A Mark In Time

Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: MagicElliott on June 01, 2021, 04:40:25 PM

Title: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: MagicElliott on June 01, 2021, 04:40:25 PM
Which of Mark’s songs (solo or DS) do you now hear the live version and think “when I heard it on the record I never thought it would end up like this?”

For me, PfP is the best example of this. I don’t really enjoy the studio version nowadays. 2013 and 2015 versions were terrific but the 2019 version is even better. The horns really add to it I think.

Other examples are Marbletown (sorry but I enjoy it live-all 45 minutes of it), to an extent Why Aye Man (although I still like the studio version) and Broken Bones (maybe not a great opener but I loved Richard’s wah-wah solo on it live)

I would love to hear what “Fare Thee Well Northumberland” would have ended up like live but that’s another thread for another day.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Robson on June 01, 2021, 04:48:07 PM
First thought: Hill Farmer's Blues

The studio version ends strange and fast.
The live version is great.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Jules on June 01, 2021, 05:05:52 PM
PfP?
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Robson on June 01, 2021, 05:08:41 PM
Postcards From Paraquay ?  ;)
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Knopflerfan on June 01, 2021, 05:24:03 PM
Yon Two Crows - it ends so abruptly on the album but the live version at least has some guitar!!
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Robson on June 01, 2021, 05:36:50 PM
Mighty Man in the live version sounds more beautiful.
Kingdom Of Gold too.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: border_reiver on June 01, 2021, 05:59:24 PM
Skydiver live has to be the ultimate anti climax.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: SamGolden on June 01, 2021, 06:08:55 PM
"Matchstick Man" is beautiful in the 2019 tour... With the nostalgic speech ant the voice really deep and so melancolic.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: MagicElliott on June 01, 2021, 06:09:46 PM
Postcards From Paraquay ?  ;)

Exactly. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.

Sometimes I love Skydiver, other times I find it boring. The best part of Skydiver live is when it’s followed by Laughs and Jokes which is great live and on the album.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Pottel on June 01, 2021, 06:29:44 PM
solid rock is the only song for me where the live version could never match the original raw energy from the record.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: herlock on June 01, 2021, 07:00:25 PM
solid rock is the only song for me where the live version could never match the original raw energy from the record.
The bad-ass OES tour version was stunning, though, albeit too much "hard-rock FM".
I think it is not the only song where the studio version is the best:
- What It Is, somehow falls flat live, the studio arrangements are loverly;
- Sailing to Philadelphia, studio version has a unique feel;
- Money for Nothing, hard to match this intro live;
- It never rains, live versions don't match the studio version.
- Love over gold, same.
And take two masterpieces, Sultans of Swing and Tunnel of Love, of course live versions are great, but the studio versions have a unique groove, a clean tone and perfect harmony between Mark and Pick, never matched live I think...

As for postcards, the original topic, I think nothing matches the simple yet beautiful 2007 AVO version... 2019 was fun, but more a joke ;) 2008-2015 were too heavy...
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: ds1984 on June 01, 2021, 08:40:29 PM
SFA Calypso
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Robson on June 01, 2021, 08:47:34 PM
SFA Calypso

 :thumbsup
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Robson on June 01, 2021, 08:48:37 PM
News live instrumental (final) part that heralds Private Investigations.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: KnopfleRick on June 01, 2021, 08:59:01 PM
First thought: Hill Farmer's Blues

The studio version ends strange and fast.
The live version is great.

I agree.
The Studio version ist great but the live version makes it even greater. One of my favourite live songs.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Robson on June 01, 2021, 09:06:56 PM
First thought: Hill Farmer's Blues

The studio version ends strange and fast.
The live version is great.

I agree.
The Studio version ist great but the live version makes it even greater. One of my favourite live songs.

Mine too:)
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Darling Pretty on June 01, 2021, 10:33:56 PM
solid rock is the only song for me where the live version could never match the original raw energy from the record.

+1 here

And BIA from the record never reached live the same level. Despite the Mandela version is near
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: rmarques821 on June 02, 2021, 12:04:25 AM
Love Over Gold for me. Beautiful studio version, but way too short live.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Love Expresso on June 02, 2021, 09:37:22 AM
Once Upon A Time In The West and Portobello Belle from Alchemy. The epic and beautiful 1996 Sultans was the peak.. Apart from Marbleown, he has turned away from live "versions" and has trouble enough to reproduce it from the record good enough. Because of laziness and not wanting to rehearse stuff long enough. So it comes that a few bars more at the end like in KoG or YTC or DOTDS make fans already go crazy.


If you take this topic in a mean and bad way and not in the good one as it was intended, I would have never thought that Sultans and Your Latest Trick could have become as cringy as in 2015.

