A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: hunter on August 15, 2023, 04:09:08 PM
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It's been a while since I read interviews from that time, and I haven't read Illsley's book, but what were Mark's reasons to record again with DS? I watched an interview with Chuck Ainlay recently who said Mark said to him that "after this album [OES] there won't be more DS albums" and asked whether Chuck would be interested in working with him on solo projects. I mean, after BIA, he was sick of the media attention and the large-scale operation that DS entailed, so why would he want to go back to all of that, even when he had the end of DS in his mind? Contractual fulfilment? Escape from the difficult situation at home? I can't even imagine embarking on such a large-scale recording and tour with that frame of mind ...
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All the reasons you give and may add that after several years doing "side" projects he had the time to rest, he felt now ready to bring the "heavy truck" back and he had material for another DS album as well.
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Contractual fulfillment for sure is a strong reason. I wonder though if no touring, or at least touring on a smaller scale, was an option at all.
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DS never toured on a smaller scale :)
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DS never toured on a smaller scale :)
I know, but as we know that Mark didn't really want to go through with this, I was just wondering if DS could have recorded the album and fulfilled the obligations without touring, or at least something on a lesser scale than the BIA tour ha-ha. Since the idea never was to really relaunch DS, then the huge OES tour doesn't make sense.
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We don't know how much he was interested or not by bringing Dire Straits back to OES.
Maybe he did not know himself until some point...
As Mark said in april 1992 to a reporter, you really have to want to do it.
So Mark had some motivation to do a tour that big.
Problem is that things did not get that well.
On the opposite, during the GH era he was falling in love.
He has still to fight for overtaking control but he was in a positive mind, he was not run by saddness.
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We don't know how much he was interested or not by bringing Dire Straits back to OES.
Maybe he did not know himself until some point...
As Mark said in april 1992 to a reporter, you really have to want to do it.
So Mark had some motivation to do a tour that big.
Problem is that things did not get that well.
On the opposite, during the GH era he was falling in love.
He has still to fight for overtaking control but he was in a positive mind, he was not run by saddness.
True, we don't know how interested or not he was, but since, according to Chuck Ainlay, Mark already was looking past DS and at a solo career when they were recording OES, it is very likely his heart wasn't into it. At least not the touring part. But who knows, maybe there was a moment there when he was excited about the idea? John Illsley was surprised though (if I remember correctly from an interview) when he met Mark for a meal and Mark said he had a batch of new songs and asked what John thought about getting the band together again. I'm just trying to figure out if Mark actually wanted this or if he simply had to (contract).
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I shall not forget that John Illsley did (technically) not match Mark's expectations as a bass player.
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This is something I would looooove to ask Mark if I ever had a chance. The Police disbanded after their last album and tour, and Mark decided to push it forward with Dire Straits. To me, it's more noble and "badass" to end on the most successful album. It makes sense to end things on the highest point, rather than continue milking the thing for what it is worth. Mark could've easily launched a proper solo career at this point, and doing it "for contractual" reasons seems strange for a guy who always barged about nothing and nobody having any interference with his work.
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Maybe he needed a confirmation for himself that DS was done. Remember he was divorcing at the time so maybe it was a mix of reasons, having an excuse for being far from home, and at the same time find out if he still wants to keep the band going on or pursue a solo career.
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As mentioned, I haven't read John's book. He didn't mention anything about this in it?
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Here's a nice interview I never seen before. It sheds a lot of light on Mark's mindset at the time. This part is interesting:
RS: Is Dire Straits nowadays, let's be realistic about this, is it really a vehicle for Mark Knopfler, or is it still a coherent band?
MK: Oh yeah, I mean, I wouldn't write... if I'd written all those tunes and wanted to record 'em another way I would have done it, I mean no sweat at all, I would have just done it. But I find, I think, with all the other work that I do, hanging around with the Hillbilly thing, with Brendan, people like that, I get plenty of outlets, more than enough for a healthy boy. I'm not looking for anything else at the moment; I mean, certainly I wouldn't be *that* interested in doing solo records - it's more fun in a band anyway. You get all the best jokes. If you're on your own... I just wouldn't like to ride around the world, when it was time to play, with a bunch of hired guns.
https://www.odabasi.net/dsint3.htm (https://www.odabasi.net/dsint3.htm)
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This is something I would looooove to ask Mark if I ever had a chance. The Police disbanded after their last album and tour, and Mark decided to push it forward with Dire Straits. To me, it's more noble and "badass" to end on the most successful album. It makes sense to end things on the highest point, rather than continue milking the thing for what it is worth. Mark could've easily launched a proper solo career at this point, and doing it "for contractual" reasons seems strange for a guy who always barged about nothing and nobody having any interference with his work.
i for one am happy OES was made. some absolute gems on it.
