A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Robson on June 13, 2021, 08:03:16 PM
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Great request. I can't find the exact dates of the shows documenting On The Night album. Nimes and Rotterdam. Which songs came from Nimes and Rotterdam.
I remember the topic in the forum but can't find it :think Please help.
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https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=7301.msg146935#msg146935
There was a thread about it. Please check. It might help although it is not 100% solved.
LE
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Yes! I was thinking about it. Thank you very much Love Expresso for your express response:)
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Here:
https://universodirestraits.blogspot.com/2018/04/analogias-sobre-o-on-night-revisada.html
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Thank you very much :)
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Thank you very much :)
http://universodirestraits.blogspot.com/2021/06/calling-elvis-on-night-performance.html?m=0
Still about OTN, I wrote just now.
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I read it, very interesting thanks ! Well spotted.
I've never been too much into the recording / editing of On the night but yeah, just like the vast majority of us, I've always felt that the whole album didn't sound live at all - despite the fact that all the songs are very well played, maybe too well lol.
As for the Calling Elvis song, I would never have thought that they may have rebuilt the whole song with different recordings. Mixing various videos for one song is something that I've seen before on official DVDs from other artists, but "recreating" a song with various audio recordings is something that I don't like too much. Where's the authenticity in this, I don't know, but I suppose the idea was to offer a "perfect" concert for all the people who attended the show.
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My opinion to this life-stuff. There are not many official released suitable live-albums, live-records from the record-company, so in circulation on us fans are much more interesting and very good sounding concerts from the OES-Period, wich also are so valuable for a regular release, also from other DS tours. It belongs to the record-companies, but sometime i cannot understand such release-policy by them.
Same procedure with Bruce Springsteen concert-releases.
Maybe it can be an impulse for the record-companies to release some more cool life-stuff on CD-Sets or on Vinyls. :think
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Alchemy was so bloody marvellous it’s spoiled us for any other live album.
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I wish this album would have included Planet of New Orleans, which was incredible live.
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I wish this album would have included Planet of New Orleans, which was incredible live.
it's unbelievable it was left out. for a sane mind.
even more unbelievable it's not out after other 28 years in a special box or something.
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And where is the Sultans Of Swing, where is the Telegraph Road?
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Following the concept that they used for the 2015 Best-of Tracker Tour, they could release a deluxe box of On The Night, including ALL the songs they played during the 3-4 nights used for the record. That would be cool and probably sell well but… it just won't happen.
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I wish this album would have included Planet of New Orleans, which was incredible live.
it's unbelievable it was left out. for a sane mind.
even more unbelievable it's not out after other 28 years in a special box or something.
I think that at the time of the recordings used for OTN the song was already dropped from the setlist.
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They could have included it as an extra on the Encores disc from a different show.
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Alchemy was so bloody marvellous it’s spoiled us for any other live album.
This is it. It's also strange that they made such a big deal out of Alchemy being completely live and then did the exact opposite ten years later.
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I prefer the Woburn Abbey Radio 1 broadcast. His voice sounds weird on OTN. Although it’s forgiven for having You and your friend.
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So would it be fair to say that Guy messed it up? If I remember correctly, he was the man in charge? I do exactly remember how big my expectations were and how shocked I was at the first listen because of Exactly that: the strange sound of MK's voice.
LE
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They could have included it as an extra on the Encores disc from a different show.
They recorded at least one of the april run gigs at Paris Bercy and PONO was performed some nights.
So who knows ?
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May 20 and 21 in Nimes they also played When It Comes To You. I forgot about it and I love this song.
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So would it be fair to say that Guy messed it up? If I remember correctly, he was the man in charge? I do exactly remember how big my expectations were and how shocked I was at the first listen because of Exactly that: the strange sound of MK's voice.
LE
I didn’t like the sound of the Emmylou and MK Live DVD either. It was over polished to me. MK to me is best live. His studio albums are dull compared to his live stuff. I rarely if ever listen to his studio albums.