LE
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: herlock on June 02, 2021, 09:47:20 AM
Once Upon A Time In The West and Portobello Belle from Alchemy. The epic and beautiful 1996 Sultans was the peak.. Apart from Marbleown, he has turned away from live "versions" and has trouble enough to reproduce it from the record good enough. Because of laziness and not wanting to rehearse stuff long enough. So it comes that a few bars more at the end like in KoG or YTC or DOTDS make fans already go crazy.


If you take this topic in a mean and bad way and not in the good one as it was intended, I would have never thought that Sultans and Your Latest Trick could have become as cringy as in 2015.

LE
Sultans from Sion 2015 is quite good. Quite similar to LA 2001...
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: superval99 on June 02, 2021, 10:01:23 AM
I actually enjoy the 4-piece version of Sultans more than the long version, but it is still a pleasure to hear.   Regarding Sultans 2015, Manchester was pretty good as were many of the 2010 versions.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: quizzaciously on June 02, 2021, 10:03:00 AM
Kingdom Of Gold is probably the main suspect here for me. How it transformed into an epic, Telegraph-Road-esque major-minor solo at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W01ahWz0qs
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: NicoMK on June 02, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
I know it's not amongst Mark's favorites here but I absolutely love "True love will never fade" live as played during the 2008 tour.

Re. more recent stuff, My bacon roll is a nice song on the album but, for me the outro live is a total mess and ruined the song.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: superval99 on June 02, 2021, 10:23:57 AM
I know it's not amongst Mark's favorites here but I absolutely love "True love will never fade" live as played during the 2008 tour.

Re. more recent stuff, My bacon roll is a nice song on the album but, for me the outro live is a total mess and ruined the song.

The outro live on My Bacon Roll is what makes the song extra-special for me!   
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: NicoMK on June 02, 2021, 10:34:13 AM
I know it's not amongst Mark's favorites here but I absolutely love "True love will never fade" live as played during the 2008 tour.

Re. more recent stuff, My bacon roll is a nice song on the album but, for me the outro live is a total mess and ruined the song.

The outro live on My Bacon Roll is what makes the song extra-special for me!   

Which prouves that beauty is in the eye of the beholder  ;)
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: superval99 on June 02, 2021, 10:47:18 AM
I know it's not amongst Mark's favorites here but I absolutely love "True love will never fade" live as played during the 2008 tour.

Re. more recent stuff, My bacon roll is a nice song on the album but, for me the outro live is a total mess and ruined the song.

The outro live on My Bacon Roll is what makes the song extra-special for me!   

Which prouves that beauty is in the eye of the beholder  ;)

Exactly!    Imagine how boring it would be if we all felt the same way!    ;D
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: superval99 on June 02, 2021, 10:59:39 AM
The biggest transformation of songs from album to live performance was at Amsterdam, HMH in 2008 when we all heard Hillfarmer's Blues and Marbletown for the first time.  It was amazing!
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Love Expresso on June 02, 2021, 11:30:56 AM
The biggest transformation of songs from album to live performance was at Amsterdam, HMH in 2008 when we all heard Hillfarmer's Blues and Marbletown for the first time.  It was amazing!

Yes. I was not there but I agree. It indeed was one of THE moments of his solo career.

LE
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Love Expresso on June 02, 2021, 11:31:33 AM
I know it's not amongst Mark's favorites here but I absolutely love "True love will never fade" live as played during the 2008 tour.

Re. more recent stuff, My bacon roll is a nice song on the album but, for me the outro live is a total mess and ruined the song.

The outro live on My Bacon Roll is what makes the song extra-special for me!   

Agree on this one, too.

LE
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: qjamesfloyd on June 02, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
I have always preferred the live versions of Portobello Belle to the album version, the live version is more free, the album version sounds restrained by comparison.
The outro of Romeo & Juliet is always beautiful, the album version is still great, but live it is taken to another level.
Private Investigations is better live too, Mark's guitar outro again is wonderful.
The Calypso version of So Far Away is amazing :clap
Although the album version of You and Your Friend is really good, it's the live version where it really shines, Mark's playing is a lesson in the blues, and in touch and feeling on the guitar, Paul Franklin really adds to it too.
Are We In Trouble now is wonderful live, as is Rudiger.
Hill Farmer's Blues is a clear example of how Mark can make a great song on record, and then make it 10 times better live.
I have always loved, True Love Will Never Fade, Mark's playing live is sublime, and a rare example of Mark playing a solo with a plectrum, Richards lovely acoustic intro is great too.
An example of a song that sound great on studio, live and acoustic versions is, The Long Highway
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Love Expresso on June 02, 2021, 11:54:56 AM
A very early one is Southbound again, live very different from the album version. Very cool and energetic. Also the Live outro of Lions in the early years (not 1985) was a great change .

