A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: privinvest on May 13, 2024, 09:41:44 PM
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May 13th is the 39th anniversary of Brothers in Arms (?)
Where do you rank it a) among DS albums, b) among the entire MK oeuvre, c) rock history in general,
d) favorite song, e) least favorite song, f) most underrated song, g) what makes it beautiful, important, unique etc (and/or how to suggest it to a youngster, "you should give it a try becoz...")
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My first CD. I will never forget that day.
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Wow! 39 years! Remember well my father buying me BIA on cassette from John Menzies (Remember those stores?) and in fact I still have it in the collection!
I'll never, ever forget listening to this album for the first time, and being blown away especially the 'Brothers in arms' track! Have the BIA 'picture disc' square vinyl single as well!
For me this album has to be my favourite purely as it started my DS/MK Journey at the age of 10!
'Your Latest trick' is the only track I'm not keen on, just not my cup of tea!
Of course as time went on, I have managed to buy BIA on CD & Vinyl in many editions!
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The worst album Mark has ever made. Brothers in arms and money for nothing are both great everything else is second rate for Mark . The mans too strong would have been great except for the bad last verse. His songwriting became consistantly stronger on his solo records.
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Ridiculous comment, has a smell of trolling. You can't be serious?
LE
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Haha, I knew there'd be a huge discussion over this!
I totally agree with Wizard - not the best DS album ever, that's for sure.
Of course it's a nostalgic item for me too, the first DS album I listened to, the first cd, and my first live concert ever.
But, looking back (is it really 39 years, where did time go?), it really does seem a bit overproduced, although the songwriting is great. (
Still, my favourite track (of all DS tracks) is actually Your Latest Trick. It's the magic of the sax and the guitar, like in Going Home. I'm glad he picked it up on the last few tours again. Nigel Hitchcock was very damn close to Mike Brecker.
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It's very interesting. Brothers In Arms is a masterpiece for many people, but not for fans. I don't understand it. It's still a fascinating and important album. For music, for pop culture, for music videos and compact disc. The story is very long... And this album is still great to listen to and this will never change.
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I did a conference about it last year (in french) :
https://youtu.be/hkt0fTGAoQs
more details about it : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/dire-straits-mark-knopfler/#CONFERENCE_SUR_%E2%80%98BROTHERS_IN_ARMS
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I did a conference about it last year (in french) :
https://youtu.be/hkt0fTGAoQs
more details about it : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/dire-straits-mark-knopfler/#CONFERENCE_SUR_%E2%80%98BROTHERS_IN_ARMS
Thanks, JF!
Can we have subtitles, please? ;D
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I think it's an album that got a lot of us started on the bandwagon. I first got the cassette after hearing MFN coming out the door of my friends older brother and still have it somewhere.
While not my favourite DS album, it probably suffers from too many singles and not enough cohesion, it is still immensely enjoyable and an absolute classic. If it's recognised as a classic in the history of music then I would worry about fans not rating it!
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I did a conference about it last year (in french) :
https://youtu.be/hkt0fTGAoQs
more details about it : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/dire-straits-mark-knopfler/#CONFERENCE_SUR_%E2%80%98BROTHERS_IN_ARMS
Thanks, JF!
Can we have subtitles, please? ;D
ah ah. Don't have the time to translate all that stuff ;D
all that you have are automatic YT subtitles... but in french :lol
I wrote some infos here : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/nouvelle-experience-une-conference-sur-dire-straits/
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Thanks, JF, it was only a joke :-)
The youtube subtitles are very funny sometimes, especially with British English - the AI just doesn't get it ;D
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I was very much into Alchemy then, the album that set me into DS, and BIA was not and still is not my fave album.
I remember being much more impressed by the release of OES.
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It is a masterpiece, pure and simple. All killer no filler!
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It is a masterpiece, pure and simple. All killer no filler!
One world is filler :)
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May 13th is the 39th anniversary of Brothers in Arms (?)
