty obvious that quantity was trying to replace quality.and he started to "clean up". We tend to close our eyes but it's as it is. Masterpiece? Sailing To Philadelphia. Many other great albums and many might love others more, but that one will it be - solo. Sad that generally it will be Brothers In Arms. History tells us.
LE
I'd like to ask Mark this question so much. He brags in pretty much every interview that he writes today more than he would ever write in his life, because clocks is ticking. I get that, but why one should diminish the quality only to gain so many songs? As one of our Russian songwriters said, "to write 1 good song you have to write 100 bad ones". And seems like Mark instead of carefully choosing the songs just puts on table everything he has.
But then it’s just your opinion. I don’t see it that way, quite the opposite actually since I like very much almost every song from this album. Perhaps you’d have chosen other songs Mark had at his disposal if it was up to you to do so but he had other things in mind and whether you like it or not most people are happy with his choices.
Post by: Knopflerfan on November 12, 2018, 10:27:15 PM
I'm looking forward to the album but does anyone expect it to be MK's masterpiece?
Why not ? :)
Because he is in the last part of his career since around 2012 or so when it became pretty obvious that quantity was trying to replace quality.and he started to "clean up". We tend to close our eyes but it's as it is. Masterpiece? Sailing To Philadelphia. Many other great albums and many might love others more, but that one will it be - solo. Sad that generally it will be Brothers In Arms. History tells us.
LE
I'd like to ask Mark this question so much. He brags in pretty much every interview that he writes today more than he would ever write in his life, because clocks is ticking. I get that, but why one should diminish the quality only to gain so many songs? As one of our Russian songwriters said, "to write 1 good song you have to write 100 bad ones". And seems like Mark instead of carefully choosing the songs just puts on table everything he has.
Au Contraire, personally I think this album is full of quality (writing & music) and so far in I can't really find a bad song/tune...
This Album is a very personal album probably the most personal to date in fact.
I remember MK talking about how he had approx 80 songs/words on his laptop that he had that would one day spring to life - Think he spoke about that when I saw him at Chalke Valley..
Post by: Knopflerfan on November 12, 2018, 10:30:05 PM
I'm looking forward to the album but does anyone expect it to be MK's masterpiece?
Why not ? :)
Because he is in the last part of his career since around 2012 or so when it became pretty obvious that quantity was trying to replace quality.and he started to "clean up". We tend to close our eyes but it's as it is. Masterpiece? Sailing To Philadelphia. Many other great albums and many might love others more, but that one will it be - solo. Sad that generally it will be Brothers In Arms. History tells us.
LE
I'd like to ask Mark this question so much. He brags in pretty much every interview that he writes today more than he would ever write in his life, because clocks is ticking. I get that, but why one should diminish the quality only to gain so many songs? As one of our Russian songwriters said, "to write 1 good song you have to write 100 bad ones". And seems like Mark instead of carefully choosing the songs just puts on table everything he has.
But then it’s just your opinion. I don’t see it that way, quite the opposite actually since I like very much almost every song from this album. Perhaps you’d have chosen other songs Mark had at his disposal if it was up to you to do so but he had other things in mind and whether you like it or not most people are happy with his choices.
+1 :thumbsup :wave
Post by: Robson on November 12, 2018, 10:32:14 PM
I'm looking forward to the album but does anyone expect it to be MK's masterpiece?
Why not ? :)
Because he is in the last part of his career since around 2012 or so when it became pretty obvious that quantity was trying to replace quality.and he started to "clean up". We tend to close our eyes but it's as it is. Masterpiece? Sailing To Philadelphia. Many other great albums and many might love others more, but that one will it be - solo. Sad that generally it will be Brothers In Arms. History tells us.
LE
I'd like to ask Mark this question so much. He brags in pretty much every interview that he writes today more than he would ever write in his life, because clocks is ticking. I get that, but why one should diminish the quality only to gain so many songs? As one of our Russian songwriters said, "to write 1 good song you have to write 100 bad ones". And seems like Mark instead of carefully choosing the songs just puts on table everything he has.