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A great article from after 2018 (can't find the date, but the RRHF is mentioned) which reviews OES, some of Mark's possible motives for reforming the band, and also a general analysis of Mark: https://www.pastpri.me/home/dire-straits-on-every-street
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I also never understood the 'produced by Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits'.
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Here's a nice interview I never seen before. It sheds a lot of light on Mark's mindset at the time. This part is interesting:
RS: Is Dire Straits nowadays, let's be realistic about this, is it really a vehicle for Mark Knopfler, or is it still a coherent band?
MK: Oh yeah, I mean, I wouldn't write... if I'd written all those tunes and wanted to record 'em another way I would have done it, I mean no sweat at all, I would have just done it. But I find, I think, with all the other work that I do, hanging around with the Hillbilly thing, with Brendan, people like that, I get plenty of outlets, more than enough for a healthy boy. I'm not looking for anything else at the moment; I mean, certainly I wouldn't be *that* interested in doing solo records - it's more fun in a band anyway. You get all the best jokes. If you're on your own... I just wouldn't like to ride around the world, when it was time to play, with a bunch of hired guns.
https://www.odabasi.net/dsint3.htm (https://www.odabasi.net/dsint3.htm)
"I just wouldn't like to ride around the world, when it was time to play, with a bunch of hired guns."
LOL
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Here's a nice interview I never seen before. It sheds a lot of light on Mark's mindset at the time. This part is interesting:
RS: Is Dire Straits nowadays, let's be realistic about this, is it really a vehicle for Mark Knopfler, or is it still a coherent band?
MK: Oh yeah, I mean, I wouldn't write... if I'd written all those tunes and wanted to record 'em another way I would have done it, I mean no sweat at all, I would have just done it. But I find, I think, with all the other work that I do, hanging around with the Hillbilly thing, with Brendan, people like that, I get plenty of outlets, more than enough for a healthy boy. I'm not looking for anything else at the moment; I mean, certainly I wouldn't be *that* interested in doing solo records - it's more fun in a band anyway. You get all the best jokes. If you're on your own... I just wouldn't like to ride around the world, when it was time to play, with a bunch of hired guns.
https://www.odabasi.net/dsint3.htm (https://www.odabasi.net/dsint3.htm)
"I just wouldn't like to ride around the world, when it was time to play, with a bunch of hired guns."
LOL
Right?! ;D With 5 out of 9 members of the touring band being hired guns :lol
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And then touring all his solo career just with hired guns!
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I also never understood the 'produced by Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits'.
Very easy to understand, all about Mark's ego.
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Here's a nice interview I never seen before. It sheds a lot of light on Mark's mindset at the time. This part is interesting:
RS: Is Dire Straits nowadays, let's be realistic about this, is it really a vehicle for Mark Knopfler, or is it still a coherent band?
MK: Oh yeah, I mean, I wouldn't write... if I'd written all those tunes and wanted to record 'em another way I would have done it, I mean no sweat at all, I would have just done it. But I find, I think, with all the other work that I do, hanging around with the Hillbilly thing, with Brendan, people like that, I get plenty of outlets, more than enough for a healthy boy. I'm not looking for anything else at the moment; I mean, certainly I wouldn't be *that* interested in doing solo records - it's more fun in a band anyway. You get all the best jokes. If you're on your own... I just wouldn't like to ride around the world, when it was time to play, with a bunch of hired guns.
https://www.odabasi.net/dsint3.htm (https://www.odabasi.net/dsint3.htm)
"I just wouldn't like to ride around the world, when it was time to play, with a bunch of hired guns."
LOL
Right?! ;D With 5 out of 9 members of the touring band being hired guns :lol
I would say 7 out of 9 members; under the hood DS at that time to me seems to be Mark & John. Although Alan and Guy are 'part of' DS, I still think they were hired instead of being part of the actually 'firm' (I hate that term when it comes to arts). Probably paid a bit more than the newly hired guys, but still...
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I shall not forget that John Illsley did (technically) not match Mark's expectations as a bass player.
By far his best bass player. Just compare something like the album version of OUATITW for that bass line or later versions of Sultans for how to spoil it. Probably alone in this opinion because GW is meant to be brilliant just because he has a large instrument.
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I shall not forget that John Illsley did (technically) not match Mark's expectations as a bass player.
By far his best bass player. Just compare something like the album version of OUATITW for that bass line or later versions of Sultans for how to spoil it. Probably alone in this opinion because GW is meant to be brilliant just because he has a large instrument.
