A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Robson on October 03, 2021, 08:53:29 PM
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Turning points or historical moments. There are many such moments in the careers Mark Knopfler and dIRE sTRAITS. I am very curious your opinions.
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Do feel free to start the thread off with some ideas... :wave
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26.06.1977.
24.07.1977 :)
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And another one from 77
31.07.1977 :)
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16.03.1996 - Darling Pretty Single released
26.03.1996 - Release date of 'Golden Heart' and the break through for MK as a Solo Artist
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26.06.1977.
24.07.1977 :)
??
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First concert (Cafe Racers) First tapes.
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16.03.1996 - Darling Pretty Single released
26.03.1996 - Release date of 'Golden Heart' and the break through for MK as a Solo Artist
:thumbsup
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12.08.1949 — Mark Knopfler was born :lol
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12.08.1949 — Mark Knopfler was born :lol
12.12.1952 - David Knopfler was born..
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24th July 1977 - The demo tapes of five songs recorded: "Wild West End," "Sultans of Swing," "Down to the Waterline," "Sacred Loving" (a David Knopfler song), and "Water of Love."
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27 July 1977 - The demo tapes of five songs recorded: "Wild West End," "Sultans of Swing," "Down to the Waterline," "Sacred Loving" (a David Knopfler song), and "Water of Love."
24.07:)
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27 July 1977 - The demo tapes of five songs recorded: "Wild West End," "Sultans of Swing," "Down to the Waterline," "Sacred Loving" (a David Knopfler song), and "Water of Love."
24.07:)
Sorry yes it was the 24th and NOT the 27th July!! :wave
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Here you have a lot of turning points:
https://www.direstraits.com/about/
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An MK timeline but not date specific..
https://www.markknopfler.com/about/timeline/
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I didn't think about every album and about DS / MK calendar. First DS album was a turning point for sure, but not Communique. Making Movies was another turning point. Another example: The Notting Hillbillies, Golden Heart for sure.
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Mark decided to record film music of Local Hero - another turning point. But the next soundtracks were just a consequence. That's what I mean. But if the topic is weak, please delete it :)
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Mark decided to record the film music of Local Hero - another turning point. But the next soundtracks were just a consequence. That's what I mean. But if the topic is weak, please delete it :)
Kind of understand your reasoning but in theory each album/release has been a 'turning point' with regards MK. Each release has something different about them...
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I do not think so. For me, the turning point is something bigger. Another road MK. Something new. Of course, everyone has their opinion and it's ok on the forum, that's why I asked
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Disbanding Dire Straits and becoming a solo artist...
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Disbanding Dire Straits and becoming a solo artist...
And that is a specific thought.
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2019 when he announced his retirement at the DTRW tour.
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Disbanding Dire Straits and becoming a solo artist...
And that is a specific thought.
It is said it was announced in 1995 but I didnt found anything specific about that, just a mention on a DSIS newsletter where MK told Liz Whatley to close the DSIS service as DS are not going back.
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2019 when he announced his retirement at the DTRW tour.
I was thinking about it too.
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Disbanding Dire Straits and becoming a solo artist...
And that is a specific thought.
It is said it was announced in 1995 but I didnt found anything specific about that, just a mention on a DSIS newsletter where MK told Liz Whatley to close the DSIS service as DS are not going back.
It's true. There was never any official announcement. End of DS. There has been a mute.
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1985 was a turning point.
Like it or not, BiA transformed MK from a very successful musician into part of the rock elite along with Dylan, McCartney, Queen, Elton John, The Stones etc.
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1985 was a turning point.
Like it or not, BiA transformed MK from a very successful musician into part of the rock elite along with Dylan, McCartney, Queen, Elton John, The Stones etc.
And I also agree here :thumbsup
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30th May 2008.
Significant it was the first date because Mark had the pleasure of me in his audience.
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Personal thread? I like:) My date is June 10, 2001
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I think significant turning points are when MK switches to a new type of his favourite guitar because it affects the sound and therefore the music he produced.
