A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Wario on January 12, 2024, 01:17:22 AM
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I start this topic to find out what important differences you would highlight between Mark's shows in Europe and North America. It generally tours Europe and then goes to America when the machinery is more oiled. Now, I'd be interested to know which shows you prefer (beyond the quality of the recordings). In my opinion the European shows are very good (fresher) and the American ones tend to have a fitter MK, so to speak. I know that MK has had better and worse nights for years, but I would be interested in exchanging opinions.
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I start this topic to find out what important differences you would highlight between Mark's shows in Europe and North America. It generally tours Europe and then goes to America when the machinery is more oiled. Now, I'd be interested to know which shows you prefer (beyond the quality of the recordings). In my opinion the European shows are very good (fresher) and the American ones tend to have a fitter MK, so to speak. I know that MK has had better and worse nights for years, but I would be interested in exchanging opinions.
Not always, some tours went to NA first and then Europe.
Don't forget that it is NA, not US, they also visit Canada!
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The US shows tend to be shorter don't they?
I guess this is partly due to the band having worked out what songs "work" and what doesn't but I think there may also be union restrictions involved.
ChrisW said that it takes a few weeks for a live band to really get cooking and this makes sense, but the opening show in Dublin in 2015 was really enjoyable when I went there as it seemed they were trying to play nearly every song they had rehearsed.
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ChrisW said that it takes a few weeks for a live band to really get cooking and this makes sense
Hmm, I didn't exactly say that. I said you couldn't play every night for a few weeks and not gel further and not discover new bits that took a sing to another level.
No band at this level exists rehearsals uncooked, as in not cooking. You are at the top of your game and you can't imagine how things can be even better, but after a few months you realise that the songs have developed even more.
I don't need to get involved in this debate because I've never toured one of Mark's solo shows. however, there are a lot of things at play here.
As a performing musician you feed off the crowd. It is difficult to play in Japan for example as the audiences are more subdued, conservative.
British audiences tend to be a little cool, critical. Like prove to me you are a great band.
European and American audiences tend to be more looking for a good time, therefore screaming their approval from the first song inwards.
All of this impacts the performance.
American music is very important to Mark, so it may be he feels more tension, wanting to impress his American fans. On the other hand he may feel more at home and therefore relaxed. I don't know which it is.
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I think it's mostly about early vs late on the tour. From what I recall, there's always been longer shows with some rarities in the beginning of the tour (regardless of where it starts), and then a setlist that is more or less fixed after some point in time.
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Mark usually enters autopilot mode when he reaches the US. Setlist gets cut from 16/17 or 18 songs to about 14/15.
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ChrisW said that it takes a few weeks for a live band to really get cooking and this makes sense
Hmm, I didn't exactly say that. I said you couldn't play every night for a few weeks and not gel further and not discover new bits that took a sing to another level.
No band at this level exists rehearsals uncooked, as in not cooking. You are at the top of your game and you can't imagine how things can be even better, but after a few months you realise that the songs have developed even more.
I don't need to get involved in this debate because I've never toured one of Mark's solo shows. however, there are a lot of things at play here.
As a performing musician you feed off the crowd. It is difficult to play in Japan for example as the audiences are more subdued, conservative.
British audiences tend to be a little cool, critical. Like prove to me you are a great band.
European and American audiences tend to be more looking for a good time, therefore screaming their approval from the first song inwards.
All of this impacts the performance.
American music is very important to Mark, so it may be he feels more tension, wanting to impress his American fans. On the other hand he may feel more at home and therefore relaxed. I don't know which it is.
Apologies Chris, I was of course paraphrasing you and I didn't mean to imply that you had suggested that a band wasn't firing on all cylinders from the off. I guess I should have emphasised the REALLY part of my post. :)
Interesting points on the differences between UK and other audiences.
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I always liked to travel to the UK to attend live shows because Spanish people are noisy and very unrespectful at gigs, and in the UK people are more quiet, listening the music in silence, very respectful, only thing I never liked was the going in and out to buy beer...
The RAH shows started to be ruined pretty soon in that respect as many Spanish and Italian fans started to attend that shows, so they can of bring the worst of that type of audiences to that shows.
It's funny as British people when attended MK shows at Spain or Italy loved our ambience and crazyness... LOL
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Yes, well for more intimate contemplative music like Mark's solo work it probably is annoying, but for a stadium rock show it is GREAT.
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Mark usually enters autopilot mode when he reaches the US. Setlist gets cut from 16/17 or 18 songs to about 14/15.
I doubt this is by choice. It is probably about the promoters or the venues. Often places have a time limit (curfew). Sometimes promoters insist on a support band, some times promoters insist on an interval.