But then it’s just your opinion. I don’t see it that way, quite the opposite actually since I like very much almost every song from this album. Perhaps you’d have chosen other songs Mark had at his disposal if it was up to you to do so but he had other things in mind and whether you like it or not most people are happy with his choices.
:thumbsup
Post by: quizzaciously on November 12, 2018, 10:44:36 PM
But then it’s just your opinion. I don’t see it that way, quite the opposite actually since I like very much almost every song from this album. Perhaps you’d have chosen other songs Mark had at his disposal if it was up to you to do so but he had other things in mind and whether you like it or not most people are happy with his choices.
So you literally like everything? Every song? How could it be? I feel very happy for you, because I can't say so about all the new ones.
I consider myself a pretty hardcore fan in that respect, I even teach Mark's songs on YouTube, because I think he has almost no skippers, and it's the only artist you can actually analyse most of his songs. Not Paul Simon, not Paul McCartney, not even Bob Dylan. But for some songs from the new album I don't even know what to analyse and what to say, I'm stunned. It's the kind of songs you can ask Mark "Do you have something else?" as he used to joke in interviews. But now there's no time for jokes it seems. It gets serious.
I know it's only my opinion, but if the song's purpose is pure entertainment (like Nobody Does That or Trapper Man) I can't seriously call it a great song. Yes, it attracts people and good for radio maybe, but is it what we love MK for? As LE said, would you recommend Trapper Man to a friend to showcase Mark's outstanding songwriting craft? I'm certainly not going to do that.
Post by: 2manyguitars on November 12, 2018, 10:59:29 PM
Post by: hunter on November 12, 2018, 11:02:45 PM
I know it's only my opinion, but if the song's purpose is pure entertainment (like Nobody Does That or Trapper Man) I can't seriously call it a great song.
Oh, please. Mark has several great songs that are pure entertainment. I'd even say very few of his songs, great and not so great, are not pure entertainment.
Post by: Love Expresso on November 12, 2018, 11:08:00 PM
This is an example to show what I mean. I have this feeling with many of the new material. Quizzaciously had a similiar theory about Just A Boy and that it started backwards from the melody of YNWA.
Not one single song so far touched me the described way. Maybe One Song At A Time and Drover's Road. The rest to me seems ... superficial and flat.
Get Lucky is full of songs that, every single one, compared to all these new ones, really appeal to me as "masterpieces" apart from You Can't Beat The House.
This is no moaning by the way. This is observation after 33 years of being Hardcore MK fan on a daily base. One must be allowed to say that his work loses quality more and more.
Maybe I will be surprised by the Local Hero thing, something I have absolutely no interest in. Maybe those songs are better. I don't know.
LE
Post by: quizzaciously on November 12, 2018, 11:12:41 PM
Basil and Laugh & Jokes touched me very emotional, Heart of Oak did or Get Lucky. I have the feeling these songs needed a long time to mature which gave them depth and quality. Nowadays I often think that he too easy makes simple ideas into songs. One word, three notes in a row that sound good and make an idea, and there you go, a song is written. I imagine the melody line in Nobody's Child.. "to ramble wild" was the first idea. The idea is there, the picture, desert, sad, and in no time Mark creates this song. Without any depth. Without maturation. Because that's what he does all day. Like a habit.
This is an example to show what I mean. I have this feeling with many of the new material. Quizzaciously had a similiar theory about Just A Boy and that it started backwards from the melody of YNWA.
Not one single song so far touched me the described way. Maybe One Song At A Time and Drover's Road. The rest to me seems ... superficial and flat.
Get Lucky is full of songs that, every single one, compared to all these new ones, really appeal to me as "masterpieces" apart from You Can't Beat The House.
This is no moaning by the way. This is observation after 33 years of being Hardcore MK fan on a daily base. One must be allowed to say that his work loses quality more and more.
Maybe I will be surprised by the Local Hero thing, something I have absolutely no interest in. Maybe those songs are better. I don't know.
