A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: 12345 on October 07, 2023, 09:08:58 AM
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Those are probably some of my favourite DS live songs but I always wondered why MK quit playing those live after he quit DS?
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Those are probably some of my favourite DS live songs but I always wondered why MK quit playing those live after he quit DS?
Both of these songs suited the scale of the band at the time, I don't think it would sound (and look!) as good in a stripped-down, simpler solo MK outfit.
If only those were the only DS songs he stopped playing :lol So I think for it to work you need flashy lighting, flashy solos, big arenas, etc.
...and bring 1 extra acoustic guitar to play just 1 song.
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I always thought some songs were 100 procent out when he went solo. He had to play some DS songs for the fans so in the beginning he played CE WOL and so on. He just played the ones he really liked and he thought would fit in his set now he went solo.
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Only god knows.
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I remember seeing John Ilsley play P.I. at the Brook in Southampton a few years back probably in front of a crowd of 3 or 400 people. Scale didn't matter, it was still great.
There's a simple answer to your question though.
Because he didn't want to. ;D....
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Only god knows.
Do we need to ask Eric?
Lol
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This and Tunnel of Love. My opinion is simple: because his new band didn't have the rock leanings of DS members. Can you imagine Ricardo providing some of the solos to Two Young Lovers that Jack did? Even Mark picked up some new amps to make himself sound softer.
Nashville and RAH don't mix.
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I always thought some songs were 100 procent out when he went solo. He had to play some DS songs for the fans so in the beginning he played CE WOL and so on. He just played the ones he really liked and he thought would fit in his set now he went solo.
CE in the solo tours has always sound super weak IMO - just like "The Bug" - , not sure why he kept playing it in 96 and 01.They even temporary added a super weird modulation in the solo section (96 tour I think) !
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I liked it in 96, the transition from Je Suis Desole was cool!
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Mark could have played anything from the DS catalog if he had wanted to.
Everything that wasn't played is Mark's only decision.
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Mark could have played anything from the DS catalog if he had wanted to.
Everything that wasn't played is Mark's only decision.
Up until 2005, yes. Can you imagine Tunnel of Love being played in 2019?
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He did play Once upon a time in the west, i think he still can do the TOL solo, but i guess we will never know.
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I always thought some songs were 100 procent out when he went solo. He had to play some DS songs for the fans so in the beginning he played CE WOL and so on. He just played the ones he really liked and he thought would fit in his set now he went solo.
CE in the solo tours has always sound super weak IMO - just like "The Bug" - , not sure why he kept playing it in 96 and 01.They even temporary added a super weird modulation in the solo section (96 tour I think) !
Totally agree - these two songs were awful post DS. He seemed glued to his Les Paul at this point and sometimes I feel for no particular reason. These songs were better served on the OES tour and I think the absence of Paul Franklin was notable too.
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He did play Once upon a time in the west, i think he still can do the TOL solo, but i guess we will never know.
IMO Once Upon A Time In The West sounded absolutely horrible when he played it on the 2019 tour. Not sure why he added the brass instruments and switched to a Les Paul. It didn't fit at all and sounded so watered down and sounded nothing like how it was played live before.
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Mark could have played anything from the DS catalog if he had wanted to.
Everything that wasn't played is Mark's only decision.
Up until 2005, yes. Can you imagine Tunnel of Love being played in 2019?
I mean he was still able to play Telegraph Road in 2019 which is harder than TOL, at least imo
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He did play Once upon a time in the west, i think he still can do the TOL solo, but i guess we will never know.
IMO Once Upon A Time In The West sounded absolutely horrible when he played it on the 2019 tour. Not sure why he added the brass instruments and switched to a Les Paul. It didn't fit at all and sounded so watered down and nothing like the original or how it was played in the 80s.
And why should it resemble the original? For me, Once Upon a Time In The West is one of the greatest moments of the last tour.
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Private Investigations would had sound so great with pipes and fiddle, plus a trombone doing the bass and bass drum sound of the end, plus some bouzouki doing the guitar parts
I wonder why MK never thought about this.
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Private Investigations would had sound so great with pipes and fiddle, plus a trombone doing the bass and bass drum sound of the end, plus some bouzouki doing the guitar parts
I wonder why MK never thought about this.
Oh yes! And his melodeclamation is wonderful.
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I think CE was better in 96.
It is all about personnal taste.
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Mark could have played anything from the DS catalog if he had wanted to.
Everything that wasn't played is Mark's only decision.
Up until 2005, yes. Can you imagine Tunnel of Love being played in 2019?
I mean he was still able to play Telegraph Road in 2019 which is harder than TOL, at least imo
But those versions were terrible, he was just struggling so much to play it. And MK knew it and dropped it after the first 5 concerts.
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2019 is not representative of Mark ability during his solo years.
From 1996 to the year you want he could have played anything form his catalogue.
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Mark could have played anything from the DS catalog if he had wanted to.
Everything that wasn't played is Mark's only decision.
Up until 2005, yes. Can you imagine Tunnel of Love being played in 2019?