So for example:
- switch from Fenders to Schecters (circa 1980)
- switch from Schecters to Pensa-Suhr (circa 1988)
- switch from Pensa to Les Paul (circa 1996)
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A very interesting observation koobaa :) :thumbsup
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I think significant turning points are when MK switches to a new type of his favourite guitar because it affects the sound and therefore the music he produced.
So for example:
- switch from Fenders to Schecters (circa 1980)
- switch from Schecters to Pensa-Suhr (circa 1988)
- switch from Pensa to Les Paul (circa 1996)
Good point! :thumbsup
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I think significant turning points are when MK switches to a new type of his favourite guitar because it affects the sound and therefore the music he produced.
So for example:
- switch from Fenders to Schecters (circa 1980)
- switch from Schecters to Pensa-Suhr (circa 1988)
- switch from Pensa to Les Paul (circa 1996)
And using Fender MK Signature Stratocaster's from 2003.....
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17/03/2003 - MK's accident (Breaking six ribs and his collarbone) - I'm of the thinking it changed his playing style.....
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17/03/2003 - MK's accident (Breaking six ribs and his collarbone) - I'm of the thinking it changed his playing style.....
That's true. An important fact.
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British Grove Studios.
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1989 - Notting Hillbillies formed and arguably a more relaxed MK evident in his playing...
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British Grove Studios.
2005...
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1989 - Notting Hillbillies formed and arguably a more relaxed MK evident in his playing...
Yes and this pedal steel guitar from Missing... album also a lot on every street.
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British Grove Studios.
2005...
:thumbsup
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1989 - Notting Hillbillies formed and arguably a more relaxed MK evident in his playing...
Yes and this pedal steel guitar from Missing... album also a lot on every street.
Mr Franklin on both albums!!
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1989 - Notting Hillbillies formed and arguably a more relaxed MK evident in his playing...
Yes and this pedal steel guitar from Missing... album also a lot on every street.
Mr Franklin on both albums!!
Exactly!
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17/03/2003 - MK's accident (Breaking six ribs and his collarbone) - I'm of the thinking it changed his playing style.....
I’d say the same. He was never the same after that (of course). A significant drop in energy.
I’d also say the OES tour made him another man.
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17/03/2003 - MK's accident (Breaking six ribs and his collarbone) - I'm of the thinking it changed his playing style.....
I’d say the same. He was never the same after that (of course). A significant drop in energy.
I’d also say the OES tour made him another man.
OES tour made him feel he had enough of the circus!!! DS had got too big by then and he didn't like it.
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I didn't think about every album and about DS / MK calendar. First DS album was a turning point for sure, but not Communique. Making Movies was another turning point. Another example: The Notting Hillbillies, Golden Heart for sure.
I tend to agree with this, of the six Dire Straits albums I'd argue that four can definitely be considered turning points - the first two you mentioned plus Love Over Gold (the biggest and most obvious change in musical style) and Brothers In Arms (unprecedented commercial success and several big hit songs). I agree that Communique wasn't a turning point, it is fairly similar in sound to the first album but didn't do as well commercially or critically. I'm not sure about On Every Street - it has a better case than Communique, as there is a noticeable country influence creeping in which foreshadows Golden Heart, but it feels more like an evolutionary step than a true turning point. I see Golden Heart as a big turning point not just because it was Mark's first solo album but also because there's a clear change in style with an unprecedented emphasis on love songs and sounds that would have sounded out of place on any Dire Straits album (for example, I think Darling Pretty would have fitted okay musically but the celtic intro and romantic lyrics give it a different feel from the band' style).