LE
Yes, oh yes. The feeling that the song took 1 hour to write is the theme for this album. It's very hard to describe the "flatness" :(
The most controversial Mark's album for sure — absolute praise on the one side and complete frustration on the other. Go figure.
* Half of the album, yes. But I honestly don't think something will drastically change after the big day.
Post by: 2manyguitars on November 12, 2018, 11:16:39 PM
Post by: Love Expresso on November 12, 2018, 11:19:15 PM
LE
Post by: 2manyguitars on November 12, 2018, 11:23:17 PM
Of course we don't know that's why I called it a theory. It was used to describe the feeling the new songs gave me. I know for sure that it took them three years to make this album. My expectations were high.
LE
Yes but even saying it sounds like it was written in 5 minutes on the back of a matchbox is slightly disrespectful don't you think? why not just say it sounds flat, or I don't like it, rather than implying some sort of laziness on behalf of the artist? Its a little bit unfair in my eyes....
No disrespect meant!....lol
Post by: Knopflerfan on November 12, 2018, 11:29:08 PM
Basil and Laugh & Jokes touched me very emotional, Heart of Oak did or Get Lucky. I have the feeling these songs needed a long time to mature which gave them depth and quality. Nowadays I often think that he too easy makes simple ideas into songs. One word, three notes in a row that sound good and make an idea, and there you go, a song is written. I imagine the melody line in Nobody's Child.. "to ramble wild" was the first idea. The idea is there, the picture, desert, sad, and in no time Mark creates this song. Without any depth. Without maturation. Because that's what he does all day. Like a habit.
This is an example to show what I mean. I have this feeling with many of the new material. Quizzaciously had a similiar theory about Just A Boy and that it started backwards from the melody of YNWA.
Not one single song so far touched me the described way. Maybe One Song At A Time and Drover's Road. The rest to me seems ... superficial and flat.
Get Lucky is full of songs that, every single one, compared to all these new ones, really appeal to me as "masterpieces" apart from You Can't Beat The House.
This is no moaning by the way. This is observation after 33 years of being Hardcore MK fan on a daily base. One must be allowed to say that his work loses quality more and more.
Maybe I will be surprised by the Local Hero thing, something I have absolutely no interest in. Maybe those songs are better. I don't know.
LE
Yes, oh yes. The feeling that the song took 1 hour to write is the theme for this album. It's very hard to describe the "flatness" :(
The most controversial Mark's album for sure — absolute praise on the one side and complete frustration on the other. Go figure.
* Half of the album, yes. But I honestly don't think something will drastically change after the big day.
Erm, How is this album controversial? Again not a lot of respect to MK forthcoming of note for this album..
Post by: hunter on November 12, 2018, 11:32:14 PM
Post by: quizzaciously on November 12, 2018, 11:32:54 PM
Guys, these are Huge assumptions about process without any evidence. How do you know how the songs were constructed? I know you don't like it and that's fine, but at least give some benefit of the doubt to the hard work that has gone into these new songs. Sometimes the best song can take 10 minutes to write, other times it can take years....
Thank you for asking good questions instead of just saying that we're fools and can't understand a thing like some people here do.
I dissect every Mark's song from a guitar player's perspective and while I transcribe the songs it gives me a chance to read all the lyrics as well and for instance notice the word "bro" in one of the songs among other things. All the little details. Not so little details — copy and paste. For some songs I literally just copy and paste most of the chords and that's it. It's very easy to transcribe the song, takes 5 minutes, it's easy to listen to it, takes 5 minutes, it's easy to understand it, takes 5 minutes. Too easy. And it's actually too easy to forget it completely.
This is what I call flatness of the song — it doesn't challenge you. Have an intro, repeat a little idea, then have one verse, second verse, chorus, have a solo, then third verse, got to have a middle section, that's fine. Finish with one other verse and loop the solo over the intro's harmony. That's the formula. I know as a fact that "Walk Of Life" was written by Mark very quickly. The song ended up being a hit, so sometimes it really works.
