A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Robson on October 17, 2020, 04:22:45 PM
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40 years ago...
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For many people is the best Mark's album too....
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He's great, but I don't understand Les Boys ;)
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Les Boys is a character piece like many others by him. It’s about drag dancing in a Munich bar. Nobody would bat an eyelid if it was about a female stripper.
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Yeah I know but Les Boys should be b-side :)
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I think it fits the making movies theme. Every song is about people acting out, striving to match what they yearn with what they need.
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Lyrically yes, but not musically. :)
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Yeah I know but Les Boys should be b-side :)
Absolutely, b-side would be fine.
Making Movies is one of my alltime favourite albums, especially TOL and R&J are masterpieces.
These songs never get old no matter how many times you have listened to them.
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Exactly. I love all the songs, a little less Les Boys :)
And my favorite line:
...Rollergirl don’t worry DJ play the movies all night long...
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Exactly. I love all the songs, a little less Les Boys :)
And my favorite line:
...Rollergirl don’t worry DJ play the movies all night long...
:o
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Rollergirl will always be Heather Graham.
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here is my chronicle :
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/making-movies-de-dire-straits-a-40-ans-aujourdhui/
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JF I read. Very interesting. But the beginning of 1890. Strong accent ;)
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JF I read. Very interesting. But the beginning of 1890. Strong accent ;)
:lol yes I fixed it ;D I must admit that at 01:30 am I was a little bit tired :D
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:thumbsup :)
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Hi all, this is my first post on here. I think this is a great album, which ranks as my second favourite DS album after Love Over Gold. I must admit I'm not a fan of Les Boys, which I agree would have been better as a B-side. I actually left it off the album in my music library as I think it really jars with the other six tracks, which otherwise flow very well (the only other drawback of note being the album's relatively short runtime). I especially love side one of the album, as Tunnel of Love (my personal favourite track on here), Romeo and Juliet and Skateaway are great songs individually but put together make one of the best album sides in rock.
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He's great, but I don't understand Les Boys ;)
Les Boys is one of the best songs on this record, really!
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It is. Expresso Love and Solid Rock are the lesser ones.
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It is. Expresso Love and Solid Rock are the lesser ones.
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To me, the less one is "Hand in hand", despite the fact is beatiful, is a song that doesn't fit with the rest of songs...
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It is. Expresso Love and Solid Rock are the lesser ones.
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To me, the less one is "Hand in hand", despite the fact is beatiful, is a song that doesn't fit with the rest of songs...
Would agree with that. I find myself not listening to it so often.
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Strangely enough I think "Hand in hand" would have been greater in Communiqué. It's like it was meant for this album musically.
I have always thought this album lacked one more song or two.
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Strangely enough I think "Hand in hand" would have been greater in Communiqué. It's like it was meant for this album musically.
I have always thought this album lacked one more song or two.
I always think that if CD and streaming won't exist, all MK records would have less songs in order to fit in the regular vynil duration of around 45 minutes, could you imagine GH or STP shortened to almost the half?
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I prefer albums around the 40-50 minutes mark. I also dislike double albums which are not an opera or some other cohesive work. Honestly, I think some of MK’s albums have too many songs. Not that I wouldn’t want some songs released, but I can see a few extra albums in there. For instance: The Ragpicker’s Dream has songs which drag a lot. You Don’t Know You’re Born is way too long (whereas Hill Farmer’s Blues fades out during the take off). Even Coyote, which is a good song, drags for almost 6 minutes. And I’m talking about an album which is below the 60 minutes mark.
(By the way, I see in other forums that some people are way too excited about this enormous political divide in society and get annoyed by opinions. This is just my opinion, nobody should get annoyed by it - just ignore it or disagree with all your might, but don’t shoot me, folks!)
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I prefer albums around the 40-50 minutes mark. I also dislike double albums which are not an opera or some other cohesive work. Honestly, I think some of MK’s albums have too many songs. Not that I wouldn’t want some songs released, but I can see a few extra albums in there. For instance: The Ragpicker’s Dream has songs which drag a lot. You Don’t Know You’re Born is way too long (whereas Hill Farmer’s Blues fades out during the take off). Even Coyote, which is a good song, drags for almost 6 minutes. And I’m talking about an album which is below the 60 minutes mark.