LE
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Robson on June 02, 2021, 01:50:18 PM
The biggest transformation of songs from album to live performance was at Amsterdam, HMH in 2008 when we all heard Hillfarmer's Blues and Marbletown for the first time.  It was amazing!

In Boothbay Harbor in 2006 too  ;)
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: herlock on June 02, 2021, 01:53:03 PM
A very early one is Southbound again, live very different from the album version. Very cool and energetic. Also the Live outro of Lions in the early years (not 1985) was a great change .

LE
Lions was not played in 1985.
If you mean 1980/81, the outro was not great, going nowhere, but the rest of the song was hugely transformed, the rythm was wanted, more up tempo, I love it...not as much as I love the 80/81 version of News, though, truly epic !
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Love Expresso on June 02, 2021, 02:20:18 PM
You are right about 1985, sorry, mixed it up with Wild West End.

And I meant the 1979 live outro of Lions, Road to Philadelphia Bootleg style. 

LE
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: dmg on June 02, 2021, 03:08:03 PM
One Song at a Time is something that needs a mention here.  Just as Mark's getting into the groove and his guitar comes in at the end it fades out and we are left wondering...

Agree with Herlock on Postcards that during what was a rusty show they played probably the best version of that song.

LOG, It Never Rains and YLT never came close.  WII was disappointing.

Some were neither worse or better - just different.  I would agree with Pottel regarding SR and the great studio version, however I also love the OES version which cannot really be compared.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: localhero1986 on June 02, 2021, 04:26:56 PM
SAN is a song that I still prefer as studio song, the live versions are often too “busy”, missing the nice outro. Another song I was curious about was the Mist Covered Mountains. Glad they played in Cologne years and years ago but… it was kind of “edgy”. Can’t listen to that recording anymore. Not sure what Matt did there. :think
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Darling Pretty on June 02, 2021, 10:19:24 PM
The biggest transformation of songs from album to live performance was at Amsterdam, HMH in 2008 when we all heard Hillfarmer's Blues and Marbletown for the first time.  It was amazing!

Yes. I was not there but I agree. It indeed was one of THE moments of his solo career.

LE

absolutely. 2008 had many highlights. That's why I call it the last tour which really caught me.
2010 back problems
2011 was tight
2013 was boring me
2015 was no highlight as well
2019 well at least some setlist changes

But 2008 was really stunning with Marbletown, Hillfarmers and Cannibals as an Opener
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: herlock on June 02, 2021, 10:24:00 PM
The biggest transformation of songs from album to live performance was at Amsterdam, HMH in 2008 when we all heard Hillfarmer's Blues and Marbletown for the first time.  It was amazing!

Yes. I was not there but I agree. It indeed was one of THE moments of his solo career.

LE

absolutely. 2008 had many highlights. That's why I call it the last tour which really caught me.
2010 back problems
2011 was tight
2013 was boring me
2015 was no highlight as well
2019 well at least some setlist changes

But 2008 was really stunning with Marbletown, Hillfarmers and Cannibals as an Opener
2010 back problems didn't prevent the playing to be great, better than 2008 I think...
And setlist changed were great as well, Border Reiver (much better than Canibals as an opener), Piper (the most touching since BIA), Coyote (lots of fun)...
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Lucas_99 on June 02, 2021, 11:18:21 PM
Not just the ending, but the whole new live-arrangement of One World 85 is awesome, putting the bridge of the song at the beginning and so on...
Does anybody know, who played bass on the studio version? Is that really John or someone else? Wondering for long time, bc in the live version, John plays it like he always plays :)
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: superval99 on June 03, 2021, 08:49:12 AM
The biggest transformation of songs from album to live performance was at Amsterdam, HMH in 2008 when we all heard Hillfarmer's Blues and Marbletown for the first time.  It was amazing!

Yes. I was not there but I agree. It indeed was one of THE moments of his solo career.

LE

absolutely. 2008 had many highlights. That's why I call it the last tour which really caught me.
2010 back problems
2011 was tight
2013 was boring me
2015 was no highlight as well
2019 well at least some setlist changes

But 2008 was really stunning with Marbletown, Hillfarmers and Cannibals as an Opener
2010 back problems didn't prevent the playing to be great, better than 2008 I think...
And setlist changed were great as well, Border Reiver (much better than Canibals as an opener), Piper (the most touching since BIA), Coyote (lots of fun)...

I loved the 2010 tour - everything was played so well, despite MK's bad back.   I still listen to the recordings of the concerts I attended and enjoy them just as much every time.  Apart from the wonderful Coyote and Piper there were also some great performances of SOS, Speedway, Marbletown and TR too.
 