But from what I can see most of the songs from the new album are as easy as the song can be. So naturally you can come to the conclusion that it was written fast as well. But there's Mark's songs that are carefully crafted, many of songs like that and you can almost fell it took a very long time to write. And that's exactly the type of songs people are usually refer to as "masterpieces". No wonder why it happens, but certainly there's no too much "masterpieces" on the new album.
Post by: Eddie Fox on November 12, 2018, 11:38:54 PM
But then it’s just your opinion. I don’t see it that way, quite the opposite actually since I like very much almost every song from this album. Perhaps you’d have chosen other songs Mark had at his disposal if it was up to you to do so but he had other things in mind and whether you like it or not most people are happy with his choices.
So you literally like everything? Every song? How could it be? I feel very happy for you, because I can't say so about all the new ones.
I consider myself a pretty hardcore fan in that respect, I even teach Mark's songs on YouTube, because I think he has almost no skippers, and it's the only artist you can actually analyse most of his songs. Not Paul Simon, not Paul McCartney, not even Bob Dylan. But for some songs from the new album I don't even know what to analyse and what to say, I'm stunned. It's the kind of songs you can ask Mark "Do you have something else?" as he used to joke in interviews. But now there's no time for jokes it seems. It gets serious.
I know it's only my opinion, but if the song's purpose is pure entertainment (like Nobody Does That or Trapper Man) I can't seriously call it a great song. Yes, it attracts people and good for radio maybe, but is it what we love MK for? As LE said, would you recommend Trapper Man to a friend to showcase Mark's outstanding songwriting craft? I'm certainly not going to do that.
Yes, I would, I love that song actually. Floating Away and Drover’s road not so much, so it’s not every song.
As I said before, I really don’t mind your ‘moaning’ (don’t think it’s moaning btw) but when you say Mark just threw a bunch of songs on the table and picked some of them randomly to record as if it was a fact it does start to bother me. You see, it probably took him quite sometime to decide which songs to work on and I’m sure he chose the ones he liked best so let’s respect it.
Again, I’m totally on your side when it comes to free speech but making those kinds of assumptions isn’t free speech, that’s belittling Mark’s and everyone else who likes the new album’s taste and that I do not support, I’m sorry.
Post by: Knopflerfan on November 12, 2018, 11:45:34 PM
But then it’s just your opinion. I don’t see it that way, quite the opposite actually since I like very much almost every song from this album. Perhaps you’d have chosen other songs Mark had at his disposal if it was up to you to do so but he had other things in mind and whether you like it or not most people are happy with his choices.
So you literally like everything? Every song? How could it be? I feel very happy for you, because I can't say so about all the new ones.
I consider myself a pretty hardcore fan in that respect, I even teach Mark's songs on YouTube, because I think he has almost no skippers, and it's the only artist you can actually analyse most of his songs. Not Paul Simon, not Paul McCartney, not even Bob Dylan. But for some songs from the new album I don't even know what to analyse and what to say, I'm stunned. It's the kind of songs you can ask Mark "Do you have something else?" as he used to joke in interviews. But now there's no time for jokes it seems. It gets serious.
I know it's only my opinion, but if the song's purpose is pure entertainment (like Nobody Does That or Trapper Man) I can't seriously call it a great song. Yes, it attracts people and good for radio maybe, but is it what we love MK for? As LE said, would you recommend Trapper Man to a friend to showcase Mark's outstanding songwriting craft? I'm certainly not going to do that.
Yes, I would, I love that song actually. Floating Away and Drover’s road not so much, so it’s not every song.
As I said before, I really don’t mind your ‘moaning’ (don’t think it’s moaning btw) but when you say Mark just threw a bunch of songs on the table and picked some of them randomly to record as if it was a fact it does start to bother me. You see, it probably took him quite sometime to decide which songs to work on and I’m sure he chose the ones he liked best so let’s respect it.
Again, I’m totally on your side when it comes to free speech but making those kinds of assumptions isn’t free speech, that’s belittling Mark’s and everyone else who likes the new album’s taste and that I do not support, I’m sorry.
100% agree with your comments Eddie.