I agree! I loved JI's bass lines, they were simple but suited the songs very well. Glenn Worf is a fantastic player, but doesn't suit Mark's music at all. I especially dislike his tendency to play walking bass lines everywhere.
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I shall not forget that John Illsley did (technically) not match Mark's expectations as a bass player.
By far his best bass player. Just compare something like the album version of OUATITW for that bass line or later versions of Sultans for how to spoil it. Probably alone in this opinion because GW is meant to be brilliant just because he has a large instrument.
I agree! I loved JI's bass lines, they were simple but suited the songs very well. Glenn Worf is a fantastic player, but doesn't suit Mark's music at all. I especially dislike his tendency to play walking bass lines everywhere.
Mark plays way fewer notes than in the early DS days, so there's more room for others to fill.
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Reminds me of the BBC Arena documentary, already in, 1980:
-To which extent DS is just a vehicle for you, MK?
-To no extent. It's all about the group. Collectively we do, collectively we play... This is what we do.
Sure... 🤣
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I think long ago I've read somewhere (possibly the Colin Irwin book) that besides the contractual obligation for another album MK felt like he owed it to the other DS members (and I think in particular John whose father financed their break-through demo) to give them one big final opportunity to capitalize on Dire Straits with a last studio album, big tour and live album. After that he could abandon DS with a clear consious and just only do what he wanted, how he wanted without feeling any moral duties towards the DS team. I suppose in that respect the formalazation of Dire Straits being MK, JI, AC & GF (and EB's position in Dire Straits Overseas Ltd) should also be seen seen.
Of course I don't if this is true, however to me seems plausible and even quite likely for it to at least have played a role in MK's considerations (amongst other things) .
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I think long ago I've read somewhere (possibly the Colin Irwin book) that besides the contractual obligation for another album MK felt like he owed it to the other DS members (and I think in particular John whose father financed their break-through demo) to give them one big final opportunity to capitalize on Dire Straits with a last studio album, big tour and live album. After that he could abandon DS with a clear consious and just only do what he wanted, how he wanted without feeling any moral duties towards the DS team. I suppose in that respect the formalazation of Dire Straits being MK, JI, AC & GF (and EB's position in Dire Straits Overseas Ltd) should also be seen seen.
This is interesting and I suppose a plausible explanation. I have read some interviews and articles now where Mark says he was keen to get out there again [do the OES tour], although he knew very well how much and hard work it meant. But I honestly don't really believe him. I think it's just him being professional and trying not to sound totally miserable when touring in support of the new album. Just like no-one believed him when he was asked the "vehicle" question that herlock mentioned.
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At the tiem i read 2/ articles that said there was Ed Bicknell pressure and they wanted to earn more money . Mark wasnt very happy to do it but agreed for Ed and John. I guess that´s why the album is darker than others, and because Mark`s personal live wasn´t very well. i´m very glad they did it and give us the tour.
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I am not sure where John said it, probably in a YT video in a small club with an interviewer who was also a musician talking about Johns book with a small audience.
John said something like he was having dinner at some restaturant with Mark sometime after the BIA tour. Mark told him that he had some songs ready for a new DS album, and John replied, that he thought it was over, and Mark asked him if he was interested in doing it and he said yes.
If John could have the idea that it was definately over, I do not think it was contractual. If contractual John would have known about it right ?.
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MK:
There really was a time when I thought Dire Straits machine would never run again. But now I've changed my mind. I missed her. I realized that it is an inseparable part of my life.
JI:
I remember December 1989. We were eating dinner and suddenly Mark asked me: "Do you want to do it again? What ? - I said. "Gather the team again". "Do you have any songs? "They will find. We should record them very soon" I smiled. "Like the first album in a month? "Just play and record? Yes - replied Mark. "Of course, let's do it" - I replied.
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?
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Excerpt from M. Oldfield's book - in addition to the book. This is just my poor translation.
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Excerpt from M. Oldfield's book - in addition to the book. This is just my poor translation.
The MK line from the M. Oldfield book, and the JI line from John's book, you mean?
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Excerpt from M. Oldfield's book - in addition to the book. This is just my poor translation.
The MK line from the M. Oldfield book, and the JI line from John's book, you mean?
No. Both are from Oldfield's book.
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I thought the Oldfield book only covered the band up to 1984?
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I thought the Oldfield book only covered the band up to 1984?
Yes, but the Polish edition has a modest addition to 1993.
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I thought the Oldfield book only covered the band up to 1984?
Yes, but the Polish edition has a modest addition to 1993.
All these years and weren't aware.
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I thought the Oldfield book only covered the band up to 1984?
Yes, but the Polish edition has a modest addition to 1993.