I mean he was still able to play Telegraph Road in 2019 which is harder than TOL, at least imo
Really? From a non guitarist, but one who's heard hundreds of versions (good and bad) there's no hiding place in the final solo in TOL; if you mess up it really stands out. Mess up in TR and you can cover yourself quite easily so only someone who's listened to as many versions as I have will know he didn't manage that the way he wanted! In TR final solo there's not any real structure to it, just a series of arpeggios linked together. There's only one bit he does in most versions which is akin to the twiddly bits in Sultans and he doesn't even have to bother with it. Then during the lyrics it's even harder to play TOL and sing at the same time. TOL has the true majestic solo for me. I'm certain this is why he stopped playing Silvertown and why OES wasn't a patch on DS versions. The brain just slows down as we get older folks!
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Mark could have played anything from the DS catalog if he had wanted to.
Everything that wasn't played is Mark's only decision.
Up until 2005, yes. Can you imagine Tunnel of Love being played in 2019?
I mean he was still able to play Telegraph Road in 2019 which is harder than TOL, at least imo
Really? From a non guitarist, but one who's heard hundreds of versions (good and bad) there's no hiding place in the final solo in TOL; if you mess up it really stands out. Mess up in TR and you can cover yourself quite easily so only someone who's listened to as many versions as I have will know he didn't manage that the way he wanted! In TR final solo there's not any real structure to it, just a series of arpeggios linked together. There's only one bit he does in most versions which is akin to the twiddly bits in Sultans and he doesn't even have to bother with it. Then during the lyrics it's even harder to play TOL and sing at the same time. TOL has the true majestic solo for me. I'm certain this is why he stopped playing Silvertown and why OES wasn't a patch on DS versions. The brain just slows down as we get older folks!
I agree, but I also think that if Mark really wanted to play anything, he would be able to with more or less effort. The thing about Mark is that after the 2005 tour, he completely disregarded the guitar and focused solely on songwriting and composing. He himself has said this. He became incredibly lazy around his guitar and his playing has suffered over the years (also due to natural aging, of course).
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Mark could have played anything from the DS catalog if he had wanted to.
Everything that wasn't played is Mark's only decision.
Up until 2005, yes. Can you imagine Tunnel of Love being played in 2019?
I mean he was still able to play Telegraph Road in 2019 which is harder than TOL, at least imo
Really? From a non guitarist, but one who's heard hundreds of versions (good and bad) there's no hiding place in the final solo in TOL; if you mess up it really stands out. Mess up in TR and you can cover yourself quite easily so only someone who's listened to as many versions as I have will know he didn't manage that the way he wanted! In TR final solo there's not any real structure to it, just a series of arpeggios linked together. There's only one bit he does in most versions which is akin to the twiddly bits in Sultans and he doesn't even have to bother with it. Then during the lyrics it's even harder to play TOL and sing at the same time. TOL has the true majestic solo for me. I'm certain this is why he stopped playing Silvertown and why OES wasn't a patch on DS versions. The brain just slows down as we get older folks!
Well I personally have no problem playing to TOL live backing track but struggle more played TR live backing track
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In the case of Solid Rock I suspect that as an uptempo rock and roll song originating from the DS album geared most towards straight up rock music it simply didn't fit well with Mark's post-DS musical trajectory. It also wasn't a hit like Sultans, Money For Nothing or Walk Of Life and hasn't been included on any of the compilations so I don't think the general audience (as opposed to committed fans) would necessarily have expected to hear it.
I find Private Investigations is more difficult to explain, it doesn't fit the conventional rock song template and is quiet for the majority of its length so I think it could have fitted quite well in Mark's solo shows. If anything I'd say that Telegraph Road being retained in the setlist rather than this song goes against the grain of his choices for DS songs in his solo career, particularly when you consider that Romeo and Juliet has remained a fixture with Tunnel of Love being dropped. Perhaps he wanted to keep Telegraph Road in the setlist as his main technical guitar showcase alongside Sultans and felt he couldn't justify including more than one song from Love Over Gold with many newer songs to choose from?
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Mark could have played anything from the DS catalog if he had wanted to.
Everything that wasn't played is Mark's only decision.
Up until 2005, yes. Can you imagine Tunnel of Love being played in 2019?
I mean he was still able to play Telegraph Road in 2019 which is harder than TOL, at least imo
Really? From a non guitarist, but one who's heard hundreds of versions (good and bad) there's no hiding place in the final solo in TOL; if you mess up it really stands out. Mess up in TR and you can cover yourself quite easily so only someone who's listened to as many versions as I have will know he didn't manage that the way he wanted! In TR final solo there's not any real structure to it, just a series of arpeggios linked together. There's only one bit he does in most versions which is akin to the twiddly bits in Sultans and he doesn't even have to bother with it. Then during the lyrics it's even harder to play TOL and sing at the same time. TOL has the true majestic solo for me. I'm certain this is why he stopped playing Silvertown and why OES wasn't a patch on DS versions. The brain just slows down as we get older folks!