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The US shows tend to be shorter don't they?
I guess this is partly due to the band having worked out what songs "work" and what doesn't but I think there may also be union restrictions involved.
ChrisW said that it takes a few weeks for a live band to really get cooking and this makes sense, but the opening show in Dublin in 2015 was really enjoyable when I went there as it seemed they were trying to play nearly every song they had rehearsed.
same goes for the 2008 Amsterdam and 2006 brussels show. happy to have been there.
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No band at this level exists rehearsals uncooked, as in not cooking.
Not sure if that goes for Mark. I always have the impression that he needs a few or even several shows to really get going. I'm talking about the solo shows now. It seems to me that he has a "sweet spot"; early in the tour, he even seems a little rusty, late in the tour he seems almost bored. With exceptions of course.
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He's getting old, maybe he starts to get tired towards the end of a tour.
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I tend to think of North America as the US (I realized that mistake and that's why I mentioned North America below).
In any case, I think it depends a lot on Mark's mood, when he is having fun it is noticeable and I prefer a fun show to a technically perfect one.
The "autopilot" thing is also debatable since on the last tour there were great shows in America (Beacon Theatre 2, Red Rocks, Woodinville 1 and 2, Santa Barbara, among others) and also regular ones (MSG especially for me, and it's strange to me because very few people say it). Was it a massive show? Yes. Was it musically up to par with the rest of the tour? Not for me. But it's all a matter of taste.
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No band at this level exists rehearsals uncooked, as in not cooking.
Not sure if that goes for Mark. I always have the impression that he needs a few or even several shows to really get going. I'm talking about the solo shows now. It seems to me that he has a "sweet spot"; early in the tour, he even seems a little rusty, late in the tour he seems almost bored. With exceptions of course.
I have to agree with this. As I have read in publications from the last tour, the best European period was from Bordeaux to Birmingham (May 2019) with some outstanding moments before and after (Verona especially). I understand that the North American shows were more stable in the way they played, with MK in better shape but already tired (not to say a little bored) towards the end.
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Frankly, it has seemed for many years that Mark has used the opening shows to play the band in, or rather himself. The rehearsals became much shorter over time, and while this obviously had to do with a relatively stable band and a setlist seemingly developing over several tours, Mark was not quite there playing-wise.
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Frankly, it has seemed for many years that Mark has used the opening shows to play the band in, or rather himself. The rehearsals became much shorter over time, and while this obviously had to do with a relatively stable band and a setlist seemingly developing over several tours, Mark was not quite there playing-wise.
Agree with this. He'd become increasingly lazy with rehearsal times and was pretty much match fit by the NA leg.
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Frankly, it has seemed for many years that Mark has used the opening shows to play the band in, or rather himself. The rehearsals became much shorter over time, and while this obviously had to do with a relatively stable band and a setlist seemingly developing over several tours, Mark was not quite there playing-wise.
Agree with this. He'd become increasingly lazy with rehearsal times and was pretty much match fit by the NA leg.
But I don't think even NA was optimal since 2015 (it had its highlights, but I think its energy wasn't there sometimes).
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Frankly, it has seemed for many years that Mark has used the opening shows to play the band in, or rather himself. The rehearsals became much shorter over time, and while this obviously had to do with a relatively stable band and a setlist seemingly developing over several tours, Mark was not quite there playing-wise.
Agree with this. He'd become increasingly lazy with rehearsal times and was pretty much match fit by the NA leg.
But I don't think even NA was optimal since 2015 (it had its highlights, but I think its energy wasn't there sometimes).
True; he dropped TR during the NA leg in 2015.
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Frankly, it has seemed for many years that Mark has used the opening shows to play the band in, or rather himself. The rehearsals became much shorter over time, and while this obviously had to do with a relatively stable band and a setlist seemingly developing over several tours, Mark was not quite there playing-wise.
Agree with this. He'd become increasingly lazy with rehearsal times and was pretty much match fit by the NA leg.
But I don't think even NA was optimal since 2015 (it had its highlights, but I think its energy wasn't there sometimes).
True; he dropped TR during the NA leg in 2015.
NA usually suffers in the setlist, in 2008 PFP was abandoned for the next 5 years and in 2015 TR, OSL and KOG were abandoned. I also think that (although some fans may hate me) it was time to let SOS and TR go. I don't know why Mark wanted to revive Telegraph Road in 2019 (although I appreciate his effort), things change.
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TR stayed in the setlist for far too long. It seemed weak and uninspired before it went.
From a broader perspective, there should have been bigger changes between the tours. It often felt like watching the same tour, with modifications.
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TR stayed in the setlist for far too long. It seemed weak and uninspired before it went.
