A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: MagicElliott on April 06, 2022, 03:41:37 PM
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Thought this might be an interesting discussion.
Going by the latest line up, who do you think is the best musician? I have to say, I suspect it’s NOT Mark. I having a sneaking suspicion that at least some of the band might vote for Jim Cox-purely cuz Guy refers to him as the best musician he’s ever worked with.
For my money, I half suspect it might be one of the Folkies. Something tells me Mike above John but I’m not sure why I think that.
Any thoughts?
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I voted for Glenn Worf. He understands the soul of the songs. Brillant musician.
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I was glad when Danny Cummings returned to the band but the whole band is fantastic.
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If we are talking about the best musician, does that include songwriting? If that is the case then it has to be Mark. Not only does he write all of the lyrics, but the music too, not to mention his guitar-playing and voice. So it has to be MK for me, even though the rest of the band are are fantastic individually.
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In a poll to vote the best musician in Mark's band, it's not fair to include Mark. Doing that, makes this poll a total nonsense.
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In a poll to vote the best musician in Mark's band, it's not fair to include Mark. Doing that, makes this poll a total nonsense.
I tend to agree with you, jbaent. Perhaps it would have been better to just have the rest of the band in the poll - it would be fairer without Mark.
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This guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrF0NW_TNKU
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I wouldn’t have Mark as an option, it’s his band. That being said MK at his peak was unreachable, in a league of his own, and it lasted for a very long time. Now it’s pretty clear, at least to me, if he happened to be just a regular member of the band he’d be its weakest end. Time is merciless.
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I wouldn’t have Mark as an option, it’s his band. That being said MK at his peak was unreachable, in a league of his own, and it lasted for a very long time. Now it’s pretty clear, at least to me, if he happened to be just a regular member of the band he’d be its weakest end. Time is merciless.
As I said in a previous post, Mark's songwriting - lyrics and music, has to be taken into consideration, as well as his guitar-playing and singing, all of which wouldn't make him anywhere near the weakest member of the band! Even so, when I go to a Mark Knopfler concert I know that I'm seeing an exeedingly talented band!
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I wouldn’t have Mark as an option, it’s his band. That being said MK at his peak was unreachable, in a league of his own, and it lasted for a very long time. Now it’s pretty clear, at least to me, if he happened to be just a regular member of the band he’d be its weakest end. Time is merciless.
As I said in a previous post, Mark's songwriting - lyrics and music, has to be taken into consideration, as well as his guitar-playing and singing, all of which wouldn't make him anywhere near the weakest member of the band! Even so, when I go to a Mark Knopfler concert I know that I'm seeing an exeedingly talented band!
Can I offer an alternative opinion.
Songwriting and musicianship are 2 separate disciplines. Great musicians do not necessarily make great songwriters and vice versa.
Discuss ;)
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I wouldn’t have Mark as an option, it’s his band. That being said MK at his peak was unreachable, in a league of his own, and it lasted for a very long time. Now it’s pretty clear, at least to me, if he happened to be just a regular member of the band he’d be its weakest end. Time is merciless.
As I said in a previous post, Mark's songwriting - lyrics and music, has to be taken into consideration, as well as his guitar-playing and singing, all of which wouldn't make him anywhere near the weakest member of the band! Even so, when I go to a Mark Knopfler concert I know that I'm seeing an exeedingly talented band!
Can I offer an alternative opinion.
Songwriting and musicianship are 2 separate disciplines. Great musicians do not necessarily make great songwriters and vice versa.
Discuss ;)
I'm pretty sure in the Tin Pan Alley were some songwriters who never played an instrument. Jim Morrison never played anything, and yet, what a brilliant songwriter he was. Absolutely, I'd add there are actually three disciplines: musicianship, songwriting, and improvisation.
You can be a brilliant classical musician, but never be able to improvise a single note. You can have rudimentary knowledge about playing but improvise like God. Or you can have no both skills and still compose brilliant melodies. Mark, however, excels in all three disciplines and hence the diamond of the industry...
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I wouldn’t have Mark as an option, it’s his band. That being said MK at his peak was unreachable, in a league of his own, and it lasted for a very long time. Now it’s pretty clear, at least to me, if he happened to be just a regular member of the band he’d be its weakest end. Time is merciless.