Where do you rank it a) among DS albums, b) among the entire MK oeuvre, c) rock history in general,
d) favorite song, e) least favorite song, f) most underrated song, g) what makes it beautiful, important, unique etc (and/or how to suggest it to a youngster, "you should give it a try becoz...")
a) 3rd, after Alchemy and Making Movies
b) 3rd, after Alchemy and Making Movies
c) It has its place in rock history, and certainly not because I say so
d) brothers in arms
e) one world
f) I don't know if it is underrated, but live Ride Across The River acquired a different 'weight'
g) is the quintessence of a rock album, which can become very pop and reach everyone, but without giving up good songwrting and musical quality. I can understand that for someone who has been following DS/MK for decades can have enough of MFN or WOL, but a kid who listens to well-played music (rock, but not only) and not rappers singing on recorded bases, can't help but appreciate this album
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IMO, a rather boring album whose success was massively amplified because the historic circumnstances on the era it was born on.I don't like it's freezer-cold level production, pretty much the same problem that OES but I guess it's a stylistic preference of MK. That's not to say that the songs worked incredibly well live, but this is a common DS thing.
In my rank it would be lower tier DS, no doubts at all.
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IMO, a rather boring album whose success was massively amplified because the historic circumnstances on the era it was born on.I don't like it's freezer-cold level production, pretty much the same problem that OES but I guess it's a stylistic preference of MK. That's not to say that the songs worked incredibly well live, but this is a common DS thing.
In my rank it would be lower tier DS, no doubts at all.
I think that each DS album (studio ones) has their own flavor in terms of sound, stylish and production. However, most of them, i agree that have this "cold level production"
In my point of view, there are 2 DS albums that escapes from this "cold ambience". The first one and Making Movies (probably because these 2 have a less artistic decisions by MK).
But i understand that the 'message' that Mark wants to pass have a moderate intensity since the begining. Wich reflects on the production.
Based on that, BIA is a amazing album.
Ranked high.
- Dire Straits
- Love Over Gold
- Brothers In Arms
- Making Movies
- Communique
- On Every Street
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communiqe
dire straits
making movies
love over gold
brothers in arms
on every street
brothers in arms has a diffrent sound. not represent DS sound imho. without David and Pick or maybe Mark's choices DS never sounds like first 3 album again.
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...not represent DS sound imho
Based on that, DS over at 1980.
Which makes sense but it was never really a band, it was Mark's band.
Mark's solo career has much more a sense of band then the DS days.
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"Mark's solo career has much more a sense of band then the DS days"
Interesting thought.
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It is the album that gave him more fame, fans, money, recognition, critical acclaim than any other DS/solo one. It made DS and him “classic,” “all time great”, “household name” etc.
If the DS had disbanded before BIA, some, many, (most?) of us could pass hım by. No? Not that the previous albums are not good (they are) but we may not have given them the “chance” they deserve. A small question: Who among us knew the DS/MK before BIA? For whom they were the (most) favorite musicians? For the younger generation, I wonder, which DS album was the entry gate if not BIA?
Yes it sometimes sound a little over-produced maybe, and it lacks the rawness (and spontaneity?) of the first two albums. But so what? ıt's not.artificial, is it? Or done mainly with an eye to make money? I don't know anything about sound technology etc, but i can see it exploited the new tech possibilities, a new medium (CD), so it sounds different but do we prefer he made 5 more MMs?
I rank it a) a top 3 DS album (with DS and LOG, and Alchemy of course), b) among the solo albums only maybe GH and RD can approach it (them), c) in rock history only first 4 LZ albums, and 70s PF can rival it imho, d) fav song BIA, obviously e) least fav song One World, but after some hiatus (?) I’ve listened it recently and think it’s better than almost anything from the recent album, f) most underrated song TMTS/RAR g) what makes it beautiful, important, unique etc? Difficult question. So many moments, passages that correspond to parts of my brain or soul or whatever. Though it may seem to me that way because my mind shaped by it after so much time with it . So maybe it’s the egg chicken thing. h) How to recommend it to a youngster? ”(One of) the most complete/accomplished (?) album(s) from the best rock musician ever! it will open you a lot of doors, follow them and you’ll thank me long after i’m gone”
One last thing: Imagine there was no MK in your life, you’ve never heard him, do not know him. Imagine he’s just a name for you at most. Well perhaps for half of us this may be the case without BIA. So hug it, kiss it, caress it if only for that reason
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"Mark's solo career has much more a sense of band then the DS days"
Interesting thought.