There isn't always a correlation between the biggest turning points and the best albums in my opinion, for example I think Sailing To Philadelphia is a stronger album than The Ragpicker's Dream but I definitely think the latter is one of the biggest turning points in his career as there is a significant shift in style from that album onwards - less rock and roll, more folk and blues, fewer long guitar solos, to name some of the more obvious changes. By contrast, Sailing To Philadelphia seems noticeably closer to the Dire Straits sound and feel than Golden Heart, let alone any of his later solo albums - I suppose a 'red herring' rather than a turning point. To use another example in Bob Dylan's discography I think Bringing It All Back Home is probably a more important turning point in the truest sense as his first electric album than either Highway 61 Revisited or Blonde On Blonde, but I would consider those two to be the better albums.
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It's great to read such considerations. And that's what I was thinking about on this topic:)
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The release of the first Dire Straits album is a turning point because it made Mark a genuine recording artist, songwriter and guitar player, and it meant he could focus on music as a full time career.
Bob Dylan asking Mark to play on Slow Train Coming is also a turning point, being asked personally by his songwriting hero so early in his career must have blown Mark away, it lifted his profile hugely.
During the recording for Making Movies, David Knopfler left the band, this must have had been a turning point for Mark, he no longer had the sibling rivalry to contend with, and it meant he was the only person called Knopfler in the band!!!
Recording his first film score for Local Hero is a turning point as it gave him a different outlook and focus, he could do something away from the group as a sideline, and he found he is very good at it. Film score composing is a different approach from what he had been doing up to the point in his career.
Getting a call from Chet Atkins, Mark had already met and worked with his songwriting hero, now it was the turn of his guitar playing hero, and again it was his hero that approached him, Mark was already on his way to being a guitar playing legend, but to then have someone of the stature of Chet Atkins praise you highly and want to work with you must have been a huge compliment for Mark, it also must have made Mark raise his playing abilities further, we know Mark is self taught, but if he ever came close to having a tutor, then it was Chet.
The release of Brothers In Arms, it made Dire Straits one of the biggest musical acts of all time, if that is not a turning point, I don't know what is.
The On Every Street tour signaling the end of Dire Straits, by this time Mark had enough of the size of the band and the size of the tours, he decided to be a full time solo artist, so this was a turning point both personally and professionally.
The release of Golden Heart was another turning point for Mark, as this proved he didn't need the Dire Straits name, he could still make it under his own name.
The death of Chet Atkins in 2001 had a huge impact on Mark, and I believe a turning point in his guitar playing, as he didn't need to prove anything anymore, he didn't need to be good enough to keep up with Chet anymore, and meant he could now focus on being the song writer he always believed he wants to be.
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"David Knopfler left the band, this must have had been a turning point for Mark, he no longer had the sibling rivalry to contend with, and it meant he was the only person called Knopfler in the band!!!
I thought about it for a long time
"The death of Chet Atkins in 2001 had a huge impact on Mark, and I believe a turning point in his guitar playing, as he didn't need to prove anything anymore, he didn't need to be good enough to keep up with Chet anymore, and meant he could now focus on being the song writer he always believed he wants to be.
A very interesting observation. About Bob Dylan too.
Thank you gjamesfloyd. I agree with everything.
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"The On Every Street tour signaling the end of Dire Straits, by this time Mark had enough of the size of the band and the size of the tours, he decided to be a full time solo artist, so this was a turning point both personally and professionally.
I have doubts here :) We didn't know about this during tour. History has shown that Mark had enough.
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We can only asses what a turning point is by looking back in history, so I would say it is, I am sure in his own mind, he knew it was the end.
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You're right. From the perspective of time - this was a turning point.
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The release of the first Dire Straits album is a turning point because it made Mark a genuine recording artist, songwriter and guitar player, and it meant he could focus on music as a full time career.
Bob Dylan asking Mark to play on Slow Train Coming is also a turning point, being asked personally by his songwriting hero so early in his career must have blown Mark away, it lifted his profile hugely.
During the recording for Making Movies, David Knopfler left the band, this must have had been a turning point for Mark, he no longer had the sibling rivalry to contend with, and it meant he was the only person called Knopfler in the band!!!