As I said in a previous post, Mark's songwriting - lyrics and music, has to be taken into consideration, as well as his guitar-playing and singing, all of which wouldn't make him anywhere near the weakest member of the band! Even so, when I go to a Mark Knopfler concert I know that I'm seeing an exeedingly talented band!
Can I offer an alternative opinion.
Songwriting and musicianship are 2 separate disciplines. Great musicians do not necessarily make great songwriters and vice versa.
Discuss ;)
I'm pretty sure in the Tin Pan Alley were some songwriters who never played an instrument. Jim Morrison never played anything, and yet, what a brilliant songwriter he was. Absolutely, I'd add there are actually three disciplines: musicianship, songwriting, and improvisation.
You can be a brilliant classical musician, but never be able to improvise a single note. You can have rudimentary knowledge about playing but improvise like God. Or you can have no both skills and still compose brilliant melodies. Mark, however, excels in all three disciplines and hence the diamond of the industry...
Do you really think Mark is a great improviser? That's interesting, as much as I love him and his music I always felt his playing was somewhat scripted and extremely polished, more akin to your classical musician analogy.
I'm not saying mk is a poor improviser, I'm just not sure he excells in that department.
Really interesting opinion though....
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I wouldn’t have Mark as an option, it’s his band. That being said MK at his peak was unreachable, in a league of his own, and it lasted for a very long time. Now it’s pretty clear, at least to me, if he happened to be just a regular member of the band he’d be its weakest end. Time is merciless.
As I said in a previous post, Mark's songwriting - lyrics and music, has to be taken into consideration, as well as his guitar-playing and singing, all of which wouldn't make him anywhere near the weakest member of the band! Even so, when I go to a Mark Knopfler concert I know that I'm seeing an exeedingly talented band!
Can I offer an alternative opinion.
Songwriting and musicianship are 2 separate disciplines. Great musicians do not necessarily make great songwriters and vice versa.
Discuss ;)
I'm pretty sure in the Tin Pan Alley were some songwriters who never played an instrument. Jim Morrison never played anything, and yet, what a brilliant songwriter he was. Absolutely, I'd add there are actually three disciplines: musicianship, songwriting, and improvisation.
You can be a brilliant classical musician, but never be able to improvise a single note. You can have rudimentary knowledge about playing but improvise like God. Or you can have no both skills and still compose brilliant melodies. Mark, however, excels in all three disciplines and hence the diamond of the industry...
Very well written :thumbsup
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I'm pretty sure in the Tin Pan Alley were some songwriters who never played an instrument. Jim Morrison never played anything, and yet, what a brilliant songwriter he was. Absolutely, I'd add there are actually three disciplines: musicianship, songwriting, and improvisation.
You can be a brilliant classical musician, but never be able to improvise a single note. You can have rudimentary knowledge about playing but improvise like God. Or you can have no both skills and still compose brilliant melodies. Mark, however, excels in all three disciplines and hence the diamond of the industry...
Do you really think Mark is a great improviser? That's interesting, as much as I love him and his music I always felt his playing was somewhat scripted and extremely polished, more akin to your classical musician analogy.
I'm not saying mk is a poor improviser, I'm just not sure he excells in that department.
Really interesting opinion though....
Well, I know a thing or two about this, as I'm exactly the first type. I can't improvise at all, and throughout my life, I spent a lot of time and money trying to learn this craft and never succeeded. I gave up on learning improvising, and I've met quite a lot of people who may be playing not as advanced as me, but they are really good improvisers. I, however, seem like have a complete improvisation block.
Mark is a brilliant improviser. I studied a lot of his playing and surely he's as talented as a songwriter as an improviser. He's a brilliant guitar player overall. Maybe he's not technically mind-blowing, he's not Steve Vai or something, but overall he's amazing.
Even "scripted" improvisation is also not easy. In fact, all improvisation is scripted anyway... Like the way we speak, we speak with words and letters that are already known, it's just a new arrangement of those that we make up on the spot and it's called improvisation. I improvise this post right now.
Mark, in his own songs, taught himself a very unique style of improvisation, the way he uses intervals, certain traits of his sound, it's not all about fingers and "touch". That's just another little thing that tribute bands can't recreate. He's an excellent improviser for his songs, he's an excellent singer for his songs and the best rhythm guitar player for his songs and the best lead guitar player for his songs. That's why he's so unique and practically uncopyable.