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I prefer the Woburn Abbey Radio 1 broadcast. His voice sounds weird on OTN. Although it’s forgiven for having You and your friend.
Still got that on tape- recorded from the Radio broadcast....
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So would it be fair to say that Guy messed it up? If I remember correctly, he was the man in charge? I do exactly remember how big my expectations were and how shocked I was at the first listen because of Exactly that: the strange sound of MK's voice.
LE
I didn’t like the sound of the Emmylou and MK Live DVD either. It was over polished to me. MK to me is best live. His studio albums are dull compared to his live stuff. I rarely if ever listen to his studio albums.
I used to have that opinion, but of late I'm re-exploring the studio albums on Vinyl and to be honest I've got to the stage in life that if its MK - it'll ruddy do!! MK live is very special as a lot on here like me will know but then again so are his albums...
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Thinking a bit more on this subject, and can remember hearing the Woburn abbey show on Radio 1 and thinking 'wow' thats really good.
Upon buying the double cassette on release and listening to that at the time was amazing. But as of this current time I hardly play it. If I'm after a DS/MK Live fix I either go to Alchemy or the few MK solo Blurays instead...
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Thinking a bit more on this subject, and can remember hearing the Woburn abbey show on Radio 1 and thinking 'wow' thats really good.
Upon buying the double cassette on release and listening to that at the time was amazing. But as of this current time I hardly play it. If I'm after a DS/MK Live fix I either go to Alchemy or the few MK solo Blurays instead...
which MK solo blurays?
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Thinking a bit more on this subject, and can remember hearing the Woburn abbey show on Radio 1 and thinking 'wow' thats really good.
Upon buying the double cassette on release and listening to that at the time was amazing. But as of this current time I hardly play it. If I'm after a DS/MK Live fix I either go to Alchemy or the few MK solo Blurays instead...
which MK solo blurays?
MK solo DVDs I meant!
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It is funny that people mention MK's voice regarding On the Night. Do you think that MK re-voiced the whole of OTN before it was released? His voice sounds way over produced and doesn't really have a live dynamic to the sound of it.
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It is funny that people mention MK's voice regarding On the Night. Do you think that MK re-voiced the whole of OTN before it was released? His voice sounds way over produced and doesn't really have a live dynamic to the sound of it.
I don't think that any hardcore overdubbing was used in this particular recording. I think they deliberately stitched it from various shows so as not to re-record some parts later... Also, I think it was recorded pretty simply, and we will never hear any other versions over than what we have. Certainly, no 5.1 version or remaster of any kind. Only, maybe, a "full" version one day with better visuals. If only it was recorded on film anyway!
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So would it be fair to say that Guy messed it up? If I remember correctly, he was the man in charge? I do exactly remember how big my expectations were and how shocked I was at the first listen because of Exactly that: the strange sound of MK's voice.
LE
I didn’t like the sound of the Emmylou and MK Live DVD either. It was over polished to me. MK to me is best live. His studio albums are dull compared to his live stuff. I rarely if ever listen to his studio albums.
I love listen to studio versions because of some arrangements you don't get on live versions, especially serveral guitar parts by Mark at the same time that obviously can't be played in concert
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So would it be fair to say that Guy messed it up? If I remember correctly, he was the man in charge? I do exactly remember how big my expectations were and how shocked I was at the first listen because of Exactly that: the strange sound of MK's voice.
LE
I didn’t like the sound of the Emmylou and MK Live DVD either. It was over polished to me. MK to me is best live. His studio albums are dull compared to his live stuff. I rarely if ever listen to his studio albums.
I used to have that opinion, but of late I'm re-exploring the studio albums on Vinyl and to be honest I've got to the stage in life that if its MK - it'll ruddy do!! MK live is very special as a lot on here like me will know but then again so are his albums...
I'm with you. Mark live is very special and I listen to these recordings most of the time, but when I pick one studio album I usually stick to it a long time. Mark is amazing live or in the studio!