(By the way, I see in other forums that some people are way too excited about this enormous political divide in society and get annoyed by opinions. This is just my opinion, nobody should get annoyed by it - just ignore it or disagree with all your might, but don’t shoot me, folks!)
Totally agree with this. I used to think the more songs, the better, but even a songwriter of Mark's caliber end up with some fillers, and I think almost all his albums could have benefited from some trimming. Plus, as you say, a lot his songs are very long. 40-50 minutes is perfect, especially if you're the type who likes to sit down and listen intently to the whole album, which I do.
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I prefer albums around the 40-50 minutes mark. I also dislike double albums which are not an opera or some other cohesive work. Honestly, I think some of MK’s albums have too many songs. Not that I wouldn’t want some songs released, but I can see a few extra albums in there. For instance: The Ragpicker’s Dream has songs which drag a lot. You Don’t Know You’re Born is way too long (whereas Hill Farmer’s Blues fades out during the take off). Even Coyote, which is a good song, drags for almost 6 minutes. And I’m talking about an album which is below the 60 minutes mark.
(By the way, I see in other forums that some people are way too excited about this enormous political divide in society and get annoyed by opinions. This is just my opinion, nobody should get annoyed by it - just ignore it or disagree with all your might, but don’t shoot me, folks!)
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Ragpicker's Dream is one of my favourite MK albums, but I agree with some of what you say. HFB was definitely faded out far too soon, so it was a delight to hear it played live in 2008 with a fantastic solo. With regard to Coyote, the live versions from 2010 were far superior to the album version and the same applies to Why Aye Man. In the main, though, I still enjoy this album, especially the acoustic Marbletown. For me, the perfect album length is around 60 mins, but any longer would inevitably have some fillers.
Regarding politics on this forum - personally, I don't think it would work. It is a music forum first and foremost and a place to escape the political mayhem elsewhere! Political discussions almost always end in tears! ;)
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I prefer albums around the 40-50 minutes mark. I also dislike double albums which are not an opera or some other cohesive work. Honestly, I think some of MK’s albums have too many songs. Not that I wouldn’t want some songs released, but I can see a few extra albums in there. For instance: The Ragpicker’s Dream has songs which drag a lot. You Don’t Know You’re Born is way too long (whereas Hill Farmer’s Blues fades out during the take off). Even Coyote, which is a good song, drags for almost 6 minutes. And I’m talking about an album which is below the 60 minutes mark.
(By the way, I see in other forums that some people are way too excited about this enormous political divide in society and get annoyed by opinions. This is just my opinion, nobody should get annoyed by it - just ignore it or disagree with all your might, but don’t shoot me, folks!)
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Tracker has a lot of songs with endless minutes of nothing, just the same melody again and again where nothing really important happens, many track could had been shortened to almost the half without loosing anything important!
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I prefer albums around the 40-50 minutes mark. I also dislike double albums which are not an opera or some other cohesive work. Honestly, I think some of MK’s albums have too many songs. Not that I wouldn’t want some songs released, but I can see a few extra albums in there. For instance: The Ragpicker’s Dream has songs which drag a lot. You Don’t Know You’re Born is way too long (whereas Hill Farmer’s Blues fades out during the take off). Even Coyote, which is a good song, drags for almost 6 minutes. And I’m talking about an album which is below the 60 minutes mark.
(By the way, I see in other forums that some people are way too excited about this enormous political divide in society and get annoyed by opinions. This is just my opinion, nobody should get annoyed by it - just ignore it or disagree with all your might, but don’t shoot me, folks!)
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Tracker has a lot of songs with endless minutes of nothing, just the same melody again and again where nothing really important happens, many track could had been shortened to almost the half without loosing anything important!
That's actually was what I was thinking about during the 2019 show that I've attended. Looks like Mark started to become a fan of outros, more than ever before. I mean almost every song just goes on and on into infinity with some sort of outro, I wonder if it's the age thing or something. But yes, that can be a bit overused sometimes.
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I prefer albums around the 40-50 minutes mark. I also dislike double albums which are not an opera or some other cohesive work. Honestly, I think some of MK’s albums have too many songs. Not that I wouldn’t want some songs released, but I can see a few extra albums in there. For instance: The Ragpicker’s Dream has songs which drag a lot. You Don’t Know You’re Born is way too long (whereas Hill Farmer’s Blues fades out during the take off). Even Coyote, which is a good song, drags for almost 6 minutes. And I’m talking about an album which is below the 60 minutes mark.