Free speech I'm all for. At the end of the day we are all 'hardcore' MK fans on here (30+ years myself) - MK is a way of life for me, ask my wife and friends!!! so we will all have expectations etc and yes agreed some will like songs more than others but in all this particular album is really rather special.... The depth of some of the lyrics are deep and are up to the usual MK standard. We have had to explain some meanings for those that do not understand some of the lyrics because they are so clever....
Roll on Friday is all I can say.....
Respect each other
Post by: 2manyguitars on November 12, 2018, 11:48:52 PM
Guys, these are Huge assumptions about process without any evidence. How do you know how the songs were constructed? I know you don't like it and that's fine, but at least give some benefit of the doubt to the hard work that has gone into these new songs. Sometimes the best song can take 10 minutes to write, other times it can take years....
Thank you for asking good questions instead of just saying that we're fools and can't understand a thing like some people here do.
I dissect every Mark's song from a guitar player's perspective and while I transcribe the songs it gives me a chance to read all the lyrics as well and for instance notice the word "bro" in one of the songs among other things. All the little details. Not so little details — copy and paste. For some songs I literally just copy and paste most of the chords and that's it. It's very easy to transcribe the song, takes 5 minutes, it's easy to listen to it, takes 5 minutes, it's easy to understand it, takes 5 minutes. Too easy. And it's actually too easy to forget it completely.
This is what I call flatness of the song — it doesn't challenge you. Have an intro, repeat a little idea, then have one verse, second verse, chorus, have a solo, then third verse, got to have a middle section, that's fine. Finish with one other verse and loop the solo over the intro's harmony. That's the formula. I know as a fact that "Walk Of Life" was written by Mark very quickly. The song ended up being a hit, so sometimes it really works.
But from what I can see most of the songs from the new album are as easy as the song can be. So naturally you can come to the conclusion that it was written fast as well. But there's Mark's songs that are carefully crafted, many of songs like that and you can almost fell it took a very long time to write. And that's exactly the type of songs people are usually refer to as "masterpieces". No wonder why it happens, but certainly there's no too much "masterpieces" on the new album.
I don't disagree regarding the simplicity of much of the album we have heard so far, but you could argue that mark has been striving for this for years. Simple doesn't equal bad and speaking as a songwriter and music teacher myself I know that I can write something in 5 minutes that (dressed up with the right production and a half decent solo) can take on a life of its own for years to come...
The relationship between listener, artist, time, age, and circumstance is a fascinating one. Perhaps this is why we on here have such a hard time reconciling with the negative opinions.
Post by: Robson on November 12, 2018, 11:49:17 PM
Guys, these are Huge assumptions about process without any evidence. How do you know how the songs were constructed? I know you don't like it and that's fine, but at least give some benefit of the doubt to the hard work that has gone into these new songs. Sometimes the best song can take 10 minutes to write, other times it can take years....
Thank you for asking good questions instead of just saying that we're fools and can't understand a thing like some people here do.
I dissect every Mark's song from a guitar player's perspective and while I transcribe the songs it gives me a chance to read all the lyrics as well and for instance notice the word "bro" in one of the songs among other things. All the little details. Not so little details — copy and paste. For some songs I literally just copy and paste most of the chords and that's it. It's very easy to transcribe the song, takes 5 minutes, it's easy to listen to it, takes 5 minutes, it's easy to understand it, takes 5 minutes. Too easy. And it's actually too easy to forget it completely.
This is what I call flatness of the song — it doesn't challenge you. Have an intro, repeat a little idea, then have one verse, second verse, chorus, have a solo, then third verse, got to have a middle section, that's fine. Finish with one other verse and loop the solo over the intro's harmony. That's the formula. I know as a fact that "Walk Of Life" was written by Mark very quickly. The song ended up being a hit, so sometimes it really works.
But from what I can see most of the songs from the new album are as easy as the song can be. So naturally you can come to the conclusion that it was written fast as well. But there's Mark's songs that are carefully crafted, many of songs like that and you can almost fell it took a very long time to write. And that's exactly the type of songs people are usually refer to as "masterpieces". No wonder why it happens, but certainly there's no too much "masterpieces" on the new album.