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So would it be fair to say that Guy messed it up? If I remember correctly, he was the man in charge? I do exactly remember how big my expectations were and how shocked I was at the first listen because of Exactly that: the strange sound of MK's voice.
LE
I didn’t like the sound of the Emmylou and MK Live DVD either. It was over polished to me. MK to me is best live. His studio albums are dull compared to his live stuff. I rarely if ever listen to his studio albums.
I used to have that opinion, but of late I'm re-exploring the studio albums on Vinyl and to be honest I've got to the stage in life that if its MK - it'll ruddy do!! MK live is very special as a lot on here like me will know but then again so are his albums...
I'm with you. Mark live is very special and I listen to these recordings most of the time, but when I pick one studio album I usually stick to it a long time. Mark is amazing live or in the studio!
Indeed.
Yes live versions are expanded, but the studio versions are so finely crafted. SOS, TOL, TR, Solid Rock, MFN, BIA, OES, WII, WAM, Speedway have amazing studio versions. Even HFB without a ending solo sounds very unique in the studio. SOS's groove with Pick has never been reproduced live, even in 1978/79.
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So would it be fair to say that Guy messed it up? If I remember correctly, he was the man in charge? I do exactly remember how big my expectations were and how shocked I was at the first listen because of Exactly that: the strange sound of MK's voice.
LE
I didn’t like the sound of the Emmylou and MK Live DVD either. It was over polished to me. MK to me is best live. His studio albums are dull compared to his live stuff. I rarely if ever listen to his studio albums.
I used to have that opinion, but of late I'm re-exploring the studio albums on Vinyl and to be honest I've got to the stage in life that if its MK - it'll ruddy do!! MK live is very special as a lot on here like me will know but then again so are his albums...
I'm with you. Mark live is very special and I listen to these recordings most of the time, but when I pick one studio album I usually stick to it a long time. Mark is amazing live or in the studio!
Indeed.
Yes live versions are expanded, but the studio versions are so finely crafted. SOS, TOL, TR, Solid Rock, MFN, BIA, OES, WII, WAM, Speedway have amazing studio versions. Even HFB without a ending solo sounds very unique in the studio. SOS's groove with Pick has never been reproduced live, even in 1978/79.
Herlock, you are so right - each MK studio album is so finely crafted (great word) and the album versions strike a fine balance Studio & Live. Almost that they are recorded on the album and then when they are played Live MK can then venture as he see's fit with any additions - guitar solo's etc
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Watched the OTN concert again recently in its entirety. Made me feel quite nostalgic, but, although it has its highlights, especially YAYF, I find it musically boring now. It feels dated, really.
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Agree about YAYF, it pretty much is the highlight of the album - it is pretty spectacular...(lyrically not so much! ;D)
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Agree about YAYF, it pretty much is the highlight of the album - it is pretty spectacular...(lyrically not so much! ;D)
I must say that You And Your Friend ending STILL give me chills and goose-skin after all these years, one of the highlights of Mark's playing to me. And lyrically, it's just minor blues! "Woke up this morning" type of thing.
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That performance of You and Your Friend is amazing, if anyone wants to know how Mark Knopfler plays the Blues, play them that, the tone of the guitar, his touch on the fret board, the emotional licks, the control of the bends, it has everything.
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I think the interplay between MK on the Pensa and PF on The Box really sets this song apart, the song builds the intensity and really showcases both artists natural talents - MK and the OES era Pensa worked SO well. Not only do the two guitars compliment each other so well, but this tune would definitely stand the test of time if played today but would need PF in the touring band, sadly Richard doesn't cut the mustard to carry this one off with his pedal steel skills! - Im actually surprised that PF isn't the occasional (or more regular) guest - this could introduce other gems such as Iron Hand - again a song that would work well currently.