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Knopflerfan on June 03, 2021, 09:12:24 AM
Just to add, TLWNF & Border Reiver - good/reasonable on their respective albums but absolute monsters live...
Sorry MBR doesn't cut it with me Album or Live...

Agree with dmg, OSAAT could of been amazing live....
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: MagicElliott on June 03, 2021, 09:17:00 AM
I’m so pleased this thread has taken off.
I must admit that although I meant it as what songs have got better live, it’s also interesting to see what has got worse live.

For me then, What It Is live doesn’t match the studio version. I’ve got a bit fed up with it live.

Regarding SOS live, my first tour was 2008 and so I’ve only seen it as a four piece. I’m not enough of a guitar player or MK nut to be able to tell the difference in his playing between 2008 and 2015 so have enjoyed all versions of it.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Knopflerfan on June 03, 2021, 09:17:24 AM
Also remember hearing the opening first few bars of IUTC on one of his Sig Strats at the RAH and it blew my mind!!
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Knopflerfan on June 03, 2021, 09:19:43 AM
What it is 'Live' does seem to vary. Personally I like the early versions - The Beaulieu version (2002) is rather good....
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: JF on June 03, 2021, 09:42:49 AM
Not just the ending, but the whole new live-arrangement of One World 85 is awesome, putting the bridge of the song at the beginning and so on...
Does anybody know, who played bass on the studio version? Is that really John or someone else? Wondering for long time, bc in the live version, John plays it like he always plays :)

it's Tony Levin

and I guess it's Neil Jason on Why Worry
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: MagicElliott on June 03, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
Also remember hearing the opening first few bars of IUTC on one of his Sig Strats at the RAH and it blew my mind!!

Ah yeah great shout. Just that sound  echoing round the room at the RAH is just perfect. I never knew why Guy’s harmonica skills were considered good enough for Gator Blood but not for that….
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Jules on June 03, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Also remember hearing the opening first few bars of IUTC on one of his Sig Strats at the RAH and it blew my mind!!

Ah yeah great shout. Just that sound  echoing round the room at the RAH is just perfect. I never knew why Guy’s harmonica skills were considered good enough for Gator Blood but not for that….

"Gator Blood" harmonica is just little blows here and there, the harmonica in "I used to could" is more elaborated and even has somo solos, so it had to be done with the saxophone.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: MagicElliott on June 05, 2021, 03:25:46 PM
Fair point. I wonder if they ever considered Guy playing a harmonica sample on synth. If he can replicate MK’s guitar on Corned Beef City then he could do this surely.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: JF on June 07, 2021, 04:27:45 PM
Fair point. I wonder if they ever considered Guy playing a harmonica sample on synth. If he can replicate MK’s guitar on Corned Beef City then he could do this surely.
he even sampled a guitar lick on calling Elvis in 96. horrible !  ;D
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: MagicElliott on June 07, 2021, 10:17:03 PM
I was only six then. Way before I’d heard of MK!
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Rivers Of Rain on June 19, 2021, 01:30:29 PM
My number one pick would be Once Upon A Time In The West on Alchemy - I love the studio recording but was amazed when I first heard the live version with the long but highly melodic guitar solo which never comes close to getting boring or self-indulgent. The studio Once Upon A Time doesn't begin to hint at the second half of the Alchemy version, which reaches Dark Side/Wish You Were Here-era Pink Floyd levels of transcendent beauty in my opinion.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: rmarques821 on June 19, 2021, 02:24:53 PM
My number one pick would be Once Upon A Time In The West on Alchemy - I love the studio recording but was amazed when I first heard the live version with the long but highly melodic guitar solo which never comes close to getting boring or self-indulgent. The studio Once Upon A Time doesn't begin to hint at the second half of the Alchemy version, which reaches Dark Side/Wish You Were Here-era Pink Floyd levels of transcendent beauty in my opinion.

I completely agree. Once Upon a Time in the West on Alchemy is absolutely legendary.
Title: Re: I never thought it would end up like this!!
Post by: Knopflerfan on June 22, 2021, 12:03:15 PM
My number one pick would be Once Upon A Time In The West on Alchemy - I love the studio recording but was amazed when I first heard the live version with the long but highly melodic guitar solo which never comes close to getting boring or self-indulgent. The studio Once Upon A Time doesn't begin to hint at the second half of the Alchemy version, which reaches Dark Side/Wish You Were Here-era Pink Floyd levels of transcendent beauty in my opinion.

I completely agree. Once Upon a Time in the West on Alchemy is absolutely legendary.

Good call indeed, the Alchemy 'Live' version is indeed mind blowing compared to the album version...