All these years and weren't aware.
But author is not Michael Oldfield, but a Polish author ;)
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A great article from after 2018 (can't find the date, but the RRHF is mentioned) which reviews OES, some of Mark's possible motives for reforming the band, and also a general analysis of Mark: https://www.pastpri.me/home/dire-straits-on-every-street
:thumbsup
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A great article from after 2018 (can't find the date, but the RRHF is mentioned) which reviews OES, some of Mark's possible motives for reforming the band, and also a general analysis of Mark: https://www.pastpri.me/home/dire-straits-on-every-street
:thumbsup
Yeah, great article. It always amazes me how Mark can combine in him these two opposite personalities: being a secretive, VIP and non-approachable superstar and guitar hero with a manager and bodyguard, and at the same time this humble everyday guy who reads newspapers in a cafe in a morning and visits the tube from time to time, receiving Bike Balls as gift from his daughter. Tommy Emmanuel described visiting his studio like visiting a Batman's cave or something.
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"In many ways, Dire Straits was always a bit puzzling. The guitars were slippery. The lyrics were muttered. They were not Arena Rock. They were not Folk Rock. And they were not New Wave"
That's true too
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Dire Straits had an identity.
OES is an interesting album as you can hear the band being back to country rock.
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I thought the Oldfield book only covered the band up to 1984?
Yes, but the Polish edition has a modest addition to 1993.
All these years and weren't aware.
But author is not Michael Oldfield, but a Polish author ;)
It would have been helpful if you had mentioned this reference in your original post ::)
Does the Polish author have a reference for Mark's and John's statements?
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I thought the Oldfield book only covered the band up to 1984?
Yes, but the Polish edition has a modest addition to 1993.
All these years and weren't aware.
But author is not Michael Oldfield, but a Polish author ;)
It would have been helpful if you had mentioned this reference in your original post ::)
Does the Polish author have a reference for Mark's and John's statements?
I don't understand. What does it mean in the original post?
"Does the Polish author have a reference for Mark's and John's statements?
No, it"s just two quotes from the chapter "On Every Street"
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I thought the Oldfield book only covered the band up to 1984?
Yes, but the Polish edition has a modest addition to 1993.
All these years and weren't aware.
But author is not Michael Oldfield, but a Polish author ;)
It would have been helpful if you had mentioned this reference in your original post ::)
Does the Polish author have a reference for Mark's and John's statements?
I don't understand. What does it mean in the original post?
"Does the Polish author have a reference for Mark's and John's statements?
No, it"s just two quotes from the chapter "On Every Street"
By the original post I mean the post where you posted the quotes of Mark and John. Their conversation. I would have been helpful if you had written in that post where that text came from. Now we have had a number of posts trying to clarify it.
And when I asked you "Does the Polish author have a reference for Mark's and John's statements?", I meant where did the Polish author get that information from? Is there a footnote or reference in the book which says from where the author has the information?
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I thought the Oldfield book only covered the band up to 1984?
Yes, but the Polish edition has a modest addition to 1993.
All these years and weren't aware.
But author is not Michael Oldfield, but a Polish author ;)
It would have been helpful if you had mentioned this reference in your original post ::)
Does the Polish author have a reference for Mark's and John's statements?
I don't understand. What does it mean in the original post?
"Does the Polish author have a reference for Mark's and John's statements?
No, it"s just two quotes from the chapter "On Every Street"
By the original post I mean the post where you posted the quotes of Mark and John. Their conversation. I would have been helpful if you had written in that post where that text came from. Now we have had a number of posts trying to clarify it.
And when I asked you "Does the Polish author have a reference for Mark's and John's statements?", I meant where did the Polish author get that information from? Is there a footnote or reference in the book which says from where the author has the information?
Now I understand :) No, these are just two quotes. The author does not specify where they come from.
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"In many ways, Dire Straits was always a bit puzzling. The guitars were slippery. The lyrics were muttered. They were not Arena Rock. They were not Folk Rock. And they were not New Wave"
That's true too
Yeah, and this made them something very special. An outstanding band!
Thanks for sharing this great article!
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Now I understand :) No, these are just two quotes. The author does not specify where they come from.
But quotes from what? The the Polish author interview Mark and John? Or is it how the Polish author imagined the conversation happened? If it is not rooted in reality, I don't the see the value of it.
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I wrote that the author does not give the source (maybe he should)
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I wrote that the author does not give the source (maybe he should)
Who is the author of the text that has been added to the original text, though? Doesn't seem like a very reliable source, to be quite honest.
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I wrote that the author does not give the source (maybe he should)
Who is the author of the text that has been added to the original text, though? Doesn't seem like a very reliable source, to be quite honest.