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Iron Hand version of Timothy White Session should be on the album on every street
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Agree about YAYF, it pretty much is the highlight of the album - it is pretty spectacular...(lyrically not so much! ;D)
yes great version
we are very close to the 30th anniversary of the start of that tour and still nothing about all the missing songs,
I am really sickened when I think what that album could be with all the missing songs,
especially Tunnel and Planet which are not available on any soundboard, unbelievable stuff
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Agree about YAYF, it pretty much is the highlight of the album - it is pretty spectacular...(lyrically not so much! ;D)
yes great version
we are very close to the 30th anniversary of the start of that tour and still nothing about all the missing songs,
I am really sickened when I think what that album could be with all the missing songs,
especially Tunnel and Planet which are not available on any soundboard, unbelievable stuff
Tunnel was a much lesser attempt than that already released on Alchemy and I know they didn't wanted to avoid comparisons with that album so perhaps that's why it wasn't there.
As for Planet, I never thought he found a proper final solo for it and that's maybe why he stopped playing it. It was always interesting but seldom found a way to go and seemed to end abruptly, sometimes without proper climax before the sax came in. One of the best solos musically is London 16/09/91 I think, where it builds to a climax and blends seamlessly with the sax. I love this song live mainly because it's so interesting and unpredictable!
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Agree about YAYF, it pretty much is the highlight of the album - it is pretty spectacular...(lyrically not so much! ;D)
yes great version
we are very close to the 30th anniversary of the start of that tour and still nothing about all the missing songs,
I am really sickened when I think what that album could be with all the missing songs,
especially Tunnel and Planet which are not available on any soundboard, unbelievable stuff
Tunnel was a much lesser attempt than that already released on Alchemy and I know they didn't wanted to avoid comparisons with that album so perhaps that's why it wasn't there.
As for Planet, I never thought he found a proper final solo for it and that's maybe why he stopped playing it. It was always interesting but seldom found a way to go and seemed to end abruptly, sometimes without proper climax before the sax came in. One of the best solos musically is London 16/09/91 I think, where it builds to a climax and blends seamlessly with the sax. I love this song live mainly because it's so interesting and unpredictable!
That's especially interesting considering three months of rehearsals! Seems hard to believe that they managed to leave some arrangements unfinished. Me personally, I never even heard Tunnel and Planet from this tour, and I think I never missed a lot, to be honest.
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Yes, Mark is very particular about what he chooses to release. I think he thought that Sultans, Tunnel and Telegraph were not as good as Alchemy versions. He said he wanted OTN to be "as different as Alchemy as possible", hence only PI and R&J are common to both albums.
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Yes, Mark is very particular about what he chooses to release. I think he thought that Sultans, Tunnel and Telegraph were not as good as Alchemy versions. He said he wanted OTN to be "as different as Alchemy as possible", hence only PI and R&J are common to both albums.
yes, that's the official version, didn't want to replicate Alchemy
BUT still Romeo and Private and Solid Rock and Going Home are there, and both the sound of the songs and the versions of SOS Telegraph Tunnel are so different from Alchemy that it's a musical murder to leave them out
add also Planet and when it comes to you out and the mess is complete
no news after 30 years ::) ::)
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Yeah, although I tend to agree that Alchemy versions of Sultans, TOL and TR are better, it would have been nice to have 91/92 versions as well, the more we have the better ! Marks things the opposite, that only the very best will go through...
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Agree about YAYF, it pretty much is the highlight of the album - it is pretty spectacular...(lyrically not so much! ;D)
yes great version
we are very close to the 30th anniversary of the start of that tour and still nothing about all the missing songs,
I am really sickened when I think what that album could be with all the missing songs,
especially Tunnel and Planet which are not available on any soundboard, unbelievable stuff
Tunnel was a much lesser attempt than that already released on Alchemy and I know they didn't wanted to avoid comparisons with that album so perhaps that's why it wasn't there.
As for Planet, I never thought he found a proper final solo for it and that's maybe why he stopped playing it. It was always interesting but seldom found a way to go and seemed to end abruptly, sometimes without proper climax before the sax came in. One of the best solos musically is London 16/09/91 I think, where it builds to a climax and blends seamlessly with the sax. I love this song live mainly because it's so interesting and unpredictable!