Can't really agree. Typically TR requires faster - longer lines. TOL for me is a bit like STP but in roids, with a very long build up. I'd say MK follows a obvious structure after the crescendo: a few pentatonic licks in the 10 fret, some D major pentatonic stuff then moves back around fret 3 with more trademark pentatonic and some beautiful open string / double stop licks - this was typical in 96' - . Back to classic licks in position 10 and finally to the high bends and the "trademark" tweedy lick. Also in TR there're a few moments which a failure is very notable - and he failed pretty much every night - say the micro break before the full blown solo. He struggled also with the trademark tweedy bit.
I think I've mentioned before but the 2019 TR Pensa sound was literally shit, like a going through of a 150$ cheap amp; I think that was a huge factor in dropping it.
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Mark could have played anything from the DS catalog if he had wanted to.
Everything that wasn't played is Mark's only decision.
Up until 2005, yes. Can you imagine Tunnel of Love being played in 2019?
I mean he was still able to play Telegraph Road in 2019 which is harder than TOL, at least imo
Really? From a non guitarist, but one who's heard hundreds of versions (good and bad) there's no hiding place in the final solo in TOL; if you mess up it really stands out. Mess up in TR and you can cover yourself quite easily so only someone who's listened to as many versions as I have will know he didn't manage that the way he wanted! In TR final solo there's not any real structure to it, just a series of arpeggios linked together. There's only one bit he does in most versions which is akin to the twiddly bits in Sultans and he doesn't even have to bother with it. Then during the lyrics it's even harder to play TOL and sing at the same time. TOL has the true majestic solo for me. I'm certain this is why he stopped playing Silvertown and why OES wasn't a patch on DS versions. The brain just slows down as we get older folks!
Well I personally have no problem playing to TOL live backing track but struggle more played TR live backing track
Live and studio versions are entirely different though.
TOL: live has much longer and beautiful build-up to the famous part. Can't just stop if he suddenly feels tired - this solo has a beginning a middle and an end. It's a masterpiece solo. During the lyrics it looks tricky at parts, especially over: "come on and take a low ride with me, girl..."
TR: basically random arpeggios, different ones on different nights, until he feels tired and signals to end the song with the usual lick. No pressure. This is why TR has been on the set all these years.
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Personally, I think TOL is far more difficult to pull off than TR,
TR leans heavily on other instruments , piano especially, MK can potentially get away with barely playing until the end, especially with the arrangement they did in the solo tours, and as others mentioned the end solo is fairly open. He can play largely what he likes aside from a couple of key licks here and there , you can also slow down TR overall without as much consequence.
TOL has far more noticeable in between licks on the guitar throughout , faster tempo , and aside from the end solo, there is also the middle solo which really has to be on point and rhythmic to work well. I don't think 2010 mark could have pulled that off let alone 2019! I think as well this tune just didn't fit the MK solo vibe, it's stadium rock (at it's finest!)
People are saying that the MK solo band couldn't have pulled off DS as well, and that could well be true, but ... they were also chosen for the band for that very reason. MK picked them to create the sound he wanted which was to get away from DS.
I think he could've played more DS tunes throughout his solo live career , that version of WOL in 96 is a classic example. So cool! But I understand with each album there is more music and that makes the setlist harder to write.
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In the case of Solid Rock I suspect that as an uptempo rock and roll song originating from the DS album geared most towards straight up rock music it simply didn't fit well with Mark's post-DS musical trajectory. It also wasn't a hit like Sultans, Money For Nothing or Walk Of Life and hasn't been included on any of the compilations so I don't think the general audience (as opposed to committed fans) would necessarily have expected to hear it.
I find Private Investigations is more difficult to explain, it doesn't fit the conventional rock song template and is quiet for the majority of its length so I think it could have fitted quite well in Mark's solo shows. If anything I'd say that Telegraph Road being retained in the setlist rather than this song goes against the grain of his choices for DS songs in his solo career, particularly when you consider that Romeo and Juliet has remained a fixture with Tunnel of Love being dropped. Perhaps he wanted to keep Telegraph Road in the setlist as his main technical guitar showcase alongside Sultans and felt he couldn't justify including more than one song from Love Over Gold with many newer songs to choose from?
Good post!
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In the case of Solid Rock I suspect that as an uptempo rock and roll song originating from the DS album geared most towards straight up rock music it simply didn't fit well with Mark's post-DS musical trajectory. It also wasn't a hit like Sultans, Money For Nothing or Walk Of Life and hasn't been included on any of the compilations so I don't think the general audience (as opposed to committed fans) would necessarily have expected to hear it.
I find Private Investigations is more difficult to explain, it doesn't fit the conventional rock song template and is quiet for the majority of its length so I think it could have fitted quite well in Mark's solo shows. If anything I'd say that Telegraph Road being retained in the setlist rather than this song goes against the grain of his choices for DS songs in his solo career, particularly when you consider that Romeo and Juliet has remained a fixture with Tunnel of Love being dropped. Perhaps he wanted to keep Telegraph Road in the setlist as his main technical guitar showcase alongside Sultans and felt he couldn't justify including more than one song from Love Over Gold with many newer songs to choose from?
Yes! Makes sense.