(By the way, I see in other forums that some people are way too excited about this enormous political divide in society and get annoyed by opinions. This is just my opinion, nobody should get annoyed by it - just ignore it or disagree with all your might, but don’t shoot me, folks!)
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Tracker has a lot of songs with endless minutes of nothing, just the same melody again and again where nothing really important happens, many track could had been shortened to almost the half without loosing anything important!
How about Why Worry, then?
Of course these long outros create ambience and gives the listener a chance to breathe a little, and generally I like that, but it can a bit excessive in Mark's case. At least there should be happening something (It Never Rains for example), not just repeating a riff or motif over and over.
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I prefer albums around the 40-50 minutes mark. I also dislike double albums which are not an opera or some other cohesive work. Honestly, I think some of MK’s albums have too many songs. Not that I wouldn’t want some songs released, but I can see a few extra albums in there. For instance: The Ragpicker’s Dream has songs which drag a lot. You Don’t Know You’re Born is way too long (whereas Hill Farmer’s Blues fades out during the take off). Even Coyote, which is a good song, drags for almost 6 minutes. And I’m talking about an album which is below the 60 minutes mark.
(By the way, I see in other forums that some people are way too excited about this enormous political divide in society and get annoyed by opinions. This is just my opinion, nobody should get annoyed by it - just ignore it or disagree with all your might, but don’t shoot me, folks!)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tracker has a lot of songs with endless minutes of nothing, just the same melody again and again where nothing really important happens, many track could had been shortened to almost the half without loosing anything important!
How about Why Worry, then?
Of course these long outros create ambience and gives the listener a chance to breathe a little, and generally I like that, but it can a bit excessive in Mark's case. At least there should be happening something (It Never Rains for example), not just repeating a riff or motif over and over.
Why worry didn't have the long outtro when it was released, at least not in the vinyl, but that intro was interesting and full of nice moments, like the drums bits, the bass lines etc etc etc. It wasnt just repeat the guitar and piano notes.
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How about Why Worry, then?
Of course these long outros create ambience and gives the listener a chance to breathe a little, and generally I like that, but it can a bit excessive in Mark's case. At least there should be happening something (It Never Rains for example), not just repeating a riff or motif over and over.
Why worry didn't have the long outtro when it was released, at least not in the vinyl, but that intro was interesting and full of nice moments, like the drums bits, the bass lines etc etc etc. It wasnt just repeat the guitar and piano notes.
According to Google, WW had a 5:22 minutes runtime on vinyl and 8:31 (!) minutes on CD and cassette. The outro starts at 4:30. On vinyl it is too short, I agree, but on the CD it could easily have been shortened with a couple of minutes.
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I remember an interview in which he specifically targeted the long outro of Why Worry as “fussing around with pretty sounds” and “nonsense”. I’m paraphrasing, but I’ll try to find that interview.
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Of course these long outros create ambience and gives the listener a chance to breathe a little, and generally I like that, but it can a bit excessive in Mark's case. At least there should be happening something (It Never Rains for example), not just repeating a riff or motif over and over.
I always end skipping "River towns" when the sung part ends because that endless repetition of the same melody gets me nervous. The first time I listened to it I passed all the ouutro waiting for something to happen, a guitar solo, a sax solo, a piano solo, anything, but it was an endless repetition with some sax blows here and there...
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I remember an interview in which he specifically targeted the long outro of Why Worry as “fussing around with pretty sounds” and “nonsense”.
Sounds about right ;D
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I remember an interview in which he specifically targeted the long outro of Why Worry as “fussing around with pretty sounds” and “nonsense”.
Sounds about right ;D
In case of Why Worry at least you have an extremely satisfying keyboard riff, one of the most satisfying keyboards riffs, the way it resolves and a satisfying guitar lick, makes you really want for it to never end. And also a very 80s groove :lol Songs like River Towns seems to channel the same vibe, although sax fills and repeating guitar patterns are not so satisfying, hovewer it still grooves ;D
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Missed a lot of interesting stuff here so I'll need to reply to some!