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Beautiful words. I absolutely agree.
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Mark was a brilliant improviser. He’s always had his signature licks in every song, those he would play every night as signs to the band, but everything in between seemed very relaxed and free to my ears.
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Mark is definitely the more complete musician given the scope and quality of his work. Judged by his skills on the guitar alone, he doesn't rank all that high though, but then again he never set out be an instrumentalist.
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I think this would be better if we voted one out each week.
For me the songwriting would make Mark the winner but if we are to base it in the here and now it would be much closer.
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Okay, okay! I’ve shot myself in the foot by including Mark in the poll.
I meant it purely through musicianship, not song writing.
I remember Guy saying that Mike McG had a rare ability to learn a song faster than you can play it to him….this is the kind of thing I’m trying to describe!
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Okay, okay! I’ve shot myself in the foot by including Mark in the poll.
I meant it purely through musicianship, not song writing.
I remember Guy saying that Mike McG had a rare ability to learn a song faster than you can play it to him….this is the kind of thing I’m trying to describe!
I still stand with Glenn. I think he's the guy. Mark has a strong bond with bass players it seems, and the fact he had only two constant bass players, one for each era, says it all. The bass player is the foundation upon which everything else is built on. Then you can add drums, keyboards, and guitars. And Glenn seems like an extremely capable guy as he even writes all the charts down all the time.
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Glenn Worf is winning, as MK doesn't count.
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I wouldn’t have Mark as an option, it’s his band. That being said MK at his peak was unreachable, in a league of his own, and it lasted for a very long time. Now it’s pretty clear, at least to me, if he happened to be just a regular member of the band he’d be its weakest end. Time is merciless.
As I said in a previous post, Mark's songwriting - lyrics and music, has to be taken into consideration, as well as his guitar-playing and singing, all of which wouldn't make him anywhere near the weakest member of the band! Even so, when I go to a Mark Knopfler concert I know that I'm seeing an exeedingly talented band!
I see it like you, superval99!
To me, Mark is the greatest musician and the great guys in his band were handpicked by him. They are all brilliant musicians and know exactly how to turn Mark's musical thoughts into music.
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(MK)
Glenn Worf
Richard Bennett
Ianto
Jim Cox
GF
Folkies
Danny
Brassies
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I wouldn’t have Mark as an option, it’s his band. That being said MK at his peak was unreachable, in a league of his own, and it lasted for a very long time. Now it’s pretty clear, at least to me, if he happened to be just a regular member of the band he’d be its weakest end. Time is merciless.
As I said in a previous post, Mark's songwriting - lyrics and music, has to be taken into consideration, as well as his guitar-playing and singing, all of which wouldn't make him anywhere near the weakest member of the band! Even so, when I go to a Mark Knopfler concert I know that I'm seeing an exeedingly talented band!
I see it like you, superval99!
To me, Mark is the greatest musician and the great guys in his band were handpicked by him. They are all brilliant musicians and know exactly how to turn Mark's musical thoughts into music.
Well, I said ‘if Mark was just a regular member of a band’ didn’t I…
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Mark said in one of the interviews that he is the weakest link in the band and makes mistakes. But the vocalist is always right. I really like his humor. :)
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Mark said in one of the interviews that he is the weakest link in the band and makes mistakes. But the vocalist is always right. I really like his humor. :)
Me too! :wave
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For me it's Mark by a mile, not that the rest of the band aren't great, they are, and as a complete group of musicians they are about as good as it gets. For me, being a musician is not just about how you play an instrument, but with Mark he does that and composes songs that have exceptional lyrics of depth and meaning, writes film music instrumentals of real beauty, plays the guitar with such a unique style and approach, and has one of the best touch and feel on the instrument, and seems to find notes that most others can't, to add to all that, he is a first class producer and arranger and a very humble person with no ego compared to some other musicians, he commands a huge respect from the music industry and has released album of a very high quality for his whole career, something most of his contemporaries have not done. In my view, all of that, and more is why I think Mark is the best musician in his latest or any of his previous bands.
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I agree with every word :thumbsup
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There is nothing more to add! MK is a genius!
Great post, qjamesfloyd! :clap
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Wow, it is really hard to point that perfect musician out, because all of them are masterclass-musicians, incl. Mark.