Can't really argue with that, but does it really matter? Apart from Mark, John was the only original member come the end during the Straits days. With the solo career we had Richard, Guy and Glenn with a lot fewer in/outgoings.
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I read the meaning of what Rolo wrote differently. In the days of the DS BAND Mark was at the forefront and "in charge" Whereas in his solo career this has changed somewhat.
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I read the meaning of what Rolo wrote differently. In the days of the DS BAND Mark was at the forefront and "in charge" Whereas in his solo career this has changed somewhat.
Yes, that's true, surprisingly! Right from the start of his solo career he has relied much more on the band, and they seem to be a much tighter unit, Richard, Guy, Glenn and Jim as the core band and all the others have just blended in over the years. They obviously all got on pretty well from the start, and they're all awesome players, so he can relax a bit more, give them more room for creativity.
With DS, and a lot of other bands, I've always had the feeling that players were somehow "competing" for solos, but with this band, that's never the case, they just play together. Of course, MK is still in charge, but maybe he doesn't feel that he needs to control things, because they just happen naturally.
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I read the meaning of what Rolo wrote differently. In the days of the DS BAND Mark was at the forefront and "in charge" Whereas in his solo career this has changed somewhat.
Yes, that's true, surprisingly! Right from the start of his solo career he has relied much more on the band, and they seem to be a much tighter unit, Richard, Guy, Glenn and Jim as the core band and all the others have just blended in over the years. They obviously all got on pretty well from the start, and they're all awesome players, so he can relax a bit more, give them more room for creativity.
With DS, and a lot of other bands, I've always had the feeling that players were somehow "competing" for solos, but with this band, that's never the case, they just play together. Of course, MK is still in charge, but maybe he doesn't feel that he needs to control things, because they just happen naturally.
Exactly!
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I read the meaning of what Rolo wrote differently. In the days of the DS BAND Mark was at the forefront and "in charge" Whereas in his solo career this has changed somewhat.
Yes. Exacly about it.
thx
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BIA is in my book the best DS album ever. Its beyond a classic, its a masterprice. Like Jackson had his Thriller, Springsteen his Born In.... MK has his BIA.
Soundtrack of my youth.
Brothers from Mandela is still the most iconic performance ever.
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BIA gets a bit of a hard time in my eyes. Its slated and derided by many because of its huge success and the Yuppie demographic it became associated with.
When I listen to the album I hear innovation. I hear a band using cutting edge technology to stretch themselves. I hear an album which exists sonically completely in a place of its own, try and find an album that sounds anything like BIA.
Is is perfect - Far from.
Is it the best DS album - Probably not, LOG and MM are 'epics'.
But it does deserve evaluation based purely on its own merits not the cultural phenomenon it became.
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BIA- Best DS record? No
BIA- Best DS song? definately
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…For the younger generation, I wonder, which DS album was the entry gate if not BIA?…
For me, OES is THE Dire Straits sound with songs like WICTY, PONO, HF, IH. With 38 years old I might be one of the younger generations. The only DS album release in my life was OES. BIA is a nice album and an important landmark in music history with great songs, but it also sounds a bit flat to me, like most of the albums produced in the 80’s. It’s a little bit too much polished and OES is a little raw in contrast to the 80’s stuff. That’s also why I hardly play the BIA album. The only album I play even less is MM. Live recordings of TOL are way better imo.
My raking would be:
On every street
Communique
Love over gold
Brothers in arms
Dire straits
Making movies
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Not a fan of the production, but the album itself has that feel where you just know it will be huge because the songs themselves are great - together, and in most cases on their own, too. It's easy to understand why it because the hit it was.