Recording his first film score for Local Hero is a turning point as it gave him a different outlook and focus, he could do something away from the group as a sideline, and he found he is very good at it. Film score composing is a different approach from what he had been doing up to the point in his career.
Getting a call from Chet Atkins, Mark had already met and worked with his songwriting hero, now it was the turn of his guitar playing hero, and again it was his hero that approached him, Mark was already on his way to being a guitar playing legend, but to then have someone of the stature of Chet Atkins praise you highly and want to work with you must have been a huge compliment for Mark, it also must have made Mark raise his playing abilities further, we know Mark is self taught, but if he ever came close to having a tutor, then it was Chet.
The release of Brothers In Arms, it made Dire Straits one of the biggest musical acts of all time, if that is not a turning point, I don't know what is.
The On Every Street tour signaling the end of Dire Straits, by this time Mark had enough of the size of the band and the size of the tours, he decided to be a full time solo artist, so this was a turning point both personally and professionally.
The release of Golden Heart was another turning point for Mark, as this proved he didn't need the Dire Straits name, he could still make it under his own name.
The death of Chet Atkins in 2001 had a huge impact on Mark, and I believe a turning point in his guitar playing, as he didn't need to prove anything anymore, he didn't need to be good enough to keep up with Chet anymore, and meant he could now focus on being the song writer he always believed he wants to be.
Some great points here qjamesfloyd....
I particulary like the reference to Chet in that it's obvious MK looked up to Chet and I think Chet looked up to MK if you know what I mean?! there was great affection between them...
Of course the references to Chet from MK live on through both his playing and songwriting - 'I'm picking my way out of here - One song at a time'......
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I think significant turning points are when MK switches to a new type of his favourite guitar because it affects the sound and therefore the music he produced.
So for example:
- switch from Fenders to Schecters (circa 1980)
- switch from Schecters to Pensa-Suhr (circa 1988)
- switch from Pensa to Les Paul (circa 1996)
:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup +1000
I tried to sum up his different eras regarding guitars : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/mark-knopfler-70-ans-et-toutes-ses-grattes/
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2000 when Ed was fired. it changed a lot of things imho
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The release of the first Dire Straits album is a turning point because it made Mark a genuine recording artist, songwriter and guitar player, and it meant he could focus on music as a full time career.
Bob Dylan asking Mark to play on Slow Train Coming is also a turning point, being asked personally by his songwriting hero so early in his career must have blown Mark away, it lifted his profile hugely.
During the recording for Making Movies, David Knopfler left the band, this must have had been a turning point for Mark, he no longer had the sibling rivalry to contend with, and it meant he was the only person called Knopfler in the band!!!
Recording his first film score for Local Hero is a turning point as it gave him a different outlook and focus, he could do something away from the group as a sideline, and he found he is very good at it. Film score composing is a different approach from what he had been doing up to the point in his career.
Getting a call from Chet Atkins, Mark had already met and worked with his songwriting hero, now it was the turn of his guitar playing hero, and again it was his hero that approached him, Mark was already on his way to being a guitar playing legend, but to then have someone of the stature of Chet Atkins praise you highly and want to work with you must have been a huge compliment for Mark, it also must have made Mark raise his playing abilities further, we know Mark is self taught, but if he ever came close to having a tutor, then it was Chet.
The release of Brothers In Arms, it made Dire Straits one of the biggest musical acts of all time, if that is not a turning point, I don't know what is.
The On Every Street tour signaling the end of Dire Straits, by this time Mark had enough of the size of the band and the size of the tours, he decided to be a full time solo artist, so this was a turning point both personally and professionally.
The release of Golden Heart was another turning point for Mark, as this proved he didn't need the Dire Straits name, he could still make it under his own name.
The death of Chet Atkins in 2001 had a huge impact on Mark, and I believe a turning point in his guitar playing, as he didn't need to prove anything anymore, he didn't need to be good enough to keep up with Chet anymore, and meant he could now focus on being the song writer he always believed he wants to be.
Some great points here qjamesfloyd....