I left Mark out, sorry dear Mark, but you are a class of your own. ;D
I have voted for Guy. Guy Fletcher is also a very instinctive and very versatile musician, whith his heart on the right side. He feels and lives the music, the arrangements, the compositions, his instruments, the interaction with the whole band, and he is a very polite and handsome human beeing. I have met him in Cologne at the Hyatt-Regency-Hotel in around 2010 worldtour. He came out of the main entrance of that well known hotel and he recognized me with my record-sleeves. We got together and had a very cool talking, and he signed some of my records. He also took some photos from the hotel and the rhine-shore-area for his Guy Fletcher tour-diaries. He was so cool and relaxed. Fantastic. 8)
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Wow, it is really hard to point that perfect musician out, because all of them are masterclass-musicians, incl. Mark.
I left Mark out, sorry dear Mark, but you are a class of your own. ;D
I have voted for Guy. Guy Fletcher is also a very instinctive and very versatile musician, whith his heart on the right side. He feels and lives the music, the arrangements, the compositions, his instruments, the interaction with the whole band, and he is a very polite and handsome human beeing. I have met him in Cologne at the Hyatt-Regency-Hotel in around 2010 worldtour. He came out of the main entrance of that well known hotel and he recognized me with my record-sleeves. We got together and had a very cool talking, and he signed some of my records. He also took some photos from the hotel and the rhine-shore-area for his Guy Fletcher tour-diaries. He was so cool and relaxed. Fantastic. 8)
Yes I agree Guy is lovely and really easy to talk to. I’ve talked with him after a few Blues Club gigs and he’s very approachable. .
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In a poll to vote the best musician in Mark's band, it's not fair to include Mark. Doing that, makes this poll a total nonsense.
gotta agree here. was surprised. and then voted on him....lol
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People voting for MK, I assume you mean historically? Or do you actually believe MK was the best musician on display at the 2019 live shows?
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So I’ve acknowledged I made a mistake in including MK. But I’m really really surprised that I’m the only one who voted for Mike Mc.
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People voting for MK, I assume you mean historically? Or do you actually believe MK was the best musician on display at the 2019 live shows?
That would be voting hysterically, not historically! :lol
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People voting for MK, I assume you mean historically? Or do you actually believe MK was the best musician on display at the 2019 live shows?
That would be voting hysterically, not historically! :lol
i did. am known for my hysterical behaviour.
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People voting for MK, I assume you mean historically? Or do you actually believe MK was the best musician on display at the 2019 live shows?
That would be voting hysterically, not historically! :lol
i did. am known for my hysterical behaviour.
Me too! ;D
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When I look to the results, I search for the second best, as I don't think MK must be considered as part of his band, and even that, I don't think he's best musician that any of them.
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Another poll that I can't bring myself to pick one above another. :smack
The whole band are at the top of their individual games, each is a recognised recognised master of their chosen instrument(s) and I don't think it's fair to choose one above the rest, even if there are areas where they "overlap" . To use Richard as an example- at age 70 he is still practicing diligently and learning new stuff to improve his playing - just amazing dedication !
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Another poll that I can't bring myself to pick one above another. :smack
The whole band are at the top of their individual games, each is a recognised recognised master of their chosen instrument(s) and I don't think it's fair to choose one above the rest, even if there are areas where they "overlap" . To use Richard as an example- at age 70 he is still practicing diligently and learning new stuff to improve his playing - just amazing dedication !
I’ve been thinking about Richard a lot recently as I’ve watched clips from the Tracker tour. He’s an incredible man and the 2015 tour indicated it so well. Just consider the first three songs. I know but everyone liked Broken Bones as an opener but Richard’s Wah-Wah part and solo part way through was great. Then into a three chord song that he could have played in his sleep (Corned Beef City) and then an intricate fingerpicking acoustic part in Privateering. Add to that songs like Mighty Man in which his acoustic part is barely noticeable unless you are listening for it and then you realise how good it is.
He really is the consummate professional.
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I didn't include Mark in my choice,
My choice was Richard, His guitar parts are absolute perfection live. His sound is perfect and his timing spot on every time. He never over plays and plays the right part for the song every time. An example that I think is so underrated is his solo in the live versions of Romeo and Juliet. It would be so hard to recreate that in my opinion with that big sound and the notes ringing clearly. A master guitarist as MK has said!
Very difficult choice though, Jim and Glenn Worf almost equal 2nds to me.