You're a musician. You analyze a lot. Music is not mathematics. Let's wait another four days.
Post by: Love Expresso on November 12, 2018, 11:53:02 PM
Of course we don't know that's why I called it a theory. It was used to describe the feeling the new songs gave me. I know for sure that it took them three years to make this album. My expectations were high.
LE
Yes but even saying it sounds like it was written in 5 minutes on the back of a matchbox is slightly disrespectful don't you think? why not just say it sounds flat, or I don't like it, rather than implying some sort of laziness on behalf of the artist? Its a little bit unfair in my eyes....
No disrespect meant!....lol
Because it's exactly what I wanted to say. That it sounds AS IF most of the songs were written very much faster and without the same care or amount of time than on earlier albums. On the writing process. Guy obviously took immense effort in polishing them later. Speaking of polish...
And...
You are implying laziness, not me. I never spoke about laziness but a new approach to songwriting. The same with your 5 minute matchbox thing. Never said or meant that. I would call THAT unfair in a discussion.
LE
Post by: quizzaciously on November 12, 2018, 11:55:47 PM
You're a musician. You analyze a lot. Music is not mathematics. Let's wait another four days.
Oh man, you're hitting pretty hard topics there. Music IS actual mathematics and physics, and I don't want to write a whole project here to prove it. Better ask Brian May what he thinks about it. He usually says that in the ancient times there was literally no difference between music and science and scientist were the musicians and vice versa (as is Brian, he's a scientist). So this is a very sensitive topic for me, because yes, I analyse the songs deeply, almost scientifically.
Post by: Robson on November 12, 2018, 11:59:34 PM
You're a musician. You analyze a lot. Music is not mathematics. Let's wait another four days.
Oh man, you're hitting pretty hard topics there. Music IS actual mathematics and physics, and I don't want to write a whole project here to prove it. Better ask Brian May what he thinks about it. He usually says that in the ancient times there was literally no difference between music and science and scientist were the musicians and vice versa (as is Brian, he's a scientist). So this is a very sensitive topic for me, because yes, I analyse the songs deeply, almost scientifically.
For me it is not maths or numbers. It is a feeling, emotions. Only it is important. Good luck :wave
Post by: Love Expresso on November 13, 2018, 12:02:14 AM
LE
Post by: Robson on November 13, 2018, 12:06:19 AM
Post by: quizzaciously on November 13, 2018, 12:10:54 AM
Because it's exactly what I wanted to say. That it sounds AS IF most of the songs were written very much faster and without the same care or amount of time than on earlier albums. On the writing process. Guy obviously took immense effort in polishing them later. Speaking of polish...
And...
You are implying laziness, not me. I never spoke about laziness but a new approach to songwriting. The same with your 5 minute matchbox thing. Never said or meant that. I would call THAT unfair in a discussion.
LE
You made me think about something and I'll try the last way to express my personal "negative" thoughts (prepare the champagne folks).
Mark works with session musicians, right? I'm a hobby musician myself, but I've been on studio sessions and shows as a musician before and I can sort of put myself in Mark's musicians' shoes (at least for 1%, don't kill me ok). And some songs are just too boring for me as a musician honestly, and I bet not every musician Mark works with will praise ALL the songs they've played in. I can imagine some of them playing in some songs just doing what they was paid for and asked to play. I can imagine all them being extremely tired of playing Sultans each night.
So this is another way to put it. This is what this whole "do you have something else" line in the studio means. Of course I can play the changes, and maybe it's cool for people to hear, and maybe the songs has a killer production, which saves it ultimately, but it lacks something else.
You can say I want too much, and it's true. But somehow in the recent years Mark was able to fill this "too much" in, but not now :'(
Post by: hunter on November 13, 2018, 12:15:15 AM
Post by: Eddie Fox on November 13, 2018, 12:15:35 AM
Because it's exactly what I wanted to say. That it sounds AS IF most of the songs were written very much faster and without the same care or amount of time than on earlier albums. On the writing process. Guy obviously took immense effort in polishing them later. Speaking of polish...
And...