I particulary like the reference to Chet in that it's obvious MK looked up to Chet and I think Chet looked up to MK if you know what I mean?! there was great affection between them...
Of course the references to Chet from MK live on through both his playing and songwriting - 'I'm picking my way out of here - One song at a time'......
And yet he wasn’t made a CGP like Tommy E was…
Unless I’m misinformed?
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Mark's too cool for CGP, he's more in the "Sir" territory. CGP was intended for underrated and fabulous musicians, not for huge stars like MK. Besides, although he's a great guitar player, he's not on the level of technical greatness of Chet, Tommy, Jerry, Marcel, and others. I remember Mark said that Chet left him a pile of music books and notes, and he was like "I guess I should check it out now" after Chet died.
2000 when Ed was fired. it changed a lot of things imho
Oh, yes...
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I asked Paul Yandell why MK wasn’t made CGP.
He said it would have happened if Chet hadn’t died.
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I asked Paul Yandell why MK wasn’t made CGP.
He said it would have happened if Chet hadn’t died.
That's interesting since Paul himself got CGP only after his own death (well, not after, but in the same year) and the announcement that no more CGPs will be given. I mean Chet had plenty of time to "certify" MK, and Mark's playing hasn't changed that much in the span of 15 years or so of their friendship. But if Paul knew it for a fact, it makes it kind of sad that it never happened, but at the same time shows that it's just a friendly decoration that really doesn't mean anything. Just for fun! CGP or not, MK is a guitar hero anyway.
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But
I remember Chet Atkins album C. G. P :) Mark played Imagine.
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But
I remember Chet Atkins album C. G. P :) Mark played Imagine.
That's in and of itself better than any award whatsoever :lol
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I thought exactly the same:)
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I guess one really big turningpoint was the making of Making Movies. That’s when MK went solo IMO, the sound changed and he started hiring session musicians for records and tours.
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But
I remember Chet Atkins album C. G. P :) Mark played Imagine.
That's in and of itself better than any award whatsoever :lol
Yes, you are right!
I'm sure he's proud of any recognition he gets, but he's not the person who chases after an award.
It's not that important to him.
Great thread, Robson! :thumbsup
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But
I remember Chet Atkins album C. G. P :) Mark played Imagine.
That's in and of itself better than any award whatsoever :lol
Yes, you are right!
I'm sure he's proud of any recognition he gets, but he's not the person who chases after an award.
It's not that important to him.
Great thread, Robson! :thumbsup
Which is probably another reason he didn't go to collect the DS hall of fame award either....MK is a very humble chap...
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But
I remember Chet Atkins album C. G. P :) Mark played Imagine.
That's in and of itself better than any award whatsoever :lol
Yes, you are right!
I'm sure he's proud of any recognition he gets, but he's not the person who chases after an award.
It's not that important to him.
Great thread, Robson! :thumbsup
Thank you. I'm glad :)
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I guess one really big turningpoint was the making of Making Movies. That’s when MK went solo IMO, the sound changed and he started hiring session musicians for records and tours.
this is a very interesting thought. The transformation of the Dire Straits band into a Mark Knopfler solo entourage happened much earlier than 1995. This is what David Knopfler underlined as reason for leaving. Mark needed a vehicle for his stuff, he was not ready to build together, like e.g. Queen.
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I think significant turning points are when MK switches to a new type of his favourite guitar because it affects the sound and therefore the music he produced.
So for example:
- switch from Fenders to Schecters (circa 1980)
- switch from Schecters to Pensa-Suhr (circa 1988)
- switch from Pensa to Les Paul (circa 1996)
:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup +1000
I tried to sum up his different eras regarding guitars : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/mark-knopfler-70-ans-et-toutes-ses-grattes/
Excellent summary, JF!
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I think significant turning points are when MK switches to a new type of his favourite guitar because it affects the sound and therefore the music he produced.