I've recently listened to Tracker album again and enjoyed it a bit more than I thought I did. Pleasantly surprised. River Towns was one song that didn't impress though and just went on and on, not helped by his weary vocal delivery. On the other hand I haven't stopped listening to Laughs and Jokes since! Copenhagen version v good.
Why Bother has never been one of my favourites personally (you'd never have guessed) but I can't deny it's a cool riff. The only version I really enjoy is the album one and that is simply for the outro. I think the drums are superb.
Double albums: Privateering has just enough decent songs for a single CD IMHO. No more.
Ragpicker's Dream: criminal to cut off HFB just in it's prime like that. Not the only time Mark has done this. I'm thinking One Song at a Time off the top of my head. Maybe since he isn't touring again then the next album can have complete solos on it instead of having them chopped off just as they begin!
Sorry that was a bit all over the place but there were a lot of good points made in the last few posts. :)
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Strangely enough I think "Hand in hand" would have been greater in Communiqué. It's like it was meant for this album musically.
I have always thought this album lacked one more song or two.
I'd never previously considered this, but maybe it would have been best if Hand In Hand had swapped albums with Portobello Belle. Hand In Hand is more of a straightforward love/break up song and therefore doesn't quite fit the story-based lyrics of the rest of the album, and as you say is probably the closest in sound to Communiqué on Making Movies. It also By contrast, Portobello Belle has vivid lyrics rich with imagery, more like the other songs on Making Movies, and was given a more 'rocked up' arrangement in later live performances so perhaps would have been better suited to the later album’s sound and theme.
One other aspect of this album is that I sometimes wonder whether working with Bob Dylan on Slow Train Coming somehow influenced Mark's writing on Solid Rock and to a lesser extent Hand In Hand. I definitely don't think Solid Rock is a religious song, but the song's title and lyrical theme do invite comparisons to the parable of the wise and foolish builders. Hand In Hand is less obvious but I think the first and final verses have a somewhat biblical feel, specifically the 'writing on the wall' and 'forgive this dirty town' lines.
In my opinion the ideal length for an album is between 35-50 minutes, with a 'sweet spot' between 40-45 minutes - many classic albums seem to fall within this range (Dark Side of the Moon, Led Zeppelin IV and Who's Next are three that readily spring to my mind. Interestingly, the first DS album, Communiqué and Love Over Gold are all within this range too). I find anything less than 35 minutes nearly always seems too short regardless of the quality of the material. Above 50 minutes, there is a double whammy as the inclusion of filler tracks becomes more likely and it gets harder to maintain interest in the music for a longer period of time if there’s no theme or story linking the tracks. I find this becomes particularly noticeable if the weaker tracks are mostly towards the end of the album. I do think non-conceptual double albums, or albums with runtimes over 1 hour, can work, but only in specific circumstances - either for a prolific artist at the peak of their powers (Blonde On Blonde) or an artist with a wide musical palette that has songs in many different styles (Physical Graffiti). Unfortunately, the former is inherently rare and not that many artists can pull off the latter either. In general, I do think that longer albums (both in runtime and number of tracks) in the CD era have reduced the likelihood of a ‘perfect’ album with great music from start to finish.
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"One other aspect of this album is that I sometimes wonder whether working with Bob Dylan on Slow Train Coming somehow influenced Mark's writing on Solid Rock and to a lesser extent Hand In Hand. I definitely don't think Solid Rock is a religious song, but the song's title and lyrical theme do invite comparisons to the parable of the wise and foolish builders. Hand In Hand is less obvious but I think the first and final verses have a somewhat biblical feel, specifically the 'writing on the wall' and 'forgive this dirty town' lines"
Very interesting observation.
Biblical or religious accents is a very interesting topic.
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A quality album with an optimum run time (40-50 mins, to me) is like eating a quality meal prepared by a good chef. The ingredients are first rate, they complete each other, and the portions are just right. You feel full afterwards, but comfortably so. "Digesting" a full-length CD album is like forcing yourself to eat more when you're full just because there is more on the table. Afterwards you feel bloated and uncomfortable.
So it's not a perfect analogy - but, something like that :)
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Nowadays it seems that the model is more towards streaming and, in a way, more tracks in an album is also a way to ensure better probability of revenue. I’m pretty much old school since most of the time I do prefer to put on an album from start to finish.
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