You are implying laziness, not me. I never spoke about laziness but a new approach to songwriting. The same with your 5 minute matchbox thing. Never said or meant that. I would call THAT unfair in a discussion.
LE
You made me think about something and I'll try the last way to express my personal "negative" thoughts (prepare the champagne folks).
Mark works with session musicians, right? I'm a hobby musician myself, but I've been on studio sessions and shows as a musician before and I can sort of put myself in Mark's musicians' shoes (at least for 1%, don't kill me ok). And some songs are just too boring for me as a musician honestly, and I bet not every musician Mark works with will praise ALL the songs they've played in. I can imagine some of them playing in some songs just doing what they was paid for and asked to play. I can imagine all them being extremely tired of playing Sultans each night.
So this is another way to put it. This is what this whole "do you have something else" line in the studio means. Of course I can play the changes, and maybe it's cool for people to hear, and maybe the songs has a killer production, which saves it ultimately, but it lacks something else.
You can say I want too much, and it's true. But somehow in the recent years Mark was able to fill this "too much" in, but not now :'(
Still an opinion rather than absolute truth - and that’s what you seem to be missing.
Post by: hunter on November 13, 2018, 12:21:59 AM
Because it's exactly what I wanted to say. That it sounds AS IF most of the songs were written very much faster and without the same care or amount of time than on earlier albums. On the writing process. Guy obviously took immense effort in polishing them later. Speaking of polish...
And...
You are implying laziness, not me. I never spoke about laziness but a new approach to songwriting. The same with your 5 minute matchbox thing. Never said or meant that. I would call THAT unfair in a discussion.
LE
You made me think about something and I'll try the last way to express my personal "negative" thoughts (prepare the champagne folks).
Mark works with session musicians, right? I'm a hobby musician myself, but I've been on studio sessions and shows as a musician before and I can sort of put myself in Mark's musicians' shoes (at least for 1%, don't kill me ok). And some songs are just too boring for me as a musician honestly, and I bet not every musician Mark works with will praise ALL the songs they've played in. I can imagine some of them playing in some songs just doing what they was paid for and asked to play. I can imagine all them being extremely tired of playing Sultans each night.
So this is another way to put it. This is what this whole "do you have something else" line in the studio means. Of course I can play the changes, and maybe it's cool for people to hear, and maybe the songs has a killer production, which saves it ultimately, but it lacks something else.
You can say I want too much, and it's true. But somehow in the recent years Mark was able to fill this "too much" in, but not now :'(
It's as simple as this: This album doesn't appeal to you. You don't like it. I could not stand Kill To Get Crimson when it came out (today I sort of like it, but not that much), so that album wasn't for me. Sad, because it was Mark, and I had high expectations. The new album doesn't work for you. That doesn't mean it's a bad album or that Mark has made an album of lower quality. He has made artistic choices that you don't care for, and that's all there is to it.
Post by: quizzaciously on November 13, 2018, 12:26:13 AM
Because it's exactly what I wanted to say. That it sounds AS IF most of the songs were written very much faster and without the same care or amount of time than on earlier albums. On the writing process. Guy obviously took immense effort in polishing them later. Speaking of polish...
And...
You are implying laziness, not me. I never spoke about laziness but a new approach to songwriting. The same with your 5 minute matchbox thing. Never said or meant that. I would call THAT unfair in a discussion.
LE
You made me think about something and I'll try the last way to express my personal "negative" thoughts (prepare the champagne folks).
Mark works with session musicians, right? I'm a hobby musician myself, but I've been on studio sessions and shows as a musician before and I can sort of put myself in Mark's musicians' shoes (at least for 1%, don't kill me ok). And some songs are just too boring for me as a musician honestly, and I bet not every musician Mark works with will praise ALL the songs they've played in. I can imagine some of them playing in some songs just doing what they was paid for and asked to play. I can imagine all them being extremely tired of playing Sultans each night.
So this is another way to put it. This is what this whole "do you have something else" line in the studio means. Of course I can play the changes, and maybe it's cool for people to hear, and maybe the songs has a killer production, which saves it ultimately, but it lacks something else.