So for example:
- switch from Fenders to Schecters (circa 1980)
- switch from Schecters to Pensa-Suhr (circa 1988)
- switch from Pensa to Les Paul (circa 1996)
:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup +1000
I tried to sum up his different eras regarding guitars : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/mark-knopfler-70-ans-et-toutes-ses-grattes/
Excellent summary, JF!
thanks Kooba
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I guess one really big turningpoint was the making of Making Movies. That’s when MK went solo IMO, the sound changed and he started hiring session musicians for records and tours.
this is a very interesting thought. The transformation of the Dire Straits band into a Mark Knopfler solo entourage happened much earlier than 1995. This is what David Knopfler underlined as reason for leaving. Mark needed a vehicle for his stuff, he was not ready to build together, like e.g. Queen.
100% agree
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I think the 2003 motorcycle accident was a major turning point. I feel like we had two different MKs before and after like after 9/11 we had two different worlds. When you realize you're just a human and can die at any point, no matter how much money and fame you've got, that's refreshing.
But, with that said, almost any major 'accident' in life is a turning point, whether it's the death of a relative, a divorce, a wedding, it's all turning points.
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That's true. A turning point beyond his control.
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I think meeting Steve'a Phillips'a was an important turning point in MK career.
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I think meeting Steve'a Phillips'a was an important turning point in MK career.
Because he met Steve or he bought his first resonator?
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Steve taught him a lot.
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Exactly! Mark was 20 years old and knew early country music. He played a lot with Steve Phillips, they listened to many records ...
"Steve'a house has become a blues university for me ..."
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I guess one really big turningpoint was the making of Making Movies. That’s when MK went solo IMO, the sound changed and he started hiring session musicians for records and tours.
this is a very interesting thought. The transformation of the Dire Straits band into a Mark Knopfler solo entourage happened much earlier than 1995. This is what David Knopfler underlined as reason for leaving. Mark needed a vehicle for his stuff, he was not ready to build together, like e.g. Queen.
I agree too. I saw this thread a while ago and have been thinking about it. Most of the turning points musically as you might expect are when people have either left or come on board. David leaving allowed flexibility, Pick leaving changed the dynamic to more traditional rock - Alan added breadth and the move to On Every Street was a massive change in sound; for me losing Terry from the tour was not positive but this is all personal taste.
I hold the personal and very unpopular view (as a Dire Straits fan more than a Mark Knopfler fan) that his music and songs were (for me) much better and broader in dimension that songs in his solo career - could that be because he has had a relatively static and stable line up since 96, and since then the dynamic has been much more clear cut and contractual with his musicians? This leads me to believe that other members of the band in Dire Straits had much more of a role in making the songs what they turned out to be than they get credit for; indeed other than Money for Nothing, no one else gets any writing credit.
Mark is certainly a great songwriter and guitarist of the highest order, but to me, not entirely to the extent that he now brands himself in respect of songwriting. He has got to where he has now (or at least to his solo career in 1996) not just because of his supreme musical gifts, but also in part as a result of the other people involved in steering the Dire Straits vehicle to that point in time. I don't think the latter is recognised enough.
All entirely my personal view and no disrespect intended to others!
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I think meeting Steve'a Phillips'a was an important turning point in MK career.
Because he met Steve or he bought his first resonator?
the first National guitar Mark bought was not Steve's one.
Mark first bought the Tricone in Wales in 1969, and later he bought Steve's style O
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/la-guitare-national-steel-de-mark-knopfler/#Les_2_guitares_National_de_Mark_Knopfler
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Great article there JF, thanks!
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I think meeting Steve'a Phillips'a was an important turning point in MK career.
Because he met Steve or he bought his first resonator?
the first National guitar Mark bought was not Steve's one.
Mark first bought the Tricone in Wales in 1969, and later he bought Steve's style O
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/la-guitare-national-steel-de-mark-knopfler/#Les_2_guitares_National_de_Mark_Knopfler
Oh gosh! I’ve been massively misinformed. Sorry for getting such a key MK fact wrong.