From a broader perspective, there should have been bigger changes between the tours. It often felt like watching the same tour, with modifications.
I remember during the Tracker tour, many members here were jokingly saying it should have been called the "Privatracker" Tour.
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Frankly, it has seemed for many years that Mark has used the opening shows to play the band in, or rather himself. The rehearsals became much shorter over time, and while this obviously had to do with a relatively stable band and a setlist seemingly developing over several tours, Mark was not quite there playing-wise.
Agree with this. He'd become increasingly lazy with rehearsal times and was pretty much match fit by the NA leg.
But I don't think even NA was optimal since 2015 (it had its highlights, but I think its energy wasn't there sometimes).
True; he dropped TR during the NA leg in 2015.
NA usually suffers in the setlist, in 2008 PFP was abandoned for the next 5 years and in 2015 TR, OSL and KOG were abandoned. I also think that (although some fans may hate me) it was time to let SOS and TR go. I don't know why Mark wanted to revive Telegraph Road in 2019 (although I appreciate his effort), things change.
TR was played like 5 or 6 times only right? If I remember properly the end solo was a bit of a blooper fest - besides the UGLY Pensa tone they got out of the Kemper -
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TR stayed in the setlist for far too long. It seemed weak and uninspired before it went.
From a broader perspective, there should have been bigger changes between the tours. It often felt like watching the same tour, with modifications.
I remember during the Tracker tour, many members here were jokingly saying it should have been called the "Privatracker" Tour.
I have the same feeling, he did it too much (about TR). I remember when I started watching MK tours, I found the Tracker tour less interesting than the others (because my first impression was "this is essentially the same as 2013 but 2013 is better"). I think Mark played it safe, knowing what worked for him in the past, with some changes but not the right ones in my opinion. I would have made a more energetic and fresh show by sacrificing the songs I could no longer play correctly and replacing them with the correct songs. I think of obvious inclusions from Beryl and Darling Pretty to Why Worry or Wild West End (which I never understood how he didn't include in his solo shows). By the way, I think he totally got it right with WAM, OUATITW, SB and MFN on the next tour.
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Best solo of SFA in last few decades was played at Nort Americ tour. I dont know where he got inspired that night..?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOiZmHYAt64
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Best solo of SFA in last few decades was played at Nort Americ tour. I dont know where he got inspired that night..?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOiZmHYAt64
This one's better!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DzwFaXOlnY&ab_channel=cohenadmirer1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DzwFaXOlnY&ab_channel=cohenadmirer1)
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Best solo of SFA in last few decades was played at Nort Americ tour. I dont know where he got inspired that night..?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOiZmHYAt64
Outstanding performance, Mark was really on form in 2012. I think he slowed down after his accident in 2003, the 2005 tour is excellent but not the same as 1996 or 2001. Either way, he continued to maintain the level 2008 and 2010. I think his last year at the top was 2013.
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TR stayed in the setlist for far too long. It seemed weak and uninspired before it went.
From a broader perspective, there should have been bigger changes between the tours. It often felt like watching the same tour, with modifications.
Exactly had the same feelings. I was standing in Bremen in 2013 and thought: hmmmm, same as 3 years ago.
I left the bulls in front of the stage and got me a blonde.
That was the reason I bought only 1 ticket for the tracker tour. Somehow the fire of the gigs was gone.
Looking back I would say that Bilbao 2010 was really my last MK concert which I totally enjoyed in full.
OK the Bob Dylan gigs were not that bad either.
Back to topic. I would also say that the Band got really into shape within the US tours but the setlists got always shorter.
Exception: 2001 Sailing tour of course. I really loved that concerts. Sure, he started in 2001 with the US concerts
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I loved the 2015 og 2019 tours. Yes, he was older, but the shows were still great. I just think he makes deliberate choices that some of you don’t like. Not as fast as 30 years earlier. Slower songs. But still great tone, great songs, great musicians, good vibe, loud audiences, great reviews. You don’t have to like it or enjoy his choices or shows, but imo the quality was still high and the shows very enjoyable.
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I loved the 2015 og 2019 tours. Yes, he was older, but the shows were still great. I just think he makes deliberate choices that some of you don’t like. Not as fast as 30 years earlier. Slower songs. But still great tone, great songs, great musicians, good vibe, loud audiences, great reviews. You don’t have to like it or enjoy his choices or shows, but imo the quality was still high and the shows very enjoyable.
I think the quality of the show itself was always good. The thing is that Mark had to adapt to his limitations in his ability to play over time and progressively stopped being a "guitarist and singer" to become a "singer and guitarist." Just my opinion.
PS: I love them too (2015 and 2019 tours).