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A great album, a rock classic. Very simple, clear and sparse production. Maybe the least dated DS album. (I thought it was dated in the 90’s, with grunge and all, but not anymore.) A bit experimental, world music inspired. I love the synths. Very MK, very little DS. The drums are a bit dull on the first thee songs. They miss Pick!
The album is two EPs really. Side A is about walks of life and could be called that. Side B is more about war and could be called Brothers in Arms.
Favourite song: BIA. Coolest song (ever): MfN. Only skipper: One World.
Maybe the second or third best DS album (after DS and LOG.)
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When I first heard the album on it's release at the age of 5 it blew me away. My Father had an exceptional sound system at the time. Technics record player with phenomenal speakers and amp. My father kept his records in immaculate condition, often purchasing Japanese versions of his favourite albums... Led Zep's Physical Graffiti & Led Zep II, Dire Straits self titled and Love Over Gold, Pink Floyd's The Wall... a few records by The Police just to name a few...
So I was quite spoilt in terms of soundscape. Rarely did I hear a scratched record. Of course BIA is an extremely polished album, however over time I personally feel it hasn't aged as well as some of the other albums. I read many many years ago about the Terry Williams situation which made perfect sense to me...with the exception of the MFN intro the drums sounded extremely polished but hardly no thrills (that's not to say Omar was a bad player, he is an exceptional drummer / session musician but Neil Dorfsmann obviously wanted him for a reason - sometimes it's about the feel of a song and he obviously had that feel... as well as the difficulty to playing with a click track) and even at the age of 6 or 7, a few years having listened to the album hundreds of times I 95% knew that the bass on certain tracks wasn't John. I had a feeling. The style was completely different for example on One World. Slap bass Duran Duran Hungry Like A wolf-esque. Fast forward to just a few years ago and sources proved me correct. (Similar thing to Def Leppard's Pyromania to my ears as a teenager sounding like the Drums were programmed, and ironically even though this was before Rick Allen's accident it was proved to be the case. The biggest twist obviously after losing an arm and even though the drum sound on the following two albums sounded processed and programmed Rick did indeed play on those tracks - adopting a kit - fair play to him, superb!)
There are some extremely strong tracks on the BIA album. Whilst Money For Nothing and So Far Away were my favourites as a kid (along with One World strangely) the best tracks on the album by far are Ride Across The River & The Man''s Too Strong, a track i've covered when playing my own shows with my originals solo project The Elegant Chasers! Probably one of the lowest selling artists of all time, as opposed to Dire Straits who were one of the best selling artists of all time... :lol That's why I have two other (properly paid) jobs! Ah well....
Anyway I would rank BIA at number 4... and probably a rating of 7.5/10, probably 9/10 when I was a kid!
Love Over Gold
Tunnel Of Love
Dire Straits
Brothers In Arms
Communique
On Every Street
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"... even at the age of 6 or 7, a few years having listened to the
album hundreds of times I 95% knew that the bass on certain tracks wasn't John. I had a feeling."
I sometimes tell people that I was reading the Economist when i was 11,
and many are suprised. And it was not even true, it was Time and Newsweek,
and the age was, 13. But this is just another level. Respect
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is it really 39 years, where did time go?
Totally unrelated, and totally unimportant: You say "Where did time go?", Stratmad, while Mark sings (on Two Pairs of Hands) "Where did the time go?» I'm not a native speaker, so I'm wondering what's more common?
Regarding Brothers in Arms, not my favorite Dire Straits album. But that's nothing to do with the songs (they're as great a anything), rather with the sterile 80s production.
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Yes it's a common phrase in English.
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Yes it's a common phrase in English.
I know, but my question was whether it's common to say just "time" or "the time". Yes, we're getting into details now. ;)
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Ah sorry, the correct saying in English would be "where did THE time go" :)
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my ranking:
Making movies
On every street
Communique
Love over gold
Brothers in arms
Dire straits
but that is just the taste of the day.
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Ah sorry, the correct saying in English would be "where did THE time go" :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkOB57UcYk8
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Ah sorry, the correct saying in English would be "where did THE time go" :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkOB57UcYk8
I love Josh Turner's cover :
https://youtu.be/Vq2eqxNxtxg