You can say I want too much, and it's true. But somehow in the recent years Mark was able to fill this "too much" in, but not now :'(
Still an opinion rather than absolute truth - and that’s what you seem to be missing.
Strange thing to say, because nobody on this forum or even people who's working with Mark has an absolute truth. If you ask Guy every song is pure gold and every album is the best album ever, so you can say it's just an opinion, too. And don't think that Mark is 100% proud of all the new album and loves each song, you know that artists can often dislike their own work (but put it for sale nevertheless). Just my 5 cents.
Post by: quizzaciously on November 13, 2018, 12:38:04 AM
It's as simple as this: This album doesn't appeal to you. You don't like it. I could not stand Kill To Get Crimson when it came out (today I sort of like it, but not that much), so that album wasn't for me. Sad, because it was Mark, and I had high expectations. The new album doesn't work for you. That doesn't mean it's a bad album or that Mark has made an album of lower quality. He has made artistic choices that you don't care for, and that's all there is to it.
It's a very thin line unfortunately... I can't say I like Kill To Get Crimson much, and by the way this album was extremely experimental — half of it is played with a pick and half of it is filled with waltzes. It was veeeeeery different. And Down The Road Wherever is very different, because it leans more on the pop side of things. But playing with a pick or an abundance of waltzes is one thing and going pop is whole other thing. It's not just the question of taste, it's like going into whole other genre. All you want to say is — whoa, whoa, slow down, bro! And that's why so many people are pissed off and so many people praise the album at the same time.
But of course there's songs for everyone, there's even some jazz, so in the end even people like me will love some of the songs.
And so far on the more easy listening side we have an opening track, two singles and a couple of songs from the main album.
This is too much pop for me and that's why I'm pissed off. I'll end with this, so thanks everyone for an interesting discussion.
Post by: kaleo74 on November 13, 2018, 04:26:25 AM
Pavel, you are a great musician, technician, I follow you on YT, your renditions of Mark's songs and your finger picking are impressives, bravo.
Did you try or do you write songs ? As a guitar player myself, I know that writing poems, songs, music and mélodies is not given to everyone.
this album has destabilized you by its technical simplicity and I understand, but honestly, there are beautiful melodies, new sounds, funny lyrics, attempts here and there that only Mark can afford, remember, the man has nothing to prove to the world.
today, the man is tiered, don't expect from him to write pieces like TR, R&J or BiA, just relax and appreciate the moment, sooner or later, Mark will say good bye and we won't have anything anymore to discuss here, so lets enjoy the moment :)
Post by: Eddie Fox on November 13, 2018, 09:13:34 AM
“Simplicity is complex. It's never simple to keep things simple. Simple solutions require the most advanced thinking.” Richie Norton
Pavel, you are a great musician, technician, I follow you on YT, your renditions of Mark's songs and your finger picking are impressives, bravo.
Did you try or do you write songs ? As a guitar player myself, I know that writing poems, songs, music and mélodies is not given to everyone.
this album has destabilized you by its technical simplicity and I understand, but honestly, there are beautiful melodies, new sounds, funny lyrics, attempts here and there that only Mark can afford, remember, the man has nothing to prove to the world.
today, the man is tiered, don't expect from him to write pieces like TR, R&J or BiA, just relax and appreciate the moment, sooner or later, Mark will say good bye and we won't have anything anymore to discuss here, so lets enjoy the moment :)
Exactly. And since you brought that up, Telegraph Road is a pretty simple song in terms of chords and melodic structure, so there you go.
Post by: Pottel on November 13, 2018, 09:35:46 AM
But it's really funny. No negativity intended. Here goes the album "Down The Road Whatever", it's a masterpiece!You are not, by far.
You know, Bob Dylan has an album called "Masterpieces": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpieces_(Bob_Dylan_album) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpieces_(Bob_Dylan_album))
Don't you think it's a little bit too much of a word? I don't even talk about the album itself, just one single word.
Also, I like to be the most hated AMIT member of all times :thumbsdown
From now on I will continue to troll you all just for the fun of it.
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