That's especially interesting considering three months of rehearsals! Seems hard to believe that they managed to leave some arrangements unfinished. Me personally, I never even heard Tunnel and Planet from this tour, and I think I never missed a lot, to be honest.
Always wondered about all these rehearsals myself because the arrangements changed so much over the tour before Mark seemed happy enough to have a soundboard recorded all the way to Woburn Abbey on 20th June '92! These two songs in particular had lots of mistakes from Mark early in the tour too.
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Marks things the opposite, that only the very best will go through...
That's why Heavy Fuel was included in the album
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Marks things the opposite, that only the very best will go through...
That's why Heavy Fuel was included in the album
I was taking in terms of redention of the song, not about the value of the song itself.
You may not like Heavy Fuel, and I don't either, but if Mark wrote it and found it fit to be played live, he certainly does not agree with us...
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Marks things the opposite, that only the very best will go through...
That's why Heavy Fuel was included in the album
I was taking in terms of redention of the song, not about the value of the song itself.
You may not like Heavy Fuel, and I don't either, but if Mark wrote it and found it fit to be played live, he certainly does not agree with us...
I like Heavy Fuel actually, I am a rock guy, even if it's clearly inferior to all the other melodies
My point is that there's no way to justify those major songs were left out
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That performance of You and Your Friend is amazing, if anyone wants to know how Mark Knopfler plays the Blues, play them that, the tone of the guitar, his touch on the fret board, the emotional licks, the control of the bends, it has everything.
I agree! Absolutely perfect performance. You can listen to this song on repeat and never get tired of it. There is some kind of flow you can't resist, when you know what I mean.
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That performance of You and Your Friend is amazing, if anyone wants to know how Mark Knopfler plays the Blues, play them that, the tone of the guitar, his touch on the fret board, the emotional licks, the control of the bends, it has everything.
I agree! Absolutely perfect performance. You can listen to this song on repeat and never get tired of it. There is some kind of flow you can't resist, when you know what I mean.
I also like Brothers In Arms quite a bit from OTN. Back in the day, I used to program my CD player to play YAYF and BIA on repeat on late evenings :)
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Marks things the opposite, that only the very best will go through...
That's why Heavy Fuel was included in the album
I was taking in terms of redention of the song, not about the value of the song itself.
You may not like Heavy Fuel, and I don't either, but if Mark wrote it and found it fit to be played live, he certainly does not agree with us...
I like Heavy Fuel actually, I am a rock guy
My point is that there's no way to justify those major songs were left out
It's pretty easy to justify, they didn't want a double album as that would hurt sales, and they didn't want the same tracks as Alchemy.
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Marks things the opposite, that only the very best will go through...
That's why Heavy Fuel was included in the album
I was taking in terms of redention of the song, not about the value of the song itself.
You may not like Heavy Fuel, and I don't either, but if Mark wrote it and found it fit to be played live, he certainly does not agree with us...
I like Heavy Fuel actually, I am a rock guy
My point is that there's no way to justify those major songs were left out
It's pretty easy to justify, they didn't want a double album as that would hurt sales, and they didn't want the same tracks as Alchemy.
that doesn't make any sense
it's more or less like when Guy said they wanted to release a RAH official recording but they didn't cause RAH fees were too high
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What doesn't make sense?
Double albums sell less than single albums because they cost more.
Pretty simple really.
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Privateering didn't cost more :)
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What doesn't make sense?
Double albums sell less than single albums because they cost more.
Pretty simple really.
financially maybe, artistically it's grotesque, are we talking about art or simply a financial company
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Privateering didn't cost more :)
That's because they were pirate copies. ;)
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:)
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What doesn't make sense?
Double albums sell less than single albums because they cost more.
Pretty simple really.
financially maybe, artistically it's grotesque, are we talking about art or simply a financial company
It's called showbusiness for a reason my friend.
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What doesn't make sense?
Double albums sell less than single albums because they cost more.