The author of the supplement (1984-1993) is Jan Skaradziński - music journalist.
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I don't know about the album, but the giant tour I feel sure was largely Ed's doing. He was all about maximizing the $$$.
I heard (from someone who knew someone at Damage Management) years ago, just after Mark and Ed split up, that when the Sultans of Swing "very best of" compilation came out Ed really pushed Mark to get the band back together and do another big world tour, which Mark of course had no interest in.
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I think long ago I've read somewhere (possibly the Colin Irwin book) that besides the contractual obligation for another album MK felt like he owed it to the other DS members (and I think in particular John whose father financed their break-through demo) to give them one big final opportunity to capitalize on Dire Straits with a last studio album, big tour and live album. After that he could abandon DS with a clear consious and just only do what he wanted, how he wanted without feeling any moral duties towards the DS team. I suppose in that respect the formalazation of Dire Straits being MK, JI, AC & GF (and EB's position in Dire Straits Overseas Ltd) should also be seen seen.
Of course I don't if this is true, however to me seems plausible and even quite likely for it to at least have played a role in MK's considerations (amongst other things) .
I agree with this take on events. OES clearly states that 'Dire Straits are Mark, John Guy and Alan' and it does feel as though this was MKs way of capping off the Dire Straits vehicle and giving long serving members their dues. I'm sure the tour was very lucrative too, though world recession fell at this time and a number of events had to be cancelled. Note though he still retains full writing credits.
I think as ever though there were a number of reasons for OES, not just down to money and obligations although it was a big part. I'm sure he did want to get the team back together again as it was a safe place, as we read that this time of his life was difficult. Whatever the reasons the tour got tired and the sound was in my opinion clinical, maybe reflecting the circumstances around its incarnation.
I'd love to hear another Dire Straits record or even little EP. Seems a shame Mark and John just can't do a little something being next door to each other. Simple things often the most difficult.
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"I'd love to hear another Dire Straits record or even little EP. Seems a shame Mark and John just can't do a little something being next door to each other. Simple things often the most difficult.
There was a time that I used to wonder why John Illsley wasn't in Mark Knopfler's band.
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Wasn't Mark too busy all these years to find some time off and gig with John?
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Wasn't Mark too busy all these years to find some time off and gig with John?
It's kinda sad really; saw John played the other day at a local festival to them and also he sometimes does music at his pub I think. You'd think MK might pitch up one day...who knows, maybe he does but I think we would have heard about it. If I were John I'd be miffed. They are a good combination: John by himself really rocks.
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I think Mark values his friendship with John highly and really doesn't want to mix business with pleasure, as it were. After the many intense years of being together in Dire Straits, I can imagine it must be nice for Mark to feel that he doesn't have to make any decisions as leader in his contact with John. They can just be pals and neighbors, on equal terms.
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According to various performers from the live band during the tour around 1991-92 Mark wasn't exactly ecstatic to be touring. Very down and very moody, probably due to personal issues that had arisen during that period, that said everyone has issues, so from all the articles i've read it's quite disheartening to read that actually Mark wasn't the easiest to get along with in that period. Also i've noticed some negative reviews of drummer Chris Whitton during that tour. He was quality to be fair, and bearing in mind i'm a Pick Withers fan, and I also love Terry Williams' playing on Alchemy and Live Aid. BUT as usual fans look to blame the newcomers. in reality Whitton was exceptional, ironically Knopfler wanted this big Drum sound which Chris struggled (to hear) with and then fast forward to Mark's solo career and he is a world away from big drum sounds. Life is funny,
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I don't know about the album, but the giant tour I feel sure was largely Ed's doing. He was all about maximizing the $$$.
I heard (from someone who knew someone at Damage Management) years ago, just after Mark and Ed split up, that when the Sultans of Swing "very best of" compilation came out Ed really pushed Mark to get the band back together and do another big world tour, which Mark of course had no interest in.
Know the story. By the time STP was out MK was really pushed to do another DS tour....
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I don't know about the album, but the giant tour I feel sure was largely Ed's doing. He was all about maximizing the $$$.
I heard (from someone who knew someone at Damage Management) years ago, just after Mark and Ed split up, that when the Sultans of Swing "very best of" compilation came out Ed really pushed Mark to get the band back together and do another big world tour, which Mark of course had no interest in.
Know the story. By the time STP was out MK was really pushed to do another DS tour....
It's a very brave decision to refuse, as this might easily be one of the highest-grossing tours in the world, so Mark quite literally chose love over gold.
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They lost a lot of money in the US and Aussie in 1991-1992.
DS was big in Europe.