Pretty simple really.
financially maybe, artistically it's grotesque, are we talking about art or simply a financial company
Record companies are, companies.
They look for their finances, not for the art.
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What doesn't make sense?
Double albums sell less than single albums because they cost more.
Pretty simple really.
financially maybe, artistically it's grotesque, are we talking about art or simply a financial company
Record companies are, companies.
They look for their finances, not for the art.
First I really doubt a complete On The Night would sell less, actually the exact opposite, the best art is the best way to sell more
Second MK is not Goldman Sachs' CEO, he should care about releasing the best art possible first and in any case
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You have to consider format too. When Alchemy was released there was only really cassette and vinyl in play and a double live album was a fairly normal thing. I was too young back then but was Achemely even sold separately as part one and part two in some cases ?
The cd changed all that and a length of 80 mins so a different strategy had to be taken. You also have to consider the place the Encores plays in the release of On The Night. The album was marketed in all formats with an extra slipcase or space for this EP, so whilst they were sold separately you effectively have an almost complete gig. My second hand LP edition came with Encores already inside it! And my original cassette edition had a larger slipcase to be able to hold Encores.
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MK had no interest in this whole release at all. It was made with absolute no enthusiasm, let alone artistic interests.
LE
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MK had no interest in this whole release at all. It was made with absolute no enthusiasm, let alone artistic interests.
LE
Maybe that would explain why the cover for this album is the freakin Karl G. Jansky Very Large Array.
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You have to consider format too. When Alchemy was released there was only really cassette and vinyl in play and a double live album was a fairly normal thing. I was too young back then but was Achemely even sold separately as part one and part two in some cases ?
The cd changed all that and a length of 80 mins so a different strategy had to be taken. You also have to consider the place the Encores plays in the release of On The Night. The album was marketed in all formats with an extra slipcase or space for this EP, so whilst they were sold separately you effectively have an almost complete gig. My second hand LP edition came with Encores already inside it! And my original cassette edition had a larger slipcase to be able to hold Encores.
I have my original Alchemy CD copy bought late 1980s and it is in the format of 2 CDs in separate jewel cases bundled together in a cardboard case, so I guess they were always sold as a pair. That was in the days before we had the fold-out cases that could hold 2 discs.
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You have to consider format too. When Alchemy was released there was only really cassette and vinyl in play and a double live album was a fairly normal thing. I was too young back then but was Achemely even sold separately as part one and part two in some cases ?
The cd changed all that and a length of 80 mins so a different strategy had to be taken. You also have to consider the place the Encores plays in the release of On The Night. The album was marketed in all formats with an extra slipcase or space for this EP, so whilst they were sold separately you effectively have an almost complete gig. My second hand LP edition came with Encores already inside it! And my original cassette edition had a larger slipcase to be able to hold Encores.
Is marketed this way nowadays too? The original case for my OTN broke years ago and I wonder if the OTN copy you can purchase nowadays has that extra slipcase or is just a single case.
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It’s just a single case.
But you can get an original cd cheap, unlike the vinyl edition which goes for silly money.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I still have both the cassette and CD 'OTN' versions which allowed space for the encores cassette/disc single to go...
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Alchemy Live.
Originally released as a Double-LP-Album with Fold-Out-Cover. In some other exotic countries, like Zimbabwe it was also released in a wide-spine-single-cover and in Argentina in to seperate Single-LP-Albums.
In around 1988 i also bought the 2-CD-Set with the two single-Album-Cases in the Cardboard-Box. Newer editions have the slim-Line 2-CD-Cover. I also have seen a 2-MusiCassette-Set in a special inlet in a cardboard-box.
There were also different Video-releases, VHS, BETAMAX, LD-Disc (the silver Video-Discs) and on CD-V (the golden Video-Discs).
Yes a lot of different variants of Alchemy exist.
PS: I´m still looking for pristine Vinyls as US-Version, Japan-Version, Canada-Version, Turkey-Version, Brazil-Version, and some other countries. 8)